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I know it's not exactly scientific, and we rarely get as much snow as this in the UK, but this performance comparison test is interesting.
Yup... I've got an awd car now but that won't help when I get to the corner at the bottom of my road, so it's got a set of winter tyres waiting, dunlop snowbastards or something. The old mondeo had one last winter of glory, being ridiculously unstoppable on its wintercontacts, it's worth the price of admission just for the ultrasmugness you get towing a landrover up a hill
I put some part worn Continental Cross Contacts on my Vito before Christmas last year. It’s an extra long wheel base 3L V6 and eats tyres. I’ve driven to Austria 3 times on them, they were great in the snow there and didn’t tear up in Summer there either.
They’re still on now around 15000 miles later and still a decent amount of tread left.
Can’t recommend them enough.
Not just for snow. Low temperatures as well.
Avon winter somethingorothers on my A6 Quattro #peakstw had them on my bimmer last winter and it would go anywhere. Which is just as well seeing as I live at the top of a big **** off hill in eastern(ish) Scotland.
I'd buy tyres called
dunlop snowbastards
For the name alone if there were a model with that name. Wouldn't matter if they didn't even work. 🤣
I fitted Crossclimate plus all round to my A6 Quattro Estate last November. They have been great in all conditions and with about 18k mikes on them are about 60% worn so I reckon they’ll see me through to the spring. Surefooted and go anywhere unless the snow is too deep for the low front bumper.
Maxxis 3C EXOs here - ENDURO doesn’t have to stop with the bike
Putting my winter wheels on later this week. You have to in this part of Europe. But the difference was a revelation the first time I drove a car with winter tyres in the snow. You literally can drive how you usually drive in the dry.
Do winter tyres still allow you to 'have fun' in the snow or do they prevent sideways motion?
Winter tyres are as good as the tyres on the car in front of you 😉.
Always like this comparison vid tho, shows a real true idea of ice capability
"Winter tyres are as good as the tyres on the car in front of you 😉."
You mean the car behind..... I've often driven round the abandoned stuck car in front but if you stop quickly and the car behind is on summers.....it's crunch time.
Wife's cars got nokians wrd4s on spare steels - I've yet to move them over as it's only really just got cold enough here with minimum air temp being 9 last week locally.
My landy has bfg muds and the camper has bfg ATS both load rzted and with the snowflake and 3 peaks on rather than the cheaper harder ones made for sand/rock/hot countries
We run both our cars on winters - mine all year round as it doesn't do much mileage and wifes in summer only. I was amazed last year at the difference they made in really nasty conditions. Our Octavia was amazing in that heavy snow and ice, we managed to do a school pickup involving a lot of slalom driving around stuck people, we live on a narrow nasty, ungritted hill with a steep driveway and you could drive in and out no worries. Getting down the hill was still a bit interesting but not too bad.
My RS4 on the other hand runs on winters and while not exactly nimble is 'less scary'
Good video that.
Last winter we visited, in the 4 motion T5 with winter tires, mum and dad in Gourock (they live at the top of the hill). Very hilly place, lots of steep roads, corners etc.
Snowed a shit load one night, I had to take the missus to the train station (at the bottom of the hill). It really brought home the massive difference winter tires make - there were other 4x4s all over the shop, esp coming down slidey hills, or trying to navigate tight uphill hairpin bends and getting nowhere. As per NZcol, I just slalomed around them, stopped, reversed, uphill started etc all with no drama. Awesome.
Winter tires rule (and surely add no extra cost over lifetime of 2 sets of tires as opposed to 1)
As an unrepentant tyre nerd, I love threads like this.
I would love even more, though, to see the same tests done in low temperature wet weather instead of just snow, in order to dispel the idea that WINTER tyres equal SNOW tyres.
Ultimately, it's as much about temperature as about the type of precipitation.
Nokians here. But then, we need them.
It amuses me when people consider themselves to be such good drivers as to not to need them, and then are probably great fans of motorsport where races are won and lost because the teams used the wrong compound tyres for the conditions.
I got a set of Avon IceTourings on steel wheels for £40 off ebay. Seemed prudent as I've got to work in Manchester all winter.
First impressions, they're flippin noisy on the motorway compared to the Goodyear Efficient Grips they replaced.
and then are probably great fans of motorsport where races are won and lost because the teams used the wrong compound tyres for the conditions.
Bit of an own goal there, drive according to the conditions, you lose a race by a few seconds because you had to drive the car to the limit of the tyres you had. Just as possible to do that on the road. It's only a better outcome / tyre in the narrow band between crashing on summer tyres and crashing on winter tyres. Do something stupid enough and you crash regardless, drive sensibly enough and you don't crash at all. A bit like ABS or traction control, it's only useful if you end up in a situation where you have to stamp on either pedal hard enough,
crossclimates on my old A3 quattro were pretty good. picked them up in a amazon flash deal that worked out at less than £60 a tyre.
yokahama geolandars all-weathers that came on my subaru so we'll see how they work out over the next couple of months.
I can buy 18” cross climates for £133 per wheel or 16” steel wheels and midrange winter tyres for £133 per wheel.
Which should I choose and why?
Storage is not a problem.
Given the choice, I'd choose the steel 16" option. If you do kerb a tyre in poor conditions you don't damage your expensive alloys. You don't risk damaging the tyres and alloys on each swap spring and Winter. Also they are likely to be more comfortable. I did this on my last car and If I had had the option on my current car I would have done so but you can't get steel wheels to fit it in the UK.
People say the steels don't look good, but I couldn't care less. Decent wheel covers would fool most people
If you're down to 3mm or so on your Summer tyres anyway I'd be inclined to just replace those with an all-season on your alloys and run them all year. No necessarily Cross Climates though, and it depends a bit on where you live and whether you often drive anywhere properly wintry. That'd save the twice yearly faff of swapping over wheels, or paying to get the tyres changed.
If you'd be wasting a good bit tread on the 18"s I'd get the steels and a set of Winters and just accept the minor swap over faffage. Might also be a better option if you're an enthusiastic sort of driver who could tell the difference between an all-season and a Summer - I can't really.
I can't decide what to do myself - we had an A6 Quattro which was only okay in the snow on the standard tyres (granted, they were very low profile and very wide). However we now have an XC60 and it coped really very well in the snow early this year - in a controlled test I really struggled to make it lose grip for more than a brief moment. So basically I can't decide it it is worth the hassle of swapping to winter tyres (the current ones are only half worn) as we don't have a great deal of storage.
Totally agree with jimw for all the same reasons, alloys will get trashed and bigger volume of tyres will perform better.
Just check you can definitely fit smaller steel wheels on the car, you might not get them over the brake disks.
My XC60 is up for new tyres, probably before the end of the year. It'll need all four doing so it's a good time to think about sticking some all-seasons on. I've done the whole winter/summer tyre thing before (and still do on my wife's Megane), but would rather not do it this time around. Not least, because it would mean buying 8 new tyres and this falls well and truly into the "I could buy a bike for that!" category.
There is a challenge however. For reasons best understood to the person that bought my car originally, it has 20" alloys, so I need some 255/45 R20 all-season tyres and this seems to really limit options because it seems that noone else is stupid enough to run 20" alloys on a 4x4 in the winter 🙂
I've been quoted £200 a corner for Pirelli Scorpion Zeros, but a colleague has suggested that they will suck in winter conditions. He recommended Michelin Crossclimate SUV which are excellent by all accounts...and £250 each!
So, STW - what should I buy?
4x4 and Dunlop winter sport tyres with 500 bhp. I like driving in winter 😀
Jag Xf estate here - 300bhp and rear wheel drive but goes like a dream on Dunlop winter sport 3ds - my only regret is it runs on 20 inch wheels and I bought spare 20 inch alloys for my winters - really wish I’d gone with smaller wheels as very vulnerable to kerb damage... also 20 inch winter tyres are effing expensive!
So, STW – what should I buy?
Spare 18" rims and winters.
I'm hanging out for a set of 16" Volvo/Ford/Mazda wheels and a set of mid range winters. It's same cost as winters on current 17" rims...
Oh, and on the mid range cost cutting option, don't. I did a load of googling and found some real world testing of fuel economy with various winter tyres. They were all poor compared to summer tyres, especially once at motorway speeds but the cheaper ones were really bad. Even going from a C rating to B will usually more than pay for itself over the life of the tyre, D/E is just like setting fire to scottish fivers as you drive up the A9.
Keep an eye on ebay, loads of decent sets of wheels with 6mm of tread on them when people have sold the car they were used with after a couple of winter. Just avoid the nasty budget ditchfinders.
I’ve been quoted £200 a corner for Pirelli Scorpion Zeros, but a colleague has suggested that they will suck in winter conditions.
I've just bought a Disco 4 with brand new Scorpion Zero's on. I enquired on a Disco forum where the stock answer to most bad weather tyres, seems to be Duratracs, but then I was also told to leave the Scorpions on - they'll be fine.
I'll report back in a few weeks
Since my summer tyres are E rating ( original fit Bridgestones) and the winters are C rating (Conti) I can't say I noticed any significant difference in economy over last winter.
6mm winter tires are half worn.
Come with 8.
Effectiveness in the wet (sipes gone) at 4
They would have to be very cheap
I got 4 brand new 15inch nokians fitted for 240 quid.
£60 off set of 4 tyres at Costco at moment. 4x 225x17 Michelin cross climate for our V70 were ~£360.
No idea what my last set of winter tyres were but they were bloody brilliant!
Rusty - is that fitted ? Do you need a Costco account?
Separate smaller steel rims for winter tyres is what I did, for no more money than replacing the lower profile tyres alone. About 4 winters and 1 summer, at least 2 tyres replaced and a couple of dings later and I don't really see any disadvantage (storage not a problem for me), plus now I think about it they'll have saved me a bit of money when I replaced the tyres.
So, STW – what should I buy?
Spare 18″ rims and winters.
I’m hanging out for a set of 16″ Volvo/Ford/Mazda wheels and a set of mid range winters. It’s same cost as winters on current 17″ rims…
Thanks, but I did mention that I no longer wanted dedicated winter tyres.
The problem with this solution is that it means I'll have to buy a set of 4 x steel + winters (probably £600-ish even for cheaper-spec tyres) *plus* a new set of summers (for decent rubber, going to be nearly the same again) *and* then I'll have to faff swapping wheels twice a year and storing them too.
6mm winter tires are half worn.
Come with 8.
Effectiveness in the wet (sipes gone) at 4
They would have to be very cheap
Like I said, £40, the rims would have cost more new!
The sipes are for very low friction surfaces (i.e. ice) they arent big enough to move water like the main grooves. So in countries that enforce a 4mm limit that only applies in Winter, you're allowed to run them in the summer down to the normal limit.
Was considering a set of winters for my 3-day a week commute over the Cotswolds, then invitation to morzine for new year sealed the deal. Mate sorted me out with some 16" alloys + Pirelli winters for a decent price and fitted 10 days ago.
Going from low profile 18" to higher profile 16" makes an immense improvement to the ride over pock marked roads (I must be getting old).
Picked up a 10mm bolt in rear inside yesterday 1mile from work and too big for a plug repair - could have cried.
We drove to sking last year as the flight cost was stupid. Even after buying a set of wheels and winter tyres it was still less than the cost of one flight. Was very glad to have bought them with the amount of snow that can down, especially on the drive back. Would have been horrible on summer tyres. I went for the steel look. Black steelies on a black estate 👍.
"The sipes are for very low friction surfaces (i.e. ice) they arent big enough to move water like the main grooves."
By ice - you mean the thin layer of water on the top of ice that makes it slippy ?
At 40 quid you cant moan especially for daaan south .
The sipes are for very low friction surfaces (i.e. ice) they arent big enough to move water like the main grooves. So in countries that enforce a 4mm limit that only applies in Winter, you’re allowed to run them in the summer down to the normal limit.
Wot he said. All the Winter tyres I've seen have had 2 sets of wear bars, the first one is when you lose the sipes and the full benefit of the "Winter" designation. After that you'll still have a more flexible compound that'll work better in low temperatures so still worth running rather than Summers for the UK unless you're likely to need to drive on ungritted snow and ice.
Matt ..yes you will need a Costco account ..add £26.00 for that
The "winter tyre debate" is done and dusted as far as I'm concerned. I used CrossClimates all year round on my reasonably powerful FWD hatch. I'd not used dedicated summer tyres on it for probably 3+ years.
Their ability to drive in snow is a bonus, but for me living in the wet West of Scotland its how good they are in the wet. Traction out of junctions is so much better than summer rubber
I've just bought a Focus ST and on summer tyres you had to s q u e e z e the throttle coming out of junctions you were constantly managing slip at low speed in the wet. There was noticeable tourque steer under acceleration too as the front tyres hunted for traction. I fitted Crossclimates again and its much more manageable, loads more traction coming out of junctions and just all-round better road manners in the wet. They are quiet too and on the last car at least lasted really well.
Gone for cross climates on the wife's car and impressed so far. This was after running her winters to death through this summer (not ideal but only used for local pootling) as after 3 years of seasonal swapping the winters weren't good enough for another winter and the summers were gone.
RichMTB - I'd have thought you'd be feathering the throttle out of junctions in a ST anyway, in an effort to try and get double figure mpg ;->
I dunno what to do.. Cross climates £570 on my alloy wheels, or I buy a set of steelies with Conti Winters for £552 (or £660 for a better set of steelies)... i don't have loads of space but could fit them in the garage, and have two newish 'economy' tyres that came on the car.. Ahh if only it was clear cut or I had a bigger garage & then I've seen snow here today, so I'm not panicing really I'm not...
Matt_outandabout, yes you do need a Costco account for that.
No real issue though, I have an account andlive in Central Scotland so if you wanted to meet up it wouldn't be a hassle.
Let me know!
I'm sure mine saved me this morning. It was about 3 degrees on the way to work and an L200 pulled out of a lane in front of me. I don't think I would have stopped in time with my summer tyres fitted.
RustyNP - have you got your Volvo V70 on steel wheels? I'm looking to get a set for my 2015 V60 D4, but I cannot find anywhere that will assure me that 162 steel wheels of the correct bolt configuration will actually fit my car (other than the bolt holes being in the right place)
After years of shall we shan't we put Crossclimates on our C4 Grand Picasso last month ready for the winter. Thought they gripped better in the wet from the drives I've had. Got admitted back into hospital last week for an infection in my foot after the operation. Came out on Monday night to find out we have swapped the car so it's back to square one for us at least for this winter.
I’ve just put cross climates on the Amarok truck (£630 inc. vat for 4), im SW based so there’s little ice, but being 1000 ft above sea level (and i can see the sea 20 miles away) means a surprising number of snow days. So far they are a damn site better than the Bridgestone duelers that came off in wet and dry, I’ll be trying on muddy fields over the weekend. I suspect they’ll work fine in the snow and mud and apparently are better mpg wise and quieter too but as it’s been all B road work so far, I don’t know whether that’s true. I know they won’t work as well as pure winters in the alps for example, but feel ill have the best comprimise for the other 49 weeks of the year’ plus I always take chains to the real mountains anyway!
oh, and my wife’s Touareg on BF Goodrich urban terrains (their very road biased winter tyre)was unstoppable last winter - and we ran them all summer to be able to pull trailers out of fields without any significant wear despite the constant high temps.
I'm in a forced hand situation, two tyres needing done and one getting close. Ford again.
Difference in price between 17" for the alloys or 16" isn't enough to justify going for steel especially as I'm debating getting another car.
I can't believe no-one has come on here and said you don't need winters just a self righteous sense of invincibility, and best of all "it doesn't snow enough in this country" excuse. Bless them.
Don't forget, NEVER EVER help someone in the snow if they don't have winters fitted.
I have some premium Conti summer tyres and some Michelin Alpin 4 winters on a spare set of standard alloys that I picked up cheap. The difference in low temperatures and in lousy conditions is astonishing. I've been too busy to change the summers over to the winters so far this year, and boy do the summers feel sketchy. It isn't even proper winter yet.
I get an average of 45mpg on the summers and an average of 45mpg on the winters BTW.
I've been very impressed with the Alpins, but I do wonder about just sticking some crossclimates or something on next. Our mileage isn't sky high.
Hey Quattro owners, Crossclimates sound really good, I have an A4 Avant Quattro Diesel 3.0 and it wears the outer strip on the front long before the rest of the tyre is done, I'm pretty sure the tracking is OK and this is a heavy engine "feature"
- so - does the front outer edge on the crossclimates scrub worse than "standard" tyres with quite solid edges like Pilot4?
For now, I'd be putting just 2 on so "standard" advice would be to put those on the back.
moved this to a new thread "Michelin CrossClimate on 06 3.0 TD quattro A4"
Serendipitous circumstances this morning.
Drove in to a garage to get the full set of CrossClimates fitted that I ordered from Blackcircles on Friday.
By the time I left an hour later, an inch of snow had fallen, the first of the winter in these parts.
CrossClimates were being used to their full potential here this morning too ! Interestingly, they only have about 4mm tread left I think and seem almost as good as last year when they were much newer. They’ll be getting replaced with same from BlackCircles in a few months..