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Noticing this gaining traction in that it isn't just random posts on Facebook groups anymore but actually people I know.
Has this taken over now all the nonsense around COVID has lost momentum?
Anyone got a load of £20 notes shoved under the mattress? I feel that if the global online banking world collapsed I'd be better off with beans and weapons...
I've probably got about £100 in cash, mainly because I sold some bike bits and haven't had occasion to use it yet!
Nope. Mainly because I have no idea what you're asking about. Probably a social media phenomenon as you say.
As a shop keeper we are charged when you use your credit card.
When there is no cash YOU will be charged to use your card.
I'm not a fan of the cashless society drift myself but no idea what conspiracies you speak of?
It’s mad the sort of things people that you assumed were fairly sorted and intelligent get sucked into these days. Recently in the pubs with some cycling friends and mentioned that I’d seen some bonkers cloud seeding/ contrail rubbish on social media and one person sticks their hand up and says that’s not rubbish, we’ all being duped. Within 5 minutes one who’s a successful businessman with kids in public school and a wife who’s a gp says he’s voted remain and is a bona fide trump supporter, thinks trumps record on the economy is better than Biden and that truss was misunderstood! Another outwardly sensible guy I know says the world health organisation are taking over the world and need stopping. I’m half expecting a flat earther to come out soon!
The only conspiracy I can believe in is that the Chinese / Russians et al are spreading conspiracy theories via a largely unregulated social media ecosystem to seed general discord and mistrust of governments in the West.
I’ve not even seen cash for ages. It’s just a PITA and something extra to carry about and lose. Don’t miss it at all. As for shopkeepers being charged, how long did cashing up used to take compared to now? Taking the bagged up cash to the post office, messing about with small change etc.
The only conspiracy I can believe in is that the Chinese / Russians et al are spreading conspiracy theories via a largely unregulated social media ecosystem to seed general discord and mistrust of governments in the West.
That's a really valid point. They are constantly and consistently up to all manner of ****ery in the digital space.
There's also an irony sitting within their disinformation as a cashless, digital currency would play to their desire to control their populations even more.
I took €200 across to France in case I needed cash at any point. And came back with €200.
I carry an "emergency" £10 note in my bike saddlebag and I think it's more likely to be used as a tyre boot.
Cash just doesn't feature in my day to day life whatsoever.
It does the rounds every now and then. Usually it’s the pile of £50 notes and nonsense about it still worth £50 when various shops and trades have used it. Completely ignoring the fact it has to be declared and it costs money, time and trust to take the cash to a bank.
There’s a reason many places are now card only, it eliminates the risk loss, people spend more, practically everyone has a card or device to pay with and you don’t need to worry about having the right amount.
The bar I occasionally helped in sales rocketed when we added cards, it costs very little to run and use. The card sales or at least 90% over cash and people rarely even mention cash.
There’s also an irony sitting within their disinformation as a cashless, digital currency would play to their desire to control their populations even more. ?
Also, particularly with places like China, I can see crypto (as in a digital yuan rather than for example bitcoin) becoming a thing so that every single transaction ever is traceable. Here I think it will be a bit less of an issue but again I can see the government pushing cashless as a way of helping cut down on tax evasion, without considering what a pain in the arse getting rid of cash will be for a lot of people.
There are loads of different card companies out there.
Since covid, the competition has really squeezed the rates.
The bank charges me a very similar amount to pay cash into a business account, as the card companies charge me in fees.
However, a lot depends on your turnover, if you are turning over £100k+, then the fees are very low.
Debit cards are cheaper than credit cards. I pay 2.5p on each transaction, then about 0.8% on the amount of the transaction.
So £20 will cost less than 20p in fees.
There are a number of places round here that are cash only. They don’t get my business.
I don’t even take cards out with me most of the time.
surely the card fee thing is offset by cashing up/banking fees, unless it’s not being declared?
The generalist..
We have an exceptionally good deal ..
1p transaction fee
0.8 credit card
0.6 debit
Business cards and some foreign are 2%
We probably pay around 3k a year in fees.
"I carry an “emergency” £10 note in my bike saddlebag and I think it’s more likely to be used as a tyre boot."
I used my emergency £10 from the bike last week as the pub was affected by the big outage and was cash only. I was in a cash only pub last year. No cash no pint.
I use a mixture of cash and card. I get annoyed at card only places. Only use them when no choice like a local wedding venue for example or the SEC.
Been dying to know if the local takeaway has a valid point or is just dodging tax.
Tax dodge pure and simple. Cash also costs as you need to float the till and carry small denomination change as well as cash up and bank the cash.
There's a small group in society who genuinely rely on cash to budget but when 85% of transactions are card its not many. I manage hundreds of payment points, even on the ones that give change 85% is still card. When the cash part goes out of service (not uncommon lots of complex moving parts) we see almost 100% switch to card so for most people using cash is a stubborn choice not a necssity.
When there is no cash YOU will be charged to use your card.
I'd rather pay the fees than piss about with coins.
The card reader I use charges 1.75% on each transaction but I have to wait 2 working days for the cash to reach my account.
Aha. Found someone I can ask…. Can you tell us what rate the card sharps charge please. Been dying to know if the local takeaway has a valid point or is just dodging tax.
I have a little launderette and two methods of contactless payment
SumUp I use for face to face payments only take 1.79% and will pay out daily if you like
The system I have installed for self service use charges 3% plus £12 per month per terminal (that I had to buy at around £450 each) and does not pay out until half way through the following month. Somewhat more pricey
I like the convenience of card payments but wouldn’t like to see the fees increase.
Cash handling creates costs for banks as well. The more business cash being banked the more staff etc needed to handle it. Those costs are passed onto customers of the bank one way or another
I prefer cash. Research has shown that us oldies need to use our mental faculties regularly or we lose them. Working out what notes and coins to use to make up the price does this. So I have science on my side!
But I would use a card in a busy bar as it is less hassle for the staff, so my friendly local bar person tells me.
Do you take cash to the bank every day? If not that also takes at least 2 days to reach your account.
... Personally I don't take a wallet with me most of the time - only take a wallet/cards when it would be a massive ball ache if phone payment wouldn't work - on a big night out etc. I just use my phone. I have an emergency couple of tenners in my climbing bag tho - and when I'm out on my bike
I got my van serviced last week and did a bank transfer to Dave them the charges for using a card. I'm happy to pay cash when using small businesses. My friend owns a cafe and their income is shockingly low. They rarely take holidays and provide a really good service to the community so if paying in cash helps then it's not a big deal for me. I like using cash as it helps me keep track of what I'm spending, especially on holiday.
I use a mixture of cash and card. I get annoyed at card only places.
Why do you get annoyed about card-only when you use cards?
As a shop keeper we are charged when you use your credit card.
When there is no cash YOU will be charged to use your card
As a shop keeper you are charged to bank cash.
When you don't take card we are charged a hell of a lot more to withdraw cash.
So your point is?
This isn't a cash vs card thing, it's just another path to the enshitification of everything.
I'm not convinced that there is a master shadowy cabal ruling the world, I do believe that a lot of nefarious stuff is covered up.
We have loads of local shops that flat out refuse cards even though they have the facilities. Some of them I'd use on a regular basis but I don't go at all because I don't carry cash, and even if I had notes on me, I'm not breaking into them in return for a pocket full of 20p's. I'd happily have the card processing cost passed onto me for the convenience.
Shop owners must be aware they're losing customers and that that must greatly outweigh the cost of processing, so I can only assume they're way too far gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole, or it's a tax dodge that might have some financial benefit to them.
Big business, government and tech companies like electronic money. Its easy to track, provides plenty of data and is extremely easy to charge fees on - basically very easy to control.
For the customer there are also advantages but also disadvantages - the prime one being its easy to lose control of your spending and get into debt. This is also an advantage to business, a massive massive massive one.
Its also easier to be defrauded - people seem to take much less care with electronic transactions than if they were handing over a wad of notes.
I've not read any of the conspiracy theories but I suspect there is a grain of truth in them - there is a huge push towards a cashless society whilst this may suit some people others will be marginalised - probably those who are already vulnerable. It will create more fraud (already at an all time high I saw in the news the other day) and ultimately it will make fin tech companies even more money. Huge outages will also happen to the detriment of consumers data etc etc
I think we have gone slightly too far down the electronic money route and would prefer the situation about 5 or so years ago when we didn't have quite so much untested 'innovation' and cash was accepted everywhere if desired.
Cant remember the last time i used cash
I pay everything by card, under £100 pay on debit card, over £100 i pay on the credit card and clear the balance come pay day, been doing that for nearly 20 years
The ex girlfriend's mum always used to pay pretty much everything with her credit card and thats over 30 years ago
Even at work we now have a bank account that we can pay money in to for collections etc... as everyone was fed up of taking £10 out of a cash machine, then having to spend some to split it down to stick £2-£5 in a collection and then be left with the change
Takeaway near me is cash or PayPal only... Has to be a tax thing.
I'm at a festival all weekend and everything is card only, must surely be easier for them as you're not having to carry and count out change.
... disadvantages ... the prime one being its easy to lose control of your spending and get into debt.
Every transaction is recorded and itemised for you. Maybe this applies to some people, but personally I feel the opposite is true.
There’s also an irony sitting within their disinformation as a cashless, digital currency would play to their desire to control their populations even more.
They dont have to let their people see the disinformation though.
China is one of the top countries for adopting cashless payments to the extent the government has actually had to push back a bit since it was becoming a problem for the elderly and foreign visitors.
Like a lot of the countries with a less developed banking sector a mobile app companies have evolved into payment providers. For China its Alipay and WeChat with the latters name giving an indication of where it came from.
So yes its surveillance heaven. They can have a look at your public and private chats and then what you are spending money on.
must surely be easier for them as you’re not having to carry and count out change.
I think the last time I used cash was at a festival where they have the defence of a really, really crap signal.
I do have some emergency cash tucked away in my camelbak etc but cant remember last time I used it.
I also carry £10 "just in case"
Plus some change should I need to use a loo that needs cash (if a suitable bush is not available)
Otherwise my phone is used for almost everything even though the fingerprint to enable Google Pay can be a pain in the arse at times.
So yes its surveillance heaven. They can have a look at your public and private chats and then what you are spending money on.
How do they know what you are spending your money on?
We sell fine china, artwork, bags, cuddly toys, games, ornaments, kitchenware, tourist tat and loads more.
When you make a card payment. nowhere is it recorded what you have actually bought.
I'm still not clear what the "cashless conspiracy" actually is. Banking/businesses/governments making it easier to operate without cash? It's pretty over for a "conspiracy"...
Money's a made up concept anyway, whether minted or digital, does it really matter?
"Every transaction is recorded and itemised for you. Maybe this applies to some people, but personally I feel the opposite is true."
Some people is most people I'm afraid. Huge swathes of the population struggle with numbers, organisation of finances, budgeting, understanding interest rates and simply switch off when confronted with lists of transactions. There are also many people who if given the chance will spend more than they earn without a plan to repay it. Cash makes keeping track very easy and spending more than you have very difficult. This is before we even get on to those who are elderly and unable to transition to new technology, those who have severe dyslexia etc
As I said for some people (i.e you and to be honest me) electronic money is super easy - I basically just carry a phone around with me most of the time but to take cash out of the mix would be a bad idea.
It is a conspiracy simply because whoever invents the most popular system makes lots of money from transactions. This is why it's an area open to constant change and cashless innovation and isn't about you at all. They'd rather you didn't use cash 🙂
One of this very parish is a full on cashless society conspiracy loon… can’t wait to see how this goes down.
chair/brew/biscuits on standby.
I’ve been carrying the same £5 note around in the back of my phone since Covid. I got excited the other day when a sign at the surgery said their card reader was broken and I thought I was going to be able to get rid of it and the large collection of shrapnel in my glove box. Turned out they fixed it, bah!
I distinctly remember being in Korea a couple of years before Covid and watching their cashless society in operation and thinking, that’ll never catch on in the UK. Turns out a pandemic makes that and video calls perfectly normal.
I’ve got no time for shops that I can’t use my iPhone in now, no matter how small.
Tradesman here, when you invariably get asked the ‘how much for cash’ question people are usually shocked when you say 50 quid more as I’ve got to waste my time trying to find a bank to pay it in. I hate being paid in cash
I haven't really used cash for a decade. Probably more than that. Sweden has pivoted to being almost 100% cash free. Only cash I see is when the alcoholic over the road pays me for the sewage services, even so, she paid by cash transfer (swish) this year.
The cash only tills at the large supermarkets nearest to me are only open on Wednesday (pensioners discount day). The little local corner shop only takes about £80-100 a day in cash. They are trying to get customers on to weekly/monthly accounts.
Fraud is down, because we actually have (mostly) decent personal banking regulations. Tax evasion is down. Virtually no one gets paid cash anymore.
There was close to a riot a couple of years ago at the local farmers market when the organisers WiFi went down and the 100+ traders all had to try and get their mobile hot spots working, basically 4 massive barns full of stalls 15 km from anywhere. No mobile signal worth speaking of!
Don't miss it at all. Even when all the banks went down 3(?) years ago. I could still do my shopping, there was just a transaction limit. I was shopping for 5 at the time and it didn't impact me so no idea what the limit was.
One of this very parish is a full on cashless society conspiracy loon
If that's me, then I'm guilty 🙂
It's been shown that the rise in cashless transactions leads to increased impulse buys (who hasn't got a shed full of online impulse bike bits) and an increase in fast junk food consumption.
Cashless transactions also cause problems for the vulnerable in society who might not have the necessary card, app, memory for a PIN number, etc. I've lost count of the times that my mum has had her card cancelled/PIN renewed
Some people is most people I’m afraid.
Show your working?
"Some people" is some people. There will always be people like my elderly neighbour who when quoted for a replacement guttering in metres replied "I don't know what that is," but at this juncture it's increasingly becoming wilful belligerence.
Our grandchildren's kids are going to regard moving bits of paper about to pay for things like today's Gen-Z look at us when we tell them there were only three TV channels and we had to rush home to catch our favourite shows or we'd miss them until they were rerun a couple of years later.
Tradesman here, when you invariably get asked the ‘how much for cash’ question people are usually shocked when you say 50 quid more as I’ve got to waste my time trying to find a bank to pay it in. I hate being paid in cash
Not a tradesman but when selling something and folk ask for a discount for buying in cash they don’t like it when I quote a slightly higher price.
It’s been shown that the rise in cashless transactions leads to increased impulse buys (who hasn’t got a shed full of online impulse bike bits) and an increase in fast junk food consumption.
Source with verified data or I’m calling bollocks on that one. I’d wager impulse buying increased due to the internet and fast deliveries. Same for junk food consumption with Deliveroo and Just Eat. Easier to pay without cash for that. In fact impossible for the former. So I’d imagine cashless isn’t the reason for either, convenience is.
It’s been shown that the rise in cashless transactions leads to increased impulse buys (who hasn’t got a shed full of online impulse bike bits) and an increase in fast junk food consumption.
Shown where?
Cashless transactions also cause problems for the vulnerable in society who might not have the necessary card, app, memory for a PIN number, etc. I’ve lost count of the times that my mum has had her card cancelled/PIN renewed
Cashless transactions causes problems for those to whom it is new. The kids growing up with this system today, it's always been this way.
How do you get cash in the first place without the necessary card? A cash machine requiring a necessary card is 1960s technology. If you can't remember four digits, you probably shouldn't be out shopping unaccompanied.
I’ve seen a local scrupulous looking/sounding (not going into that….) builder type person come into a local post office, give a wad of cash to them and asked for it to be put on one of those one for all cards (very casually too as if he does it regularly).
As a self employed person doing everything by the book and being utterly ripped for tax, I’d like to see that firmly stamped out. Clever loophole I’d never have thought of, for sure…
If that’s me, then I’m guilty 🙂
iIt wasn’t you, and tbh, your objections are pretty logical and within the realms of normal concerns, not lunatic at all. (I’m 100% behind cashless BTW, cash is a total PITA for me and my family).
The person I was referring to was more ‘liizard-overlords controlling our minds’ grade conspiracy…
I have friends who are quite into conspiracy theories which drives me mad. However, I totally accept that there are pros and cons for both cash and cashless. What I dislike is people who under-play the obvious costs of using cash - businesses needing tills, business owners needing to spend time going to the bank to lodge money, etc. For example, running a cash till on an easyJet flight would be a huge hassle. On the other hand again, some small businesses pay a lot annually for card systems.
One point I’d like to make is that I’ve spent much of my life travelling around the developing world, appointing distributors for industrial equipment manufacturers. When assessing a new territory, one of the very simple measures of how developed an economy is, is the amount of cash transactions. And it’s very, very clear; I’d even say undeniable - an economy with large amounts of cash means large amounts of tax fraud. I find that the conspiracy theorists seem to dramatically under play the fax fraud angle to using cash. And yet, I suspect that tax evasion is the main reason behind 90+% of the occasions I’ve ever been asked to pay for something in cash.
anyway, that’s just my 2 pennies worth,
for it to be put on one of those one for all cards
Why wouldn't he just spend the cash?
You don't even need to remember a pin these days, contactless up to 100 unless it's a phone, then it's limitless I think or at least so high I've never hit it.
I actually went back to cash 2 weeks ago whilst in Crete for some reason (nearly everywhere took cards but some times they pulled a face if you used one, think that's more to do with tax avoidance in Greece though, any one remember Grexit). It was a pain and didnt help me budget, handful of notes felt like loads until it wasn't. For the very small number who really rely on cash to budget a basic debit card works well, just need some form of constantly displaying the account balance. For those who can't manage contactless should they really be allowed out on their own, once you've been shown once or twice there's no mystery.
Of the 85% of transactions on our payment points, 70% are contactless, 15% phone and a dwindling 15% chip and pin.
I look forward to the day dodgy takeaways and sole traders are effectively forced to declare all their earnings.
While we are at it. Identikit Turkish barbers. Cash only,
there are three in my fairly small rural market town. Has to be money laundering right?
We used cash in Crete as well a few weeks ago. In restaurants you'd normally get a free drink or dessert if paying cash which you wouldn't get if paying by card and shops would knock 5-10 euros off if paying cash. I suspect this is due to tax avoidance as there is a huge Greek government push to electronic transactions and all small businesses must use the same government mandated EPOS system.
asked for it to be put on one of those one for all cards
What's a "one for all card"?
Noticing this gaining traction in that it isn’t just random posts on Facebook groups anymore but actually people I know.
I mentioned this last week after the big system outage - a load if folk started gloating how it undermined "the plot" to get rid of cash.
Sweden does not really use cash. Bank/card payments are the most usual thing for normal purchases and peer to peer cashless with Swish is really popular. There is just about no need to use cash and a lot of people don't take it (especially since you can send 'cash' directly to a person or a small business with Swish).
I use my local bank when I need to physically sign something (e-signature here is also a thing, even for big things) or when they invite me to a social thing to try and get me to invest more.
shops would knock 5-10 euros off if paying cash
Which I think is illegal under EU law, we got charged 3% when paying for car hire by card rather than cash, probably a tenner but again I think against the rules.
The two main reasons for using cash is criminal activity and sheer stubborness.
What I dislike is people who under-play the obvious costs of using cash – businesses needing tills, business owners needing to spend time going to the bank to lodge money, etc.
The other big cost that gets ignored is the nation needing to print/mint and manage physical cash. Even if you don't use cash, You're still paying for that via general taxation you know. Fundamentally the low level tax Dodgers are being funded in their endeavours by the rest of us mugs.
Proper, big league tax dodgers do it electronically now anyway, unless you actually believe people are still flying to the camels with suitcases full of cash...
Had to break out my emergency £20 stuffed in the back of my phone case today. Ran out of water on a ride so stopped at a village post office, who apparentlty couldn't take cards....
Normally have to use it once or twice a year, mainly when the local Pret's card readers are on the blink...
I generally avoid anywhere cash only as I assume they're just dodging tax.
unless you actually believe people are still flying to the camels with suitcases full of cash…
though the fingerprint to enable Google Pay can be a pain in the arse at times.
I didn't realise they took biometrics that seriously.
Cashless transactions also cause problems for the vulnerable in society who might not have the necessary card, app, memory for a PIN number, etc. I’ve lost count of the times that my mum has had her card cancelled/PIN renewed
Must be a nightmare when get to the cash point and can’t recall their PIN.
I didn’t realise they took biometrics that seriously.
Brings a whole new level to accidentally video calling someone.
I use my local bank when I need to physically sign something (e-signature here is also a thing, even for big things) or when they invite me to a social thing to try and get me to invest more.
Have re mortgaged using bank ID on my phone. Also bought a car a few years ago. (And more than one bike!)
we don’t pay to deposit cash.
Maybe not, but as pointed out that still costs time to count and take to the bank, you're still paying for it one way or another.
While we are at it. Identikit Turkish barbers. Cash only,
there are three in my fairly small rural market town. Has to be money laundering right?
Oh hell yes, see also vape shops and shops seemingly selling random unconnected nonsense.
I've just remembered that when we had to start keeping an eye on my MIL it was much better to give her a small amount of cash as she kept losing her bank card. She insisted on being able to go to the local Co-op and it was one of her few joys in life so it wouldn't have worked if we'd done all her shopping for her.
I'm a gardener and when I started, a lot of my income was in cash but as the banks have closed branches and COVID stopping people going out very few pay me in cash now.
This thread has reminded me that I need to go to the cashpoint on my way out later 🙂
I agree in some respects with the conspiracies. I object to anyone knowing how I spend my money. S*d off. A card tells someone where I am. Mind your own....
I'll take it to a greater scale . Big brother is........
Cash is easy to watch. When you have bought your two pints that tenner is mostly gone and you don't spend more. A card means three!
Cards make credit easier. The last thing we should want surely?
Was on holiday in Washington (USA, not Tyne and Wear...) and used some campsites which were cash only for self-registration.
Had to drive about 60km round trip to find a cash machine. Not impressed!
So, lesson learnt - take some cash (in various denominations) when camping in US back-country...and I guess that applies anyway "back-country" without the connectivity us city dwellers take for granted...
I'm happy not to carry cash around with me, when I did it wasn't massive amounts either - £20 at the most. I found if I had cash with me then I was very easy for me to spend it. Although contactless is brilliant, I don't seem to have the same spending urges (although I still spend far too much on rubbish!).
A local Chinese is cash-only, not long after lockdown lifted they accepted cards, lasted 3 months and went back to cash. Staff said the owners weren't happy at paying for transactions as it meant less to gamble with at the casino!
Afraid, I'm well into the belief that cash-only is some sort of tax dodge and shouldn't be encouraged - no real evidence of it though.
Was on holiday in Washington (USA
The US is a generation behind when it comes to payment cards. Even in cities there are plenty of places which take credit cards but not debit cards (or vice versa) and you've to swipe the card and then sign for it.