[Closed] Catholic school but we are devout atheist

How do the above posts help?
Or is it just venting?

You've been offered a VC school, you can turn the offer down and find a community school further away.

The LA has met it's duty by offering a school.

my posts ?
i agree with you the LA have met the criteria and the odds of a successful appeal are not looking good, if it goes in our favor then it will be from compassion rather than any rights we have. as we can always take a school in another location move, neither option is appealing but that is our choice.

The bit im not happy about is my wife and i being forced to sign a religious code and my child being forced to partake in religious superstitions.

the LA done their duty and have provided a place at a school for education to the national curriculum but i dont feel we should be forced to partake in mas, prayer, rain dances or any other mumbo jumbo

The bit im not happy about is my wife and i being forced to sign a religious code and my child being forced to partake in religious superstitions.

No one is being forced to do anything. You can chose not to accept.

If I felt so strongly that I was being "forced" to do something that I disagreed with, for me and my child, then I'd probably feel a huge sense of relief from being able to say "no, thanks" and looking to the next steps.

If you make that decision, I wish you the very best of luck at the appeal to win your daughter the place you want for her.

Woop, if the panel rules in your favour it WILL NOT be, in fact cannot be, one of compassion. If you appeal, the clerk should explain to you the very limited reasons why an appeal can be allowed.

My rather grumpy post above was meant in terms of, whether or not a child at the allocated school has to take part in collective worship or education has no bearing on the decision to refuse school A.

aa understood and appreciate your unbiased input on a topic that is emotive

My other half went to an RC school. She's an atheist now. Quite possibly [i]because[/i] of the RC schooling. She's got a fair brain on her though. Plenty of her compatriots are mindlessly continuing the inherited religion nonsense, it seems.

No one is being forced to do anything. You can chose not to accept.

yes take your point, i could move. but it seems a little unfair in this day and age that schools within our free education system can impose religious practice on other groups Atheists, Muslims and Christians alike.

Imagine if a Catholic family was placed in a Mulsim school and not the local Catholic school and then had to sign a Muslim code of practice and agree to partake in the prayer sessions. at the end of the day the LA have fulfilled its commitment to provide a school and if they don't like it then they can move hey.

The point is faith schools are limiting the options for education for everyone and i don't personally believe it should be a factor but that is the system we have and this thread is not going to solve that.

In spite of my lack of patience with some of the inaccurate and ignorant (malicious or not) assertions about religion on this thread, the fact is that, having grown up in Canada, I remain amazed that religion continues to hold the place it does in public schools.

I strongly agree with Junkyard that in a school, an atheist, a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, or whoever, should have the same education, and the same access to the same education. Even if I thought everyone should believe exactly what I believe (which I don't), I don't think it's helpful for one minute to subject children - or anyone else - to public indoctrination, or forced 'acts of worship'.

In spite of my lack of patience with some of the inaccurate and ignorant (malicious or not) assertions about religion on this thread, the fact is that, having grown up in Canada, I remain amazed that religion continues to hold the place it does in public schools.

I strongly agree with Junkyard that in a school, an atheist, a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, or whoever, should have the same education, and the same access to the same education. Even if I thought everyone should believe exactly what I believe (which I don't), I don't think it's helpful for one minute to subject children - or anyone else - to public indoctrination, or forced 'acts of worship'.

Amen

I strongly agree with Junkyard that in a school, an atheist, a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, or whoever, should have the same education, and the same access to the same education. Even if I thought everyone should believe exactly what I believe (which I don't), I don't think it's helpful for one minute to subject children - or anyone else - to public indoctrination, or forced 'acts of worship'.

I don't think it's helpful for one minute to subject children - or anyone else - to public indoctrination, or forced 'acts of worship'

Furthermore, it'd be pretty flippin easy to avoid.

[quote=womp ]the method for the points system uses AA routfinder for distance

Another can of worms there - I presume they're allowed to do that, but it flies in the face of supposed national aims for sustainable transport to select schools based on closest driving distance. They do at least state closest walking distance here (which does potentially make a difference - though it would be kind of interesting to try and use AA routefinder for local houses which aren't on it).

"I strongly agree with Junkyard that in a school, an atheist, a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, or whoever, should have the same education, and the same access to the same education. Even if I thought everyone should believe exactly what I believe (which I don't), I don't think it's helpful for one minute to subject children - or anyone else - to public indoctrination, or forced 'acts of worship'.

+1. Actually, I don't have a problem with faith schools, provided that the state doesn't pay for them."

+1

[quote=womp ]The bit im not happy about is my wife and i being forced to sign a religious code and my child being forced to partake in religious superstitions.
What happens if you refuse to sign?

Surely in this multi-faith day and age, the only rational option is to remove the religious element from all State funded schools?
Let the experts teach religion - the churches/temples/mosques/synagogues etc and keep public schooling a purely secular affair.
You can of course pay for a private religious education if it is important to you.
As above, whilst i am not a believer i have absolutely no problem with the concept of a religiously based education - i just don't think it should be funded by the taxpayer.

To be honest, I think a state funded school with a religious aspect is the least of our worries with the academy agenda. BUT, I honestly think that with tax payers money paying for free schools with their own agendas to push then a voluntary aided or cofe school is nothing to get too worked up about. Plus, statistically, cofe schools perform better than community schools if I remember correctly. Plus, who doesn't want diversity??
(having said that, I did suggest removing the religious criteria from vc schools on my patch a couple of years ago but was shot down by our solicitors/elected members).

Surely in this multi-faith day and age, the only rational option is to remove the religious element from all State funded schools

No.

The religious aspect should absolutely be a part of state education, so long as it's taught in an academic fashion. Kids should be taught what Christians / Muslims / Buddhists / Atheists believe, and be able to learn from the positive tenets of all religions. It needs to be an impartial, unbiased education.

It's when one preferred doctrine is presented as fact alongside Maths, Physics etc that we have a problem. Because kids look to teachers as purveyors of absolute fact and it's an abuse of power to bundle an individual belief system into an educational curriculum as though they're the same thing.

Let the experts teach religion

Let the schools [i]teach [/i]religion. Let the experts, ie churches / mosques / whatever [i]preach[/i] religion. That's their raison d'etre.

Cougar, I agree with you entirely. And when you say

The religious aspect should absolutely be a part of state education, so long as it's taught in an academic fashion. Kids should be taught what Christians / Muslims / Buddhists / Atheists believe, and be able to learn from the positive tenets of all religions. It needs to be an impartial, unbiased education.

The only thing I would add is that I wish this was done in the context of a class akin to what we in Canada used to call 'Social Studies': a mix of history and geography that got students to engage with places and cultures in all their facets. I think such a class would be even better than devoting a class to 'religious studies', as when it is divorced from the temple (or wherever), it is better seen as part of the human cultures from which it emerges. Anyway, just a thought.

Speaking if not as a "militant atheist" then certainly as an "assertive atheist," I'm wholly behind that, it's a brilliant idea.

Why isn't this the default baseline? Oh, yeah, people.

Question - how can you present 'an impartial, unbiased' academic fashion?
Not being picky, but there are so many religious people out there with their own interpretations of their faiths i can see an endless stream of challenges to what is being taught.
I suppose i can't see how religion can be taught 'academically' without constant challenge.

@muddydwarf: I doubt it would ever be perfect, but in pedagogical terms, it could be taught with the same approach as history or politics. In other words, bias will not be avoided, but admitted and then factored in as part of the study.

Maybe give the role of "RE Teacher" to agnostics?

I don't know, I have a couple of friends of friends who are academic theologians so it's certainly doable; whether it's scalable across the national curriculum is another matter. But I don't have a serious answer.

But at that level, RE needs bundling with things like History and Geography. The argument then distils to "how can you teach World War II without being a Nazi?"

in pedagogical terms

I see that point and largely agree, but would caveat that there aren't powerful voices arguing that the teaching of C20th history is prejudicial to Nazi's..
NOT that I'm comparing religion to Nazism by the way, just saying that religions tend to have very powerful ways of putting pressure on.

Why isn't this the default baseline? Oh, yeah, people.

No, history, the Church has been involved in education a lot longer than the state. It seems to work as well as their schools perform. We tend to be a reasonably conservative (small c) and pragmatic country that is loath to change what may be perceived as historical anomalies that seem to function ok.

Both my sons chose to study RE (combined with philosophy and ethics) at A level. Taught by revs and other members of the RE department and taught brilliantly. Developed highly critical levels of analysis generally and of major religious texts. Level of scholarship way beyond what I was taught at school. They both note the "extreme"'levels that teachers went to not to even hint at their beliefs and actually found that slightly frustrating.

One now even studying theology as a minor subject in first year at Uni despite being a historian and loves it.

Poor things - scared for life. I expect a call from NSPCC in the morning and the school to be closed forthwith. Shocking in this day and age.

Poor things - scared for life. I expect a call from NSPCC in the morning and the school to be closed forthwith. Shocking in this day and age.

I don't think anyone has an issue with studying religion, it's taking part in one religion at school that's the issue.

Consistent with my post whilst I am a little bit surprised by the school code its absolutely appropriate and correct that the school can decide to include it. No one is obliged to attend the school. It's a Catholic School and they are known to have a greater religious focus than CoE, argubaly less of a religious focus than a Jewish or Muslim school.

OP I would wager there are many parents at the school who are not believers in Jesus but they take the view that the academic advantages are worth accepting the religious elements which for many kids they will question as they get older and decide for themselves whether they share those beliefs.

No one is obliged to attend the school.

You have very selective reading, my friend.

The OP's daughter has been offered a place in this school and nowhere else. A prerequisite of her attendance, if the school is to be believed, is signing up to the school's religious bent. She is, pretty much by definition, forced to attend.

What other options do you suggest if they decline the place? Should a family be forced to move house because of enforced superstition?

I asked already but couldn't spot an answer. What happens if the parents don't sign up to the schools religious code but the child turns up at school?

Mate of mine is a RE(there are other strings to the qualification) teacher and on his post grad teaching course there were Christians, Buddhists, and agnostics. Because, as he said, they were to teach about religion not preach about religion.

An edict came round a few weeks ago banning us from giving our stand points on the referendum and elections. But we could have a neutral discussion. IMHO this is how religion should be taught.

Media shit storm

YOu cannot refuse a school due to not liking the religion - well you can try but you have no right

I assume the LEA - local education Authority- would get involved and it would depend on who blinked first

I think they probably would and then sent the child to another school.

Jamby would you be being so supportive if a non denomination school made all parents sign up saying they had to denounce their religious beliefs and embrace aesthetic ethos to attend- would this be

correct that the school can decide to include it

Clearly the catholics are forcing folk to "join in" clearly only the religious and those with authoritarian tendencies defend this or in some cases those with both

@Cougar I understand that was the school offered and that the OPs first choice was not available. The OP can challenge the offer. What I'd say is that to do so on the basis of "its too religious" its quite fraught, Catholic is too religious but CoE is OK ?

I appreciate your question Junkyard but the school isn't actually asking pupils to believe in Jesus / religion just attemd the classes and respect their rules. How hard is it to stand in morning assembly 30 mins religious content or not ? I am firmly of the veiw that parents should try and see the big picture and if the school is a good one then accept it, they can share their athiest views at home.

Clearly the catholics are forcing folk to "join in" clearly only the religious and those with authoritarian tendencies defend this or in some cases those with both

How are they "forcing folk to join in"?

I would guess that the head would prefer to have parents and pupils who want to be there for whatever reason, not that they been forced to attend.

As I said earlier, I attended RC schools. I never saw any of the things that the OP has described in his posts. Or some of the more ludicrous stuff that has been suggested by others.

There was also a small number of non-Catholic children who attended. I never remember them being forced to "join in". They would of have to attended the weekly church service but they didn't have to "join in". In fact, as I remember very few of the children really "joined in" and most would of preferred to be anyway else.

There was no attempt at conversion, brain washing or listening to any serious "preaching". It was just a school.

What do people actually think will happen if I child of atheist parents attends a faith school? AFAIK it happens a lot and isn't seen as a big deal when the parents want their child to attend as the school is seen as "better" than the other state schools.

FWIW I would prefer that all schools were secular and if families want their children to follow a particular religion, that's up to them.

I am not religious, I don't attend any church.

"An education which starts from a basis of accepting flawed and sexist principles promulgated by a fundementally corrupt and morally bankrupt leadership, is not what I'd want for them. "

And all the other posts like that.
Oh how amusing. The suggestion is that the posters believe in tolerance etc. yet is significantly intolerant.
I have said it before but those spouting " lets be nice to everyone " are often the most intolerant of opposition.
From a primary school teacher's perspective I would say ignore the religion, assuming you are mature enough to do so. Sounds like it. The Catholic schools that I have taught in always have a bit more cash about which maybe handy. Tolerance tends to be greater as well!

How are they "forcing folk to join in"?

They would of have to attended the weekly church service but they didn't have to "join in"

Yes yes we did PE and everyone had to do it but no one had to Join in - it makes no sense as a statement.

What do people actually think will happen if I child of atheist parents attends a faith school?

We constantly strive to ensure that every child not only has the right to develop spiritually, but is also given the very best opportunity to reach their full potential academically, physically, emotionally and socially.

PersonallY i put my childs education above their spiritual development. I do not know an atheist who would do different - you?

http://www.christtheking.manchester.sch.uk/year-groups/year-3

Have a read of Year 3 - what aethost would not rejoice in their kids education being wasted in this way

IMHO either everyone has the right to choose what type of school their child goes to or no one does. Today we have one where only the religious can choose. I also think there is no place for religion in education but, whilst it exists, we ought to have atheist schools. its only fair.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory/84/school_finder/category/833/categoryInfo/27

The list is here feel free to read their mission statements. They dont mind admitting they will try to make your kid a good catholic as this example showed its,often, more important than the actual education.

So there were forced to be there but they were not being forced to join in?
How exactly does that contradiction make sense to you?

Makes complete sense to me. To "join in" an act of worship takes a bit more than being in the same space.

Have a read of Year 3 - what aethost would not rejoice in their kids education being wasted in this way

If the school is wasting education time, how come it out performs the other schools in the LA and the UK as a whole in every metric?

We constantly strive to ensure that every child not only has the right to develop spiritually, but is also given the very best opportunity to reach their full potential academically, physically, emotionally and socially.

PersonallY i put my childs education above their spiritual development. I do not know an atheist who would do different - you?

That statement does not prioritise spiritual development over any other trait.

They dont mind admitting they will try to make your kid a good catholic as this example showed its,often, more important than the actual education.

If that's the case why do faith schools routinely out perform others?

To "make a good catholic" it would take more than what a child gets told at school.

Interesting that you use lower case for "Catholic". You got some issues?

To "join in" an act of worship takes a bit more than being in the same space.

If the school is wasting education time, how come it out performs the other schools in the LA and the UK as a whole in every metric?

I think you need to re word your claim there but i think I know what you mean. I would assume the answer is that they are very good when not wasting time. That fact does negate my point.

That statement does not prioritise spiritual development over any other trait.

If that's the case why do faith schools routinely out perform others?

Interesting that you use lower case for "Catholic". You got some issues?

I don't think anyone has an issue with studying religion

We are probably reading different threads. Still, I don't really mind as mine are past this stage having benefited greatly in the process. They can rip certain interpretations apart much better than the average aetheisr!!! So win-win for them.

I do agree that plenty have an issue with studying unevidenced gibberish at school but enough about economics 😉

If that's the case why do faith schools routinely out perform others?

would caveat that there aren't powerful voices arguing that the teaching of C20th history is prejudicial to Nazi's..

WW2: a war to save the Jews or the last gasp of imperial Europe?

The Troubles: a conflict between religious extremists or the UK's last colonial retreat?

There are still plenty of historical conflicts, and the contestedness of history is built into the subject (at higher levels). You could quite easily do the same with RE.

So they wont need to bow their head to pray then?

Probably not. I didn't.

Yes they put it first because its not the most important thing. Its a faith school because its not the most important thing. Really you want to argue that ?

Nonsense. I'll go back to my point that the school that you linked to, scores way above average both at a local and national average.

If the most important thing was religion then it would have to detract from the educational standards.

At the faith schools I attended the teachers didn't care if you attended Mass on a Sunday or ate meat on a Holy Day, went to Confession, severed as an Altar boy. It was of absolutely no interest to them, if you were the most devout or didn't partake in any Religious activity outside of school. Some of them weren't even Catholic.

OK faith schools are not about faith- they make it sop clear on the ethos statement and by what they teach 🙄
The church has no interest in making anyone be a part of their flock nor converting folk and its just about education- Whilst this point is arguable, what is not on STW, its blatantly false and I have better things to do.

Repeating your non sequitur- its clearly possible to put faith first and still get good results- wont make it a convincing point.I suspect , though I disagree, they argue its beneficial. Either way its just not true.
Adding a new one wont help either

If the most important thing was religion then it would have to detract from the educational standards.

OK faith schools are not about faith- they make it sop clear on the ethos statement and by what they teach

Not what I said.

I did not say they were not about faith. The point I was making is that faith is not the most important thing on a day to day basis.

The church has no interest in making anyone be a part of their flock nor converting folk and its just about education- Whilst this point is arguable, what is not on STW, its blatantly false and I have better things to do.

They don't a very good job at it do they? Didn't work with me and certainly didn't work with an uber atheist like you.

Do you think that schools admit children from other faiths and backgrounds to convert them?

While a "Church" has a vested interest in keeping up it's numbers, evangelical conversions don't really happen in the modern day UK.

"An education which starts from a basis of accepting flawed and sexist principles promulgated by a fundementally corrupt and morally bankrupt leadership, is not what I'd want for them. "

And all the other posts like that.
Oh how amusing. The suggestion is that the posters believe in tolerance etc. yet is significantly intolerant.

Things like sexism I think it's actually laudable to be intolerant of. I'm surprised you don't agree.

That statement does not prioritise spiritual development over any other trait.

Not sure as I'd want to go to a school where education falls under "but also." Assuming for the sake of argument that you're correct, it is at best a bloody poorly worded and misleading mission statement.

If that's the case why do faith schools routinely out perform others?

Could be any number of things. Maybe they simply are better schools? I'd hazard that they're almost certainly better funded, which won't hurt. Or perhaps choosing a Catholic school isn't high on the list of priorities for parents who are more interested in where their next fix is coming from. We're into correlation vs causation again here, who knows.

Which would be somewhat ironic, because assuming the aims of the theists are to improve mental wellbeing then those kids are probably the ones who would most benefit from a spot of spiritual guidance.

Who knows, perhaps some of their wider teaching helps? From the catechisms and the fourth commandment:

2199 The fourth commandment is addressed expressly to children in their relationship to their father and mother, because this relationship is the most universal. It likewise concerns the ties of kinship between members of the extended family. It requires honor, affection, and gratitude toward elders and ancestors. [b]Finally, it extends to the duties of pupils to teachers,[/b] employees to employers, subordinates to leaders, citizens to their country, and to those who administer or govern it.

Well behaved children with respect for teachers might create an environment conducive for learning, you never know, it might catch on?

2199 The fourth commandment is addressed expressly to children in their relationship to their father and mother, because this relationship is the most universal.

Sure it is. "Hi, these are my parents, Dave and Brian."

Well behaved children with respect for teachers might create an environment conducive for learning, you never know, it might catch on?

Almost certainly. Must be lovely for the school, getting all those well-behaved respectful kids in. All the little shits can get allocated to the heathen school up the road.

Actually, we might be onto something here.

How does the selection process work? Is it primarily geography, or does the student's existing scholastic record get taken into account?

Almost certainly. Must be lovely for the school, getting all those well-behaved respectful kids in. All the little shits can get allocated to the heathen school up the road.

Many a true word spoken in jest?

So.. the school says he has to sign the code. If he doesn't, presumably they won't accept his kid. So if they don't accept his kid, the council has to find him another school, no?

Which is what he wants.

So.. the school says he has to sign the code. If he doesn't, presumably they won't accept his kid. So if they don't accept his kid, the council has to find him another school, no?

Which is what he wants.

It's on the other side of quite a big town.

Just looking at the map of the town in question, there are an awful lot of RC primary schools, which doesn't offer many options for parents trying to avoid them.

And it is the RC component that makes the difference - they actually take this stuff seriously, as opposed to CofE schools, which don't tend to give a monkeys as long as you turn up.

For clarity the RC school is the lowest performing of the 3 nearest schools both in terms of results and ofsted reports

It's not bad but hovers around the national average of 80%, my preference is around 95%

The ofsted report critiques the teaching. Particularly maths, teacher feedback, spelling.

I'm on my phone at the moment but will post the results when I'm at a PC

[quote=womp ]For clarity the RC school is the lowest performing of the 3 nearest schools both in terms of results and ofsted reports
It's not bad but hovers around the national average of 80%, my preference is around 95%
The ofsted report critiques the teaching. Particularly maths, teacher feedback, spelling.
I'm on my phone at the moment but will post the results when I'm at a PC
So - what happens if you refuse to sign?

So - what happens if you refuse to sign?

If we are not willing to sign the up to the code of the school and its traditions then we will be allocated another school

The other school is likely to be over the other side of town as the other local schools have a historically low (non in the past 2 years) drop out rate as would be expected as the are all well regurded schools in our area.

@womp, so you have a choice. I appreciate its a choice between a school with in your view relgious shortcomings and one with academic shortcomings. Based on what yiu've posted I am not surprised the school you wanted as first choice is everyone else's first choice

Based on what yiu've posted I am not surprised the school you wanted as first choice is everyone else's first choice

And people wonder why atheists have issues with faith schools

(2nd is CoE dunno about their contract policy)

So - what happens if you refuse to sign?

so you have a choice.

you can hand over your possessions or you can get stabbed

Unfortunately you dont have the choice, that you wish to make, available to you.

Unfortunately you dont have the choice, that you wish to make, available to you.

jambas, does it feel odd to have a shadow even when the sun isn't shining? 😉

Quite amusing but some way form your best passive aggressive digs.
Thanks for letting me know you are still reading 8)

Some of us just cannot help but do the personal stuff eh - not Jamby I have never seen him stoop to such things.

It's worth remembering that school performance ratings and results bear little examination in the real world, with real children- as they are neither control tested nor free from 'massaging'.
Every school must work with the material that it gets given; some control this more than others.
Just because a particular school gets below average results, doesn't mean that they are unable to help take an intelligent, well adjusted child and turn it into a smart, happy adult.
It is perfectly within the bounds of reason to have a poor-scoring school that is actually very good at bringing out the best in switched on kids.
As for religion in schools..? I hate the idea, with a vehemence that only a few could understand.

As for religion in schools...?

Imagine studying any of this lot....

As for religion in schools..? I hate the idea, with a vehemence that only a few could understand.

Guardian reports 1 in 7 don't get first choice school (1 in 6 in London)

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/18/thousands-miss-out-first-choice-primary-school

the "anti" religion brigade are very vociforous and aggressively so

Imagine if we stopped the faithful going to faith schools - probably annoy them to

Separation is the only answer rather than two tier system that favours and actively discriminates on behalf of the religious to the detriment of the "anti" lot

Imagine studying any of this lot.

JY why not get the kids to focus on the social aspects (e.g. 10 commandments) as well as pointing out the other options in terms of religions (so they can't all be right?) and atheist options. You are free to campaign for secular schools of course.

Catholic schools tend to be up there with the best results.

If you want an exam machine then yes that would be true. If you want a rounded human being then maybe not.

If you have a child with problems they are the ****ing worst. I wouldn't pee on any of the secondary Catholic School teachers near us if they were on fire. The sanctimonious un-christian bunch of bastards.

JY why not get the kids to focus on the social aspects

I dont know why not make Jews be atheists at school...really you need to ask? Perhaps we can make them recant the way we have to pray ?
Its a moral/social code I disagree with. I want my kids to use contraception, respect gay people, treat women equally, not seek the advice of an infallible virginal unmarried man for matrimonial advice etc. Might as well ask why meat eaters done want to be forced to study my vegan beliefs and eat one vegan meal a day at compulsory vegan school.

Its interesting how many exceptions from the law this moral code needs else it would be in breach of anti discrimination law. Not a set of ethics I like for my kids but YMMV. I bet the christians would be unhappy to be banned from schools by faith and jobs but hey to say this is like intolerant 🙄

You are free to campaign for secular schools of course.

Sandwich, you seem to dislike Catholics. You give the reason that they are un-Christian. Are they some niche faction? Would you be happy if they were Christian instead?

I was educated by plenty of Catholics I'd quite happily describe as very "un-Christian" in their behaviour.

Thing is, I knew what Sandwich meant. I'm surprised anyone is taking him literally...unless it allows them to be a smarmy little smartarse.

Evening DD,

So you don't like un-Christians, or to be precise 😉 their behaviour, either. That makes two of you it seems.

I get the OPs concern.. I think most modern, progressive parents would [i]prefer[/i] their kids to attend a modern, progressive school that doesn't complicate it's gift of education with backwards ideas..

BUT, I'm very sceptical of fanatical anti-theists like some of the people posting here.. I know that it's a very on trend position to take and it's easy to see why..
If you're at that tender stage of personal development where you still believe that holding strong views on contentious issues gives you more credibility, the anti-theist stance is a pretty safe, some might say iron clad 'value' to assign to yourself to serve that purpose..
It's the current animal rights, CND, vegetarianism, pseudo hipster fad..

At this stage in the game though, we almost [i]all[/i] went to primary schools that had some kind of religious affiliation, and I don't imagine it's done any of us any harm (bar a very few isolated cases)..

If you really want to take a stance against indoctrination be anti-television, or anti-media, anti-5 day week, anti-capitalist, anti-facist...

Having a go at a school for singing a few hymns and teaching a couple of parables is just pure laziness.. I'm pretty sure that if you're a concerned parent it would take minimal effort to rationalise, balance out and fine tune any stuff your kids learn at school that doesn't gel with your own personal ideologies

It's the current animal rights, CND, vegetarianism, pseudo hipster fad..

Amusing but play the argument not the person. I am a "militant atheist" - WTF does it even mean? just as much as i am a militant Scientist or a militant anti homeopathy. When someone believes in hocus pocus and tries to force me and my kids to join in I think i have every right to be "militant".

If you really want to take a stance against indoctrination be anti-television, or anti-media, anti-5 day week, anti-capitalist, anti-facist...

When someone believes in hocus pocus and tries to force me and my kids to join in I think i have every right to be "militant".

This again!

When do you ever get people trying to force you to take part in organised religion?

On average I probably get a Jehovah Witness knocking on my door about once a year and I politely say "no thank you" and close the door. Even then they are not really "forcing" me to join in, just asking me to read something about their beliefs.

Does this really make you react in a "militant" manner?

Or do those big posters outside churches and chapels send you into a rage?

Are you so weak minded that you think that they may be able to convert you?

It all seems very strange behaviour.

fanatical anti-theists like some of the people posting here

I was going to say i was building a bomb as I type but that sort of joke can get you into trouble so I wont risk it.

You have a long way to go before you catch up with your more explodey fanatic competitors

I know ..no good comes out of a lack of faith and a loose moral system.

Forgive us

You are the Abu Hamza of the anti-theist movement and I claim my five quid 🙂

(could I just take a moment to clarify that I'm a big fat athiest, I just don't have a problem with educating my children in the fairy tales of a variety of cultures)

I know regular church goers who are very un-Christian in their behaviour and Catholic's have been responsible for some horrific behaviour be that treatment of single mothers, stealing of babies or child abuse. However, none of that makes a Catholic school "fundamentally" bad