You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Would usually have something on me when I was working on a farm - but then that is not carrying in public. I was pretty handy with a billhook. Mind I hate to think how many laws I would have been breaking in other areas. Given 3,000 new offences were created by the New Labour lot alone.....
Had a good wander around Dundreggan once - found the flags down and nobody about. Well worth a visit.
@soafunk it’s not that much different now.
95% of the times I've got a not locking folder in my pocket. It gets used multiple times every day. I can totally see why for some people it maybe not be a useful tool but for me it is.
If I'm doing jobs at home or in the garden I'll probably have a locking spyderco because it's safe. Same if I'm camping or having a picnic.
You must eat a lot of croissants.
Seven pages and all I’ve learned is it’s best not to eat tomatoes at work because it sounds like a right hassle. Also some of you weird bastards carry spread around with you. I said this on page 4(?) but it needs repeating just to outline the absurdity. I needs to carry a blade officer because butter!
All those who leave a leatherman in the car. I used to do this, I don't anymore because the scrotes found a way to open everyone's motors and go through them. Lost my beloved leatherman wave and chunky victorinox amongst other things. 😞
Will never be replaced, other priorities for the cash these days.
If you need a knife at work, use a knife that is kept at work either in the kitchen for food duties or in the workplace for work use. If you need a knife at home, keep a knife or knives at home: kitchen, garage, shed etc.
The other thing I have not seen mentioned, though not read exhaustively, is what happens if you lose, drop or have the knife pick pocketed. It could fall into the hands of a naughty person who does something illegal with it, either by threat ring or stabbing etc. How would you then feel that your knife was used to harm someone?
Can't tell if you're taking the piss or serious?
What’s a threat ring? Some sort of organised bullying?
Guy at work used to bring a small kitchen knife on the train with him to cut apples at work (work provided the apples) had to explain to him why bringing a 'fixed' knife prob just over 3in blade in a bag on the train was a bad idea especially when he didn't have an apple in his bag, 'but I'm not some scrote wanting to stab someone etc'. Probably on 100k + a year.
As a proud Englishman I think I should be able to carry a broadsword around in public if I so wish
Well, it's now obvious that the next time I go to pick up a bike part or whatever from a forum member id better go tooled up.
Half of the forum is full on tip of the spear and all they care about is operating cutting tomatoes.
😉
In fact, this guy's time has come. He'll be my +1 on bike part pick ups.
Might as well post this PSA here!
Victorinox Super Tinker, Swiss Army Knife, Medium, Multi Tool, 14 Functions, Blade, Bottle Opener, Red
£22.
^^ Nightmare, when you just need some tomatoes and a bit of cheese from the coop.
what happens if you lose, drop or have the knife pick pocketed. It could fall into the hands of a naughty person who does something illegal with it, either by threat ring or stabbing etc. How would you then feel that your knife was used to harm someone?
Blimey. Peak STW hand-wringing.
(work provided the apples) had to explain to him why bringing a ‘fixed’ knife prob just over 3in blade in a bag on the train was a bad idea especially when he didn’t have an apple in his bag, ‘but I’m not some scrote wanting to stab someone etc’. Probably on 100k + a year.
£100k/year and free apples? Bastard!
Part of my work involves visiting clients in their own homes. Should I go without my tools?
Are we still getting knickers twisted about this? If you need specific tools when you visit clients then you are golden. Unless you don't actually need the tools but want to use 'might' (as in, never have - but I could conceive of a reason if I squint hard enough) as some sort of fake reason, then you are on dodgy ground. Trying to pick holes in a law that's clearly in place for a very obvious reason says more about the picker than the law itself.
And in peak double standards mode - I quite fancy that SAK about at that price - a lot smaller and lighter than my leatherman and nearly as useful for some little trips.
Blimey. Peak STW hand-wringing.
TBF I did have a dinky little SAK that I used in an old job which I'm 90% sure was 'permanently borrowed' by a colleague who subsequently denied all knowledge.
We're talking about a tiny, non-locking knife here, good for opening boxes and slicing snacks but not much more, but yeah SAKs do get stolen by workplace magpies...
"Are we still getting knickers twisted about this? "
No, we're not. It's a rhetorical question aimed at the hard of thinking (and there appear to be a few here) who cannot imagine why anyone could possibly need to carry a knife.
The other thing I have not seen mentioned, though not read exhaustively, is what happens if you lose, drop or have the knife pick pocketed.
Thats why I always carry my leatherman with all the blades etc extended in my pocket.
Okay I get through a lot of coats, jeans and plasters but anyone trying their hand at pickpocketing is going to regret it.
No, we’re not. It’s a rhetorical question aimed at the hard of thinking (and there appear to be a few here) who cannot imagine why anyone could possibly need to carry a knife.
There’s no one on here like that. There’s those who claim there is and then there’s those say they need a knife to cut tomatoes at their office, slice apples on the trails and cut up cheese into little cubes. No one has said an anyone with trade that involves the use of tools regular shouldn’t have one.
To be honest it seems like there are more people on this thread obsessed about those who occasionally use a knife to cut cheese and tomatoes than people on this thread who actually occasionally use a knife to cut cheese and tomatoes!
Part of my work involves visiting clients in their own homes. Should I go without my tools?
It’s a rhetorical question aimed at the hard of thinking (and there appear to be a few here) who cannot imagine why anyone could possibly need to carry a knife.
The hard of thinking being those who can’t grasp simple legislation around carrying a knife for work purposes?
(5)Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
(a)for use at work;
There’s no one on here like that.
Hmm? There are plenty who've said 'I've never found a need for a knife when out of the house' or words to that effect. The clear implication being 'if I don't, you don't'. It seems to correlate closely to those assuming everyone works in an office, or lives in an urban area etc.
No just this thread, but a general observation of STW (and the wider internet) is a big proportion of people project their personal circumstances and experiences on to others. They have great difficulty imagining that due to different circumstances and life experience, others may have different but equally valid views.
ashhh
Full Member
Bargain that- cheers poopscoop!
No problem matey! 👍
The problem with that is that you are indirectly suggesting that you should be profiled as fine, and others profiled as risky. I know you didn’t mean harm by this but young people, especially young black men, really struggle with the unfairness of profiling. If you don’t think they should be singled out, you shouldn’t also expect to be treated differently to them.
+1
What you've basically done is describe white male privilege.
could pop down to the harbour in town (kirkcudbright, Galloway) and if the boats are in find 40+ fishermen all with knives, or the 50 odd folk heading to work in the fish factory a few hundred yards away, they all will be carrying razor sharp knives whether they be queenie, scallop or fileting knives, strange how you are so very sure of yourself in proclaiming there’s no need.
And how many of them are making a tomato sandwich in the office kitchenette?
It's a daft comparison anyway, should I be allowed to wander round the office with an AR-15 because some professionals in a completely un=related industry down the road carry and SA80 for work? By the same token I don't carry a multimeter, because I'm not an electrician, there's just no need.
Hmm? There are plenty who’ve said ‘I’ve never found a need for a knife when out and about’ or words to that effect. The clear implication being ‘if I don’t, you don’t’. It seems to correlate closely to those assuming everyone works in an office, or lives in an urban area etc.
I'm not going to go back up and check but just assuming there are......
Does your definition of 'out and about' also include traveling to a job where you are on the tools? Mine doesn't. 'Out and about' would be wandering around the shops, out for an evening in the pub or travelling to a job where the most physical you are going to get is counting paperclips (or interfering with the aforementioned tomatoes or cheese). In the same manner, my day job involves regularly tooling up 12yr olds with Stanley blades and arming 15 year olds with chisels. I don't just encourage them to hold them - I insist. But using my situation to somehow suggest that anyone saying there is no good reason for kids to have knifes was wrong would be borderline retarded thinking.
borderline retarded thinking.
Is that aimed at me?
You do know that it's not all that tricky to get hold of a knife in the UK, don't you? I don't think knife crime is going to significantly drop if folk stop taking small, folding knives to work to cut up tomatoes or apples.
I might be wrong, mind you.
Is that aimed at me
Depends if you are carrying 😉
More seriously, anyone using one scenario to try to undermine the logic of another is pretty daft yes. And not doing much for the overall conversation.
Also, to my eternal shame I spelt the multiple of knife as knifes and it's too late to edit 🤦♂️
‘Out and about’ would be wandering around the shops, out for an evening in the pub or travelling to a job where the most physical you are going to get is counting paperclips (or interfering with the aforementioned tomatoes or cheese).
There you go. We obviously lead different lives and my 'out and about' is very, very different to yours. Both valid experiences as long as neither of is is telling the other what they should and shouldn't do based on their own experiences.
More seriously, anyone using one scenario to try to undermine the logic of another is pretty daft yes.
I 100% agree and that is exactly the point I was trying to make. Someone (for example), saying that because their circumstances mean that they can never imagine needing to use a knife out of the house or workplace means that others who do are 'daft', 'retarded' or whatever other insult they want to throw around.
BTW, a wink emoji doesn't excuse a very offensive insult especially using a pejorative term for people with learning difficulties that most people stopped using decades ago.
There you go. We obviously lead different lives and my ‘out and about’ is very, very different to yours. Both valid experiences as long as neither of is is telling the other what they should and shouldn’t do based on thier own experiences.
So, to be clear.....your concept of 'out and about' includes travelling to a place of work where you'll need, for the actual job, something more pointy and stabby than a <3" folding non-locking knife? If so - you are going to have help me here - could you point out one single contribution which says that that should not be considered perfectly legal and normal? Just one will be fine. Clue - you are not going to find one - it's in your head.
BTW, a wink emoji doesn’t excuse a very offensive insult especially using a pejorative term for the mentally ill that most people stopped using decades ago.
Fair enough. Yes, out of line. But it's nothing to do with mental health - it's learning difficulties you were thinking of.
So, to be clear…..your concept of ‘out and about’ includes travelling to a place of work.
Nope, not even close. I said none of that (I'm retired ffs - why would I) you literally made those words up and tried to put them in my mouth. You crack on, have the last word using whatever insults you like if it makes you feel better, but there is zero value in me engaging with you anymore.
AHH apologies - my whole contribution was actual in response to the user above who said
Part of my work involves visiting clients in their own homes. Should I go without my tools?
I hadn't clocked that you'd taken up his/her cause.
On the upside, my insult (now regretted) was aimed at them not you!
That's left me a bit confused now though - what do you do in your 'out and about' which requires a knife which would be illegal under the current setup.
"travelling to a job where the most physical you are going to get is counting paperclips (or interfering with the aforementioned tomatoes or cheese)."
And whilst you're at it how about not insulting me either. Having just unloaded 2 shipping containers full of kayaks I'm now stacking them vertically in the warehouse, each one weighting between 30 and 40kg - so slightly heavier than a paperclip. Just because I have a workplace kitchen doesn't mean I work in an office either.
How about just not insulting anyone?
I always have a Boker SAK style knife on my car keyring....
Carry it pretty much everywhere..
Just used it to cut up tomatoes...
It's got a wood saw on it, bottle opener, and screwdriver...
I rarely, if ever, think about using it to stab someone 😘
If I got stopped (can't think why I would) I've little worry I'd get grief for it.
It's a legal thing, and I've reasonable reason for carrying it.
DrP
No just this thread, but a general observation of STW (and the wider internet) is a big proportion of people project their personal circumstances and experiences on to others.
Indeed as in thinking buttering a croissant is essential reason to carry one.
I have always had a SAK Bantam simple <2.5" folder in my pocket for the last 25 years. Think I am on my third now. Dont think have ever sliced atomato or apple with it. Dont have it on me if I go out for a pint. Never really worried about it tbh. I wouldn't have anything heftier on me as no need and stupid to with current legislation.
Indeed as in thinking buttering a croissant is essential reason to carry one.
You have me at a disadvantage, I thought I'd read the whole thread, but I have missed the original croissant comment you keep referencing. On the face of it, it does seem to be a pretty tenuous 'justification'. It seems to have become quite significant to you though? How many people claimed that as their use case? 5? 10? Enough to undermine the case of anyone who believes they have a legit reason to occasionally use a knife?
And whilst you’re at it how about not insulting me either. Having just unloaded 2 shipping containers full of kayaks I’m now stacking them vertically in the warehouse, each one weighting between 30 and 40kg – so slightly heavier than a paperclip. Just because I have a workplace kitchen doesn’t mean I work in an office either.
Well, with all that manliness on show I reckon you could carry a machete on the tube perfectly legit. Go you. Tomatoes, cheese, maybe even some of Simon's chorizo, knock yourself out. I'm befuddled by the relevance of a workplace kitchen though. Is this key to knife carrying legitimacy?
That chorizo does look nice - I might have to branch out.....
Meanwhile I've been looking for a legal folding knife to replace my opinel and rather like some of the Swiss army alox series.
Love the descriptions on the website - I feel i may well be the target audience....
"on the go snacks"
"Explore new trails and conquer new markets"
Trolling barstewards!
This thread has actually made me rethink stuff based on Scapegoat's useful input. I was complacent about having locking multitools in vehicles because 'I'm a non-threatening old fella and no one is going to search me'. Seems that complacency is unjustified.
I have (or had) an ancient Gerber multitool in a tool roll under the locking seat of my motorbike, along with a small adjustable spanner, zip ties and a roll of electrical tape. This combo has been used loads and is ten times more useful than the crappy Triumph OEM tool kit. Also and equally ancient, a Leatherman in the car winter bag with torch, blankets etc.
The trouble is, useful as they have been, the Gerber and Leatherman both have the temerity to incorporate an injury preventing safety feature now deemed to be illegal. So I've just removed them. It's possible to imagine based on Scapegoat's info, a scenario in an RTA or whatever where they came to the attention of a keen copper and I end up with a criminal record. Not worth it.
First world problems, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I'm just frustrated that to my mind, the only real effect of all this is inconveniencing or criminalising the law abiding. I can't imagine many stabby types use £100 multitools or that even if they do, they are going to stop because they're told it's a bit naughty.
Maybe the world is safer place because of this but I'm not convinced.
Yep, 'old man shouts at cloud' etc. 🙂
Meanwhile I’ve been looking for a legal folding knife
Yes that’s the point many of us have raised, there are options to stay within the law.
@simdondbarnes did you take the table with you onto the moors too? The plate is impressive enough.
I win though.
I have (or had) an ancient Gerber multitool in a tool roll under the locking seat of my motorbike,
So, within the law.
Did we all suddenly have catastrophic common sense failure, is there some sort of "STW Page 7" rule, which is about the point in the conversation where we all collectively lose our minds?
Some people don't see a reason to carry a pocket knife. That's fine.
Some people think that a pocket knife is a handy thing to have. That's fine too, the law is (now) very clear.
Some people think they're Mick Dundee and cannot grok the notion of leaving cutting equipment indoors. That's less fine.
Hurling around words like "retarded" is what leads to interesting threads being closed.
why anyone could possibly need to carry a knife.
Unless it is necessary for your trade then the word you’re looking for is want not need. Stating you need to carry one just comes across a bit, well, unhinged.
Have we done kitchen knives in campervans yet? 😆
So, within the law.
Well no, it isn't. It has handy pliers, bottle openers, screwdrivers and all that, but it also has a small knife blade that locks. Therefore the onus falls on me to prove that I have a good reason to have it. I think I do, a very good reason, but it isn't up to me to decide is it? It's up to the police and courts and as per Scapegoat's post, it's far from guaranteed that they would share my view.
Deleted. Double post.
I as the OP, I have, I don't think ever said I need to carry a knife. I think my original post was basically along the lines of how I didn't really think that my tomato and cheese habit might get me thrown in gaol with no hope of release. I thought that my little locking opinel would be within the law. Subsequently it has been pointed out (quite forcefully by some and more persuasively by others like scapegoat) that this is not actually the case.
A couple of us have bemoaned the good old days when you could brandish a broadsword with impunity and then I think almost all of us have bowed down to the modern age and looked at getting a small inoffensive legal carry swiss army knife to replace our small inoffensive illegal carry cheese knife of choice.
I agree completely that nobody outside the trades, even the most devoted trailside croissant scoffer (I've never actually buttered a croissant on the moor-that post was a joke in case it wasn't massively obvious) needs a lock knife but its sometimes useful to have a small blade if you are so inclined and like to be prepared.
Phew anyway no need for insults - just really nice cheese!
I just want to hear of anyone on a ride with Drac when he asks if anyone can cut this/food/thing for him, and gets a round 'Go and f off' 😆
Haribo don’t need sliced.
@blokeuptheroad you have it locked away in your vehicle, not carrying it around for tomato emergencies
What you’ve basically done is describe white male privilege.
Yebbut...... if you go back and have a look at the sentencing guidelines, it's kinda built into the eventual outcome.
There's a whole section devoted to categorising the different scenarios and factors around the unlawful possession. It specifically categorises those with certain associations, previous history, the nature of the carrying (threatening, brandishing, using etc) in an upper tier, and eventually drops down into the lower order of scenarios in which Mr Gordon Goodcitizen simply forgot he had his pruning saw in his overalls when he nipped out for a pint after a heavy day in the Rose Border. All common sense will tell us that he doesn't need the same punishment as the Swinley Mandem out tooled up with Zombie Knives and Machetes.
Top of the tree:
Culpability A
Possession of a bladed article
Possession of a highly dangerous weapon*
Offence motivated by, or demonstrating hostility based on any of the following characteristics or presumed characteristics of the victim: religion, race, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity
Bottom of the pile
Culpability D
Possession of weapon falls just short of reasonable excuse
The sentencing is therefore as we would reasonably expect. Without actually saying it, the law here does indeed favour the "well to be fair I didn't actually come across an unsliced tomato this week officer, are you telling me I can't have that with me on the off-chance?"
@blokeuptheroad you have it locked away in your vehicle, not carrying it around for tomato emergencies
I know, but it makes no difference in law. In either case, if the police became aware you'd have to prove lawful excuse. Whilst it seems entirely sensible that a multi tool in a vehicle tool kit would be exempt, it isn't - if it has a locking blade. The law in that case is black and white. If I'm riding the bike and I have the key to access it (the ignition key), it's in my possession in a public space.
And as @scapegoat explained, from his personal experience, motorists who come to police attention for other reasons, but have a Leatherman (with locking blade) or whatever in their vehicle fall foul of that all the time. They are automatically charged with possession of a bladed weapon. The police being too worried about accusations of bias, will leave it to the court to decide if there is lawful excuse. Too big a risk to take.
It looks like the Leatherman Bond is the UK legal non locking blade version of choice for those that feel they need an EDC at hand at all times for emergency tomato situations and other high stress moments.
And with a name like that who's not going to get their special agent tactical rocks off when walking around with it in your pocket.
yes it does. It’s locked away in case you need to do some repairs.
To you or the courts? I'd like to see the case law or a quote from the legislation for that? Any kind of citation would be welcome?
I carry my Leatherman Wave+ at work 8hrs a day. I use both knife blades for opening bags, boxes, packaging, cutting tape, stripping the outer insulation off multi core flex. I use the wire stripper and the pliers and the scissors and the bottle opener. The files also see regular use and so do the wire cutters. The interchangeable screwdriver bit also gets lots of use. Both blades lock and I have no idea whether this is legal or not! If I'm off on a big ride I'll take my Leatherman Rebar, sometimes pliers are handy (for example when a lump of Peak District hit my chainring and bent it like a Pringle. I couldn't have straightened that out with a multi-tool! I've had one dog-walking incident where the puppy got tangled in brambles and I had to cut the bramble so we could retrieve her and then had to snip her fur to get rid of the bramble. Oh and I once cut a tangled hedgehog loose from some discarded netting. Never, ever had to slice a tomato or a chorizo with a pocket knife though.
why anyone could possibly need to carry a knife.
Unless it is necessary for your trade then the word you’re looking for is want not need. Stating you need to carry one just comes across a bit, well, unhinged.
Well, among any number of situations where I’ve found a folding, legal pocket knife to be a useful thing to have, is cutting zip ties, and the sort of welded thick plastic packaging that things like SD Cards come packed in, and then prove almost impossible to open easily.
I’ve been in that situation, I found the SD card I had in my camera was full, and I hadn’t brought a spare, so I found somewhere that sold them, but the only thing I had to open the package was a very small folding knife on a keyring, which would barely scratch the plastic unless pressed hard, which meant the blade kept trying to close on my fingers. The shop wouldn’t open it for me, ‘for safety reasons’, so it took me bloody ages trying to cut the plastic with the silly little knife without repeatedly putting deep cuts into my fingers.
That can’t happen with the Pilar I carry, because it’s specifically designed to not close on a finger accidentally.
With zip ties, yes, you can use wire cutters or scissors, but honestly, carrying a pair of scissors around in your pocket is an indication of an accident just waiting to happen! Running with scissors, anyone?
Plus, the Pilar isn’t exactly designed to be a stabby thing, it’s completely the wrong shape. It is, however, very good for removing splinters and thorns, one I frequently get from the damaged wooden frames, or bosses, that archery targets are pinned to, and the other from spikey garden shrubs and hedges, and when out walking in the woods and countryside.
I wouldn’t, however, use it to prise the lids off tins - that’s what a screwdriver is for, something I certainly wouldn’t carry around with me!
One of those makes for a vicious and deadly weapon.
I cannot think of an occasion I have needed a knife and there is not one to hand - because all the times I need a knife I am in a house apart from picnics where I would have my SAK
Ah yes of course the shop wouldn’t open it for you, we believe you.
With zip ties, yes, you can use wire cutters or scissors, but honestly, carrying a pair of scissors around in your pocket is an indication of an accident just waiting to happen!
I very rarely cut zip ties, but lift the tongue with a sharp non-knife implement and undo them so they can be reused. You should see my used zip-tie collection, it's marvellous.
Indeed as in thinking buttering a croissant is essential reason to carry one.
Your wooden spoon however, Im sure you would never leave home without that.
but lift the tongue with a sharp non-knife implement
You mean like a small No1 size flat bladed screwdriver ?.
But something you carry on your person at all times.
Well i've been meaning to suggest this for a while.
Worth a separate group buy thread for south Ingerland members maybe?
https://trade.wattsfarms.co.uk/products/tomato-sliced-2-5mm-1kg
because all the times I need a knife I am in a house
Long distance cycle touring.? Or do others just go feral and just gnaw on a block of cheese / chorizo / chicken /veg
Infact never mind the Leatherman. The msr camp kitchen comes with not a locking blade but a fixed blade.
Should I hand my self in now save yous the trouble of reporting me ?
just go feral and just gnaw on a block of cheese / chorizo / chicken /veg
yes
yes
Why though
Because you are actually feral or because you believe you cannot carry an implement for purposes of making your meals .
I know, but it makes no difference in law.
yes it does. It’s locked away in case you need to do some repairs.
To you or the courts? I’d like to see the case law or a quote from the legislation for that?
I'll take the silence as there isn't any. I'm not sure 'but Drac said it was OK' would swing it with the cops.
Why though
Because you are actually feral or because you believe you cannot carry an implement for purposes of making your meals .
Partly the first bit and partly the fact that I’ve never felt the need as an adult to carry a knife. Also I don’t go bike packing so any food I carry can easily be eaten by hand. I also like eating by hand too. If I wanted to carry an implement for making meals, a knife wouldn’t be top of the list. I have a small multi-tool in my camelback. It stays in there and has been used on rare occasions.
I’ve never felt the need as an adult to carry a knife.
I have a small multi-tool in my camelback. It stays in there and has been used on rare occasions.
Does it have a knife blade on it? Because if it does, the first statement is untrue is it not?
I very rarely cut zip ties, but lift the tongue with a sharp non-knife implement and undo them so they can be reused. You should see my used zip-tie collection, it’s marvellous.
Same. Such a waste to cut and discard. One of the things I use the wee knife for, thats usually always in my pocket.
I've always got an Outlery set in my truck. As well as my other stuff 🤣
