Ceiling fans withou...
 

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Ceiling fans without ground

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so, after a crap night's sleep I opted to go and grab a couple of ceiling ans for my boy and I

and on the way home I suddenly was suspicious that i had bought metal bodied fans, and was pretty sure my lighting circuits were ungrounded

I just checked... 2 wires in the roses

Electrically knowledgeable, please chime in

options.

  1. wire the fans and forgo the ground.. NOPE that's a negative I will not be doing that, no explanation necessary

2. find fans that don't require grounds, I'm guessing there are plastic bodied fans out there which are safe without a ground, but i guess the additional protection for the motor wold be welcomed? regardless, it's hard to find  if a ground is needed until you  open the box, and most houses have had their wiring updated in the past 30 years with a ground

3. run a ground to the roses effected, maybe not so hard as i have easy access to the loft. Not sure how wise this is, or where to run it to? i do have access to the ground on my shower supply near by but I do not know if its wise to pick up on the ground from a different breaker, or if i can pick up on a ground from somewhere else. it wouldn't be massively difficult to drop down from the loft via the airing cupboard to the understairs (direct line) and ground to something there...

4. have a sparky put new lighting circuits in which is due, but probably not a cheap hobby, i appreciate the safety aspect of a grounded lighting ring but everything on it is isolated anyway from harm. 3 bed 1960's semi, consumer unit is all recentish


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 4:43 pm
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Just two wires in the roses, blimey. Lots of lights do come with just the two wires, but I've the ring main in my roses and earth.


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 4:57 pm
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Not uncommon.  There are various ways of doing lighting circuits.  No earth is needed to a bog standard ceiling rose as they are double insulated.  the two wires however will be a switched live and a neutral so no permanent live so the fans would only work if the light is on as well.

Have you had a look in the attic?  there are probably junction boxes for each light with the permanent live and the earth in them


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 5:21 pm
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yer, not worried about having to leave the switch on, the fans are remote controlled anyway

i really doubt there is any earths in the lighting at all.. a long time ago i bought plastic screws to replace the metal switch plate screws just to completely alleviate the need for rewiring (was my parents house)

right now i'm just thinking about  returning the fans and grabbing a couple of standing air coolers


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 5:31 pm
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I've bought a couple of standing air coolers (the ones with water tanks) should be more effective than a ceiling an

this can wait for another time.. i don't fancy trying to run wiring in this weather 😀


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 5:46 pm
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wire the fans and forgo the ground.. NOPE that’s a negative I will not be doing that, no explanation necessary

Surely the ceiling fan will be mounted high enough so it can't be easily touched as for safety you definitely don't want to have any risk of being hit by fan blades that are big enough to do a decent job of cooling without being loud.


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 6:17 pm
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Is it double insulated?

The image of a square within a square on it or the box


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 6:21 pm
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Yeah second the above, "metal" hair dryers and all sorts are double insulated.


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 9:44 pm
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I couldn't tell from the box, i don't think...first thing i did was go to the wiring and at that point had a rethink

and would certainly be able to reach up and touch it, its just not worth it...  free standing cooler should be a better solution anyway


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 10:12 pm
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Often if you use websites like Screwfix or go and find the manufacturers website, you will find the spec and/or installation manual as a PDF.


 
Posted : 11/06/2023 11:23 pm
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the ones with water tanks

you can add your own water to the fan you have.


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 5:16 am
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pick up on the ground from a different breaker,

Don't think that's how ground works.


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 5:30 am
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I think you're right, I think there's a ground bus bar on the consumer unit which everything goes to


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 7:15 am
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So why do you want to earth or ground the fan? What are you trying to achieve?


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 8:41 am
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it says to earth/ground the fan.. that's what's on the paperwork, and I would imagine that as its a metal body that it's for safety,  So I won't second guess it.


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 9:24 am
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Because they're presumably unsure whether it's double insulated and if not would want it earthed. Seems reasonable enough but by the sound of it is moot as they have no room for a fan anyway.


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 9:29 am
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yer it's moot, going back 🙂 was a nice idea

would have been better off with a low profile plastic ceiling fan in hindsight, the floor standing cooler should be enough

I might consider chucking some suitable wiring in in the future and get a sparky to connect it all up


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 9:33 am
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Grounding = American.

Earthing = British.

So why do you want to earth or ground the fan? What are you trying to achieve?

I appreciate you're taking it back, but I'm slightly troubled by some of the insinuations here that Class 1 (ie not double-insulated) equipment doesn't need earthing. It absolutely does, especially something that vibrates such as a ceiling fan, where connections can, and do, shake loose.

It was common several decades back to wire lighting circuits without earth conductors as, post-war, copper was expensive and in short supply (that's why 2.5mm ring circuits were developed), and every light and switch was deemed to be non-conducting, often bakelite or similar, and therefore not an 'exposed conductive part'.

If a piece of electrical equipment has an earth terminal, that's not optional - use it. And no, it doesn't matter if your circuits have an rcd or rcbo, that's not an alternative to an earth conductor (that's why loop impedance tests are undertaken on circuits irrespective of the protective device).

IAAE.


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 10:01 am
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aah, i didn't realise it was  an American/British thing.. i use ground/earth interchangeably.. not sure if correct to do so


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 10:21 am
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So did the fans have an earth terminal on them?


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 1:27 pm
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Yup. That was the point 😀 they required earthing/grounding


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 1:33 pm
 5lab
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i'd switch fan, and also get some DC fans whilst you're at it. I got one from ali express (probably not within your timelines) and its bloody lovely, completely silent and pushes a huge amount of air. the transformer thingy doesn't take an earth and everything else is low-ish voltage dc


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 2:22 pm
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aaah that was what i was wondering...it was originally the chinese amazon DC fans i was looking

NVM


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 3:05 pm
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Ah if it has an earth terminal then it’s not double insulated. So yes will need to be earthed.  Usually lighting circuits are wired in twin and earth. No bare earths lurking about in your ceiling rose then I take it.


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 3:14 pm
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nope, no bare earths

and i remember it being in conversation, plus the wire looks old itself


 
Posted : 12/06/2023 3:36 pm

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