[Closed] Casinos. Last night's "real time" report.

Lad I worked with would blow £300 in a lunch hour. He was convinced you had to chance losing big to win big.

Trouble is he lost big way more often than he won big.

Another lad I knew was horribly addicted to the slot machines. Got into massive debts on them. The machine was always about to pay out big - it never did though.

I have a bit of fun playing the of bit of online poker but luckily have never got addicted to it. Horrible mess to get into.

I enjoy it too as an occasional luxury but I agree, you have to treat it as entertainment. Galling to watch the oriental guys wallop down hundreds in one round of roulette.

There's only one winner at a casino. As for online casinos, I can't understand how anyone cannot see how it is fixed, especially if you are playing the house. They will only allow you to win enough to keep you interested or addicted.

I like the very odd flutter on sport, rugby in fact, and that is only if I meet up with mates to watch it in the pub. We generally do a couple of quid on 1st try scorer for each match. So that might be £5 on a few Saturday's per season. International fixtures, cup finals, etc.

Online casinos are a total con. I was playing black jack for free for a laugh and I was winning lots ..

Played with real cash.. Lost about 5 hands in the trot immediately and walked away.

Casino is good fun on occasion, although I only play black jack. Been about 5 times.. Only once have I not left significantly richer than I went in... Well.. 100 quid or so!

wrightyson - Member
I played at the same table and whilst I was betting my 3 quid a hand he was chucking 20 quid a hand in.
Gamble responsibly?

Another lad I knew was horribly addicted to the slot machines. Got into massive debts on them. The machine was always about to pay out big - it never did though.

And the worst thing to me of stories like this is the machines have a sticker on them that actually tells you how much in percentage they pay out 🙁

There's only one winner at a casino. As for online casinos, I can't understand how anyone cannot see how it is fixed, especially if you are playing the house. They will only allow you to win enough to keep you interested or addicted.

It's not "fixed" it's just the same as pub machines. There is a ROI percentage on the games online and machines in pubs. It tells you right next to where you put the money in on most machines. 70% payout or similar, It's telling you that for every £1 you can expect a 70% return or 70p.

I've told that to friends playing these, they still willfully ignore basic mathematics and think they can "beat" them.

Jackpot slots are a bit different because of the massive payout, but hitting that is winning the lottery unlikely.

Whilst it's not my scene I do 'get' the appeal of going to Vegas or a proper Casino to play at being Charlie big potatoes, if you can afford it then fair play.

What I have trouble comprehending is the appeal of sitting in a grimy betting shop pumping cash into a slot machine or even sitting at home in your pants pissing money up the wall.

What a total waste.

The CEO of Bet365 was paid 217 million last year.

This can't go on, surely.

They’re not for me, I enjoy playing cards with mates but the casino sucks all the fun out of it, it’s ultra fast, clinical and joyless in my view.

I have enjoyed a day out at the races and at the dogs.

It was exactly that a day out with friends, a meal and a few drinks and only took as much money as I could afford to lose.

Casinos and betting shops hold no appeal to me as I am a pessimist so expect to lose. Most gamblers are the opposite and either believe they are lucky or have worked out a system often contrary to evidence.

I'd occasionally, as in once a year, go to the races with my dad and take a fiver (this was back in the late 1970s) as spending for the day. Once that was gone, that was it. Since about the age of twenty or so I can't remember placing a single bet, not even works/office sweepstake on the Grand National.

No doubt that 70% figure has been worked out as the minimum needed to keep the punter's interest, a "win" every so often makes them forget all the losses.

The CEO of Bet365 was paid 217 million last year.

This can't go on, surely.

I think it will.

In 2012, Coates was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) for services to the community and business. [9]

the son of a friend ran up huge debts gambling. my friend ended up selling his house to pay them off and keep the very unpleasant people away. wrecked his son's marriage as well.

but money talks

It's amazing the peer pressure people try and put on you as well.

I've been on a number of corporate race days and I'd usually take £20 or something - chuck a couple of quid in the rank outsider for shits and giggles - that kind of thing. Made it a bit of fun.

I was almost sneered at by my colleagues who were happy to wax anywhere between £500-1000 but they were 'men' you see.

Just didn't get the attitude toward me for merely being sensible.

It's just another tax on the stupid and desperate.

My friend used to work in a bookies, every punter was a liar, to her, their families and ultimately to themselves. Anything other than an office sweepstake is a mug's game.

It's not "fixed" it's just the same as pub machines. There is a ROI percentage on the games online and machines in pubs

This can't go on, surely.

Seeing as it's worth 14 billion (and rising) to the exchequer it very much will go on.
It's not gambling it's 'gaming', just another tax on the stupid.

We go for 'lads' weekends on the lash in Torquay a few times a year, my mate is a member of the casino & he can sign in guests for 24hrs - I've been in numerous times (free food & drink 😉 ) but I've not once gambled anything there, its very plush & full of well dressed couples, rich widows & Japanese businessmen early on but go back later at night & it's tragic sight of desperation.

So, err... it's fixed then?

No, it's not. I'm not sure what to say, I'd advise you not to play them.

[quote=giantalkali ]My friend used to work in a bookies, every punter was a liar, to her, their families and ultimately to themselves. Anything other than an office sweepstake is a mug's game.

I'm still several hundred quid up on the bookies, but then the last time I laid a bet was in 2008, when it turned out the "inside" knowledge I had on the GB performance at the Olympics did genuinely put me ahead. I even found an arb on Ben Ainsley which netted me £50 or so (I didn't quite have the balls to bet the house on it, I think I had to "risk" £500 to make that back).

Casinos are a different matter - a "leisure pursuit" you pay for, unless you're good enough to count cards at blackjack and not get caught doing so.

Mate of mine used to be terrible with the fruit machines in the pub. Would spend £50 to win the £40 jackpot then lose the £40. Got to the point I told him I wasn’t going for a drink anymore as I was bored of sitting on my own while he played the machines. He’s much better now though.

Never been a gambler, never seen the point. Known many though and non of them are rich including those that ‘had people at the stables’. Every casino I have been in has been a desperate place full of sad looking people.

unless you're good enough to count cards at blackjack and not get caught doing so.

Mate of mine plays a little blackjack. He works on the basis that the house wins on average against the players at the table - so what he does is play against themi. Couple of times I've seen him play he's come out in front but not by tons.

There is also the fact that he's still got a decent sized mortgage that makes me question his overall success rate! One time in vegas he was up by 300 bucks after about 8 hours play. His job at home means he earns about 300 quid a day...

carbonfibreismadebyaliens - Member

So, err... it's fixed then?

No, it's not. I'm not sure what to say, I'd advise you not to play them.

Yes they are. Most of the folk dumb enough to play them do so in the hope of winning big, but with a 70% payout they are not a pure game of chance and "fixed" in the house's favour.

Don't worry, I won't be playing them as I understand how statistics and probability work (and I'm not a mug...).

It's an unfair competition really. There was an R4 program where they were talking about the work they put in to making the slots feel you were about to win, everything from the colours and sorts of graphics to the slope of the glass in front. Nothing that you would think makes a difference to you personally but they have bulk stats on their side

But you can't ban it. Ban it and apart from being accused of being a nanny state it will go underground where there is no regulation at all 🙁

Advertising should be banned though. Stop it being cool.

I like playing Roulette in the casino but I have an addictive personality so I don't go very often to them and when I do, I take in £20 only, spend that and any winnings are a bonus.

Seeing some other people happily throw what would be a weeks wage to me on a colour and not flinch when they lose makes you think where the money comes from.

Mate of mine plays a little blackjack. He works on the basis that the house wins on average against the players at the table - so what he does is play against themi.

This doesn't make sense. In a casino you play against the dealer. If the dealer busts, everyone left in wins.

The casinos took a while to catch on but that was 30 years plus back

Most Vegas casinos now use a constant shuffle which defeats counting. Counting cards relies on knowing the balance of high cards vs low cards left in the shoe and betting big when it's in favour of the players. Lots of 10s and Aces left in the shoe benefit the player, but it's marginal - the swing is in the range of a 1% casino advantage to a 1% player advantage hence the need to be betting thousands per hand to make money, and playing for a decent amount of time too.

My friend taught himself card counting on his train commute using an app - you just need to be fast enough to keep up with the deal. When we played, the dealers knew he was doing it as he'd increase his bet for a positive count, but quite frankly an increase from $10 to $20 didn't have them worried.

Perfect basic strategy on old rules (dealer hitting soft 17, blackjack 3:2, doubles after splits etc) minimises the house advantage to 0.5%ish. Our Vegas approach was always to play basic strategy, minimum bets at a table with a fun dealer and players, and drink beer as fast as we could. Paying just the $1 tip per drink vs $5 at a bar was the real advantage of blackjack.

Stop it being cool.

It isn't.

Years ago I worked away a bit, bloke I worked with was addicted to pub fruit machines, spent a fortune, it ended in a divorce. I never understood why he didn't just buy a machine and build a bar at home.

Ages back a friend's brother was banned from many of the local pubs as one too many nights the machines that he was "watching" would be hit by some lucky bystander, and a punch-up would ensue. When he could be undisturbed he'd keep an eye on the rollers, and literally leap over chairs to get to it when he saw a particular result, he'd win nearly all the time, as he'd worked out the subtle signs the machine was going to spill. Gambling and alcohol are not happy bedfellows

Online gambling is a hidden epidemic in his country - I count sites aimed at bored housewives (e.g. foxy bingo etc) as the most cynical.
The games aren’t “bingo” they are complex multi-line slots like you get in the bookies.

I enjoy a game of poker (in person rather than online) so have been to the casino a few times in my life. I generally agree with the sentiments above. They can be horrible places.

When I was a teenager at the fair, some older mates came up behind me and said oh this thing is going to pay out - and then proceeded to sink another £5 of my money and I won £50. I never bothered to go any further and find out how they knew, but maybe things were different with machines then anyway.

I think the solution to this is education (like most social ills) kids need to be shown the connection between probabilities and gambling, and how the advertising is set up to to screw you over. Its a PSHE issue much like mortgages, credit, newspapers etc.

They can be horrible places.

Agree on that, went to a conference in a Vegas Casino, placed smelled of piss as the true addicts don't leave the machines for anything 🙁

It's just another tax on the stupid and desperate.

a tax on people with an addictive personality and/or desperate (not necessarily stupid)

It's just another tax on the stupid and desperate.

This is harsh, it's not necessarily stupidity, it's more ignorance and emotional issues. Some of us are lucky to have been gifted or given the ability to avoid it.
I think the gambling industry is morally suspect, preying on the less fortunate and unwary.

a tax on people with an addictive personality

Most Professional opinion that I’ve seen suggests that there is no such thing

Most Professional opinion that I’ve seen suggests that there is no such thing

Whether that is true or not does not mean that gambling victims do not deserve help, protection, and sympathy.

Agreed * and whist we can all see why its "stupid" to gamble addiction does not respect intelligence so lets have a little empathy as its just "luck" its not us and hep the people

* Gambling is an intermittent reinforcement schedule and anyone who experiences such contingencies will do the behaviour more often as the reward is unpredictable- yours the behaviourist

Junkyard are you actually behaviourist? That is interesting - what is your job then?

Stop it being cool. -
It isn't.

It's a good question though as to when we need to be saved from ourselves and is that the state acting as nanny or society (whatever that is) deciding to protect itself from another predator picking off the weakest

Maybe cool isn't the right word then

Whether that is true or not does not mean that gambling victims do not deserve help, protection, and sympathy.

Agree totally.

But suggesting that’s its due to “addictive personality” seems a little bit too close to victim blaming to me.

Like, it was inevitable that a particular person would self destruct eventually, due to their personality, so nothing could help.

But suggesting that’s its due to “addictive personality” seems a little bit too close to victim blaming to me.

Ahh I see.

Yes they are. Most of the folk dumb enough to play them do so in the hope of winning big, but with a 70% payout they are not a pure game of chance and "fixed" in the house's favour.

Don't worry, I won't be playing them as I understand how statistics and probability work (and I'm not a mug...).

but with a 70% payout they are not a pure game of chance and "fixed" in the house's favour.

Sigh. Who TF said a -EV game was a "game of chance". Your reading comprehension is terrible.

I put £1 in a slot machine in about '92 and won £100 without knowing what the hell was going on. I've never gambled since, so I'll always be up now. Moving on from being glib, the stories you hear of desperation and folk losing money they can ill afford to are heart breaking.

Find the whole industry sickening. The amount of advertising on sky sports for example is quite saddening. The most worrying type of gambling I see more & more of is the phone apps. I've sat with work colleagues glued to their phones getting live updates on odds, cash out options, offers to increase the stake etc etc. Recon it will be a real problem in a few years if it isn't already.

My old boss used to phone app gamble. He was a moody bastard at the best of times, seldom did it improve his demeanour. He was a bellend though. Went to the US, used Spotify roaming for three weeks, was surprised when his phone bill was hundreds of pounds.

Gambling is a tax on the dim witted

Two Stories... both brief

I used to sub-manage a pub and got a formal written warning from the brewery as some of the regulars complained that I would constantly be winning on the fruit machines and must have been fixing them. What I was actually doing was watching them play during the day and making a mental note if they were up or down generally. If they were significantly down I would put a couple of quid in and more often than not would win.... purely based on the odds of paying out.

The second story involves a free sign up bonus to an online casino. £10 free, no deposit. Played a bit, won a bit, lost a bit, down to last 50p. Doubled up on Blackjack a few times and then roulette. Moved onto the slots as I couldn't withdraw the money until I'd played something like 500 times the £10. S0d it, just play at £10 a spin!..kept winning (well often). Upped it to £50 a spin. 😯 At one point I had over £3k in the bank, but it wasn't really my money as it was the free bet stakes. Went down to about £900 all playing for what I thought was tokens.
Thought I'd check to see if I could withdraw. I could. Small print says can only with draw £50 of free bet winning, but only after I paid £10 into the account to activate a paypal withdrawal. Fine. One spin and a £70 win. Lets see how much I could withdraw. It let me withdraw over £900!! All paid and spent now! Now if only I'd withdrawn at £2k.... oh well. Was never my money... well it was..
They keep emailing me with all these extra new offers as a high stakes player etc.. bonus etc..
Ive resisted. Ive closed by account, changed the password to something random.. I'll never go back... but it is tempting.....that's why I changed all my details, I'm sure I could reactivate the account if I really wanted to, but trying to make it as difficult as possible. Its scary. If I'd know I was gambling that amount every 5 seconds I would have bottled it.
Never again.

Many years ago I worked in a casino and one of the most unpleasant things (there were many) about that job was taking money from people who clearly couldn't afford it.

Not been in a casino since I stopped working in one over 20 years ago.

There needs to be a national self exclusion program, with actual real-life criminal penalties for companies that allow people to gamble once they've put themselves on it.