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Yup it is and there’s more than that.
Congratulations. I’ll see if the STW have any croissants they can send you.
Phoned 101 and, surprisingly, they had a think and said it’s OK to keep the swordstick in the house. Not to give away, sell, trade or carry in public.
@gecko76 I'd be tempted to get a second opinion if were you, the consequences of getting this wrong could mess your life up. Knife law is complex and it wouldn't be impossible for a 101 call handler to inadvertently give out misleading advice. They aren't legal experts. Have a look at the official advice on this gov.uk site.
Banned knives and weapons
If a knife or weapon is listed in the following table, it’s illegal to:
- possess it
- bring it into the UK
- sell or hire it out
- lend or give it to someone
The table mentioned (full details in the link above) very clearly lists sword sticks as banned. The penalty for having one can be up to 4 years in prison or an unlimited fine. You'll note if your mum has given it to you, she has also (potentially) commited an offence. It may be if you can prove it is over 100 years old you are OK. Maybe! I'd even be tempted to ask the mods to delete your posts until you've resolved this. At the very least, phone your local police, speak to an actual police officer, not civilian staff. If they say you can keep it, take a note of their details.
Good luck 👍
Also, and this may affect others, these are relatively recent law changes which may have passed people by.
Offensive weapons act 2019 which has been amended a couple of times since, most recently last month!
Things which were perfectly legal to own just a few years ago, now aren't and you may not have realised. This includes a lot of decorative swords (blade over 50cm), machetes ( as of January this year) etc.
Wonder how much compensation they will pay for tools that are no longer legal to own
Which 'tools' are you refering to that are no long legal to own?
Machetes
Do your own research, but in the right context they are not illegal to own and use. See also scythes and billhooks.
Machetes
They are still legal (in your garden or private land vs down the pub).
Its "zombie" ones which are banned. Not completely sure of the definition but its basically ones that look like an idiots idea of a short sword generally with some writing on them along the lines of "murder, death, kill".
@Mikel, I genuinely don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of exemption for machetes if you needs one for your job. I know a landscaper/gardener who clears a lot of rough scrub and uses one all the time. I'll ask him when I see him. I've also seen traditional hedgelayers round here using bilhooks and machetes so I hope some common sense has been applied.
Edit... above posts landed whilst typing this
It is therefore reasonable to identify those people who use it as a weapon & apply the law to them & not to the others.
What criteria would you suggest we base this "one law for one and another for another" approach on, and whom do you suppose we should empower to make that decision?
We already have this function. It's called a courtroom.
The statistics demonstrate who is using knives as weapons
The problem with statistics is that they can be slippery creatures. One could argue, for instance, that young black men are more likely to be caught with blades because an institutionally racist police force is actively targeting them as a profile for a stop & search. Possibly.
Back in the 80s, when my brother & I were in our early teens, my parents were on a lecture tour around the USA.
In Florida, my mum decided to buy presents for her darling sons. Two knuckle duster switchblades!
At Miami airport, she was allowed on the plane with said items in her handbag. Their plane had a quick stopover in Houston en route to the west coast & passengers had the option to stay on or get off for a quick walkabout.
Dad stayed on. Mum got off to send some post cards. When she tried to get back on - Texas law was very different to Florida law! She was arrested & taken downtown and put in a cell with all the hos & junkies!
My poor father had to get off the plane & go downtown to bail her out.
My brother & I never did get the knives although she brought home the empty boxes which, tantalisingly, had detailed pictures of the knives on them.
it wouldn’t be impossible for a 101 call handler to inadvertently give out misleading advice. They aren’t legal experts.
...
At the very least, phone your local police, speak to an actual police officer, not civilian staff.
I broadly agree with your point, but I doubt that your "actual police officer" is any more likely to be a legal expert than a 101 call handler. What you want there is a solicitor, ideally a specialist one.
I'm no lawyer either, but the law doesn't seem particularly ambiguous here to me. You're hanging a potential jail sentence on "It was my grandfather's, your honour, it was just in the house. I'd never use it, I'm a nice middle-class white boy."
It's a nice thing, but I really wouldn't be having it readily accessible. Aside from anything else, is a burglar likely to find it?
The problem with statistics is that they can be slippery creatures. One could argue, for instance, that young black men are more likely to be caught with blades because an institutionally racist police force is actively targeting them as a profile for a stop & search. Possibly.
Difficult to argue with the stats if it’s based on the people convicted of doing the stabbing.
I’m playing devils advocate here, but the basic sense of the complaint is that unlike guns, which are weapons, knives are tools as well as weapons. If you accept the purpose of the law is to prevent people being stabbed, not to ban knives per se and if you are convicting people who have no intention of stabbing anybody then it is obviously a bad law.
EDIT the issue we have on this thread is that there are people who aren’t carrying knives as weapons but who nevertheless don’t actually have a reasonable argument for carrying them.
My brother & I never did get the knives although she brought home the empty boxes which, tantalisingly, had detailed pictures of the knives on them.
In the late 1980s I was in an army bomb disposal unit based in Ashford, Kent. One of the more routine jobs was 'milk runs'. Regularly doing a trawl of all the local police stations in Kent and East Sussex to collect surrendered or confiscated ammunition and explosives for disposal.
100s of kilos every year. Because of where we were, a big part of it was stuff bought back from France and Belgium by school day trips. We only took the chemicals/ammo/explosives - but got to see all the hardware lifted too.
Fireworks by the carrier bag full, shotgun cartridges, CS sprays, extendible batons, swords, knuckle dusters, tear gas guns, even on one occasion a 9mm rimfire shotgun and a black powder cap & ball revolver (no licence required in France at the time). All taken from kids!
The cops and customs were wise to it, so they confiscated loads, but I'm sure lots got through!
Anyone found a definition of machete for me the new ban? I use one for clearing brambles in the garden. It's just a normal one rather than a zombie one tho. Seems there will be a handing in scheme in the summer but I can't actually find what they're calling a machete.
I broadly agree with your point, but I doubt that your “actual police officer” is any more likely to be a legal expert than a 101 call handler. What you want there is a solicitor, ideally a specialist one.
Agreed. But if you got an incident number and recorded their details at least there would be a record that you'd tried in good faith to do the right thing. But yes, a solicitor would be the safest option. Or just surrender it to the police.
"a zombie-style knife is any bladed weapon over eight inches in length with a plain cutting edge and sharp pointed end that also has either a serrated cutting edge, more than one hole in the blade, or multiple sharp points like spikes."
From here
Never Mind those. We’re talking about knives.
OED
bill-hook, n.
A heavy thick knife or chopper with a hooked end, used for pruning, cutting brushwood, etc.
In the late 1980s I was in an army bomb disposal unit based in Ashford, Kent.
Random aside....
Templer?
I was JSIO there. Probably a little later than you - '91.
Sounds like machete and combo saws are now banned then. Pretty stupid.
Templer?
Yep. As a Sgt. There was a detachment of 621 EOD Coy (later Sqn) there. The det later moved to Shornecliffe.
I came back to 621 Sqn as an LE Capt in 2000- 2004 based at the Sqn HQ at RAF Northholt.
I made a good few mates from the Int Corps, whilst at Ashford some of whom I'm still in touch with.
Sounds like machete and combo saws are now banned then. Pretty stupid.
I don't think they are, as above. If they were, are you suggesting the website you are linking to is openly selling banned and illegal 'weapons'?
Never Mind those. We’re talking about knives.
underrated post
any bladed weapon over eight inches in length with a plain cutting edge and sharp pointed end that also has either a serrated cutting edge, more than one hole in the blade, or multiple sharp points like spike
This is why the legislation would be helpful, which I don't think has been published yet and the ban isn't yet in force. The description is poorly phrased, but I reckon that's included.
1) bladed weapon over 8 inches - check
2) sharp pointed end - check
3) plain cutting edge - check
4) either a serrated cutting edge (check) or more than one whole in the blade or multiple sharp points - check
Not illegal to sell presumably until the ban is in force?
underrated post
I got the impression something had gone straight over the top of my head ☺️. A not uncommon occurrence!
underrated post
Yes.. I was going to add something about the main problem isn’t those things but is instead deactivated hand guns being converted to fire. But I thought it might be over egging the pudding.
Would a WW1 bayonet be illegal to own now ? Say 17" in length.
Can they be passed onto a museum or something ?
Over 100 years old so fine.
Don't take my word for it, IANAL but...
As it's indisputably more than a 100 yo if it's definitely WW1 and not a repro, it's probably OK.
I've got a WW2 spike bayonet for a Lee Enfield. So a bit younger. I'm not entirely sure of it's legality - gulp! I think it's OK?? It would be a little ironic if I had to get rid, as I am legally allowed to own the live firing Lee Enfield rifle it belongs on the end of.
Banning ownership seems a bit difficult to enforce. My FiL has a shed full of mad stuff. There’s probably machetes and knives in there. I also doubt he’s even aware of the changes in the law. I’d imagine most people are.
Got pulled over by the police many years ago, "he's got a knife he's got a knife" up against the van legs spread full works. "Why have you got a knife" "Just come from work at the farm" "how do we know that" "well I am covered in cow shit"...not sure it warranted a riot van and and several cars full of cops..
Anyway after giving me a quick sniff they relented and let me on my way!
Banning ownership seems a bit difficult to enforce.
You ain't kidding. Would make a chef's job challenging 😉
What leaps out to me (retired lawyer) from that definition of a machete is the use of the word "weapon". It is either redundant or was put there to add meaning over eg "bladed thing" or "knife".
A court will assume it is there to add meaning. The way to find out what that meaning is, is to look up the surrounding documents and any debates, committee discussions in Hansard. Which I can't be arsed to do, but I would guess the legislative intention was not to outlaw established work implements like billhooks and breadknives, and that would be apparent from the legislative history. That will be taken into account when the definition has to be interpreted.
Of course, as we all know on STW a motor vehicle is a weapon, so check your motor for sharp and pointy bits.
I’ll see if the STW have any croissants they can send you.
Where no doubt you would find some handmade, I would expect that you may struggle however for any that have been rolled between virgin thighs.
I fear that ship has long sailed.
Of course, as we all know on STW a motor vehicle is a weapon, so check your motor for sharp and pointy bits.
LOL! Typical lawyer playing with definition. LOL! I am imagining a court case where everyone is trying to argue the definition of a particular term and then referencing the origin of the word. LOL! Then prolong the session to get paid more LOL!
Therefore, start again. Is a machete a weapon? If you are in other part of the world like South East Asia, you can buy machete almost everywhere. We use it for cutting the hedges, trees, as a hammer to break things, as a farming tool and, yes, to lop off body parts if nothing is available. Frankly, every household will have at least one machete. In the country side people would carry a machete on their waist belt when going to do farm work and is a common sight. The trend now is "sport machete" where the purpose is to show off how nice looking the machete is and how good the quality can be. People will treat their machete like their precious and never use it on dirt.
We went on a family trip to Grenada once about 20 years ago. One day we hired a soft top Jeep and took a mooch around the Island. On one tiny road we came across a gang of about 8 or 9 teenage males walking towards us on the road and completely blocking it. Each of them had a massive, vicious looking machete in their hand, casually dangling at their side. It took a few terrifying seconds to compute, but I quickly realised they were farm workers who'd been cutting sugar cane in the fields at the side of the road. My wife however was convinced we were going to be dismembered and the kids were completely oblivious! They were of course smiley and friendly when we got a bit closer!
What leaps out to me (retired lawyer) from that definition of a machete is the use of the word “weapon”. It is either redundant or was put there to add meaning over eg “bladed thing” or “knife”.
What was quoted earlier isn't the legislation definition. I don't think that's been published yet.
LOL! Typical lawyer playing with definition. LOL! I am imagining a court case where everyone is trying to argue the definition of a particular term and then referencing the origin of the word. LOL! Then prolong the session to get paid more LOL!
The whole point is you do not just reference the origin of the word, you try to find out what parliament intended by looking at what it said. Words can end up with unusual meanings as a result of this process. (As an aside, the law's approach to meaning is that it always depends on ontext, so there is no one meaning of a word that the law must cleave to in all situations). So what might count as a weapon in parts of Asia is of little help to a court trying to interpret UK legislation.
What is a court supposed to do when faced with a new statutory provision to apply to a particular set of facts? Laws need interpreting, it is unavoidable. And it is preferable that it is done in accordance with established principles, that is one aspect of what is meant be "the rule of law".
And it is not playing, peoples' livelihoods and liberty may be at stake.
Also in my part of the world if people are are threaten with a 6 inch fixed blade knife, the normal way of solving the threats (normally they don't report to the police unless matter cannot be dealt with locally), is to bring in larger longer knife such as parang, or golok. LOL! Then they chase each other shouting with raise parang or golok. Interesting sight that. The rest of the locals would wait eagerly to be "entertained". i.e. literally wait for the fight to begin and eagerly wait to be "amused". Women would scream with their hands covering their eyes but watching it through the gaps between their fingers. However, village chief would normally have to settle the matter (locals still there watching but a bit disappointed by now)
billhooks
Never Mind those. We’re talking about knives.
When she tried to get back on – Texas law was very different to Florida law! She was arrested & taken downtown and put in a cell with all the hos & junkies!
Texas you say. Would have been better off buying an automatic rifle, she’d have been give an award.
The whole point is you do not just reference the origin of the word, you try to find out what parliament intended by looking at what it said. Words can end up with unusual meanings as a result of this process. (As an aside, the law’s approach to meaning is that it always depends on ontext, so there is no one meaning of a word that the law must cleave to in all situations). So what might count as a weapon in parts of Asia is of little help to a court trying to interpret UK legislation.
What is a court supposed to do when faced with a new statutory provision to apply to a particular set of facts? Laws need interpreting, it is unavoidable. And it is preferable that it is done in accordance with established principles, that is one aspect of what is meant be “the rule of law”.
And it is not playing, peoples’ livelihoods and liberty may be at stake.
True, true, I forgot about the interpretation of the UK legislation etc. D'oh! I agree. No wonder I only did so so in law module at Uni. LOL!
I can imagine why a teen carrying a parang or golok in London, I mean where is the farm?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2024/9780348256871
It is a draft amending SI and it talks of "article" and "weapon".
Damn I said I wasn't going to look into it. You need to plug that amendment into the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (including any other amendments), to find out the full effect.
Damn I said I wasn’t going to look into it.
LOL! Crikey, that's a lot of information just to carry or not to carry a knife. I learn something today. LOL!
Difficult to argue with the stats if it’s based on the people convicted of doing the stabbing.
True.
Is that the case? Where are these statistics we're referencing?
Of course, as we all know on STW a motor vehicle is a weapon, so check your motor for sharp and pointy bits.
Pointy bits on a car would be an MOT failure and unlawful to drive.
I haven't read this whole thread, mainly because I live in Switzerland where knife carrying is a bit more liberal, possibly due to a more rural population and because the police carry guns?
Anyway, my main reason for carrying a full size (but UK legal) SAK was for a bottle opener along with a blade, screwdriver whatever. I now carry a Victorinox Rambler everywhere as it's the only? small SD sized SAK with a functional bottle opener.
That draft is pretty clear. Def outlaws stuff like the greber I linked to earlier. Which is pretty stupid since carrying one of those in public was illegal anyway, and it's a useful tool.
Also helpfully defines how the blade is a measured which other legislation doesn't.
It's super clear isn't it?
2.—(1) The Schedule to the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988(3) is amended as follows.
(2) In paragraph 1, after sub-paragraph (s) insert—
“(sa)the weapon sometimes known as a “zombie-style knife” or “zombie-style machete”, being a bladed article with—
(i)a plain cutting edge;
(ii)a sharp pointed end; and
(iii)a blade of over 8 inches in length (the length of the blade being the straight-line distance from the top of the handle to the tip of the blade),which also has one or more of the features specified in paragraph 1A and which is not a weapon that falls under paragraph 1(s);”
(3) After paragraph 1, insert—“1A.—(1) For the purposes of paragraph 1(sa), the specified features are—
(a)a serrated cutting edge (other than a serrated cutting edge of up to 2 inches next to the handle);
(b)more than one hole in the blade;
(c)spikes;
(d)more than two sharp points in the blade (other than a sharp point of a kind specified in sub-paragraph (2)).
It meets paragraph sa (i, ii, and iii) and of the specified features it meets item (a) - serrated edge.
How can it be read differently. I don't think I'm looking for a problem, I just wanted to know the definition and have now read it. As it happens my machete I use on brambles isn't a combo one so is fine.
I think I might convert to Sikhism, then I’d be allowed to carry a dirty great big Kirpan around with me.
… not sure what they are like for cutting tomatoes.
Likewise, as long as I am wearing my full kilt outfit I should be OK with my Sgian Dubh down my hose? Or would I need to somehow carry proof of my second generation Scots ancestry in order for it to count as national dress?
More seriously, I get that it's complex and trying to cover a huge range of use cases but the law around all this is mighty confusing. My lovely little Svord Peasant is probably legal (just less than 3" and non locking in any practical sense) but my much more generally useful Leatherman Wave (deffo shorter blade than the Svord - among a whole load of other tools - but it locks) isn't.
Neither is anywhere near an EDC for me, but I'd be much more likely to be found out and about with the Wave on my person, especially if riding / trail building.
Is there any distinction in law about what the 'knife' is made of ?.
This is a Swedish butter knife, obviously for spreading, but some hardwoods can be given a reasonable edge and with the serrated edge on this example, Im sure something like a tomato or cheese would present little problem.
Posting for closure's sake and thanks to the mods for deleting the forum entries while matters were resolved. My sister handed in grandad's swordstick at the local police station today (it was too long for the knife deposit bin). Having been looking forward to inheriting it I'm actually glad it's gone. Reckon it was probably picked up at a French flea market in the 70s (it had 'India' stamped into the blade) so of little value or sentimental interest.
So me having a quick conversation with my workmate over a sliced tomato has directly led to several people changing their knife wielding habits and somebody actually handing the police a lethal heirloom…..the power of the internet never ceases to amaze.
Thought I’d chuck this in, all three I’ve carried at some point or other…
The modded Opinel I’ve never carried that often, having spent so much time getting the blade the shape I want it, I’m too afraid of losing it. The pruning knife on the right was my dad’s, and I don’t think there were many occasions when he didn’t have it in his pocket, but it’s rather bulky and it’s too precious to carry around, but I have used it in the garden occasionally.
The Spiderco Tasman Salt in the middle I used to carry quite a lot, particularly when I was a volunteer Ranger for Sustrans. My section included about a mile or so of path along an old railway line, which typically had lots of hedges and bushes along both sides, and equally typically brambles and rose briars would grow up through the bushes, along the branches then dangle down like ten feet of biological barbed wire right into the faces of cyclists and walkers.
Secateurs are awkward to use, the Tasman, designed for use on trawlers and crab and lobster boats for cutting through nylon netting and lines, is truly awesome for hacking through brambles, usually in one cut, maybe two or three if it’s thick. Cut through at the base, or as close as possible, then stretch up as high as possible, one cut and it’ll just stay there and die. Same with the stuff that grew out of the sides. I did have to take an axe to a fallen tree branch once, though.
I wish I’d had it with me on a walk the other day, sodding brambles and briers are already growing across a lane I regularly use.
Modern lightweight fabrics stand no chance against brambles. They should be clear cut like any other weed.
A further note to say that on the trip to see my mum the other weekend the Swiss Army Knife was used at various times to clean out the charging port of her mobile, divide a slice of tiffin and trim the turf around dad's grave, all of which could have been done with the right tools but they weren't to hand. I switched the scales for ones with a clip but in future it will be carried in a bag or internal pocket. But, the 91mm non-locking blade is 3.583 inches. Where does that leave me?
These guys have a really clear explanation and are a knife specialist so probably more informed than most.
https://www.whitbyandco.co.uk/pages/using-carrying-knives
Its illigal to carry over 3 inch cutting edge without good reason, and the guidance is that general "i might use it for x" isnt good reason.
Maybe buy a shorter bladeed one?
If your tool is that small every little counts.
the 91mm non-locking blade is 3.583 inches. Where does that leave me?
The law states that without good reason you cannot carry a knife:
a) with a fixed blade, or one which can be converted into what is effectively a fixed blade by means of a locking mechanism, or
b) with a blade longer than three inches, locking or not.
Where it leaves you is carrying an illegal knife.
now carry a Victorinox Rambler everywhere as it’s the only? small SD sized SAK with a functional bottle opener.
I presume you live in thf french or Italian part of Switz?
Any self respecting Teut learns to open bottles with a fag lighter/ spoon/ random object that comes to hand
Right, so it comes down to if you're caught carrying an illegal knife in the UK, then you're in trouble. The likelihood of being caught, which I'd always assumed to be vanishingly small, really comes down to other people, eg on a railway carriage and something kicks off and you happen to get involved and it transpires you have something on your person which you shouldn't.
The question is, in such a situation, are you automatically looking at a fine and/or custodial sentence, and a criminal record? Earlier informed posts suggest Yes. I'm not talking about engaging in threatening behaviour, which is clearly illegal, just being found to be in possession (easier to avoid if not on show, ie not clipped in jeans pocket).
The question is, in such a situation, are you automatically looking at a fine and/or custodial sentence, and a criminal record?
Yes
The question is, in such a situation, are you automatically looking at a fine and/or custodial sentence, and a criminal record?
Possession of any knife over 3in or which is fixed (which includes lock knives) is an offence which has up to 4 years in prison plus a fine unless you have "good reason" to have it.
Its not automatic but there is a good chance you will end up in court and so even if you do succeed in explaining to the court it was a good reason you will have had likely months or even years (given the creaking court system) of stress plus having to spend on the defence.
Hence why I would go for a sub 3in folder if I did feel the need to carry one day to day. Its just not worth the hassle.
Just my 2p worth - I _always_ used to carry a Swiss Army knife on me when I was younger. It was super useful! Screwdrivers, small blade, pokey thing to make holes bigger, tiny screwdriver to tighten my glasses, even the corkscrew... I wouldn't have even dreamed of using it in a confrontation - I don't understand how anyone can argue they "protect" themselves with an offensive weapon. Knives - and guns - are for attacking, not defending.
But these days I always have this on my keyring. Same size as a key, has a tiny blade for opening packages / stripping wires / whatever, a tiny serrated section for cutting threads, a bottle opener, can opener (if desperate), mini flat head screwdriver and a cross head screwdriver. And has never been taken off me at an airport! (not that I've deliberately tried to take it through, I've just forgotten to remove it from my pocket enough times, and had no problems, that I don't worry if I've left it in there).
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Any self respecting Teut learns to open bottles with a fag lighter/ spoon/ random object that comes to hand
I've never understood why gadgets aimed at men include a bottle opener
The likelihood of being caught, which I’d always assumed to be vanishingly small
It's about as likely as the earlier knife carrier's fantasy about encountering a car on fire and rushing into the flames to cut the seatbelt
are you automatically looking at a fine and/or custodial sentence, and a criminal record?
Automatically? Perhaps not. An attending officer might see before them a fine upstanding middle-class middle-aged white bloke and conclude that actually, a telling-off might be more appropriate. If it were to go to court, the law works on a basis of "this is what we did last time" and adjusts from there; ie you will get the basic punishment unless there's a reason to apply a more or less severe judgement.
So, "automatically," perhaps not, but there's a lot of variables here which could easily be removed by carrying a SAK and leaving the machete at home, you're basically hoping for goodwill. If as per your hypothetical scenario you were having your collar felt for being in the middle of a rammy then I expect that your chances of being told "off you go son, don't do it again" might suddenly be dramatically diminished. The whole point of the legislation is to empower coppers to drag ne'er-do-wells off the streets for a clearly defined reason, bang to rights.
I’ve never understood why gadgets aimed at men include a bottle opener
It’s about as likely as the earlier knife carrier’s fantasy about encountering a car on fire and rushing into the flames to cut the seatbelt
You arent actually grasping the situation.
A car on fire can be one reason, freeing a trapped animal another, or the same reason. And is as relevant as opening a bottle of wine or cutting the packaging or whatever.
There seems to be a lot of confusion here of what the term 'reasonable excuse is' but those that clearly cant think of one are lauding the term about, but not actually understanding neither the question, or the definition.
.
You dont seem to understand that a reason can be a long list. I think thats ok, you cant be knowledgeable in everything, but the daily mail level of thinking is not helping anyones understanding.
Heres the example of this.
The law states that without good reason you cannot carry a knife:
a) with a fixed blade, or one which can be converted into what is effectively a fixed blade by means of a locking mechanism, or
b) with a blade longer than three inches, locking or not.
Where it leaves you is carrying an illegal knife.
Neither A nor B relate to the initial reason, which is the question. So asking the question, then putting down A and B is simply nonsensical. Those are simply the criteria of what a non legal knife is. and have nothing to do with the reason.
.
The reason for having a knife that is legal, can be any reason, and it doesnt have to be an everyday situation, it can be completely obscure in a one in 10 billion scenario. The point is a knife below a certain length doesnt n need a reason, and that is all there is to it.
.
So for example if a cop asks you what the reason for having a knife that is clearly below thew threshold, you can give the reason that it is below the length needed to make it illegal.
.
The reason for having a knife that is legal, can be any reason, and it doesnt have to be an everyday situation, it can be completely obscure in a one in 10 billion scenario.
Nope. It has to be a 'good' reason. The one in 10 billion scenario would not be considered a good reason by virtue of its obscurity & rarity . Otherwise when arrested you could just say, 'if spiderman became entangled in his own web, I might be there to cut him free.'
Don't argue with me, it's the judge you'd be arguing with.
But these days I always have this on my keyring. Same size as a key, has a tiny blade for opening packages / stripping wires / whatever, a tiny serrated section for cutting threads, a bottle opener, can opener (if desperate), mini flat head screwdriver and a cross head screwdriver. And has never been taken off me at an airport! (not that I’ve deliberately tried to take it through, I’ve just forgotten to remove it from my pocket enough times, and had no problems, that I don’t worry if I’ve left it in there).
@Pierre I wonder if that's actually legal... The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2019 Section 1 (o)
1. Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offensive weapons) shall apply to the following descriptions of weapons, other than weapons of those descriptions which are antiques for the purposes of this Schedule:
(o) a disguised knife, that is any knife which has a concealed blade or concealed sharp point and is designed to appear to be an everyday object of a kind commonly carried on the person or in a handbag, briefcase, or other hand luggage (such as a comb, brush, writing instrument, cigarette lighter, key, lipstick or telephone);
Given a key is one of the specific examples, I would assume it's naughty.
Don't know if this has been posted before, but if not:
There seems to be a lot of confusion here of what the term ‘reasonable excuse is’ but those that clearly cant think of one are lauding the term about, but not actually understanding neither the question, or the definition.
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You dont seem to understand that a reason can be a long list
Evocative language aside, a reason has to be demonstrable. You may well have "extracting boy scouts from horses' hooves" in your big long list o' reasons to carry a knife but as far as a court would be concerned that's not a reason, it's an excuse. If you were a farrier on your way to work, that may be a different matter. If you're lucky.
Neither A nor B relate to the initial reason, which is the question. So asking the question, then putting down A and B is simply nonsensical.
The law is quite clear. Any lack of understanding here is not mine.
There seems to be a lot of confusion here of what the term ‘reasonable excuse is’ but those that clearly cant think of one are lauding the term about, but not actually understanding neither the question, or the definition.
Go on then. Define it for us and provide us the supporting court cases where your definition worked. I am especially fascinated to see the one in ten billion reason working.
The problem is there isnt a clear definition and so the only way it may get answered is in court. Which would be a pain in the arse even if the reason is accepted.
@Ewan crikey, you may have a point, technically speaking. Although given that the "knife" part of it is about 3cm long, I'm not sure it could be considered particularly offensive as a weapon. Someone determined to cause harm could use _any_ key if they wanted. Or a pen. Or a rolled-up magazine, or all sorts of other items someone might normally carry on their person.