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"There were no police vehicles on Snowdon road at the time of the crash, there was a police van on another street and police were called quickly to get the accident and conducted CPR"
Do MTBers who crash “kill themselves”?
That would make for an interesting thread. Someone posts a serious injury looking for tea and sympathy, only to get a reply of ' Well tough luck buddy, you knew the risks'
Im sure who ever posted such a reply would get a pile on dogs abuse.
That would make for an interesting thread.
Indeed. Personally I would say that if I, a mostly wheels on the ground rider, elected to do a run of Redbull Rampage and impaled myself that would very much be self inflicted right up in the darwin award catagory. Anyone looking down on the scene with one of those likelihood/consequence risk assessment grids would be agreeing. If I died in some freak accident where I fell off on a perfectly flat trail and hit my head just at the wrong angle where I could do it a thousand more times and not suffer the same fate then not so much. Everything else is somewhere between the two. But then again I'm big on taking personal responsibility for your actions - that does not mean living a low risk life; just being at peace with the consequence if it goes wrong and not crying 'no fair'!
I guess we use 'Darwinism' to describe elective obviously high risk activity where the outcome is very unlikely to be healthy. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to put high speed motor bike riding in an urban setting without protection to try and evade a chat with the plod in that category too.
Someone posts a serious injury looking for tea and sympathy, only to get a reply of ‘ Well tough luck buddy, you knew the risks’
tbf thats exactly what you would get outside the bubble of cycling.
Im always shocked/impressed how, when an article turns up about a london commuter getting squashed by a lorry or a bus, how many comments BTL are allowed to stand along the lines of "good, one less parasite taking up road space"
A bunch of four hooded young scroates attacked a female MTB rider locally, at 5pm, on my route home, right near houses, local well used path. Four kids supposedly, but threatened the rider with death.
These so called kids do know right and wrong.
These so called kids do know right and wrong.
With the age of criminal responsibility being 10 years of age, then yes, legally. Assuming no learning difficulties, etc.
Interesting that a 16 year old is classed as a child though.
MTBer/Rugby player dies doing something legal knowing the risks whilst using PPE/safety equipment --> Sympathy.
Surron scroats --> **** em I couldn't care less.
The thing that gets me with this palaver is everyone's pointing fingers at each other but no ones pointing the fingers at whoever facilitated ownership to them of a Sur Ron and let them fly around on it with no helmets on.
People moan when police don't chase people on mopeds or motorbikes because of risk of the risk involved, now there is riots when they do.
The thing that gets me with this palaver is everyone’s pointing fingers at each other but no ones pointing the fingers at whoever facilitated ownership to them of a Sur Ron and let them fly around on it with no helmets on.
I suspect that permission is not something many people look to have before embarking on an adventure or course of action, least of all teenages with adrenaline on hand...
I suspect that permission is not something many people look to have before embarking on an adventure or course of action, least of all teenages with adrenaline on hand…
Very true - but the comment you quoted said "facilitated ownership" not "permission". Not many teens, no matter how wealthy their background can get their hands regularly on a £4K+ motor bike without a 3rd party gifting/loaning it.
@matt_outandabout But still, for an extreme example if you buy someone a gun as say a gift, and they proceed to get into an accident and shoot themselves with it, you would feel at least partly responsible for giving them the availability to put themselves into that situation in the first place.
Extreme example but still, for a lesser example say if I gave my nephew a sur ron as a christmas gift and he proceeded to put himself in hospital by riding it like a nobber, I'd feel guilty for giving him one in the first place as it would likely have never happened if I hadn't have facilitated it to begin with. Now if he'd bought it himself and proceeded to do the same, that's a different story
A bunch of four hooded young scroates attacked a female MTB rider locally, at 5pm, on my route home, right near houses, local well used path. Four kids supposedly, but threatened the rider with death.
A much better example would be the murder of James Bulger, he was actually killed by two 10 year old kids.
Which proves what exactly, in relation to the Cardiff riots.......that all children are potentially murderers and should be treated as such?
Sad. Does no-one else look at tragedies like this and think back to how daft they were at 16 and times when, but for luck/god/timely intervention, it could have been them?
No because I was brought up with values. Not once did I try and outrun police on a completely illegal motorbike. So once again - **** em. And **** the parents who didn't instill values in these kids. You reap what you sow. But it'll never be little Johnny the angels fault.
This thing around ownership of said electric motorbike, in regards to scrotes, they're often gifted by dealers higher up the food chain to allow for the faster distribution of product and for ease of evasion of the law by their low level dealers.
The gift in part then creates a 'debt' which hooks the kids into these networks, these two may have been scrotes, may have even been dealing scrotes, and no doubt their lives were destined to be fully entwined with the law for what would have been the foreseeable future, but that doesn't make their deaths any less tragic because now there is no option for them to make different choices. So yeah, I think it's a ****ing tragedy.
Many of the lads I grew up with went down the petty > major criminality route, I made an impetuous decision that took me away from that life simply in a fit of rebelliousness against people telling me I'd never amount to anything. Pure luck as I could have chosen to be a scrote whizzing about on a bike dealing drugs for proper scumbags.
Sad. Does no-one else look at tragedies like this and think back to how daft they were at 16 and times when, but for luck/god/timely intervention, it could have been them?
I do, TBH I'm amazed I made it to Uni age!
Sad. Does no-one else look at tragedies like this and think back to how daft they were at 16 and times when, but for luck/god/timely intervention, it could have been them?
No because I was brought up with values.
I think you have just re-enforced the point which you were apparently attempting to challenge.
Unless you feel that you personally were responsible for the way that you were brought up?
*Luck*
No because I was brought up with values.
Ah, so you never ever did something stupid that could've resulted in your death.
A mate of mine was killed aged 18 because he crossed the road without looking and was run over.
I lost control of my mum's car because I was driving too fast, but avoided a serious collision because nothing was coming the other way.
Luck.
Surron scroats –> **** em I couldn’t care less.
Which is a significant part of why they DGAS either. I mean, whether you care or not makes no difference to them so it's not a personal dig, just a comment as a lead-in.
Disadvantaged areas, no opportunities and no-one seems to give a shit, the country keeps voting in governments who never give a shit. In the end what do we expect happens? Kids go feral, rip around on whatever they can find that gives them a buzz or a feeling of getting a bit of control back in life. Then this sort of thing happens when it goes wrong. There's no short-term answer or point in blame, we just need to look at what changes things like this and why it's so messed up in the UK.
Sure – they weren’t old enough to be riding a bike that powerful on the road, quite apart from everything else that was wrong.
But its sad when kids die right?
Sure. But this is not lightning from a blue sky.
No because I was brought up with values.
So was I and I still did some stupid things when I was younger because young men often do. The lucky ones don't have consequences to live with, or get to live full stop.
I think this whole thing is sad. If you never lost a friend in a motorbike or car accident when you were younger or had a close call yourself you might not see why and I get it. But it's sad, first. After recognising that maybe things can get somewhere.
edit, I'm repeating a point already made by others and it didn't need me saying it. It's just where my own thoughts on things like this comes from. It's not excusing it or absolving responsibilities, there's always choices, it's just recognising what a waste of life it is and how so many kids should have better opportunities.
You display the emotional intelligence of a brick.
probably, I'm also lacking in empathy.
But where I'm at now having dealt with Surron and Mx bike ****ers lifers that's my attitude to them. How they got there and the choices that lead to it are beyond my scope. I guess we are coming at it from opposite ends of the spectrum.
I despair with this site at times. I stopped coming here for a while as some of the folk on it would say rubbish that would wind me up. I found it healthier to have a break.
I’m doing my best not to reply to some of the nasty privileged shit that’s being typed here.
Fossy, your post is completely irrelevant.
For the record, I come from inner city Liverpool. I was involved in all sorts of silly things growing up. Even at 16 I was a child making mistakes in my life. Getting away with some things and getting caught by the police for others. I bet there is a handful of people on here who used to ride motorbikes around the streets, I didn’t as couldn’t ride a motorbike, but I know plenty who did. Were they scrotes who deserve to die? Of course not. I was incredibly lucky in that I made a decision to join the military, but being honest I had so few options open to me that if I hadn’t joined I would probably be in prison now.
Should the police be in a car chase kids without helmets? Debatable and that isn’t really being discussed here. Just silly comments about Darwinism and f”@k them and their parents.
Should the police lie and twist their initial comments to attempt to gain public favour? Of course not.
What is life like for children growing up in poor areas of our cities, with very little money and who due to their surroundings see an awful lot of violence, drug abuse, alcohol abuse and are part of a poor education system with very little prospects? These people on the streets feel they are being shat on constantly, they have very little respect for the police (or any authorities) and there is valid reasons for this. Schooling is terrible, NHS is terrible. The police do not treat these people with respect, they lie and attempt to cover up their lies. It’s a constant cycle.
When one of their own is killed and then what appears to be a cover up is attempted, statements made by the authorities using lies and twisting words. Then the tinder box will ignite.
I know people will come back with saying they also come from similar backgrounds, their life’s and their families life’s were a misery because of people like this. But this is a significantly deeper issue about the poverty in certain areas that needs to be looked at. When two kids die and the comments are “you reap what you sow” and mentioning Darwinism, that’s pretty disgusting behaviour.
People moan when police don’t chase people on mopeds or motorbikes because of risk of the risk involved, now there is riots when they do.
Possibly chased them. Given the restrictions on the police and the fact it was a van it seems fairly likely they werent being chased. Although the kids may have been "escaping" in case the police in the van did request something capable of chasing them.
I also think that the group who rioted arent the same group as those who moan about the police not being allowed to chase.