[Closed] Catholic school but we are devout atheist

I imagine they will jump at the chance to move her as there are likely to be many people wanting to move in the opposite direction.

Are you making your child's choices for her already? The religious schools I've seen are quite inclusive and understanding of different viewpoints. I would have thought that other things such as education are higher up the list

I'd go with the better school regardless of the religious attachment. Your views while she's at home will give her a balanced view and hopefully allow her to make her own mind up.

Are you making your child's choices for her already?

Ah, irony.

🙂

Education first religion.....

Inform the school of your standpoint. They'll probably not ant her or take her out of the religious aspect.

It's not like they'll be adding using the canonisation method.

Catholic schools tend to be up there with the best results.

I thought you had to pass a god test (or something) to get in, if you don't result, make the most of it.

Oh and Mrs FD went to catholic school, she doesn't do god, is none the worse for the experience and knows a lot more about God stuff than I do, which I think is good

In fact I went to Catholic primary. Apart from a bit of morning prayer and church time on saints days. I think it was much more balanced about other belief systems than schools my mates went to. I remember doing a poster on taoism.

Go for the best school.

Our two went to CofE school, and are in Scout and Guide groups attached to churches. None of us are religious, it has not affected their views, outlook or education one iota.

Attending religious services - of several faiths and denominations as they have been covered in the curriculum - has probably helped them understand the wider world and cultures far better than a blinkered bunker approach would have done

My kids go to a CoE primary.

Since the new head came in the amount of god-bothering has reached intolerable levels.

Friday afternoon is wasted doing 90 minutes of 'worship'. My lad struggles with the boredom of this and now frequently talks about god stories being made up. They should finish at 1.30 for all the education they are getting.

The amount of god stuff depends on the staff, not the flavour of religion. If they give them too much the kids go off it, big time.

This is a joke, right?

I agree with ScottChegg, above, when he says that 'worship' time should be given over to actual teaching, but aside from that, your children should get a decent education where they are - and I suspect you know that.

There were atheists before, and all schools were 'religious'. Now education is free at the point of use, some happen to be religious, and all of them will still host atheists. [/shock]

What matters is whether or not your kids are well-looked after and well-taught. And most of all, whether or not you can get over yourself.

If a religious person said "I've got strong feelings about atheism and would consider myself anti-atheistic" they would be labeled (rightly) a bigot.

Just sayin'

I used to be a devout atheist, then I lapsed into an apathetic agnostic.

Saxonrider has possibly expressed it a little more forcefully.

Excessive worship will turn the kids off, which has always been counter productive. But as a non religious person, I find things like pause for thought on the radio a very interesting way of looking at real world issues, and our 'worship" when I was at school 40 years ago tended to be of that nature rather fire breathing God bothering which so many paranoid aetheists seem to think will turn their little darlings into Christian fundamentalists.

Not a chance in hell (if you'll pardon the pun) that I'd let my child go to a religious school of any flavour. Of course people are free to believe whatever fairy stories they want, but the organisations that peddle these fictions are nothing short of evil. I think it's staggering and not a little sad that in 2016 they're still allowed to involve themselves in children's education in this way.

What would Jesus do?

IGMC

A few years ago I toyed with the idea of becoming a primary school teacher, I had a few school placements in my area and one was a Catholic school for 2 days. I was shocked quite frankly by the amount of time devoted to religion and religion related shenanigans. I'm not sure if it was some sort of special occasion but I remember a whole morning devoted to creating some religious art bullshit, to add to the other religious bs which festooned every available display space, Ugh. Kids on the other hand seemed balanced and happy if no where near as advanced as kids in the other two schools I went to which were, tbf, the "best" primary schools in the area.

Sounds as though like so many atheists you are as small minded as those whose diminished faculties for reason leave them able to believe in a god. 😈

Aren't all schools meant to teach a balanced curriculum around religious beliefs irrespective of the faith to which they belong?

Our girls go to a CoE school. I am an atheist but at the same time I would not want my two to grow up not believing simply because I do not – I want them to make up their own minds and they can only do that if they are exposed to the options.

When I was younger I was taken to church quite regularly, went to Sunday School, was involved with a local religion-based social group etc but it didn't mean I automatically grew up a Believer. I made my mind up in my own time.

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I am an atheist. I'd not want my kids at a school openly affiliated to RC. I'd be happy with C of E/Quaker/Sikh. Not sure about Islaam.

An education which starts from a basis of accepting flawed and sexist principles promulgated by a fundementally corrupt and morally bankrupt leadership, is not what I'd want for them.

Religion has no place in the general education system.
If you want religion, go to church/mosque/synagogue/gurdwara/other place of religious choice as is your choice.
In a religious school, you have no choice but to be part of some mumbo jumbo about the great pudding in the sky.

Just my tuppence.

edit: spelling

Having endured a catholic education myself, nothing will better guarantee that your offspring will end up an atheist

Well, either that, or they'll come round to the idea of living their life with a nagging sense of guilt, without quite knowing what it is you've done wrong. And you can look forward to lots and lots of grandchildren, obviously....

😀

I'd go and talk to the schools and understand their religious involvement with an open discussion about your concerns. ALL schools are required by law to have acts of religious worship (which you can opt out of). Apparently our local Catholic school has less of this than the local non denominational one!

I have no issue with schools teaching "Religious Studies", but I would draw the line at indoctrination.

If a religious person said "I've got strong feelings about atheism and would consider myself anti-atheistic" they would be labeled (rightly) a bigot.

With the new wonderful academy program coming in can we be sure that the church schools are going to have to offer a balanced curriculum?

Slowoldman, asking questions like 'why' or even worse, 'where is the evidence for that' is just likely to get you in trouble in these debates 😉

Religion has no place in the general education system.
If you want religion, go to church/mosque/synagogue/gurdwara/other place of religious choice as is your choice.

I don't disagree, BUT the system we have in the UK is the system we have.

Being combative and negative from the outset certainly won't help the OP's children approach any kind of learning in the right way. And clearly, the religious aspect can be taken or left.

johndoh's post, above, seems infinitely reasonable to me.

the organisations that peddle these fictions are nothing short of evil.

There is a lovely irony in people having such blinkered and hate-filled views regarding another group for being blinkered and having hate-filled views.

If only people would broaden their minds and they might find that the vast majority of people on all sides are actually OK.

But this is the new black and white internet age. That thing that should have helped the world come closer together but is actually being hijacked by extreme views at either end of any argument because the sensible majority can't be arsed to get involved in all that shit.

Send her in as a subversive agent, teach her Dawkins books by heart and get her to do a leaflet campaign with material from the british humanist assisciation. https://humanism.org.uk/

Or just get together a list of 95 of the biggest hypocrisies of catholic faith based education, nail it to the staff room door and hope for a schism?

😆 @binners

Aren't all schools meant to teach a balanced curriculum around religious beliefs irrespective of the faith to which they belong?

I think there are exemptions for certain types of faith school. So they get to peddle their favoured story, decide who attends on the basis of their parents' faith, and get the taxpayer to fund it all. Welcome to 21st Century Britain.

I am an atheist. I'd not want my kids at a school openly affiliated to RC. I'd be happy with C of E/Quaker/Sikh. Not sure about Islaam. An education which starts from a basis of accepting flawed and sexist principles promulgated by a fundementally corrupt and morally bankrupt leadership, is not what I'd want for them.

Having endured a catholic education myself, nothing will better guarantee that your offspring will end up an atheist

This too is my experience.

My views on religion are the same as the OP's, however whilst my preference is for non-religious schools, if the school was good enough then I'd put my feelings to one side. My girls are both aware of how ridiculous religion is and my 10 year old has already told her teacher than she has no intention of reciting the lords prayer on principle.

For that I feel immensely proud of her.

Devout atheist? Follow a doctrine do you? Then you're a believer too.

Burn him.

OP I share you sense of trouble and conflict. I was also educated at Catholic Primary School and yes that definitely cured me of any religious conviction.

My eldest goes to a C0fE school (my wife is a believer and regularly attends mass). It is the best school in our town (although they are all good and I would have been happy to send him to any of them), but as others have said, the results of relgious, particularly Catholic primary schools, are among the very best.

Send you kid(s) to the best school you can and then make it your parental duty to offer them your alternative view on the subject as much as possible.

I regularly tell my son that I don't believe in a 'theistic God' and we then talk a lot about what that means. It works well when you don't do it in a biggoted way.

I had a Catholic education, partly taught by Nuns and Priests. I don't recall any particular religious bias in my education. I have a GCSE in RE, but I distinctly recall learning far more about Islam and Judaism than Catholicism. Although, we did have to sing hymns in assembly, but I don't think this would upset even the most cynical of atheists.

Despite being a Catholic school, it excelled in teaching Science and Technology and I'm very grateful for the quality of education I got in these subjects as it set up my career.

There is more philosophical consistency in thestabilser's post than in a lot of what some have said on this thread so far.

Frankly, I think the only people who get worked up about other people's faith positions - in school, or anywhere - are the people of extremes on all sides.

FFS, why can't people just live and let live? If you really want to change the education tradition in the UK, then by all means work to do so at the political level. In the meantime, let your kids wonder and question, and try not to be a dick.

There is a lovely irony in people having such blinkered and hate-filled views regarding another group for being blinkered and having hate-filled views.

As I said, people are welcome to beleive whatever nonsense they want, I've no problem with that. It's the organisations of religion that are evil, set up to indoctrinate the young and prey on the weak, vulnerable and stupid. It's not the people I hate, it's the organisations.

FFS, why can't people just live and let live?

I suppose that depends on whether you're happy with the state peddling faith-based doctrine.

Its time for some...

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Why? It doesn't sound bigotted to me, just someone stating their belief.

Just because its a belief doesn't mean it's not bigoted.

"obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices"

"I've got strong feelings about homosexuality and would consider myself anti-homosexual"

"I've got strong feelings about BME populations and would consider myself anti-BME groups"

I suppose that depends on whether you're happy with the state peddling faith-based doctrine.

Read the rest of my post. By all means, work for change; that's what our political system is for. Just don't be a dick about it.

It's really not that difficult...

I wonder whether the OP has already indoctrinated his child in the cult of another omniscient, bearded figure who watches over them at all times.

[img] [/img]

Like most (tory) politicians are much better than the vicars and priests of the world...

And yet people grow up and see how ridiculous father christmas/easter bunny/tooth fairies are, yet the idea of a god is infinitely more preposterous, and adults still believe in it..

Thank you all for your comments, i will try not to get drawn into a discussion about catholic values and the validity of the teachings.

As i also attended a CofE primary and secondary i understand the comments above.

When we viewed this school it was heavily religion orientated and takes up a number of hours that i fell would prefer spent on education, furthermore when i asked about science and in-particular evolution they said they dont have a specific science class as they allow children to discover through play. im not even sure what that means but its a stark contract from the other local schools that teach the children structured science, which in my view makes the other schools a better school.

im off to meet the head of the school now and shall report back

Take your daughter on a trip to the Vatican.
When she has gazed for while in wonder at what is probably the largest accummulation of valuable art on the planet, inform her how many Catholics are starving in the world.

Congratulations! You've just created an Athiest or a Protestant.

Read the rest of my post. By all means, work for change; that's what our political system is for. Just don't be a dick about it.

No-one's being a dick. If my daughter was placed in a faith school (say because all the other options were oversubscribed)then I would have some serious concerns I would want to discuss with them. That seems to be the position of the OP.

when i asked about science and in-particular evolution they said they dont have a specific science class as they allow children to discover through play

It sounds like the problem is not religion so much a them being completely flaky.

EDIT: @ransos

Sorry, I'm not accusing you - or anyone on here - of being a dick. Just being a bit emphatic about what I wish none of us were.

As I said, people are welcome to beleive whatever nonsense they want, I've no problem with that. It's the organisations of religion that are evil, set up to indoctrinate the young and prey on the weak, vulnerable and stupid. It's not the people I hate, it's the organisations.

Absolutely! The teachers at my daughters catholic primary school may think they're fooling me, and others, with their shameless masquerading as well-rounded, decent caring professionals, but I know that beneath the thin veneer they're up there with Hitler or Pol Pot. They are the living embodiment of distilled evil!

when i asked about science and in-particular evolution they said they dont have a specific science class as they allow children to discover through play.

As long as the lesson isn't on the evolution of the venom gland in snakes...

Does sound a bit woolly. Are there any parents of children already at the place you could talk to?

It comes down to the alternatives really. It's quite possible that this school, even allowing for wasting time on religion, remains the best option for your kid.

Chances are a heavily religious curriculum would turn the child off Catholicism, especially if the home is full of alternative viewpoints. Presumably you just want him/her to grow up with a questioning mind, rather than a carbon copy of your own belief system.

Absolutely! The teachers at my daughters catholic primary school may think they're fooling me, and others, with their shameless masquerading as well-rounded, decent caring professionals, but I know that beneath the thin veneer they're up there with Hitler or Pol Pot. They are the living embodiment of distilled evil!

It's not the people I hate, it's the organisations.

HTH

It's the organisations of religion that are evil, set up to indoctrinate the young and prey on the weak, vulnerable and stupid.

Not doubting the historical validity of that.

Meanwhile, back in the real UK world, if we assume that these type of primary schools are there for this purpose, then the overwhelming view of those of us who have experienced them ourselves, or for our own children, is that they are failing catastrophically in their aim. And are therefore nothing to worry about.

Unless you have an underlying concern that your kids are weak, vulnerable and stupid, which is a separate problem. Which from the views expressed on here, I'm guessing isn't an issue, as their parents are obviously capable of advancing the opposing arguments to religious indoctrination.

Though if a strict RC upbringing turns people off religion, I'd be worried that a strict non-religious standpoint might also have the opposite effect to what was intended.

@unknown What like the stationery and shit? pretty sure organisations are made up of people.

So let me get this right unknown? What you're saying is that the teachers are like German concentration camp guards? Vee are only following orders, ja?

[img] /revision/latest?cb=20140827113547[/img]

Put it this way, I'm not a big fan of the current UK government. That doesn't mean I have a problem with each and every civil servant in the country.

I went to a C of E middle school. I never understood why because there was a perfectly good normal school the equal distance from home and neither of my parents are remotely religious thanks to their own upbringings 🙂
The assemblies were mind-numbingly boring and the church visits weren't much better. The Jewish, Muslim and JW kids managed to avoid that and we were quite jealous of them for being treated favorably. Them having crap salad nearly every day in the canteen (save Fridays which was fish) evened things out a little, but they still didn't have to put up with the rector's visits, the lucky gits.
The supposedly non-denominational comp wasn't that much better due to a deeply religious headteacher. Despite his efforts, we learnt a fair amount about most of the major religions, but the RE teacher happened to be an ex-nun and her POV still had a biased slant towards the glory of JC.

To summarise:
Dragging kids off to church services during school hours doesn't make them future churchgoers, it's more likely to put them off for life.

they allow children to discover through play

OP - my understanding is that this is the approach taken by all schools when kids first start. They don't expect 4-5 year olds to sit at desks and learn set subjects, they get suckered in to learning stuff in a slightly more academic setting than pre-school.

The more academic focus kicks in later on, though other than literacy and numeracy, our kids school just covers topics and then pulls out science, history, geography and whatever as part of the topic. Currently on rain forests this term - obvious geography, environmental, science and history aspects, last term was WWII, same again.

Put it this way, I'm not a big fan of the current UK government. That doesn't mean I have a problem with each and every civil servant in the country.

Oh God! Are the civil servants evil too? Maybe not all of them? Do you have an approximate percentage? Or is it more a thing about levels of evil?

I'm really starting to fear for the safety of my children now.

Are the civil servants evil too? Maybe not all of them?

Not HMRC.

Being evil would require a degree of intelligence, organisation and planning that they simply don't possess.

Oh God!

I knew you were one of them...

Morning.

Not going to get involved in this, but my kid's school seems to teach a reasonable amount of God stuff despite not being a church school. We've already had to handle a few questions.

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[b]MUHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!!![/b]

My wife did her A-levels at a Catholic school. She's not an athiest but CofE but moderate rather than an extremist. She nearly got expelled a few times arguing with teachers brainwashing kids about the evils of using contraception and other such silly things. So if you're the sceptical argumentative sort then it might not work. On the upside she got a few days off each year when certain kids were deemed to be possessed by the Devlil and they got someone in to do full on exorcisms. Not sure who you call these days for an exorcism?

Not HMRC.

Being evil would require a degree of intelligence, organisation and planning that they simply don't possess

Oi! I resemble that remark!

Not sure who you call these days for an exorcism?

It's OK, they've got an App for that now.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jdmdeveloper.exorcism&hl=en

On the upside she got a few days off each year when certain kids were deemed to be possessed by the Devlil and they got someone in to do full on exorcisms

I'm pretty easy going on this subject but WTAF?

Could they not just have an inset day, or a snow closure day like a normal school?

She nearly got expelled a few times arguing with teachers brainwashing kids about the evils of using contraception and other such silly things.

On the upside she got a few days off each year when certain kids were deemed to be possessed by the Devlil and they got someone in to do full on exorcisms.

I went to a RC school and never witnessed or heard of anything like that.

Never got "brainwashed" about contraception and never heard of any child being exorcised.

Where did she do her A levels? Central America?

On the upside she got a few days off each year when certain kids were deemed to be possessed by the Devlil and they got someone in to do full on exorcisms. Not sure who you call these days for an exorcism?

I call bullshit.

It's called exorcism, and there are no circumstances under which it would be administered in the way you describe. None whatsoever. And I don't mean that just on a technicality; what you say is not even close to true.

My son goes to a non denominational school,but he still seems to get some religious nonsense. He came home the other day telling us jc could walk on water, so I showed him the you tube video of dynamo walking across the Thames. I said next time his teachers talk about jc he could ask them whether dynamo is related to him.

We used to get exorcised most days at my school. Football at lunch time and PE on Friday evenings.

I said next time his teachers talk about jc he could ask them whether dynamo is related to him.

Because I'm sure they've never heard that one before.

Why can't these things just be discussed and explored in thoughtful, intelligent terms? I mean, if you see it as simple myth, then fine; but do you sit down and make sub-par jokes about Odysseus?

Someone will make one now, just wait and You'll (e) see (s)

She nearly got expelled a few times arguing with teachers brainwashing kids about the evils of using contraception and other such silly things.

The brainwashing about contraception is a nightmare. Every one of the families at my daughters catholic school have got 10, 11, or 12 kids. If only people could see past their unquestioning religious ideology and consider the alternatives

The Catholic religion puts great store in education, that is why the best schools are often Catholic and in general standards are high.

OP if you don't want your child to go there you should reject the place, as stated above there will be many who would take her place.

I am an atheist. I'd not want my kids at a school openly affiliated to RC. I'd be happy with C of E/Quaker/Sikh. Not sure about Islaam.

Contraception. Most modern Catholics in the UK/Europe accept contraception as a reality of modern life. They certainly do in Ireland where sex before marriage is as common as anywhere else. Quite intersting the anti-Catholic views here are you the same posters who would "beat the sht" out of anyone who came near your 16yr old daughter ?

but do you sit down and make sub-par jokes about Odysseus

Seems like a sense of Homer failure to me.

[b]Saxonrider[/b] welcome to the internet... people are allowed to disagree with your views and make jokes... and you seem to be being a teensy bit judgmental today 😉

but do you sit down and make sub-par jokes about Odysseus?

Alright Chuck? Scylla 'ere! Surprise Surprise!

The Catholic religion [s]puts great store in education[/s] [i]fiddles their application procedure (which is already biased towards pushy middle class parents)[/i], that is why the best schools are often Catholic and in general [s]standards[/s] [i]results[/i] are high.

FTFY