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The detection of miniature black holes by the Large Hadron Collider could prove the existence of parallel universes and show that the Big Bang did not happen, scientists believe.
Wait, what?
It's all Quantum, don'tchaknow! 😀
Elephants all the way down?
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. - Douglas Adams
*dons saucepan hat*
Needs more Penny.
Needs more Penny.
If the big bang never happened then Penny never happens :_(
Universe?
Pff, bloody conspiracy theories!!
Next thing you know some clever bugger will come up with a [url= http://www.nature.com/news/simulations-back-up-theory-that-universe-is-a-hologram-1.14328 ]simulation that suggests the universe is just a holographic projection[/url]
Quantum stuff is all weird, I find it disturbing that we run at a quantum level.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/26/youre-powered-by-quantum-mechanics-biology
Quawtumn Mechanicals and black bowels my arse. Everyone knows the universe was sneezed out of the nose of the [url= http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Green_Arkleseizure ]Great Green Arkleseizure[/url]
This is all far too confusing and hard for my puny human brain.
Can't we just say that a big god did it and ran away?
Dark energy.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05n8jqs ]Physics is broken[/url].
there's more theories than theoretical physicists.
*dons saucepan hat*
*Smacks the top with a wooden mallet*
Fed up with headlines on the LHC, they're always over-exciting - and then boil down to - "we will know about something in 2024".
Remember the higgs-boson, that got completely out of hand and then the damn thing was shut off for nearly a year and it sort of went quiet with lots of "sure, maybe consistent with" - then more shut downs and promise of something in 2015. And then a few more years after that we will know for sure.
Dunno if it's CERN's PR getting excited or general coffee table physics via the press.
Quantum stuff is all weird, I find it disturbing that we run at a quantum level.
Speak for yourself, I can just about manage a fast walk.
Is there any practical use for any of this though?
I should point out my entire knowledge of physics over-and-above GCSE level is entirely based on watching Penny in a myriad of tight clothing and the odd thing sneaking into my brain when I wasn't taking notice, but they say it's the search of the origins of the universe, and with that we might just understand the meaning of life (which we won't because we already know it).
Sometimes they say, "oh well, if we understand how space was created we might be able to use wormholes / blackholes or arseholes to travel faster than light, or at least huge great distances through space within our lifetime and perhaps find other life forms" Well I'm sorry, but they're talking out of their arse - they simply taken the best bits of science fiction and sold the idea that some if it might just be possible, if only some mug gives them a gazillion pounds to find out - you've heard of the "inconvenient truth" well wormholes and such are the "convenient bullshit".
Understanding this sort of thing is what will eventually lead to hover boards and the like. That's cool. That's good enough for me 😉
Is there any practical use for any of this though?
We only know what a very small percentage of "stuff" is made from. And we've got pretty far with that knowledge, to the point where we can manipulate and build things at an atomic level which allows us to create new materials with interesting properties.
Surely finding out what the vast majority of "stuff" is made from might also be practically useful in some way?
Well that article referred to the Higgs Boson as the "God Particle" so I wan't expecting much from it.
Slightly better explanation of Rainbow Gravity [url= http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rainbow-gravity-universe-beginning/ ]here[/url]
It is at least testable either be creating micro black holes in the LHC or by finding a gamma ray burst and measuring the frequency of the gamma rays
Tortoises all the way down!
Fred Hoyle first used the term Big Bang as a derogatory term, he was a proponent of a steady state Universe maybe boosted by black hole/white hole stuff.
Is there any practical use for any of this though?
No of course not. In the same way quantum physics hasn't impacted on your abililty to post on this forum.
Besides, what exactly is WRONG with acquiring knowledge for its own sake?
No of course not. In the same way quantum physics hasn't impacted on your abililty to post on this forum.
Well, you say that but it's helped provide the computers, etc we're all using.
What I fail to grasp with this stuff is the existential bit. We only think reality exists because we experience it through our senses and interpret it with a combination of our intelligence and collective and personal recollections. But these are just electrical impulses in our brains. Who's to say they can be trusted?
I always quite liked the theory that reality is some sort of simulation. Doesn't answer who created it though.
Fred Hoyle first used the term Big Bang as a derogatory term, he was a proponent of a steady state Universe maybe boosted by black hole/white hole stuff.
The thing is there is pretty decent evidence for the Big Bang.
The Big Bang Inflationary model predict lots of stuff that we have observed like the Cosmic Microwave Background and it even predicts dark matter in the ratio observed through gravitational angular momentum (although doesn't propose what it is)
So although it leaves it lot of stuff unanswered like how exactly a singularity would work, its the best model we have
Well, you say that but it's helped provide the computers, etc we're all using.
ironing detector not working today?
Is there any practical use for any of this though?
If everyone thought like that, we would still be running around in the woods, pissing and barking and clubbing small furry animals over the head.
Stupid to think every started with a bang. Time is irrelevant, thus a beginning is illogical
What I fail to grasp with this stuff is the existential bit. We only think reality exists because we experience it through our senses and interpret it with a combination of our intelligence and collective and personal recollections. But these are just electrical impulses in our brains. Who's to say they can be trusted?
That's called "post modernism" there is no objective reality everything is a construct of our minds
I invite any post modernists to "test" the objective reality of gravity by leaving my office via the window, which is six stories up, rather than the door.
Is there any practical use for any of this though?
On balance, I would rather our collective intelligence and effort be combined with the earth's resources to do this sort of stuff, as opposed to things like making designer handbags or selfie sticks.
{quote]ironing detector not working today?
Indeed.
I'm with dazh.
Up with this sort of thing.
I invite any post modernists to "test" the objective reality of gravity by leaving my office via the windows
If reality is a construct of our minds, why wouldn't it still be constrained by some simple rules? And what about dreams? Is what we experience in dreams, where these rules don't exist, any less valid than what we experience the rest of the time?
I also like the [url= http://www.nature.com/news/simulations-back-up-theory-that-universe-is-a-hologram-1.14328 ]holographic theory[/url].
What I fail to grasp with this stuff is the existential bit. We only think reality exists because we experience it through our senses and interpret it with a combination of our intelligence and collective and personal recollections. But these are just electrical impulses in our brains. Who's to say they can be trusted?I always quite liked the theory that reality is some sort of simulation. Doesn't answer who created it though.
The Matrix has you, Neo.
If the universe is constructed in your brain then you have to accept that you are a **** for constructing this particular universe, really.
Always comes down to "a difference that makes no difference is no difference", if you live in a construct that's sufficiently realistic that you can't tell it from reality, or is sufficiently well constructed that you're unable to spot the things that make it different from reality, then it doesn't matter. Because even if you took the pill and left the matrix... You could still be in the matrix.
The machine is broken again according to the beeb
Ming - I wondered if it's ever fully working, I mean something that large and complex must always be running with a few faults. Eg. How many of the Atlas detectors are on the blink at any one point.
Personally I love this sort of stuff, and the fact that there's stuff we've theorised to be present but also theorised to be virtually undetectable is a great time to be in. Though of course if higgs explains gravity then we're a step closer to hover boards, and that's pretty good too.
If reality is a construct of our minds, why wouldn't it still be constrained by some simple rules? And what about dreams? Is what we experience in dreams, where these rules don't exist, any less valid than what we experience the rest of the time?
Well, in a dream, when you get that falling sensation, followed by an abrupt jolt, you wake up, whereas in reality, that falling sensation is followed by you becoming geography.
There was a brilliant Horizon programme about dark matter, and the research into it last week.
There was a brilliant Horizon programme about dark matter, and the research into it last week.
There's even a link to it from the first page of this thread 🙂
The Horizon documentary was very good. I quite enjoyed the final mention of Dark Energy where it was admitted that they really don't even know where to start looking for a theory.
Life is more interesting when we don't have the answers
Yeah I thought the Horizon Doc was good too, especially when they disregarded most of what all the theories to date they've agreed on.
I'd like a job like that, thinking up stuff for 20 yrs then disregarding it, just like that.
Does make me wonder sometimes where and why we chuck all this money at trying to find out where we come from and what we're made up of.
Seems like a whole industry and universities are funded buy the words.. "but what if"
It does intrigue me, I find it all quite fascinating though.
Is there really some point to it?
Genuine question, feel free to try and explain..
they're talking out of their arse
How would you know that?
Is there really some point to it?
The more we know about everything, the more stuff we can do.
Quantum mechanics, nuclear physics - all pretty high brow, and yet with it we invented computers and associated telecommunications. Which you will agree have had a pretty significant impact on life.
Imagine if this research into the nature of reality results in faster-than-light wormhole travel. How amazing would that be?
You know what lasers were called when they were invented? A solution looking for a problem. And where would we be without them now? That's why scientific endeavour and discovery is important - it allows us to solve problems we don't yet have. Why bother finding out how electricity works? Why bother finding out how dna works? Why bother finding out how the universe works?
Yeah but... Specifically.. What's the point in finding if black holes exist or some particle that might not actually be there..?
Practice application to something here on Earth...
Just sayin like..
It does intrigue me, I find it all quite fascinating though.Is there really some point to it?
Well there you go. You find it fascinating. That's why people want to find out about stuff.
Yeah but... Specifically.. What's the point in finding if black holes exist or some particle that might not actually be there..?
Read what thepurist said about lasers.
It's building on knowledge, or verifying theories.
People come up with a theory that fits what we know, then they build stuff like this to verify the theory. If it gets verified, then that means we know how part of how the universe works.
Understanding mass, gravity and spacetime could lead us to be able to control it. And if we can do that, we can invent the warp drive, and I'd guess it would really help with nuclear fusion. That practical enough of an application for you?
Seems like a whole industry and universities are funded buy the words.. "but what if"
I refer you back to my comments about handbags and selfie sticks.
Universes are just projections from singularities of black holes. Well, that's my uniformed view, anyway.
Edit: This world would be quite a dull place if it wasn't for things like CERN and the people who dream up and run them.
I see my search for the correct 'tongue in cheek' style of writing continues.
I actually spoke to two people who work at CERN recently, the company we share an office with make very clever things that record temperatures in very hot places built some probes for them - I don't pretend to understand it, but it's fascinating.
I think there's just a wierdo physics geek sex dungeon down there, basically they naffed off with £xbillion quid and are all having a milky fleshed bespectacled orgy and occassionaly using a random word generator to come up with some unfathomable bollox that they feed to the press to keep us morons happy.
They DID blow the whole budget on a Physics geek wet dream.. but that is the accelerator 🙂
What I don't understand is- how do you build a detector for a particle that's never been detected? Some of them go through hundreds of feet of solid rock so you would think they'd just go straight through your detector too.
What they are looking for is the detectable decay particles of the un-seeable particle. From the decay products, speeds, trajectories etc they can then infer that they came from the new particle.
somewhatslightlydazed - Member
Is there any practical use for any of this though?
If everyone thought like that, we would still be running around in the woods, pissing and barking and clubbing small furry animals over the head.
We're mountain bikers. That's not too far off what we do.
Ming the Merciless - Member
What they are looking for is the detectable decay particles of the un-seeable particle. From the decay products, speeds, trajectories etc they can then infer that they came from the new particle.
My bonkers clever mate came up with a similar approach to data mining. She created a definition of random and then looked at the anomalies. She talked to me about the importance of dark web over 10 years ago. She took her ideas to a 'market research' company who took her to the states and gave her more money than she can spend.
So research does have definite benefits. We'll for her company's clients and her at least.
What they are looking for is the detectable decay particles of the un-seeable particle. From the decay products, speeds, trajectories etc they can then infer that they came from the new particle.
Oh.
Are we discussing the LHC or is this another MTBer not liking dogs thread?If everyone thought like that, we would still be running around in the woods, pissing and barking and clubbing small furry animals over the head.
When I was a kid I imagined that this Universe must be like a very small bubble in a cosmic bubblebath that transcended time. When i was a teenanger I painted a mural on my edroom wall to the effect, only now it was a faceless human holding an exploding bubble in his hand, as the universe behind him slipped into shards. Too many baths and Roger Dean album covers, I reckon 😯
^^ Respect. Especially for name dropping the Deanmeister.
This reminds me of the film Lucy where it says that time is the only way for matter/energy to express that they exist or something like that.
I find it amazing that matter is made of virtual nothing but it only because it is moving/vibrating so fast that it appears solid, on a programme the poured liquid nitrogen which was cooled as close to absolute zero onto a metel spoon and it just ran straight it like it wasn't there. Apparently is was because at extreme low temps the atoms stop moving and line up so can pass past the metal atoms.
I find it amazing that matter is made of virtual nothing but it only because it is moving/vibrating so fast that it appears solid
Not when you consider that's what 'solid' actually means.
Don't bother trying to relate everyday terms to anything on the quantum level. Just leave them all at the door - it's never going to work 🙂
I find it amazing that matter is made of virtual nothing but it only because it is moving/vibrating so fast that it appears solid
I'm not a physicist, but I don't think that's strictly correct. Isn't the 'solidness' a result of the mutual repulsive forces produced by the electrons in each atom? Anyone suitably qualified care to answer this?
Yes, that's more or less it. Not necessarily the electromagnetic force though.. not sure about that myself.
Yes its the electromagnetic force that makes things solid.
Atoms are mainly empty space.
If you were to scale a nucleus of an atom up to the size of a pea and place it in the middle of Wembley Stadium then the electrons would be oribiting* around the top of the stands
But the various electrical charge interacting with each other give the sensation of solidity
*I say orbiting actually they are just occupying a cloud of probability somewhere between the nucleus and infinity but they are most probably orbiting around row Z
What I don't understand is- how do you build a detector for a particle that's never been detected? Some of them go through hundreds of feet of solid rock so you would think they'd just go straight through your detector too.
Big tanks of liquid down at the bottom of salt mines, with detectors to detect the light emitted if they collide with an atom in the tank.
Yes its the electromagnetic force that makes things solid.
So what if you tried to touch something made of neutrons? Or dark matter?
So what if you tried to touch something made of neutrons? Or dark matter?
Whats made of just neutrons?
If Dark Matter is WIMPs (which is the leading theory) then we "touch" them all the time. But as the have no electrical charge they pass straight through us, just like the millions of neutrinos currently streaming through your eyeball right now.
Whats made of just neutrons?
Ummm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_matter#Neutron_degeneracy
Anyhow, if you tried to touch it, [url= http://io9.com/5805244/what-would-a-teaspoonful-of-neutron-star-do-to-you ]bad things[/url].
Haha, liked that link.
I don't think molgrips will be touching any neutron stars though!
Yeah but... Specifically.. What's the point in finding if black holes exist or some particle that might not actually be there..?Practice application to something here on Earth...
Just sayin like..
Again, the research into stuff like that, enables scientists and engineers to develop new tools and ways of getting the results they need, and in the process of developing those tools they discover new applications in everyday life.
See: lasers/Teflon/microprocessors/MRI scanners...
Just think of all of the applications that lasers are used for, when they were first created, as someone pointed out, they were 'a solution looking for a problem'.
I get that, sort of. I mean the only thing I can see that came out of finding out what Lasers are etc. is an Olympic single handed sailing dinghy, which happens to be cool.
Practical applications? How about "miniaturisation" as a random example.
I've got a hundred times more storage on my keyring than I had in my first PC (what, only 20 years ago?) at a hundredth of the cost. I've got more computing power in my pocket than [url= http://www.thedailycrate.com/2014/02/01/geek-tech-apollo-guidance-computer-vs-iphone-5s/ ]NASA had[/url] to land on the moon. And that's just the "simple" stuff, electricity and magnets. Who knows where Quantum Computing could go.
LASERs are a good example too, but what about the discovery of X-rays? Reckon people sat around going "well, what good's that ever going to be for?" Discovery of the EM spectrum has given us knowledge of radio, UV, infra-red, what use have they turned out to have? How about the discovery of bacteria?
Advancing science and understanding the universe doesn't have to be immediately "for" a given purpose. Once we understand it, that's when the really clever stuff happens. Then after that the magic starts to become so normal that we get blasé, and a decade later we'll all be sitting round on the Singletrackuniverse neural net complaining about the adverts and grumpily telling kids that they don't know how lucky they are because we didn't have teleporters when we were their age and had to get in "cars" and "drive" everywhere.
If science just stopped because we couldn't see an endgame, we'd still be believing in the supernatural and getting medical treatment from chiropractors and homeopaths.
Er, oh.
^ I am with geek on this.
I get that, sort of. I mean the only thing I can see that came out of finding out what Lasers are etc. is an Olympic single handed sailing dinghy, which happens to be cool.
Srsly? Fibre-optic broadband, CD/DVDS/BluRay players, LIDAR, precision sheet metal cutting, welding/soldering...
How do you think they all work?
Those are only the things I can think of off the top of my head. A mate is a goldsmith, he routinely uses a couple of lasers for soldering jewellery where heat transfer is an issue, like stone settings.
If science just stopped because we couldn't see an endgame, we'd still be believing in the supernatural and getting medical treatment from chiropractors and homeopaths.Er, oh.
😆
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