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I am officially done with my second hand car. It is clearly a Friday afternoon / national drugs at work week special and despite being young (not yet 6 years old), well loved mechanically and low mileage (<80k) it has broken down twice in the last two months.
I think it's time to try leasing or similar but I've only ever bought 3-6 year old cars, lavished them with care and kept them for donkeys years (and so far I have never had a car as pants as this one).
I know the way leases work but what I don't know is WHERE to look for a good deal without spending weeks and weeks trawling the net or dealers and what cars might give me the best (cheapest) deal for 20k a year.
Vehicle criteria if it helps...
Mid to Large estate preferably with roof rails
150hp or more as it will have to tow and carry heavier / high windage roof loads on occasion.
Manual and petrol for preference but doing 20k a year diesel is viable (just don't like it)
I will want to put a towbar on so I'm guessing a 3-4 year deal would be preferable.
I've reached a point in car ownership where I'll trade brand and desirability for pricing and practicality (because an E63AMG or similar is never going to be viable no matter how much I want one) particularly if I'm only borrowing it.
I know of Lings due to the infamous thread on here and drivethedeal.com where else that is reputable/big enough to be safe dealing with have people had good experiences with?
Nationwide Vehicle Contracts.
Skoda Octavia Estate? It's about as automotive 'beige carpet' as it gets. But rentals are usually cheap & they are reliable.
I'd look at 3 years, so it's under warranty.
There's a good thread on Pistonheads with most of the latest deals. You'll find links to all the usual websites to try
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=1713219
20k a year. Mid to Large estate.
This is what will cost. Lots.
This is what will cost. Lots.
Depends on your definition of lots, but a reasonable spec Octavia would be ~£300 a month to lease with that criterea.
My Superb was obviously overstock, I have a 35k mileage allowance & pay 288 a month for a Sportline with about 4k's worth of extras on it & 6 months up front. It was the cheapest deal by miles I could find.
Increasng the mileage adds on surprising little.
Matt-oab
Yes, sadly it will but having had two missed days from work in the lst two months and nearly 2k of unscheduled maintenance in the last six months the alternative is just as bad and it's blooming inconvenient and unhelpful to my work.
I've reached the point where I don't trust the car at all.
I don't know if down sizing would help and maybe putting up with less space but that knocks on to the family on regular long trips to see relatives.
I think you're going about it the right way. If you go into it with a specific model / spec in mind you're far less likely to get a good deal.
If you genuinely don't mind what the badge says or what it looks like - put yourself together a list of 'must haves' - size, engine type, auto, air-con or whatever and have a play around with some of the leasing companies. Run out models (aka models about the be replaced) are often really good value, new models without ready made audiences (a manufacturer trying a new segment with a new model) get loads of manufacture support (this is code for big discounts) and surprisingly fancy makes with high spec can be cheaper than more mainstream makes with lower spec because of greater 'support' and higher residual values.
For example for a while you could get a Golf R for £275 a month on a 3+23 basis that's a £30k car for 2 years for £7000 because VW supported them - if you paid cash for it and you didn't select a single extra you'd pay £30kin 2 years it's worth £20k - it'll cost you £10k to buy it.
Now, she is a bit marmite to say the least, but Lings Cars website is a great place to search for deals/prices, all in 1 place. Most sites seem to want all your details b4 they contact you, but you can surf away on Lings without any contact.
For an estate with rails, the A6 estate has amazing deals at the moment as a new model is due. Base spec is very good as it’s their luxury exec car. Cheaper than an A3/4 and Skoda/VW/Volvo/BM equivalents
I've used National Vehicle Solutions and Car Leasing Made Simple (AFL) previously with no significant issues and good communications etc. Ideally you will have a reliable local bodyshop / repairer for when the car needs to go back. Just ask them to fix it up to "lease standard" which usually costs very little. I've always had reasonable assessments at collection but some horror stories out there....
Biggest problem of course is comparing like for like across different sites. The only useful number in reality is TCO of the lease over the term, and you'll have to calculate that yourself. Also worth noting when services / tyres are likely to be due ..might be less of an issue on high mileages like yours, but handing back a car before 2/4 tyres and a service are due saves quite a bit. Can always return it early for little penalty before those costs come up.
Having said all that, my last lease (Passat Allroad) was a shocker..needed to have 5 separate trips to the garage for different faults within the 2 year lease. One of which took 5 weeks to repair. Just sayin'.
I'm on my third lease car. General method for finding is:
- Have a look at some of the lease brokers' offer pages - Ling, CVL, gateway2lease, vehiclesavers, etc. Stuff they're pushing is usually because (as described above) manufacturers want a lot of a particular car sold and are supporting them. I had a Golf R estate for 2 years because it was cheaper than any other Golf estate to lease at the time.
- if you find something suitable, get on contracthireandleasing.co.uk and whatcar.com, start comparing offers on that car.
- build a simple spreadsheet to work out total cost over the term - initial payment, monthlies, admin fees, etc. It can vary a lot, eg with VW lots of dealership groups have a leasing arm that can look more expensive but they charge low or no admin fee which can make them cheaper overall. If you need to get quotes for your preferred mileage, any options, etc I note it in there too.
- after a few hours you'll have worked out which is cheapest - go off and arrange with them.
Yep Simon's method is what I have done..... and dealerships will sometimes beat rates advertised on leasing sites so worth emailing a few and seeing what comes back. Worked for me once (I had forgotten about that) but the variation between dealers was massive.
Agreed. I have a very nerdy spreadsheet which I broke down to a PPM number, which was my absolute ownership cost over the next 3 years.
It's not a very interesting way to buy a car, granted, but it does ensure you get the best deal if you are viewing it as a commodity.
Good advice. Note though that they prefer it if you get a family member to take out the lease on your behalf, rather than doing it yourself.Now, she is a bit marmite to say the least, but Lings Cars website is a great place to search for deals/prices, all in 1 place.
Don’t discount the expensive brands they often work out cheaper to lease than the cheaper brands.
Look at PCP too. PCP is basically lease but I’ve always found the upfront payment to be much lower.
Get maintenance included too, I’ve saved literally £1,000’s on servicing and tyres
Don’t discount the expensive brands they often work out cheaper to lease than the cheaper brands.
Very much this the higher end one depreciate for less so you can get a better deal.
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Now, she is a bit marmite to say the least, but Lings Cars website is a great place to search for deals/prices, all in 1 place.
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Good advice. Note though that they prefer it if you get a family member to take out the lease on your behalf, rather than doing it yourself.
The best part is that the deposit is only £500 plus VAT
Look at PCP too. PCP is basically lease but I’ve always found the upfront payment to be much lower.
Very much this the higher end one depreciate for less so you can get a better deal.
This, just got a fully loaded ex demo 3'er touring M Sport LCI for less that the prices being flashed around in this thread. Yes there's a balloon, but only if you want to keep it.
Ling lease lings dragons den ling lease.
Just because I want wee to show up, I like her.
The Best lease deals (not pcp) are nearly always optimised around 8K miles a year, but the actual mileage you do is usually not limited. If you pick something with a low pence per mile penalty over the allowed mileage, it can still work out the best way to buy a new car. Usually half way though the lease you will get a call to discuss your mileage, and if it is significantly over, they may offer you a different deal that increases your monthly payment. If you are sure you will continue to do the same mileage, this can often work in your favour. The other thing to consider is that if you stick to the allowed mileage, most cars will not need to be serviced or new new tyres etc over the typical 2 year period. At 20K miles you will need to do both.
The best lease deals are much, much better than the best pcp deals. But.....you usually need to be flexible about the car, and know where to look for the best deals, rather than have something very specific in mind. You often need to act quickly too. The piston heads thread mentioned above is useful, if you can filter out the nonsense.
oh, and lease is brand new only, so pcp on a second hand car isn’t quite like for like.
Thanks all for your input.
I can't quite square the cheaper to lease an expensive German car thing though. Even a cooking model 3series seems to come in at £150 more a month than some of the less interesting brands (I've always fancied a 3 or 5 series but never been able to bring myself to pay the higher second hand price so was hopeful leasing might do it).
I am quite sad that it's come to this. I'm an old fashioned blighter when it comes to cars I like to own them, keep them tidy and for a long time but this car has genuinely broken my 20 year experience of look after it and it will look after you.
It's from a brand I had pretty much nothing but good words to say about the previous three cars I've had (and Mrs gd has had 3 good ones too) but this one is an utter lemon of the first order.
Merc, for example, stopped making cars that last some time ago. They decided that owners didn’t want to pay extra for something that lasts decades. Most manufacturers business model is to get people to buy a new one every couple of years, so that’s how they make them. The second hand market of older vehicles is really of very little interest to them.
Start with contracthireandleasing.com - a kayak of the car leasing world.
Allows you to pick and filter deals.
Then when have a deal try going direct to the dealer with it. You often get incentives above and beyond the brokers.
Further thank you. After an evening browsing using the mental-ness of Lings and some of the other recommendations I have now discovered that there is definitely stuff out there that hits my budget and minimum functional criteria but it's not necessarily what I thought it would be, which is fine.
Oddly, it seems 2WD SUVs are coming up a lot at good rates, which I guess is the residuals. Maybe I need to overcome my ideological objections to them, I maybe need to adopt a bit of this, I'd be the one on the right but no beard.
EDIT: Balls, how do you embed video now.
<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #222222; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">I can’t quite square the cheaper to lease an expensive German car thing though. Even a cooking model 3series seems to come in at £150 more a month than some of the less interesting brands (I’ve always fancied a 3 or 5 series but never been able to bring myself to pay the higher second hand price so was hopeful leasing might do it).</span>
Like I said, you can have one for 2/3 the list price if you can swallow your STW pride and get a "very nearly new" very low mileage ex demo at 2/3's or less list. There's a new 3 series coming, the dealers want rid of their 2017/18MY Demonstrators. I'm paying less than the lease on a top of the range Octavia VRS from Simpsons PCH for mine...
HI Kryton - I have no pride in that regard and apologies as I think I missed the words ex-demo in your earlier post - in fact I have a sort of weird dislike of the idea of a new car (my upbringing I think). My last car was 12 years old when I (stupidly) sold it. My focus after the burning I've had on the current car is on keeping its replacement in warranty for as long as possible but some 3 series itch-scratching is clearly worth investigating...
Need to get the current steaming pile of fetid dingoes kidneys fixed first so I can sell/trade it in.
No worries .I was really referring to angeldust, IMO there's no merit or status in "new" if you can have close to new for very far away from new prices.
Then again, I'm bound to justify my own purchase I guess!
Kryton go on then how much are you paying? Deposit, monthly & mileage.
£2.2k, £234 and 12000 miles. There’s a £12k balloon in 3 years on a 40000 miles car, of course I can hand it back or trade it. As you can see I’d end up paying £20k for a £33600 car not including the upgrades. This is all the car I’d ever need, I’m likely to be keeping it I feel is my current thought.
Someone’s bound to find fault with that but I’m comfortable. FWIW these guys often have good BMW deals and I used them and a couple of other sites as a comparison:
Kryton, as long as you are happy with the deal, that’s what matters. Enjoy the car. However, for the benefit of those still looking, you can get lease deals on a NEW car that piss all over that deal. Another difference is that there is no guarantee you will be offered a deal to purchase the lease car at the end of the deal (though you often are), but usually that is beside the point if you are leasing.
Could you link to some of those please Angeldust? Not only am I interested, I have colleagues at work looking for leases on similar deals. A car like mine for less than I’m paying on lease would be very good IMO, bearing in mind that’s about 30p per mile over the term.
I’ve recent looked into leasing a new car, same sort of wish list, something roomy & decent tontow with. Settled on the VW Tiguan, it’s quite big. Look at the new Skoda Kodiaq, that’s massive. It was my favourite but the Wife had final say, as it’s her car mostly. Some good deals out there. If you don’t want to put any (or much) up front, I found a 150hp SE Nav TDi for 1+35 @ £289pm, on 10k pa. Another place had same car ar £300 inc service & tyres.
As said, you need to act fast. Be flexible on colour & trim, to a degree, if you can.
Car Wow came up with the best deals, ironically. Just send off you requirements & let them come to you.
We ended up buying a new one on PCP, but some of the lease deals were very good.
If you end up buying new, try CarWow. The dealer instantly dropped £2.5k when I showed him the price on CarWow.
Kryton, will PM you
Could you link to some of those please Angeldust? Not only am I interested, I have colleagues at work looking for leases on similar deals. A car like mine for less than I’m paying on lease would be very good IMO, bearing in mind that’s about 30p per mile over the term.
Skoda Superb Sportline 2.0 Tdi DSG with about £4k's worth of extras. 12.9ppm absolute cost, based on 35k PA. 3 year lease.
And I can actually fit a bike in the back as the boot is bigger than a Golf's 😉
My kia optima 1.7d doesn't cost lots. In fact it's dirt cheap at 146/month.
<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #222222; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Skoda Superb Sportline 2.0 Tdi DSG with about £4k’s worth of extras. 12.9ppm absolute cost, based on 35k PA. 3 year lease</span>
12.9 x 35,000 / 100 = £376.25 a month and that's with without a deposit
Ling. Ling. Ling.
Ling cars. Ling cars. Ling cars.
12.9 x 35,000 / 100 = £376.25 a month and that’s with without a deposit
Wrong line on my spreadsheet. It's actually 9.9ppm. £288 a month, 36 months, deposit contribution paid for by Skoda (which was £2.5k).
Can't find anything close to that now. But if you're doing sensible miles, there are good deals on Octavia VRS's and some Superbs.
Almost anything with a diesel is being heavily discounted at the moment. BMW were offering almost 12k of deposit on a new 520d, but absolutely nothing on an i3.
Thanks folks, steady stream of helpful comments.
Looked at a few sites for what's going at good monthly values and got some target box ticking cars (the BMW/nicer options might take some extra leg work) and even been to look at the CRV and the Optima in the metal today, the former as there were some good rates and the latter from a poster on here's suggestion - the spec is nuts for the money.
Car in tomorrow for fixing so we will see what that brings and a discussion with the dealer about whether someone might find some goodwill and/or a better deal to keep me in the brand. I could be bought but it will have to be good.
Sorry one more dummy question.
If i fit a towbar will I get legged over when returning the car/have to get it removed?
Thanks
doubt they would notice.
I've fitted to my lease cars I removed prior to handing back and sold them on ebay/gumtree
👍 thanks.
Another vote for Lings. I found the communications faultless when choosing which car\lease to go for, got quotes up to 20k/year and were competitively priced, what I liked most was that excess mileage was charged at 2.7p/mile rather than the 8-9p/mile I saw elsewhere.