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question to the creators of multiple award winning cave aged and clothbound mature cheeses present on this thread;
what reasonably priced cheddar would you recommend?
(bonus points if we can score it from tesco)
@molgrips Various flora in the air, humidity varies as well between maturing stores and caves, wether the cheese has been turned or not, time between turnings, milk quality and fat content, starter cultures used, what the cows have been fed on can all affect the final product.
Loaded question. Depends what you want to do with it (cook, snack, sandwiches, cheeseboard) what's your budget. My stock answer is Quickes as a) its my favourite and b) I get on with the family well.
The crunchy bits are calcium lactate crystals and encouraged by the starter cultures used. Theyve been quite popular for a few years now, same with the sweeter cheddars using helveticus cultures. If you want to avoid go for a west country cheddar such as Montgomery or Keens, you'll usually find them in a local farm shop or deli. Bit pricier than normal cheddar but very good. Also look out for Lincolnshire Poacher, not cheddar but a nice alternative.
They dont make cheddar. They buy it in and extrude it after blitzing it in a bowl chopper. Other cheese has added ingredients. BRC scope link https://directory.brcgs.com/site/1247032
My stock answer is Quickes as a) its my favourite and b) I get on with the family well.
Looks lovely, but 500g EM is £11.80 + P&P - that's just a week's supply for my family of gannets. Over £50 a month for everyday cheese is too much for me!
'Faux leather' and 'award-winning' irritate
Yep, Keen's is a good one.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, same goes for taste, everyone's different! You can make hundreds of different cheese from the 4 same ingredients, milk, salt, rennet and starter. How much of each you add and specifically timings between dropping vats, renneting, salting whether to scald and at what temp, all make a difference. Further changes can be made during maturation.
@idlejon the ppt of cheddar has gone up from £3100 to £3600 so expect pricing to go up. Most standard block cheddar is OK, contrary to opinions on here regarding CC although they did have a few quality issues a few years ago. Lockerbie is pretty good also known as Arla Scottish Cheddar. Isle of Man Creamery can be pretty good too.
Vauxhall, British since 1916
Owned by the yanks, now the French!
What about AMG Sport?
these are the cheese facts we need
My favourite supermarket cheese is Colliers' from Asda. Not quite as good as it was a few years back though.
Strangely, I found some in a local supermarket in Duluth, Minnestota. No idea how come they ended up selling it there.
Despite being very full… I feel the need for a cheese course now…
Always room for cheese
Our living room is painted in “Clam Shack” FFS.
I had to build a replica of the Fuhrer Bunker from the photographs a Time photographer had taken just after the fall of Berlin and found a reference for colour from a snap taken of a corner of the bunker that was accidentally exposed during building work in the 1980s. Then colour match it at B&Q.
The doors in Hitler's bunker were 'Sleepy Kitten'
I have tried it as it happens. Hence why it came to mind too, after seeing the Barn sawn Oak.
Someone bought me some from, of all places, Lidl I think. One of those ones you get in the wax.Tasted no different to your bog standard Cathedral City to me.
Perhaps you need some from a deeper cave. The only thing more artisanal that cave aged cheese is artesian cheese.
I see those boards and just think they should have swapped the blade for a sharpened one a good few cuts ago, that'll all have to go through a planer/thicknesser now.
Have cut oak in barns, yards and fields and it looks better than that.
Soft kitty, war kitty, little ball of Fuhrer...
Saw on a can of lynx..
"high definition scent" really.
Also for all your hipster bar name and menu items..
http://www.brooklynbarmenus.com/
I see those boards and just think they should have swapped the blade for a sharpened one a good few cuts ago, that’ll all have to go through a planer/thicknesser now.
Have cut oak in barns, yards and fields and it looks better than that.
I quite like the effect really.
I made a wall cabinet at uni in about 1997 where the door was made up from strips of curved Oak layered up.
I specifically chose the bluntest, most knackered blade I could find to get some more texture and burning onto the wood. 😊
As the creator of multiple award winning cave aged and clothbound mature cheeses, I can categorically state theres a difference and its not just marketing guff.
Lol! To me, and I suspect most folk out there, it's 100% marketing guff. It's like wine; so much pretentious **** over fermented grape juice. You either like it or you don't. I've had proper expensive wine that's tasted rank, and a £5 bottle from LiDL, that was fantastic. That's why I don't swallow all this artisanal bollocks. It's all about snobbery and elitism, at the end of the day. Cave aged my arse! 😀
The only thing more artisanal that cave aged cheese is artesian cheese.
😀
Nobody else? Just me?
Taste is such a subjective thing...
Jeez what a bunch of Philistines and reactionaries we have on here. It's like anything - if you get into something you can start to see the differences and appreciate the quality.
We are back to why is a £2k bike better than a £50 'full suspension' from ASDA.
It’s all about snobbery and elitism, at the end of the day.
I think it is a shame that in this country quality food is fetishised and marketed as a middle class luxury thing. In France or Italy people just want decent stuff because why would you want the shite stuff.
Jeez what a bunch of Philistines and reactionaries we have on here.
...And bingo; there's the snobbery and elitism. 'If you can't tell the difference you're just an ignorant pleb'.
This is why hipsters ruin everything.
‘If you can’t tell the difference you’re just an ignorant pleb’.
Um...
if you get into something you can start to see the differences and appreciate the quality.
I'm totally ignorant when it comes to the merits of expensive cars, antique violins, fine jewelry or watches. That doesn't mean I'll go around saying they're shite and you'd have to be an idiot to buy them.
This is why hipsters ruin everything
Hipsters who are elitist and pretentious are annoying, but what exactly is wrong with making/buying food and drinks made from quality ingredients that are sourced more ethically/sustainably, or reusing old/reclaimed materials to make furniture etc? Because that's what lots of 'hipsters' are doing.
If you're happy with your £5 LIDL wine then great (LIDL is generally reckoned to be quite a good pace to buy wine) but why do you feel the need to denigrate people who choose something different?
😀
In France or Italy people just want decent stuff because why would you want the shite stuff.
Well you know it costs more, right?
These guys make some amazing Cheddar
Black Bomber is my favourite Cheddar. Not cheap, but you need very little. The flavoured cheddars they do are all a bit of a waste of money in my opinion... cheaper alternatives do the same job.
Well you know it costs more, right?
Yeah but if you cook from scratch, buy in bulk where possible, and try not to waste anything it can be pretty affordable to buy really decent ingredients. I'm far from flush at the moment but we eat pretty well most of the time.
bridges
Free Member
😀Posted 1 hour ago
Ah yes, successful troll is successful 👏
People trying to prove their supposed salt of-the-earth working-class credentials by pretending they love shite stuff is just another form of snobbery anyway. 😉
Black Bomber is my favourite Cheddar. Not cheap, but you need very little.
Wtf do you mean you need very little? If I'm eating cheese, I need lots! It's not truffle oil!
That’s why I don’t swallow all this artisanal bollocks. It’s all about snobbery and elitism, at the end of the day. Cave aged my arse! 😀
Spam from bridges and that's probably what he's happy eating. 😀
Dammit, I want cheese now. I wonder if I have some in the fridge
If I’m eating cheese, I need lots!
We always have a 1kg (actually, tends to be 900g now, doesn't it) block of cheap un/own-branded mature cheddar being slowly worked through in the fridge. I like a bit of Black Bomber on Christmas cheese boards etc though. Anyway... less is more with cheese... you can get a lot of flavour using very little each time. Twice the cheese isn't twice the taste. The exception to that is vegetarian risotto... were the more cheese the better due to lack of chicken stock.
This is too spendy for even pretentious hipster me to use on the regs but if you fancy a cheese-treat
https://www.thecourtyarddairy.co.uk
Blessed are the cheesemakers
"Billet CNC'd"
Turned from a bit of barstock by a computer then. Luxurious.
Now if it was hand forged from meteorite and clad in reclaimed bog oak, you might be able to justify the price premium, but they are literally making it the cheapest, quickest way possible. Anyway, the quality will be in tbe quality checks, CNC needs to be set up properly. If the finishing tool offset is wrong and nobody noticed, guess what? You just made a pallet full of shit. I've had to fix pallets and pallets of CNC machined stuff by hand. It aint all that, its only as good as the setter and the quality checking, same as anything.
Ah yes, successful troll is successful 👏
Troll? Nah; I'm just amused by how wound up you got by an imagined slight.
I've got nothing against fine quality things; I enjoy hand-made chocolates from a local artisan chocolate place, which are VERY expensive. It's an occasional treat. I was just responding to the Emperor's New Clothes marketing guff spouted by some brands. Because that's what this thread is actually about...
People trying to prove their supposed salt of-the-earth working-class credentials by pretending they love shite stuff is just another form of snobbery anyway. 😉
You're mistaking me with someone else... 😉
Spam from bridges and that’s probably what he’s happy eating. 😀
I developed an aversion for that disgusting muck very early in life, in the 1970s. It's only organic, hand-fed and daily massaged free range pork for me these days...
Troll? Nah; I’m just amused by how wound up you got by an imagined slight
I see that trope a lot on here and it's tedious.
It's like the George Carlin thing about driving - everyone faster than you is a maniac and everyone slower is a doddering fool. Everyone thinks they strike the correct balance between being a scumbag and being a pretentious ponce, and everyone above and below is getting it all wrong.
There's quite a surprising number of people on here who still seem to think they are working class heroes who just happen to have a couple of £3k mountain bikes and a £30k Transporter.
The exception to that is vegetarian risotto… were the more cheese the better due to lack of chicken stock.
Easy:
https://veggiedesserts.com/vegan-chicken-broth-seasoning/
Or:
https://foodiosity.com/vegetarian-substitute-for-chicken-broth/
hth
Ta. I’ll give that a go. Being dried that would be very handy for quick noodle dishes once made. For broth I make something similar from fresh ingredients (onion and celery being the essential bits really), using a soup maker. Still needs the cheese though (for us anyway).
EDIT: Doh! Just saw you posted two different links. Yes, the second one is pretty much what I do for broth for risotto if it’s a non-meat week. Thanks again though. Will try the first.
I don't buy much or any meat. Market cheese stall here today also does Saffron Waldron (where one J Oliver is a customer) and I spend about £13 a week. It's world class stuff. Nothing pretentious but why should people be expected to eat shite?
I once followed a woman round in a French supermarche. She was in a cleaner's outfit and had a bottle of serious fizz and a f big steak in her trolley. Right priorities. Nothing's too good for the working class.
bridges v grum round 2...
In VERY general terms, price is driven by quality and/or availability.
I don't partulicularly like cheese so won't comment on posts ^^^
By way of comestibles my personal indulgence is wine; there are lots of ready to drink offerings in supermarkets and merchants which are fine for...need a bottle to drink in 30 mins.
Happy to drink many of them - with no expectations of a taste sensation; that sensation comes from a selected bottle, properly cellared/stored and all the rest.
Each to their own.
+1 for artisan chocolatier - if they make locally from raw ingredients; many buy in bulk from Belgium and then present as local when - they're not.
@BenjiM,
Are you genuinely some kind of cheese maker, merchant, or otherwise involved in the trade? You sound like you might be, youre certainly very knowledgeable about it. If so, can you explain what makes a cheddar a cheddar? The taste variation is extreme, from bland Crayola crayon up to almost pungent, and every variation inbetween. How can they all be cheddar? Also, does the number which grades cheese strength mean anything, is it standardised, or do cheesemakers just stick whatever they like on the packet?
Also, last question; I do like Snowdonia cheese, especially the green one, but Im also partial to the black one. They all come covered in wax. The wax taste on the black one is very noticeable sometimes.And yes, I am taking it off before eating it. Is there any way to avoid this, maybe letting it breathe or something? Will those oils/waxes dissipate like this? If anyone knows the answer I would love to hear it, btw.
Four pages in, and no one has mentioned coffee yet 🤨
and no one has mentioned coffee yet 🤨
thought you'd never ask
Black one sugar please
I think this is probably the ****iest coffee website I've come across.
Unsurprisingly, they have an outlet in Dubai.
Roasting coffee is an art form. That's why we use watercolour paintings to represent the complex flavour profiles of each new specialty roast. But instead of colours, we use a palette of flavours; from brown sugar, jasmine and dragonfruit to blackberry, nutty caramel - and everything in between. With some of the most refined palates in the coffee industry, each one of our rare and distinctive roasts is a masterpiece.
https://www.goldboxroastery.com/uk
Well given that ‘hen’ refers to the female of most if not all birds then this feels fairly redundant. Chicken’s egg sounds a bit.. coarse, don’t you think? 🙂
It's also a female lobster...
[url= https://i.ibb.co/tqzw89f/5-B266-C21-7-CAD-4-EE2-BA88-9-B329-CFB6-B90.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/tqzw89f/5-B266-C21-7-CAD-4-EE2-BA88-9-B329-CFB6-B90.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://imgbb.com/ ]google sign pictures[/url]
I do like how the Aussies don’t tend to muck about with cheese.
It’s tasty. That’s all you need to know.
That's Aussie naming full stop.
See Brown Snake, Black Snake, Red-Bellied Black Snake, Blue Moubtains, Great Sandy Desert, Great Barrier Reef,Kangaroo Island, etc,etc.
Say what you see
"It's a bay, there's sharks in it, what shall we call it?"
Say what you see
They're just copying Lancashire though.
see also 'creamy' and 'crumbly' Lancashire.
Thing is, with all this cheese in caves, are bears not a problem?
Are you genuinely some kind of cheese maker, merchant, or otherwise involved in the trade? You sound like you might be, youre certainly very knowledgeable about it. If so, can you explain what makes a cheddar a cheddar? The taste variation is extreme, from bland Crayola crayon up to almost pungent, and every variation inbetween. How can they all be cheddar? Also, does the number which grades cheese strength mean anything, is it standardised, or do cheesemakers just stick whatever they like on the packet?
Also, last question; I do like Snowdonia cheese, especially the green one, but Im also partial to the black one. They all come covered in wax. The wax taste on the black one is very noticeable sometimes.And yes, I am taking it off before eating it. Is there any way to avoid this, maybe letting it breathe or something? Will those oils/waxes dissipate like this? If anyone knows the answer I would love to hear it, btw.
I was (changed jobs) up until the end of last week a technical manager for a cheesemaker (and dairy farmer) and wholesaler, importer/exporter of cheese and dairy products (and other "fine foods" olives, charcuterie etc.) I'm involved in NPD, food safety, hygiene, import, export specification writing, product descriptions, labelling, cheese grading and QC etc.. I pretty much have to know the products inside out and I also know a lot of folk in the cheesemaking trade, again from small producers such as the Davenports at Cotehill in Market Rasen to the big producers like Arla. Also have to deal with the supermarkets as well as independent retailers, manufacturers and wholesalers. So I have a large experience of all things cheese.
Cheddar is cheddar when the cheddaring process is used to make it. Also has to be <39% moisture min fat 29% (see here
for other legal limits). The strength grading is typically supermarket led, rather than cheesemaker led.
On the Snowdonia, Green Thunder and Black Bomber? The wax should be food safe (IIRC they use the same manufacturer as we do for wax) but it's possible the garlic and herbs mask it on the Green Thunder. Leave it to breath for an hour after taking the wax off and it should come right.
Same goes for blue cheese, if the mould's gone yellow it's lacked oxygen and it should come back if it's been open for about an hour. Not always the case as it can depend on the acidity and age of the cheese.
The dairy I used to work for appeared on the first episode of the Hairy Bikers up North a few weeks ago, with the Water Buffalo.
Well I've just been through BenjiM's lactose tolerant stomping ground (which is indeed crawling with cheese and yoghurt manufacturers) and I have some sad news to report. The long time classic piece of landmark rural graffiti: "drink milk!" has been scandalously removed from a chevron bend road sign 🙁
@BenjiM
Thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions, very helpful indeed.
So do Snowdonia do the “cheddering” themselves?
That Hairy Bikers series was ace.
@mick_r On the corner on the way into Longridge on the Chipping Road?
@kelvin No they buy in 20kg block cheddar from the big producers such as Ornua, Dale Farm, Saputo (Dairy Crest) bowl chop it (basically a big food processor) until it's the right consistency i.e. creamy (add ingredients if required (e.g. Red Devil has added Chilli) and extrude it to shape either using a pressure extruder or a vacuum former, then run it along a wax enrobing line. The bowl chopping process for the most part removes the original texture of the cheese.
Edit: The buffalo cheese was one of my babies. World Cheese Awards Winner and just won best buffalo cheese at the international Cheese and Dairy Awards in Staffordshire (Class DP152)
Are you distributing free samples?
🤡
Will try it out if I can find it.
Yup that one. It got a giggle from the kids every time we pass it. Can you pop out for a pedal later with a brush and white paint? Pretty sure it has been there for at least 4 years.
Back to cheese - the science side of food manufacture is pretty fascinating. How do people end up with that as a career? Are the basics just long established and people learn and work up through the company? Or are people nowadays starting from a science (Biology? Chemistry?) or academic food tech background?
@mick_r Have you seen the forecast!
I started of packing grated cheese by hand and worked my way up (although I did have an HND in catering and institutional management), others would probably start in a QA role or have done some sort of degree in microbiology. Cheesemakers are really hard to come by particularly for smaller dairies, early starts and lots of hard graft when it's in a traditional facility. There will be others with backgrounds in nutrition who tend to get in to being raw materials technologists. Don't get me started on spray drying and microwave drying!
Cheers BenjiM. Will have to get the boy interested - he's doing biol / chem / maths A level and probably heading towards health science, but must admit I'd never considered that the local food industry used the same skills.
Homemade 6X Gold beer battered fish goujons, baby gem and tartare sauce
Somewhere in north Wiltshire, then, at a guess. Seeing as how 6X is brewed in Devizes. Beer batter does taste better, though.
to the big producers like Arla.
Ha! There’s an Arla plant just along the road from where I work in Westbury, and depending on the wind, it’s very easy to tell when they’re cleaning the tanks out, or pipes, or whatever. 😖
Westbury tends to deal with butter, fats and spreads, rather than cheese 🙂
Some interesting info on cheese caves here, including how to build your own.
Seems my gentle mockage of the term cave-aged has been rightly and completely crushed by stw having a resident cheese guru (should have known really). 🧀
I think it was more about the mental image that the word 'cave' conjures up, versus the more likely reality of a modern, hygienic temperature controlled warehouse that is still referred to as a cheese cave.
Versus
I still have Barn-sawn at least 😅
Edit to be honest, the top cave is similar to where Cheddar Gorge and Wookey Hole cheddars are matured (although not for their full life). Comte Fort St Antoine is, for example, matured in an old military fort. The caves of Roquefort sur Soulzon have a unique air flow which prevents stagnant air hanging around. Emmi's Kaltbach EmmenthAL is matured in a sandstone cave.
I'm getting hints of cheesy clam cave with kitten doors.
It was the Wookey Hole stuff I was thinking of. I took my daughter to see the caves and couldn't leave without buying cheese.
Dry-aged beef is another of my favourites. It's basically stored in a cold, dry place until the outside goes rotten. After the rotten part is trimmed off, the remainder has a nutty taste, like rotten meat but safe to eat. It does taste great, but the marketing nonsense is a bit over the top.
https://www.tomhixson.co.uk/beef/salt-moss-aged
Everyday's a school day, I had no idea that Cheddar is a verb. I've always thought it was the place the cheese was invented or the name of the bloke who first made it...
The M&S Red Leicester I have is "crafted by the award winning Taw Valley Creamery" according to the wrapper.
It’s not just products. Every plumber, carpenter, electrician hairdresser, builder, gardener etc is providing “bespoke solutions”.
It’s also a female lobster…
"And since they've taken buried hens, the lobster too are at an end" - from Streets of Staithes by Vin Garbutt.
It’s not just products. Every plumber, carpenter, electrician hairdresser, builder, gardener etc is providing “bespoke solutions”
My van says 'Bespoke Furniture' and bespoke is what I do, but I agree, there are an awful lot of 'solutions' out there.
I suppose anyone who deals in liquid mixtures in which the minor component (the solute) is uniformly distributed within the major component (the solvent), can confidently offer Solution Solutions.
That’s Aussie naming full stop
Aussie naming has a good dose of irony - Have a good hillclimb near me called Mt Buggery
Or often uses Indigenous terms to create near impossible pronunciations (eg Mt Ngun Ngun is correctly pronounced Mt Noo Noo)
Lots of BS terms around for food of the artisanal variety etc though. Where do you think the (anything but) flat white comes from?
often uses Indigenous terms to create near impossible pronunciations
Try Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu
I've been trying to find (without success) an episode of "How It's Made" about pizza, where it shows how pizza is handstretched...
The pizza flops off a dough making machine onto a conveyor in a perfect circle and is touched in opposite directions for about half a second by an operative who makes it wonky.
Oh, and the operatives are wearing gloves 😁
Anyway, couldn't find it but I did find this "Handmade" Pizza episode instead... see if you can spot the handmade bits
Where do you think the (anything but) flat white comes from?
New Zealand?
Not the same but: Hand made crisps. Which part of the process? & besides get your **** hands off my crisps.
Hand made bicycle frames always struck me as odd. Is there any bike frame not made by hand? I would guess even BSO frames have hands on them at some point.