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I'm now in need of a new vehicle for various reasons. Requirements are needs to be an estate, can have a towbar and is fast/sporty in MANUAL. Seems everything is auto/tiptronic these days which I cant stand.
Here's a fast manual. Don't think it has a towbar though.
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Got one of them already.
Budget, Size requirement, Age?
Give us a clue!
Based on nothing as all, Skoda VRS 230 Estate. It's a 155mph car, fancy diff to help it around corners, manual.
I'm in a similar situation. What I really want is an Audi RS4, but that is unlikely to happen. So I was thinking I will probably look at Mondeos.
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Seat Leon ST Cupra?
Edit - may have central exhaust that prevents towbar
Budget: up to 45k poss more but sub 60k
Size: Not A6 size, A$ size
Age: < 3 years old, under warranty
MANUAL , not s-tronic, pdk, auto, slush box whatever. Hateful things.
AWD if possible, I live on a gnarly hill which can be difficult in winter, will have a set of winter wheels for it anyway.
That enough to go on, I'm drawing blanks as most of the nice ones (rs4 etc) are all auto only. FWIW I had a B7 RS4 Avant and it was wonderful.
M5?
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[edit] not that one - the criteria appeared as I was looking for the image
I had a Skoda octavia Vrs estate which meets your stated requirements, sold it recently for £1600 which I thought was a lot of car for the money. Mine was a mk1 petrol one but they have newer diesel/petrol ones too, I think they even do LSD on them now.
If you want something proper large then I would rate the Skoda Superb estate too or something else based on the Passat chassis, TBH the transverse engine mounted Passat chassis is probably better than the longitudinal Golf chassis which the Octavia is based on.
Jaguar XF Sportbrake.
Do you mean fast as in:
"I want to cover miles quickly by hammering up and down motorways and dual carriageways at licence-threatening speeds"
or
"I want an engaging and fun experience behind the wheel that makes me smile and allows me to take corners at silly speeds"
or simply
"I want to win at traffic light drag races?"
🙂
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There you go, a manual wagon. For fast just add a steep hill to go down.
perchypanther - Member
Jaguar XF Sportbrake.
Doesn't exist in manual, otherwise it's a good shout.
I, for one, am more aroused right now than I've been ever since they stopped top gear on the BBC
(apart from the "what unimog camper van for 250 grand" threads, obvz)
Based on your criteria the only thing that I can see that fits is either a 330i Touring, or a 320d if you want a diesel. The 340i and 330d that you can afford are both autos.
As is all the S4s and RS4s and all the 3.0Tdis and any Merc.
The Jaf XF is A6/5Series size, the XE Estate doesn't exist yet.
It's a sad day when you can't find a manual, I've had pdk and dsg and I just do not like them.
I think BMW might do a 3 series touring in awd. I think they do it in manual too. Not sure of it is big enough but they are great cars and for that money I am sure you could have new. I would not go for the 2.0 d engine though, I might ne out of date but just google N47 engine issues.
I could not sew what size you are looking for, but that might be my kak phone. The VRS would defo be on my list - it is FWD, so going to be better than most on wet/icy roads and with winter tyres fine.
Too old for you, and not AWD, but the E61 550i was available as a manual. Very rare though. I think I've only ever seen one.
Modern big/luxury cars are all some kind of auto. I assume so that they can apply various electronic jiggery-pokery to get them through emissions testing.
You're really going to struggle, very little interest in manual estates. I spent ages looking for the diesel 5 series touring I just traded in, pretty much auto only. Strangely I saw a manual X5 (old one) at the lights the other day, car like that definitely warrants an auto
Anything from Subaru?
Manual might also make it harder to trade in when you're done with it
How about an Audi RS2 and something else for boring stuff?
You know, I genuinely don't think you will find one that meets your spec. Even Alpina don't offer a manual wagon anymore, especially not in 4wd. Merc, BMW, Jag, VW, Volvo- all their estates from mid range are auto now, and the fast ones all have more torque than their manual boxes can handle.
The Seat Leon ST Cupra comes in manual but only 2wd.
Skoda will give you 2wd manual but 4x4 only in DSG diesel.
The Focus ST can't tow.
I think you might have to go for an auto. Most of the things as quick as you would like don't even come in manual on the continent so you couldn't order one from over there either.
Space mainly, no room for > 2 cars, if there was I would have something small and sporty !
If I'm consigned to auto I'll get an RS4 then, Audi say they can put a towbar on it legitimately, the 6 has a factory option for one.
Not sure how you would get on with cars such as Audi Rs's and BMW M's as I'm not sure they have a tow bar load rating which might cause problems when it comes to insurance. Something to consider.
What I really want is an Audi RS4,
Thats auto too. What I would say to the OP is have you driven a car with the latest generation of 7/8speed boxes? You can use the paddles if you want to drive manual stylee, but they are so responsive you rarely miss the manual box.
Plus, as mentioned above, you will suffer when you sell.
Yep - I am a frequent rental user so have had a large number of decent spec cars in the last 6 months. I'll go and have a few drives then seeing as I seem to be a dying breed.
320d xdrive should be plenty fast enough.
If it's not you can get a 330d in manual if you look hard enough.
Second hand manual 5 series are like rocking horse poop.
Subaru Leggy spec B
Save yourself a few quid too.
None of the press have been very nice about the old RS4 or new S4 compared to the Alpina B3 or Mercedes C63 AMG.
Auto/tip is definitely the norm now on medium sized and larger sports models, its all F1 trickle down don't you know 😐
I would say for an estate type car 5 series / A4 suzes and larger these boxes work well, you do lose a little driver engagement but for the majority of my driving and especially in town and on the motorway auto/tip is better, thenpaddle to drop down a gear for overtaking is very simple and quick. It's only on twisty roads when you really want to work the box that even the paddles are inferior imho. Of course there are numerous supercars with auto/tip only.
Whilst frustrating I think if you allow manual box to decide car choice you could well end up with an inferior car
I meant to say in my earlier post
My manual 5 series got traded in against an auto E class
I've reached middle age early...
Octavia vrs with a stage 1 remap to 305bhp.
Only fwd but would be fun !!
Spec B Scooby Legacy?
http://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-spottedykywt/subaru-legacy-3-0r-spec-b-spotted/31006
No scoobs thanks, I lived in NZ and have had loads.
HSV Clubsport R8 Tourer?
Well if it was owned by a mature architect....
Why do you want a compromise 'estate sports car'? The type of people who tend to buy RS4's etc are those who cant afford to buy a weekend toy, or actually unaware that you can much nicer driving cars.
I would get a Mondeo estate and buy a nice weekend car. But don't you already have a nice weekend car?
The type of people who tend to buy RS4's etc are those who cant afford to buy a weekend toy
It's not unreasonable to want ONE car that is both practical and fun, is it?!? ❓
[img] http://pictures2.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media?id=9fb15dbe8bfe4949a6ce05228a5c53d8 [/img]
It's not unreasonable to want ONE car that is both practical and fun, is it?!?
Point proven 😆
Subaru Levorg - 300bhp estate, awd and manual.
Ah, just noticed the no scoobys comment.
Not sure it is big enough in the rear. Many of the normal Evogues are manual and are actually quite quick too. Not really a sports car though.
Golf R estate?
I don't get the whole "hate auto's" thing but each to their own....
Volvo V70r if you dont mind something a few years old. If you are in NZ still import one Japan. If you are in the UK there is a company in scotland importing very clean examples from Japan.
Pity they don't make the Alfa 159 Sportwagon any more.
You could have bought special sunglasses and everything.
What Funky says - I would prioritise a nice car and a cheaper one the bike can go in - that was my Cayman old Rav4 combo - bought s/h today would cost less than the OP's budget - I would be very reluctant to put my bike covered in sh.t inside a £40k car, too OCD
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who would prefer a manual gearbox if possible. As already mentioned, almost all of the more powerful large estates are auto only now. I had one of the last manual Audi A4 3.0Tdi Avant Quattro's before they became auto only.... Wish I had kept it now. That was fast enough with the possibility of adding coniderably to the output with a remap.
Good luck in finding what you want
I don't have room for 2 extra cars, I've done the proper car/practical
Combo with a 993 turbo and a vw transporter. I'd quite like a fast estate, I can lug people and stuff around in it as well as having some completely legal under the speed limit, appropriate time and place fun.
[url= http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201606024533509?search-target=usedcars&make=vauxhall&model=insignia&aggregatedTrim=VXR&year-from=2015&sort=default&searchcontext=default&page=1&postcode=le15df&radius=1500&body-type=estate&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&logcode=p&adPos=1 ]Insignia VXR[/url]
Ticks all the boxes, I believe.
Edit: except towbar, possibly.
For those suggesting two cars as a solution, why don't you want to make the most of the driving experience when you need practicality too? Just because I've got the bike in the boot doesn't mean I don't want to enjoy the drive as much as possible. Every week I drive across the Peak District on quiet B roads and have huge amounts of (legal, safe) fun, but I still have a bike in the boot. I'd be gutted if I had to make a choice between taking my bike or having a fun drive. It is possible to have cake and eat it.
Having done the impractical 2 seater sports car thing, I'm really pleased with the current 1 Series I've got. More than big enough for bike carrying duties but great fun to drive. It's not the fastest car I've had in a straight line by any margin, but it's the closest I've got so far to the perfect compromise. Next step will be the kind of estates NZCol is looking at, so will bookmark this...
Well I've ordered a 330i M Sport touring that would meet those requirements although at 252 hp that may not be rapid enough for you. I specified the 8 speed auto but it's available in manual. If you want the 340i (326 hp) you would need to take the auto.
Sounds like he needs to prioritise buying a house with a bigger driveway.
He'd probably have more room inside so he'd be able to hang his suits in a wardrobe and not the back window...
suburbanreuben - MemberSounds like he needs to prioritise buying a house with a bigger driveway.
He'd probably have more room inside so he'd be able to hang his suits in a wardrobe and not the back window...
Oooo so much bile for such a short post.
Insert a smiley. 😯
Golf R estate?
DSG only. It's so much better than the manual that no one bothers with manual on the hatchback! 😉
Harsh there, I don't wear a suit thanks and my house is perfectly adequate although the pool does probably take up the space for another garage, that's my problem not yours. 😆
Didn't know you could get the 330i M Sport Touring in a manual, will look into that. I'm sorry I've offended those that have read this, my apologies. That Vauxhall Insignia is lovely, might go and look.
No Golf R estate manual available (just looked at the VW website) but no-one orders them!
Could it be that no one orders the non DSG Golf R because it isn't available.
Chicken-egg, egg-chicken
Am I the only person to spit my tea out because of the £45k-£60k budget.
Don't think I'd want a Vauxhall if I had that much to spend.
Anything under budget is absolutely fine, I'm not bothered about the badge I just want something comfy, fast, able to lug
Nobody buys cars with cash. It's all about how much credit you can leverage or how much you're prepared to spend on leasing. Anyone buying a 40 - 60k car with cash really isn't that clever.
Problem with big heavy and powerful cars with manual boxes is that they eat clutches. Not really the best technical solution for a heavy and powerful car. Sure you can nurse them to achieve decent miles but you don't buy cars like that to nurse them along.
Problem with big heavy and powerful cars with manual boxes is that they eat clutches. Not really the best technical solution for a heavy and powerful car
I have had a number of powerful and torquey (500nm+) manual cars. With 4wd which puts additional strain on the clutch and gearbox. Never had a problem with the drive train.
Lucky? Or just well engineered?
When the new Alfa Romeo gets released in Sportwagon guise ohhhhhhhhh I may rob a bank......
they eat clutches
Which is why everyone is moving to autos. Also, its easier to meet emissions limits with an auto, especially on a massive engine. Doesn't help that probably 50% of the "enthusiastic" drivers aren't actually very good at it.
If you want that sort of grunt (400+bhp i'm guessing) on a sports chassis how are you going to be able to have fun? Those i've driven in that category you have to be well into illegal speeds to have anything like fun. Up to the speed limit they are generally so capable you either have to drive like a cock or fit drifting tyres.
Even the T6 Polestars that i've driven (and even the C30 polestar) driving well over the speed limit is fairly uninteresting. If a "little" noisy......
It's a pity that the Cadillac CTS-V Wagon wasn't sold over here.
6.2 supercharged LS V8, 556hp. 8)
Would have been ideal.
Volvo V60T5R Design Manual. Quite nice but maybe not enough? Ah no manual anymore sorry.
The Octavia Scout estate is available as a 150ps 4x4 manual, and the VRs is also available as a 220ps manual estate, if you go onto Skodas site you can select the various trim, engine and colour options.
http://cc-cloud.skoda-auto.com/gbr/gbr/en-gb/5e5/68957#!cc-instance=GBR&cc-salesprogram=GBR&cc-culture=en-gb&cc-model=5E5&cc-carline=68957&cc-equipment=&cc-motor=152118&cc-color=8T8T&cc-interior=LH&cc-packages=&cc-view=step2&cc-configurationId=0&cc-viewstate=%7B%22lastConfigurationHash%22%3A%226_S5_LH_8T8T_%22%7D
http://cc-cloud.skoda-auto.com/gbr/gbr/en-gb/5e5/68977#!cc-instance=GBR&cc-salesprogram=GBR&cc-culture=en-gb&cc-model=5E5&cc-carline=68977&cc-equipment=&cc-motor=152128&cc-color=Z5Z5&cc-interior=HB&cc-packages=&cc-view=step2&cc-configurationId=0&cc-viewstate=%7B%22lastConfigurationHash%22%3A%22S_8Y_HB_Z5Z5_%22%7D
Could it be that no one orders the non DSG Golf R because it isn't available.
Chicken-egg, egg-chicken
The hatchback is available in both DSG and manual. In all markets except the US the DSG 'box far outsells the manual (which is £1500 cheaper). So much so the estate is only available in DSG.
320d xdrive touring here and it's plenty nippy enough even in auto.
My next one will probably be the 335d xdrive in auto too. Go for the flappy paddles and drive it like a manual if you must.
You can go on pistonheads.com and search for manual/estate/0-60 under x.
I'll save you the trouble though - the answer is an Audi. Other options - Porsche Macan (not really an estate but you have to compromise somewhere, BMW M5 touring. My choice would be an e60 550i, if you can find one in manual (rare but they do exist).
NZCol - MemberBudget: up to 45k
About 15 mk3 Mondeo STs. When one goes wrong, throw it in the bin.
I had a somewhat smaller budget, but similar requirements. Ended up with a 56 plate e91 BMW 330i Touring with only 47k. BUT, it is an auto which I actually suits the car/engine and I'm coping with a lot better than I expected having had one previously in an e92 325 coupe which I just could not get on with. I think it just works better with the larger engine. Not sure it helps you, but there might have to be a compromise somewhere given what is now available.
I'd rather have an auto 340 touring than a manual Insignia for example.
Or could you get away with e.g. a BMW 335i M Sport Gran Tourismo which can be had as a manual, rather than an estate?
or a 328i M Sport touring manual
[url= http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/3-Series/2.0-328i-M-Sport-Touring/Norwich/3478101-605804944-3497221.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_ ]BMW 328 Touring Manual[/url]
I ran a volvo V50 t5 sport for a few years. Fast but a bit dull on the steering. Had a VXR vectra estate that was made from cheese and chocolate. 335i is on my list or a RS4/6 would be the weapon of choice
weapon of choice
😐
Probably have to be a semi-fast version to have type approval/space for a towbar.
As already touched on, so much new fast stuff is flappy paddle auto of some sort.
...and yet another thread which demonstrates why road safety really, really needs the human bit to be removed from any control issues with regard to road safety.
Boys with toys don't belong on roads.
Not a wagon exactly, more of a large hatchback, but the Porsche Panamera can be had with a manual.
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There are 2* 4.8s Panemeras on Autotrader, both less than £40k.
Daffy - MemberNot a wagon exactly, more of a large hatchback, but the Porsche Panamera can be had with a manual.
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There are 2* 4.8s Panemeras on Autotrader, both less than £40k.
Behold, the Panamera Sport Tourismo!
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crikey - Member...and yet another thread which demonstrates.......blaaaaaa
A tiresome **** emerges.