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Remove 4 old (30+years) doors & hang 4 new.
All need cutting on 3 sides top,bottom & latch side. No frame is square, no floor level (anything up 20mm to nothing) New hinges onto doors & into EXACTLY the same place as the old. Remove old jambs, clean up frames of all the old gloss to allow flush fitting of new jambs. New handles of which two were privacy handles for wc & bathroom,mortice latches & strike plates.
Cutting to be done in the garden.
Vacuum afterwards.
Time to include collecting doors,jambs.
Doors were cheap 6 panel grained.
I'd struggle to get that done in two days. 😆
(IANAC)
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I'll ask them once they're finished
Why are you asking OP - is it to gauge what quotes/estimates you've had?
come on Jambalaya - this is a thread made for you !
Depends how fussy you are on the finish. Reckon a day should see four doors hung. Do the jambs really need replacing?
Do the jamb really need replacing?
Generally, it's a good idea to replace the jams when fitting a new door, as it's an easier job to fit them with jams taken off - they tend to come off in more than three pieces. 🙂 And to be fair, it's one of the shortest parts of the job.
Are we talking jambs or stops? Surely taking the jambs out is quite a job
how far away is the garden?
you want new hinges fitted to existing holes?
but you put me off the job with the cheap replacements
where are they stored currently?
what quality are the new fittings?
will you hand over the cash and sign that the doors all work, saving me from weekly callouts when something moves/shifts/swells/shrinks/changes?
Are we talking jambs or stops?
Good point!
I'd assume he meant stops as he was talking about internal doors. But if he's talking jambs...
I did the job a week ago for MiL/FiL. They haven't paid in full and is now complaining. I got a phonecall this evening from FiL asking why he still owes some money as he has since spoken to a carpenter and he can fit a door in 2.5 hrs. Im fuming. I gave them a reduced labour rate and all the doors, furniture & jambs at trade. I sourced quality hinges from a supplier 10 miles away, doors and handles from howdens, jambs from Travis. Took me all-in two days. Everything routed and square, hinges and the mortice latch plate tight as...really did a pucker job. Had to clean out all the old paint out of the existing hinge recesses to get a good clean fit etc. I tried to explain everything that went into it and he wasn't interested. So I told him to keep his money and the next time he wants doors, hinges etc at trade prices, all sourced and delivered for free,fitted at a reduced rate by someone who turns up with 4 grands worth of kit that he should call the guy that can do it all in 2.5hrs.
Oh crikey...working for in-laws. You have my deepest sympathy. If it was replacing the jambs, then 2 days sounds quite fair. A lot of the "I can fit 8 doors in a day" guys work on new-build sites where the doors and frames come as a kit and they don't have to worry about making a perfectly rectangular door fit the irregular quadrangle that an old door opening has become.
Sorry I mean the door stops which were approx. 35mmx 10mm although they could be called jambs..
Hinges were good quality 100mm brass @ £10 a pair. Handles pretty cheap quality 'victorian brass' trade price £18
Thought you did - but it still sounds like a couple of days work to me - especially trying to wang new doors into old frames. Been there a few times fitting engineered oak doors into old frames - not fun. 😐
That's a tough one, but think of the Brownie points you'll have with the Mrs
@ soobalias
The old screw holes were wood-filled and glued so as the new screws have something to bite into.
Are the doors beechwood? In my experience it will feel like it takes ages from the start but they will say we have only just begun. Could you not take the old doors off first? That might make it quicker for them - especially if you take them down to the tip yourself. Only probably worth it if you have a big car as breaking up is hard to do.
In short, it's going to take some time but I think you will be on top of the world when it's finished.
I'd not read the reason for your post - apologies if I sounded flippant. I think a proper, quality job would take more than two days - you were bloody quick considering...
Sounds like you've done a great job and they are ungrateful.
Including supply and collection of materials and clearing site/ disposing old doors, I would have allowed and charged for 3 days labour plus materials.
Mates rates and work for family rarely ends well. Every day is a school day 😉
My 1st guess would have been 2 days for that lot. Matey might be able to hang a door in 2.5hrs if it's new frame, new door etc. but doing a proper job with old stuff can be a nightmare and eats time.
You've done the right thing, if he won't pay you what he's asked, despite being family then just never work for them again.
I once fell out with my Uncle over a kitchen/bathroom quote. I quoted £4k which was about half of what it should have cost at the time as I was tight for work. He said it was far too much and got a guy in who was £50 a day, the guy was there for 12 weeks and had 3 goes at tiling the Bathroom before being chucked off site with the job half done. How I enjoyed the phone call asking me to come and 'sort it out' Never work for family or do favours, it only ever bites you in the arse!
Joiner mate fitted 13 new doors to our house, he did around 3 doors a day. I had no problem with his work rate or quality, I was also [s]helping[/s] hindering where I could.
In laws taking the piss.
It depends.
If the job is to start on a Monday it will take longer because I always get down on Mondays. Also if it's any other day and it's raining.
On Tuesdays I have to do my post round and people are always asking me to hang on for a minute so it ends up taking me twice as long. So I won't be able to work Tuesdays.
Of course if we get on really well and I end up feeling close to you, then I won't be down. I'll be on top of the world and the work will go much quicker.
"Are the doors beechwood? In my experience it will feel like it takes ages from the start but they will say [b]we have only just begun[/b]. Could you not take the old doors off first? That might make it quicker for them - especially if you take them down to the tip yourself. Only probably worth it if you have a big car as [b]breaking up is hard to do.[/b]In short, it's going to take some time but I think you will be [b]on top of the world[/b] when it's finished."
Genius. 😀
"FiL asking why he still owes some money as he has since spoken to a carpenter and he can fit a door in 2.5 hrs"
I ****ing hate people who are too stupid/ignorant/arrogant to take the time to find out why some jobs take a lot longer than others, and why some trades seem relatively very expensive. Often, it's the same kind of people who think their massive salaries/hourly rates are perfectly justifiable, and how 'entitled' they are to everything. Grr! 😡
Our place is a veritable Victorian nightmare; essentially sound, but not a straight line in the place. Old plaster with horsehair and lath! God alone knows what's in the paint. Having seen the window guys in action last year, I have no issue with paying large sums of money to people who can do such things. Years of training, working for shit money to gain experience, huge sums invested in tools (our guys all used Festool stuff; it's not cheap), and having to deal with arseholes who claim a mate down the pub/golf club/Masonic lodge knows someone who can do it for 0.3% of the cost.
Tymbian; you have my sympathy.
Tymbian your inlaws sound a right set of ****ers, no offence like.
I put a path down for fil a couple of weeks ago. Saturday admittedly but me and the mrs were done for two. He gave me a box of stella and a 100 quid which I didn't want!
I **** hate people who are too stupid/ignorant/arrogant to take the time to find out why some jobs take a lot longer than others
I know. It's like there's a kind of rush, all over the world.
"A lot of the "I can fit 8 doors in a day" guys work on new-build sites where the doors and frames come as a kit and they don't have to worry about making a perfectly rectangular door fit the irregular quadrangle that an old door opening has become."
They don't have to worry about actually doing the job properly, from a lot of the 'work' I've seen. Many of the professional tradespeople I know say a fair bulk of their work is fixing shoddy jobs in new builds. And don't get my electrician mate started...
Bruneep.
There's no over spray on the paper so I'm assuming they've not started painted yet.
However the paint is glossy so they've not rubbed it down.
It will be done in a couple of hours but all the paint will fall off.
Also I would have taken the nut off the aerial.
@geetee1972 I reckon we'd get on fine. Thursdays not good for me though as I need an early finish. Don't know what I'm doing Friday yet..
& yes..Festool and Mafell tools here too.
I stay clear of new build 'house-bashing' as it doesn't do 'it' for me. You're just putting up with someone's else's rushed/ botched job.
Genius
*Bows*. I thank you!
No one else noticed! Couple more in there if you look too!
Reading this is starting to make me feel better. Couldn't get to sleep properly last night as I was so cross. It boils down to my MiL/ FiL thinking I've ripped them off by deliberately dragging the job out..believing someone who didn't see the job over me who they've known for almost 30 years. It's gonna be difficult to come back from this.
Hopefully your other half is being supportive...
It's a hard lesson to learn, but rest easy knowing that this will cost them a lot more than you in the long run. And there will be no riding time wasted doing odd jobs for them in future.
My SO is spot on. Supportive and angry also. I believe she sent a text or two last night..
Last time we had doors hung, it was three days to hang five doors into existing frames. No work on the door frames, just trim the door to size, fit hinges & handle. That seemed excessive tbh.
In laws can be amazing or the exact opposite. My late father-in-law burnt his bridges with me as a result. It's abysmal the way people can end up treating you - those who should know you well and care about you...
Dickheads!
If it took you 2 days including all the running round then that's less than 3 hours per door plus the running round. Hardly a rip off over the 2.5 hour guy.
Tymbian; hope it gets sorted out. They definitely owe you an apology. I've stepped in to back people up in similar situations; some folk have no idea just what's involved in a job, and see the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I'm actually currently trying to negotiate a fair payment for some photography I did recently; the publisher is trying to argue my invoice is 'excessive', and the friend who I did the work for/with (illustration of an article he wrote) is fully backing me. It's not even a massive sum! I think people just think 'oh you just press a button on a camera'. Hmm. A camera plus kit that cost thousands, post work done on a computer system that wasn't cheap either, time, travelling etc. That's before we get into the countless hours spent in college, and the decades spent learning and refining my craft. People simply don't appreciate what goes into you being able to do something they can't.
This is a discussion I have with clients on an all-too-regular basis. The general public seem to completely fail to see the skill and expertise required particularly in renovation/heritage work, and happily compare say repairing a lath-and-plaster wall in a heritage clay mix with a dab of polyfilla. Boils my piss it does!
I've got a bit over a quarter of a million pounds worth of doorsets to fit in an old chapel, what are you doing this weekend tymbian 😉
I tried, early on 🙁No one else noticed! Couple more in there if you look too!
@ 40mpg...I'm working but feel free to pm me. Where are you situated?
Going off at a tangent here but I also get the " can you quote for a fence..something nice..oh yes exotic hardwood this hardwood that, concealed fixings? Yes please. Hardwood decking also please..yup laid at 45deg. Perimeter...stainless fixings etc. Etc. Then when you've spent two days on the quote and drawings etc..phonecall chasing availability of said hardwood..and you give a price you get "how much?"..can you quote me for fence panels and 3x3 posts instead.
In the past, I have shown the client with a tape measure and spirit level how far out linings can be and then explained that their new doors are exactly square and a given size. This has given them an idea of what it takes to fit the doors with neat equal margins and they are usually happy to pay what I want. New doors on old linings can be a proper nightmare!
Last year, talking to a fellow builder when out cycling, he had done a lot of work for his neighbour up the street, about a few weeks work, got paid ok and then went off on holiday for a week,just a uk week away, got home and a barrage of abuse from neighbour on the ansaphone, and a written letter of complaint about all the faults.
The letter finished off by stating he the neighbour wasnt happy about paying for the builders holiday.
Always best to avoid doing bigger jobs for neighbours and relatives.
2 days is fair on old frames & out of square. I'd charge £200 labour only.
P.s. Just left the building trade after 21 yrs and hope to never go back.
@ theraq..is that per day? Where abouts n the land are you?
Cash job £100 p/d
South Wales
I don't think it's unique to the building trade. I have a friend who is having an issue with a customers about some software he is writing dispute having a contract all signed.
I think it's been summed up in an earlier post that people see the cost and not the value...
Hang a door takes the same time to say as open a door..it sounds like a totally quick & simple process and gives no insight to the work involved..
People don't realise what they're actually paying for. They see a tradesman on site for time x and workout what they'd get paid for that time and then expect to pay an amount based on that and how they value a tradesman compared to their job. They forget about the other costs to their employer of NICs, pension, desk, buillding etc and the tradesmans cost of tools, van, training, qualifications, quotes, driving etc.
My favourite expression for threads on here: People know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Cash job £100 p/d
South Wales
Fhaack?!
To the op, if FiL isn't happy offer to go round and takes the doors off and call it quits....