Are a lot of highways 'designers' failing under their Construction Design and Management obigations if they dont incorporate cycle specific safety measures, (thinking priority turning at junctions and lanes separated by a solid 'kerb' and not a white line, etc.)into their designs ?
Obviously there are going to be circumsatances where it is just not practicable, but if a 'new housing estate' road or link road is being built, its hard to see this couldn't / shopuldn't be done.
Opinions from people more knowledgable in CDM than me would be appreciated.
Cheers
not a CDM issue in my opinion
not a CDM issue in my opinion
+1. While the designer [i]should[/i] consider the needs of cyclists (& all other NMUs) there is no obligation to provide facilites. DMRB is the bible.
I agree there is no 'obligation', if it can be demonstrated the risk is negligable / impossible to address. - I cant imagine this could be demonstrated in lots of situations.
DMRB is indeed a design manual and must be used in conjunction with a designers obligations under CDM - Bit like the Building Regulations
One could argue that the (lack of) design leads to death or injury of a user group which is foreseeable.
Consider the following, cycle track that leads to a round about then finish leaving the vulnerable road user having to face the most hazardous section of the road without the protection of a cycle track.
If you out it in the context of a building and a wheelchair bound person, it would be like building ramps at the entrance, exits and toilets but not putting in any alarms in the toilets or putting the door handle for the toilets out of reach.
Cost is not an excuses for not providing for a user group under almost all health and safety legislation.
If you could prove that the scenario was avoidable and foreseeable then there would be cause for civil action based on non compliance CDM.
Only if it was reasonably practicable.
Do the CDM regs not apply only to the construction phase of the build?
Zeffir must work in a design office
What does that middle letter in CDM stand for?
zeffir - MemberDo the CDM regs not apply only to the construction phase of the build?
Kind of but not really. CDM states that the designer must, when designing, consider the construction, operation and demolition of a project. It's actually more about not designing in hazards, ie lights at high level over stairwells with no safe means of changing bulbs.
Do the CDM regs not apply only to the construction phase of the build?
Not necessarily. If during the operational phase works are required which satisfy the CDM criteria, then it will be notifiable construction work.
marcus - Member
DMRB is indeed a design manual and must be used in conjunction with a designers obligations under CDM - Bit like the Building Regulations
I don't agree with this at all. DMRB is a design manual owned by the Highways Agency for use in the design of motorways and trunk roads. Far too many local authority highways departments use it as a bible in street design which is something it has never been intended to be used for and results in massively overdesigned streets and roads. Manual for Streets 2 is a much better tool for the job. There is nothing stating DMRB must be used for anything. Hell, there's no obligation to follow British Standards but you'd need to have done a lot of leg work to justify not using them if something goes wrong.
Oh, and yes NMUs should definitely be considered in design phase and as such CDM regs definitely apply.
pjt - I'm not sure how you can disagree with my comment and then finish by advising CDM applies to the design of roads / highways / streets. ?? - We're saying the same thing. I agree sometimes there is conflict between standards and cdm and would suggest that's when the real design starts and the technical competence of a designer (and the obligations of the CDM co-rodinator to advise his client) are stretched. Otherwise its just copying what's been done before. And like you pointed our DMRB is often misused.
CDM regulations will kick in at project inception with the client and appointment of a CDM-C, even before design and construction phase of the project starts.
The designer should design out the hazards where possible, but at same time will not design in something that the client has not specified in the brief (who would pay for it?). If hazards cannot be designed out then the designer must record these as residual risks.
If this takes place then there is no failing on the designers part under CDM.
Rene - I dont know many clients that would specify particular safety 'features' (cradles for window cleaning, fully rotating windows, a method of safe construction,etc) - They would expect their designers (under obligations of CDM) to recommend to them what was required.
Are you suggesting that highways designers are actually recommending to clients (typically, HWA, Local Authorities, County Councils, etc) that segregated cycle lanes and better cycle friendly juctions should be provided in new roads under CDM but these 'recommendations' are being ignorded by the Client. ??
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Rene - I dont know many clients that would specify particular safety 'features' (cradles for window cleaning, fully rotating windows, a method of safe construction,etc) - They would expect their designers (under obligations of CDM) to recommend to them what was required.
True, but sometimes they will specify extras such as seperate cycle lanes (might have targets to meet, special funding).
Are you suggesting that highways designers are actually recommending to clients (typically, HWA, Local Authorities, County Councils, etc) that segregated cycle lanes and better cycle friendly juctions should be provided in new roads under CDM but these 'recommendations' are being ignorded by the Client. ??
No but they won't design in extras if not specified.
Rene - I'm not sure what experience you have with the process, but why do you consider a cycle lane 'an extra' and not an essential consideraion under the requirements of CDM to afford protection to users of the 'road'.
