You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Does it have a knife blade on it? Because if it does, the first statement is untrue is it not?
Honestly can’t recall if it does. Either way it wouldn’t be a need it would be a choice. As per my previous post nobody needs to carry a knife. If you want to or choose to then fine.
Guns for show. Knives, for a pro.
Honestly can’t recall if it does
I'm guessing that as you were talking in the context of 'making meals' that it probably does?
Fair enough. I'll be honest though, to say in one breath that you've never felt the need to carry a knife and in the next that you have carried and occasionally used one feels a little disingenuous. Whatever the semantics of need/want.
Yep on tour the choice would be a knife or a shit diet. Trying to chop an onion with an Allen key or an adjustable spanner is a bit shit
I’ll take the silence as there isn’t any. I’m not sure ‘but Drac said it was OK’ would swing it with the cops.
Oh I’m frightfully sorry I missed your reply, I hope you haven’t sat up all night waiting. I feel terrible now.
Your wooden spoon however, Im sure you would never leave home without that.
Whittled it myself, it’s handy as it be used to spread butter
That’s pretty cool @TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR
Oh I’m frightfully sorry I missed your reply, I hope you haven’t sat up all night waiting. I feel terrible now.
It's OK, I'm retired so I can have an easy day to rest up! Can I take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking bollocks? 😉
Does it have a knife blade on it? Because if it does, the first statement is untrue is it not?
It doesn't matter if it has a knife on it or not. The point is he carries a tool that he feels the need to carry.
It's more than feasible that this pack gets used for other non bike or not offroad adventures, and does he remove the tool from it ?. I would think probably not.
So in the point of this exercise he carries a handy tool he may need, even if its not directly for a bicycle. This point of fact applies not only to the Funkmasterp, but to anyone posting on this thread.
Can I take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking bollocks?
I gave you answer right at the start. You have it as part of a toolkit in a locked seat. I’d say that’s very justifiable reason to have one.
Guns for show. Knives, for a pro.
Yeah thats what the tutor at my cooking class said. Apparently using a submachine gun to slice the sunday roast is dangerous. Health and safety gone mad.
Didnt even have chance to use the shotgun to mash the potatos.
No one's going to admit it on here, but I wonder if there's a hypocritical crossover of people that partake in a bit of the old charlie of a weekend, but get oh so offended by knives.
Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, just musing
And I agree with you Drac, but the law doesn't. As scapegoat explained, the police are not allowed to use their discretion in that scenario over the 'lawful excuse' bit with knife offences. Only the courts are. So you would be arrested, charged and appear in court. It's possible, that the evidence would be heard in your favour and you'd be found not guilty, no guarantees though. But if you were, it would only be after a distressing, expensive, career limiting and time consuming experience. So - I have decided it's not worth the risk, even if I've got a note from my mum Drac, saying it's OK! 😉
What this thread has highlighted is that - the law is an ass.
– the law is an ass.
explain...if you can.
This knife (photo chosen for the tomato bothering) folds. But when not folded and locked it looks pretty damn effective if in a bit of bother. As has already been explained, unless we want a shed ton of unreasonable favouritism, giving the tools to the police to address people carrying said tomato slicers does not seem too outlandish. As has again already been pointed out - there is already some privilege baked in to how the law is used and applied.
I'm struggling to see where the problem is.
Well I'll be sticking with the victorinox signature in my wallet, and the old penknife in my jacket, but I'll remove the leatherman from my bag so it never comes out with me.
Plus i'd polished the leatherman blade pivot area and lubed it so it came out one handed on the thumb very easily. So maybe that feature of it might not mean even if its away locked in a bag its secure enough to try some sort of legal claim.
And I agree with you Drac, but the law doesn’t. As scapegoat explained, the police are not allowed to use their discretion in that scenario over the ‘lawful excuse’ bit with knife offences.
Indeed it may go all the way to court but I’m not sure the police are going to waste their time doing that if it were clear why you had it.
Yep. They might ignore their own guidelines and you might get lucky. It's a big roll of the dice though.
Looking specifically at the effective ban* on locking knives. What is the point? What does it achieve?
It's a safety feature, designed to prevent injury. Because of this it is a common feature on multi tools and small utility knives.
I don't know the stats, but I can't imagine Leathermans and the like are favoured by stabby types over a big stabby chef's knife. Even if they were, how much attention are they likely to pay to that aspect of the law?
What effect has this had on reducing knife crime?
It's bad law. It criminalises the law abiding, it forces people to choose less safe options. It does nothing, absolutely nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Convince me otherwise.
*I know you can have one with 'lawful excuse' but we have established that you can only prove that via a traumatic court appearance.
I’m struggling to see where the problem is.
The problem, like with a lot of other legislation, is that the law prevents perfectly law abiding people from doing what they've been doing, safely, for years in order to combat a small minority who go round committing a specific crime - in this case, stabbing people.
I'm unaware of the effectiveness of the knife carrying laws but stabbings don't appear to be diminishing in number.
Personally, I'm going to continue carrying a Leatherman or an Opinel as I see fit.
It does nothing, absolutely nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Convince me otherwise.
For a knife of less than 3in it is crap. The same could be said of most fixed blades of the same length though.
Which was what the lawyer/judge seemed to have decided on when decided a lock knife didnt count as a folding knife.
I don’t know the stats, but I can’t imagine Leathermans and the like are favoured by stabby types over a big stabby chef’s knife.
If you want to stab someone then yes something a tad bigger is best and ideally one with a crossguard. However if you want to slash someone then there is a long history of people using stanleys and the like.
A leatherman would less useful but other locking knives might work as well and writing a law to separate them would be tricky.
It does nothing, absolutely nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Convince me otherwise.
What it does is allow police to arrest folk with stabby knives before they stab someone
"I’m unaware of the effectiveness of the knife carrying laws but stabbings don’t appear to be diminishing in number."
They did in Glasgow. The new laws combined with high numbers of stop searches reduced knife crime and probably saved lives.
The laws themselves won't do anything. If a ned thinks here is almost no chance he will be searched he will keep carrying.
"By 2016-17, the number of people admitted to Glasgow’s hospitals with slashes and stab wounds had fallen by 65%."
" we increased stop and search, we spoke to the government and they changed the legislation to increase the sentence for carrying a knife. "
https://theweek.com/100066/how-glasgow-is-beating-knife-crime
What it does is allow police to arrest folk with stabby knives before they stab someone.
The police can arrest someone with ANY implement if they have reasonable suspicion that it is intended to be used for violence.
Is a 3" penknife with a non locking blade, which they could carry legally, practically any less stabby than a locking blade 3" inch pen knife which they can't. What is the logic?
How many scrotes are arrested with £100 Leathermans anyway?
What effect has this had on reducing knife crime?
I'm not arguing against controls on knives more generally, but those on small lock blades specifically.
What is the logic?
The logic is that they want to minimise peoples options to get stabby or slashy whilst allowing people to cut their organic sourdoughs and air matured salamis whilst out and about.
So they went for its ok if its under 3inches and folding.
The latter I think was chosen because fixed/retracting knives like stanleys are quite popular as weapons.
When it went to court a lawyer argued and the judge agreed (in several cases including appeals) that since a lock will stop the knife from folding it therefore doesnt count as one. Hence illegal.
How many scrotes are arrested with £100 Leathermans anyway?
Unlikely many but if they were made legal I expect the numbers sold would increase.
The number of fatal stabbings in England and Wales is at its highest level since records began more than 76 years ago.
Figures from the Office for National Statistics show 282 homicides were committed using a knife or sharp instrument in the year to March 2022.
This is a 19% rise compared with the previous year - and the highest annual total since records began in 1946, according to the ONS.
It doesn't mention what percentage were carried using a Leatherman®, however.
No one’s going to admit it on here, but I wonder if there’s a hypocritical crossover of people that partake in a bit of the old charlie of a weekend, but get oh so offended by knives.
wha!
I’m not offended by them in the slightest. I just find it amusing that some are claiming to need a knife on them. It’s just funny.
To answer the other question. The multi-tool does have a knife in it. Looking at the condition I don’t think it’s ever been used. It has also never left my Camelback and only ever comes out on bike rides where I take the Camelback. It’s not even really an active choice anymore, it’s just there.
Also, I have never partaken of the nose candy.
Brilliant thread this. Best part was Johnny Too Bad, but several other highlights.
I don't even like tomatoes, so you can slice them with a hammer for all I care?
No one’s going to admit it on here, but I wonder if there’s a hypocritical crossover of people that partake in a bit of the old charlie of a weekend, but get oh so offended by knives.
It’s likely to be the other way around I’d have thought.
This thread is peak STW 👍
Well done everyone! Keep it up 😉
It’s great ain’t it?, I’ll ask my mum to dig out her Xmas pics from 1984, think that was the year I got a Webley Tempest .22 air pistol, 4 boxes of pellets, Abu Garcia 7ft spinning rod & Abu Garcia spinning reel with maxima line and fishing box, and a Rambo knife (black) with compass on the end and fishing kit/matches in the handle. I was severely disappointed with the Rambo knife as it was very bendy and the blade was made of cheese. I got a very cool butterfly knife for my birthday at the end of January though so was very happy, along with a new KX80 motocross bike and a 22cc chainsaw as I used to help my dad in the woods, my job was to brash the trees before he would come along and cut them down, then I had to bing the pulp and throw the brash into the centre so the forwarder could collect.
Living in the wilds of Argyll was great as a kid
You only had air pistol?
Unrestricted .22 rifle for me at 8 years old, it had been my dad’s before that hence no restrictions on it. It would punch through 1/4” plywood from a hundreds away. Knives were a must for helping cut kindling for our fires too or sharpening the ground spike for the snares or nets when hunting with ferrets. No cheapy fake Rambo ones though, not good enough.
Living outside a market town in Northumberland was also great.
I wouldn’t, however, use it to prise the lids off tins – that’s what a screwdriver is for
And to think, I once held you in high regard.
the police are not allowed to use their discretion in that scenario over the ‘lawful excuse’ bit with knife offences. Only the courts are
"Allowed" or no, it's still reliant on them to start the process.
Looking specifically at the effective ban* on locking knives. What is the point? What does it achieve?
We've discussed this. The ban is specifically for fixed blade knives. In the eyes of the law (because yay, test cases) a locking knife when locked is effectively a fixed blade.
It’s bad law. It criminalises the law abiding, it forces people to choose less safe options. It does nothing, absolutely nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Convince me otherwise.
I'm wholly in agreement with you. But laws penalising the law-abiding whilst being impotent against criminals seems to be something of a theme of late.
What it does do however, and we've discussed this too, is empower the police to act without having to jump through hoops.
The police can arrest someone with ANY implement if they have reasonable suspicion that it is intended to be used for violence.
You make the point for the current law perfectly. Two groups of 3 lads stood outside a shop doing nothing other than chatting - the reasonable suspicion is pretty tenuous. "These 3 lads are in their 50s and whilst not actually carrying a tomato look the sort who might like to slice one at any moment so any stabby equipment on their person is surely for a good and honourable reason. But these 3 lads, well they are a bit young for tomato slicing and maybe a little 'dark' so fair play that's good enough reason to put them in the cells." The law is not to take knives off kids in the throws of battle but so they can approach in a time if "peace" and not get tied up in knots about why they can't have them because basically their don't look nice enough. A clear cut law. A clear cut law with no ambiguity and need to resort to profiling. No one gets the good stuff unless it's bloody obvious from what they are doing it's needed. Society all walk at the pace of the slowest. See speeding. If a few old boys don't get to carry their beloved knife of choice, that really is no Biggie. Other knives are available.
Is a 3″ penknife with a non locking blade, which they could carry legally, practically any less stabby than a locking blade 3″ inch pen knife which they can’t. What is the logic?
I'd say yes. Look at the opinel photo I put above. Once locked it is effectively the same as any 3 inch kitchen knife - A pretty standard and effective yoof weapon. Whilst I've never actually plunged a knife into a body, I did do a bit of training whilst still in uniform and a folding blade could get you seriously unstuck when actually stabbing with one. Conversely when tomato slicing (other food stuffs are available) or even whittling I'm really struggling to find a scenario where a lock is going to make me safer. I know it's there as a safety feature, but it's one I just don't think is that needed in normal non-stabby use.
Btw - I'm not saying folding blades are safe and could not be used as a weapon. Just that's where the line was drawn to give at least some concession to tomato slicing addicts so they can go about their food stuff butchery without breaking the law. Almost like a compromise was reached to help the police to do their job of keeping people safe and normal people not being untowardly prevented from carrying on effectively as normal.
That's the thing with safety features though. It's always an unnecessary hassle right up until the day it isn't.
I think my contributions to this thread are drawing to a close, I'm not sure the endless circular discussion will achieve much, and that's my fault as much as anyone's.
I do however leave you with some uplifting news. Whilst bemoaning the loss to my motorbike tool kit of my ancient (and now 'illegal') Gerber, I remembered another I had stashed away, first purchased in a US army PX in Germany as a fresh faced squaddie in the 1980s. Festering in a long forgotten box of junk in my garage. I couldn't quite remember, but on checking I found to my joy that it has the pliers and useful stuff, but crucially a non locking blade!
So once again I can cruise the Kings highway knowing I've made the world a safer place and free from the worry of becoming big Vern's bitch in cell block H. I know you've all been worried about that prospect as much as I have. Ciao 🙂
You only had air pistol?
Can’t carry an air rifle in a rucksack though, 😉
I know you’ve all been worried about that prospect as much as I have.
I'm actually worried that the adjustable spanner may be a forgery. And what's that green thing do?
And what’s that green thing do?
It's a part roll of electrical insulation tape, squashed to fit. I am now unduly worried about the provenance of my adjustable, are you pleased with yourself? 😉
Check this bad boy out ! On my car keys...all you really need if at all.
Been quite handy over the years 🙂
Epic tomato slicer...
This mostly only ever opened morale parcels, banding on pallets and bags of haribo.
Might have sliced some biltong once or twice. The only blood it drew was of a careless owner and a chicken on a SERE course.
These days I just have a spork.
Halcyon days for sure. 
This thread has been great, could easily have stopped after 10 posts but we're on 10 pages and I hope it goes for another 10.
For what it's worth as a country boy I quite often carry a knife and it regularly comes in handy. I do struggle to see how it could be justified if living in a town/city. I'm down to my last folding knife that locks open and when I break/lose it I fully intend to buy another from somewhere. I'm fully aware it's illegal but I don't care, it annoys me that I should have to risk a knife closing on my fingers because a minority of people feel the need to stab each other.
I’m fully aware it’s illegal but I don’t care, it annoys me that I should have to risk a knife closing on my fingers because a minority of people feel the need to stab each other
Hear, hear!
This thread may help people understand how all the responsible gun owners in the USA feel when people call for gun controls.
It makes me think that they're unhinged.
This thread may help people understand how all the responsible gun owners in the USA feel when people call for gun controls.
As a former responsible gun owner. No.
LAT
Full Member
This thread may help people understand how all the responsible gun owners in the USA feel when people call for gun controls.
I can pretty much guarantee that even the murderous ones think they are responsible gun owners, until they aren't.
It's human nature, just like everyone thinks they are great/safe car drivers.
For the sake of the baby Jesus won’t somebody think of the screwdrivers?
Sometimes a big knife is not enough.
What about Mugs?
Those Bikepakers and their Ti mugs, makes you think 🙂
^^ Damn good film that, much underrated. 👍
somafunk
Full Member
For the sake of the baby Jesus won’t somebody think of the screwdrivers?
Don't start of the great phillips Vs cross head debate for goodness sakes!
Having reviewed the contributions so far
John the farmer and Ian the telecoms engineer have a fairly decent reason for carrying a knife
Steve in accounts and Jeff in IT Support probably don't, and Daphne from payroll is definitely less likely to shag them after they've whipped out the leatherman to cut up their tomatoes and cheese on their lunch break
and Daphne from payroll is definitely less likely to shag them after they’ve whipped out the leatherman to cut up their tomatoes and cheese on their lunch break
I've got a personal affection for my Boker which is a gentleman's knife, as it is only 2 1/2" blade, and a cyclists knife as it is titanium. It's also illegal because it's A lock knife bit you can't have everything.
Ok, to be honest I'm not that concerned to tell everyone about it, but I do need to find out if I can actually post to this forum, this seemed as good as any for an excuse.
^^ Indeed you can/ have and welcome!👍
I think you might need a doctor gecko76. You seem to be suffering from cartoon head syndrome.
You might want to check the legality of the swordstick, they made a bunch of blades illegal even in your own house a while back 🙄
Yep, sword sticks are in the same category as 'Zombie' knives, switch blades etc. Illegal to own, sell etc. with heavy penalties. There is an exemption for antiques though, which means more than 100 years old. I'm not sure how you prove how old it is and unless you have some pretty convincing proof you could be in deep poo.
How can STW come to this? The home of the totally irrational fairness. Now tell me, is it fair that some people would have justifiable needs and others not based purely on their jobs? How elitist!.
More sensibly why not ban knives in the places where they have proved to be a problem and for the user group that creates the problems?
The whole thing also goes against the principles of our law as well. Basically you are guilty unless you prove your innocence.
The whole thing also goes against the principles of our law as well. Basically you are guilty unless you prove your innocence
So, you think if you were standing outside a bank wearing a ski mask & carrying a shotgun & a bag marked ‘swag’ the law would say the police need to prove you were intending to rob it.
To summarise we have a certain demographic who are arguing they are above the law because they are in the main white, middle aged, middle class and don’t live in a rough area.
Is that about right or are they arguing knife laws should be repealed just in case they need to peel an apple on the go?
You see the law applies equally and if you can argue peeling an apple as a legitimate reason so should anyone regardless of demographic.
the meantime mum pulled grandad’s swordstick out of the wardrobe
A bit of family loving.
More sensibly why not ban knives in the places where they have proved to be a problem and for the user group that creates the problems?
I Agree. Ban them in public places.
I Agree. Ban them in public places.
Unless you have a legitimate reason to need one in a public place.
(sorry, enjoying this too much to let it die yet)
Now tell me, is it fair that some people would have justifiable needs and others not based purely on their jobs?
Yes.
I need a laptop for my job but I dont generally need a knife.
A chef on the other hand would struggle without several.
To summarise we have a certain demographic who are arguing they are above the law because they are in the main white, middle aged, middle class and don’t live in a rough area.
You might see it that way, but what I think they are saying is that a knife is a useful, commonplace tool & is therefore a reasonable thing to carry as an everyday object. However it is used by some people as a weapon even though it is highly unlikely to be used by others as such. It is therefore reasonable to identify those people who use it as a weapon & apply the law to them & not to the others. I have a degree of sympathy for this because in a lot of cases it should be fairly evident given the context which category the person sits.
The fact of the matter is that a white, middle aged & middle class person is unlikely to be carrying a knife as a weapon (unless they are planning a specific murder). The statistics demonstrate who is using knives as weapons to stab random strangers or opposition gang members etc in the course of an argument.
Unfortunately this line of thought leads to an awful lot of these exceptions: not prosecuting competent, safe & yet speeding drivers being an obvious one. It also leads to miscarriages of justice when a working class black kid gets pulled for carrying a knife he was going to use on a Golden Delicious.
I'm a 55 year old furniture maker. When i'm wearing my work costume, I always have a 3" Festool lock knife in my pocket...and I don't give a flying f@ck. End of
*Pictures PolisherMan in his 'costume'
👀
The thread has been an interesting insight into mindsets certainly.
I think it'd be not unreasonable to sweep up all the 'angry at the world', anti this sort of law and it's curtailing of MY freedoms into an older male category. A 'boomer' or even 'gammon' label if you will. It's easy to see why this category of society have such a reputation for self orientation.
This is a classic of the genre...
I’m a 55 year old furniture maker. When i’m wearing my work costume, I always have a 3″ Festool lock knife in my pocket…and I don’t give a flying f@ck. End of
Man doing something totally legal (because of context) who 'don’t give a flying f@ck'. Go you, you rebel without a cause. Not just that - 'End of' no less. Nothing more to say. Angry at the world for a law that has been crafted to allow exactly what he's doing to be perfectly fine. I can't tell if it's because he's too daft to appreciate it's all good, too lazy to bother reading more to find out.....or just predisposed to be angry.
Anyway, it lovely and sunny so I'm off for a gravel bike ride. Gravel - that'll make someone angry too no doubt, should have said 90's mtb ride. And.....nope....can't think of a good reason why I'll need a knife. I'll report back and confirm I survived without having needed to slice a tomato, whittle a stick or molest a horse's hoof and been left tragically bereft of the tools for the job.
I think it’d be fair to sweep up all the ‘angry at the world’, anti this sort of law and it’s curtailing of MY freedoms into an older male category.
Nah. Don’t agree with that. This happens across every generation, it’s just that it’s framed in a slightly different way. When you are young this is known as Sticking it to the Man
Unless you have a legitimate reason to need one in a public place.
Good idea. Why haven’t the government thought of this?
Meanwhile in the mini kitchen of the IT department at ...
Next episode.... To follow... Open to all 🙂
Without these laws we would not have this.
You might see it that way, but what I think they are saying is that a knife is a useful, commonplace tool & is therefore a reasonable thing to carry as an everyday object.
It doesn’t matter how I see it but what the law states. Thinking you can pick and choose to comply is the heart of the debate. If you think the law is an ass start a campaign to change it but ignoring it based on your belief I won’t get caught because of who I am needs challenging.
", I always have a 3″ Festool lock knife"
Festool make lock knives? Are they any good?
"Without these laws we would not have this"
That is pretty cool to be honest, though a bit scary at the same time to think there was that much weaponry out there on the streets
Anyway, more importantly, without these laws I wouldn't have got my first 10 page thread wot I started so there!