[Closed] Caravanerists - good idea / bad idea?

Caravan.
You'll sell it for whatever you payed for it.

Is it a terrible idea to contemplate taking a cheap caravan over to the outer Hebrides for a holiday with potentially selling at end of holiday if doesn't work out?

No, it sounds like a good idea.

Would the slower speeds on roads annoy you ?
If not a cheap caravan should be perfect as long as your old enough to tow it and cars up to it

Slower speed regardless if towing a trailer. Idea is sound.

Get some midge netting for the door and it will be a much nicer place to be than the bell tent (which normally aren't very insect proof!)

Sounds like a very practical idea!

Road width maybe an issue as caravan s tend to be wider than cars and trailers same width or narrower.

P.s make sure you get the extra wing mirrors. Don't be one of these ****s in a 4x4 with no extra mirrors reliying on the little bit at the end of the standard mirror that pokes out beyond the car and.

"Would the slower speeds on roads annoy you"
You'll be surprised about the number of times you're stuck behind someone else.

Extension mirrors that stick out the same width as the caravan, tells you how close to the hedge the caravan is.

But yes its a good idea, makes stopping on the way up easy. The first time you drive on to the site when its going dark and raining.... I'll just drop the legs down, then we'll get a brew on:-)

Caravan, no brainer.

If it's nice, sit outside, if it's lashing down, sit looking out the window at the ones in tents, with a big smug grin.

Caravans are brilliant. Far better than a tent. The first rainy day you pitch up, brew up at a proper cooker, with fresh milk, and sit at a real table to.drink it cost and dry, you'll love it 🙂

Re cost, yes two birth caravans are very cheap. Some tips:

- try and buy one from real owners who've holudayed in it. "Selling on behalf of someone else" can mean they have patched it up dodgily to flog.

- if there's an awning and water bottles and such, this can reinforce the genuine credentials.

- Press the walls in every corner under the seats and in cupboards. If it's soft, it's damp.

- use your nose when you go in. If it smells damp, walk away.

- learn to read the age codes on tyres. Caravan tyres never wear out, they just get old, perish and eventually burst. If the tyres are over 7 years old, avoid.

Lots more buying advice if you decide to go for it. If buying on eBay share some links and we'll help 🙂

Also get roof racks for the boats and bikes. Pain in the arse to put them in the caravan and they'll trash the interior.

Well, that's fairly resounding agreement.

As for the weight and towing regs, it would appear so long as the all up train weight is <3,500kg I'll be within the law. The 'vans I've seen are of the ~750kg ball park so come well under the limit.

Will spend the next few months doing some research.

Thanks all

All up train weight? It's not quite that simple. Gross Caravan shouldn't be more than about 85% of the weight of the car. Exceed that at your peril!

All this talk of caravans & campers heading our way reminds me that it's soon going to be 40mph season 😥

I try not to hold anyone up while towing, not unless they want to exceed the limit anyway. 😉

You've picked the most expensive time of year to buy but it was the caravan show last weekend so should be plenty of trade ins at the dealers over the next few months. Might be worth a trawl around the dealers.

It sounds like you've got a post-97 license?

The plated maximum weights should be 3500kg or under. AND...
Max plated weight of caravan must be less than the unladen weight of the car.

Or you can drive a vehicle with a gros weight of 3500kg, plus a 750kg trailer.

The madness of the rules is you could be compliant towing a mid sized caravan behind a Mondeo, but a more capable and heavier 4x4 would be illegal as there is less allowance for towing. Although technically heavier, in reality it is an easier and safer combination to drive.

In the last few years the licensing has changed again to make it even more stringent.

It's complicated and no one seems to know what they can tow... They should have made it simple by just limiting the gross weight of a trailer to 1200kg or so and be done with it!

Edit: Good idea, and buy privately, and not from a stealer...Especially when you are at the budget end of the scale. All the extras add up so try and get wheel clamp, gas and water bottles, hookup lead, step etc all thrown in.

We've got a t@b 320. Which is great same width and length as the passat and slightly smaller than the t6 well be using this year (yeah I know #middleclasstravellingtypes). So so so much easier than the tent. Happy to drive at the lower speed just pull over if a queue behind. Laugh at the knob who must overtake caravan but sits at 45 after doing so.

If it's nice, sit outside, if it's lashing down,[b] sit looking out the window at the ones in tents, with a big smug grin[/b].

Caravan shit is expensive .

Based on what I'm up to just now .

I underestimated what things cost. Lucky a few of the things I bargained on were cheaper to fix than expected.

But the habitation heater was 230 quid for a little PCB.

A bunk ladder was 50 quid

Caravan electric shit is expensive.......Lucky I know enough about electrics to be dangerous and can build my own looms up from basic components. 6 quid of components becomes 60 quid if you put the word caravan infront of it.

Buy with open eyes.

As I understand it, unlike a motorhome/camper/tent, you can't wild caravan, however the idea of a decent fixed base sounds ideal.

Practice reversing for singletrack road meets

"As for the weight and towing regs, it would appear so long as the all up train weight is <3,500kg I'll be within the law", as I'm looking at caravans I think it's a bit more complex:
- max 85% weight ratio recommended (caravan to car weights)
- caravan noseweight on towbar limit (car has a stated limit)
- car towing limit weight (stated on the car)
- 40hp per tonne recommendation.
- caravan weight/mro and mtplm (ie what it weights empty and how much you can load into it)

oh yeah, can't use outside lane on 3 lane mway and lower speed limits apply

Your neighbours will hate you when you park a crap old shed on the driveway that devalues house prices by 15% over a 10 house radius :wink:.

Make sure you check the available payload in the 'van - some are pitifully small like less than a 100kg. Soon eaten up with gas bottles, food, clothes etc. Bikes & Canoe kit will need to go in the car!

If not a cheap caravan should be perfect as long as your old enough to tow it and cars up to it

Unlikely a 2 berth caravan will tip the weight of vehicle and van of 3500kg.

Yep van is a good idea, but a £1k van isn't likely to be that nice a place to be, probably damp and a bit musty.

max 85% weight ratio recommended (caravan to car weights

The 85% ratio is a recommenced match only, you can tow up to 100% of car towing 'weight'. Its not a legal requirement

Caravans are brilliant. Far better than a tent. The first rainy day you pitch up, brew up at a proper cooker, with fresh milk, and sit at a real table to.drink it cost and dry, you'll love it

I can do all that in my tent, which at 8m long, gives me way more space than a caravan. You save an hour on arrival because you don't have to pitch a tent, I save an hour driving there because I don't have to tow a caravan.

The 85% ratio is a recommenced match only, you can tow up to 100% of car towing 'weight'. Its not a legal requirement

It's a recommendation for good reason even more so when the user normally doesn't tow very often.

I save an hour driving there because I don't have to tow a caravan.

Very little chance of it raining in the car when he's driving too and from the site which on West of Scotland there's a good chance you'll get wet while pitching and striking.

And why does Molgrips think you can't have fresh milk if you're a camperist?

I've extensively camped as well as caravanned. Milk tends not to keep that well without a fridge.

Get tent out and pitch in 30 seconds, or less.
Enjoy the extra 2 hours of holiday.
Watch caravanners get soaking wet while as they argue about who's going to put the legs down and put the awning up.

I think you are comparing efficient camping with inefficient caravanning. You may be able to pitch a tiny instant pitch tent in 30 seconds, but the two things are in no way comparable. Trust me, I do know this. Did you know that caravan awnings are not mandatory, and for shorts stays most people don't bother?

You can get packing up from camping down to a similar amount of time as packing up a caravan, but then you have to spend your holiday in a little tiny tent with no facilities and cook on the floor. Of course, you can bring a fridge, table kitchen, folding cupboards, folding beds etc etc, but that stuff isn't all going to be got out and packed away in 30 seconds, is it?

Plus, no caravanner is going to be standing around outside in the rain putting an awning up. We sit in our nice warm van until it stops, obviously. And why would caravanners be more likely to argue than a couple in a tent? I think you are talking arse.

Get a cold beer from the fridge.

Is this the fridge that magically unpacked itself in the 30 seconds your tent takes to erect? Or is it a carvanner's fridge which is already there and cold?

Caravan shit is expensive .

Spares can be, but they can also be cheap. I found it very useful that you can usually get replace,ent interior fittings for peanuts: hinges, door catches, new keys, rubber sealing strips, lights, plumbing etc etc. Yes, things like a new fridge from a breakers are much more than you expect, but then when you can buy a complete van for a grand it starts to look like good value.

Yep van is a good idea, but a £1k van isn't likely to be that nice a place to be, probably damp and a bit musty.

I wouldn't say 'probably'. There are crap vans for sale at that price but also good ones. They are definitely around. You can get decent old vans from dealers but they are three times the price.

Make sure you check the available payload in the 'van - some are pitifully small like less than a 100kg.

Modern vans it's usually about 130kg or so, not including a gas bottle usually. There's MIRO (mass in running order) and MTPLM (maximum technical permissible laden mass). Payload is MTPLM - MIRO, and MIRO includes a gas bottle (since 2011 anyay). Older vans though have much more generous allowance, perhaps for this reason. My 23 year old Bailey 4 berth 18ft van is 850kg MIRO and 1080kg MTPLM I think, which is pretty light and also gives a lot of payload.

Still - even 130kg is a lot of clothes and food.

I can do all that in my tent, which at 8m long, gives me way more space than a caravan. You save an hour on arrival because you don't have to pitch a tent, I save an hour driving there because I don't have to tow a caravan.

What I meant was, I can do it all immediately, without having to pitch a tent in the rain and unpack and setup all the furniture and cookers. It's already there.

As I said - I've done both, a lot, and caravanning is better in many circumstances. Except the driving. But on balance, caravanning is better for me.

It's also worth pointing out that the caravan can stay packed, which I find a little more convenient.

I think there is a little animosity between campers and caravanners on this thread. Which is pretty stupid, isn't it?

I can do all that in my tent, which at 8m long, gives me way more space than a caravan. You save an hour on arrival because you don't have to pitch a tent, I save an hour driving there because I don't have to tow a caravan.

It's a recommendation for good reason even more so when the user normally doesn't tow very often.

It's good for an inexperienced tower with an old van. Modern car/modern van with al-ko stability control then its not so important.

I can do all that in my tent, which at 8m long, gives me way more space than a caravan. You save an hour on arrival because you don't have to pitch a tent, I save an hour driving there because I don't have to tow a caravan.

Experienced tentist and experienced caravanist. I love going away in the tent but the van is roughly speaking a million times better.

What do you think the ops going to get for 1k - you'll be looking at 10times that(without looking at actual prices just a stab in the dark) before your getting something with alko stabiliser system which is very neat.

Some folk I know have bought sub 1k vans and got a steal. Others have bought waterproof floors with porous roofs......

What do you think the ops going to get for 1k

Same as I got for £1k. Old, hilarous decor but dry and comfy 2 berth van with all the gadgets working including hitch stabiliser. Mine also had two awnings and all the accoutriments, which I nicked for its 4 berth replacement. Also nicked the hitch stabiliser 🙂

Not man enough for a tent?
Too poor for a hotel?

Buy a caravan! And ensure every other motorist hates you. 😀

What do you think the ops going to get for 1k - you'll be looking at 10times that(without looking at actual prices just a stab in the dark) before your getting something with alko stabiliser system which is very neat.

One with a hitch stabiliser going by molgrips post. Alko ATC system has been around for at least 10 years.

But I'm well aware of what the op will get for £1k.

I've had caravans for 10+ years, toured a lot around Europe and would generally choose a tin tent over canvas / nylon everytime. However, one of the few places I wouldn't want to take a caraven is the Scottish islands. I'm not saying you couldnt't, but the thought of trying to thread a car and caravan around some of the narrowest lanes in the UK could be very stressfull and pretty much spoil the holiday IMO.

Minor thread hijack. Are caravan awnings suitable for sleeping in? E.g. If we got a 2 berth and the kids slept in the awning area?

Yes awnings are fine for sleeping in, you can add an inner tent if you want or just stick camp beds in the awning.

Are caravan awnings suitable for sleeping in? E.g. If we got a 2 berth and the kids slept in the awning area?

Yes. My in-laws slept in ours as we slept in the van.

However you have to put the awning up then,and if your 2 berth is small you lose a lot of awning space you could otherwise eat or play in etc. Inner tents are easy to take down and stash away though. I'd recommend an inner tent, as you can be rudeley awakened by beasties - or just not awakend at all whilst they feast on you.

Also consider a cheap 2-man tent for them to sleep in - easier and quicker than awning. Or just a 4 berth van.

And ensure every other motorist hates you

There are things you can do to avoid pissing motorists off. I pull over regularly to let people by, and I also choose routes to maximise dual carriageway/motorway. Also when there's a straight you can back off to let people come by.

On windy A roads I've found that I can drive fast enough to not be the hold-up anyway. Particularly around Somerset, where there's always far more dawdlers than there is caravanners.

Or just a 4 berth van.

Yeah, just seems like 2 berths tend to be much better value.

Yeah, just seems like 2 berths tend to be much better value.

Yeh but they're pretty small for fitting a family in.

They're cheaper, yes, but they are only better value if they do what you want 🙂

I think you'll regret the faff of having to put up an awning or tent every time. Also 2 berth vans only have one dinette. We got a 4 berth for £1500 which did need work, admittedly, but I know of other people who paid less and got much better vans so they are out there.

Having two dinettes is great for us - the kids play on the little table, their toys and games are in the cupboards there, and we get to relax on the big seats. It really helps. Ideally I'd want an end dinette, so they can be at the other end of the van and have more space still.

Rainy caravan day - kids playing nicely out of shot to the left, everyone warm, comfy and dry.

[img] [/img]

caravans are great.
I also couldn't give care less if other people hate me. I hate them.

I'm normally towing at the same speed as the car in front. In spite of this no end of Clarkson-worshipping bellends decide they ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO OVERTAKE BECAUSE THE MERE PRESENCE OF A CARAVAN means that they'll more than likely slow down so much that they'll be reported missing by their loved ones.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Abbey-Cachet-4-Berth-caravan-limited-Edition-/232256966786?hash=item3613981082:g:L8UAAOSwTuJYttRO

I've extensively camped as well as caravanned. Milk tends not to keep that well without a fridge.

It keeps just fine in a coolbox

Not for long.

And I also have cold beer and wine - why wouldn't I? I have a fridge. Also a freezer, so I can have ice cream 🙂

Not for long.

And I also have cold beer and wine - why wouldn't I? I have a fridge. Also a freezer, so I can have ice cream

Kept cold for two weeks on my last camping holiday. France, in August.

You and sasquatch won't win this argument. You can't claim a tent setup has more facilities than a caravan AND is quicker and simpler to put up AND is more comfortable.

There are definitely pros and cons to both. Which is why I continue to do both when needs arise. However a pro of caravanning is comfort and convenience. You can get some of the mod cons of a caravan into a tent setup, but then the sheer amount of stuff you have to get out and pack away would be huge. And you still have to put up a tent in the rain or sit in your car.

Likewise the drive still takes longer in a caravan.

Caravan pros, for me:

- stand up cooking in the dry
- comfy sofas on which I can sit up or lounge - in the dry
- warm inside
- quiet inside (in wind and rain, also for external noises)
- don't have to sleep on the floor
- blinds on windows for morning darkness
- quicker to set up compared to like-for-like
- instant refuge in the rain on arrival
- fridge
- microwave/oven if desired
- space for kids to play in the wet
- toilet inside for middle of night and bedtime routine
- toilet for sites that have none
- shower for sites that have none
- hot running water
- heater
- stuff doesn't need unpacking
- good lighting for dark nights
- washing up in your own sink without having to trek to the toilet block (if there is one)
- easier to pack up before leaving there or back

Advantages of camping

- cheap
- quicker driving
- smaller roads more accessible
- more sites available
- can take camping gear on a plane or train
- easy to store at home
- less likely to get stuck in mud on site
- tents easier to repair or replace

Anything I missed?

Kept cold for two weeks on my last camping holiday. France, in August.

You kept bottles of milk, beer and wine cold in a coolbox in august for two weeks without any intervention? I am sceptical. Remember - I've used coolboxes, a lot, so I know how they work.

I feel like you are trying to compete somehow. There's really no need.

You and sasquatch won't win this argument. You can't claim a tent setup has more facilities than a caravan AND is quicker and simpler to put up AND is more comfortable.

You appear to be arguing against something I haven't said. I was merely responding to your rather odd suggestion that caravanning is better because you are able to keep milk cool, as though coolboxes don't exist.

Though well done on your little list - I expect you're so pleased that you're rubbing your polyester slacks.

You kept bottles of milk, beer and wine cold in a coolbox in august for two weeks without any intervention? I am sceptical. Remember - I've used coolboxes, a lot, so I know how they work.

Option 1. Plug coolbox into mains.
Option 2. Freeze icepacks in campsite freezer.
Sheesh, this stuff isn't difficult.

I feel like you are trying to compete somehow. There's really no need.

You're right. I should stop with the silly lists.

I think I could write a bot that passed the Turing test if the subject was caravanning. It could argue from either side and be convincing.

It's probably one of the stupidest arguments I've seen on here for a while, but molgrips is right. You can't say that the camping experience is comfier/warmer/more secure/drier or anything else over a caravan.

We bought our first caravan simply because tents are so shit.

Last time I camped in the UK was when I did the Trans Cambrian Way two years ago. Whole family drove out to Aberdovey, we stayed overnight, then we set off riding, the family had a day out and drove to the end. My wife didn't want to drive the caravan on the windy roads.

Kept cold for two weeks on my last camping holiday. France, in August.

Could you let me know which coolbox you use ransos? The coolbox I have that we use for camping, which is good quality, doesn't keep stuff that cold in hot weather when plugged into the mains. Milk will last 2 days max. Not plugged in with ice packs we'd be lucky if milk lasted a day in hot weather.

The fridge in the caravan on the other hand has very cold beer available whatever the weather, and ice for the g&t 🙂

Option 1. Plug coolbox into mains.

So you can only go to sites where you can freeze ice packs or have mains hook up, sounds a bit restrictive 🙂
Option 2. Freeze icepacks in campsite freezer.

Could you let me know which coolbox you use ransos? The coolbox I have that we use for camping, which is good quality, doesn't keep stuff that cold in hot weather when plugged into the mains. Milk will last 2 days max. Not plugged in with ice packs we'd be lucky if milk lasted a day in hot weather.

A bog standard Camping gaz box I've had for about ten years. If it's very hot, I supplement it with an ice pack or two. It's always been fine.

Option 1. Plug coolbox into mains.
Option 2. Freeze icepacks in campsite freezer.
Sheesh, this stuff isn't difficult.

No but it's less convenient, which has been my point all along. Also rather hard if you don't have mains or a campsite freezer 🙂

A bog standard Camping gaz box I've had for about ten years.

Same as mine, strange how they perform so differently 🙂

No but it's less convenient, which has been my point all along. Also rather hard if you don't have mains or a campsite freezer

No, that wasn't your point. You were complaining about the difficulty of keeping milk cold when camping. The point is, it isn't difficult.

Anyway, people caravanning for any decent length of time also plug into the mains, don't they?

Same as mine, strange how they perform so differently

I can only speak as I find. I haven't used any other coolboxes.

No, that wasn't your point. You were complaining about the difficulty of keeping milk cold when camping. The point is, it isn't difficult.

Well I found it difficult, but I don't go to sites with mains or camp freezers. But I can rephrase it if you like? It's more restrictive and less convenient.

Quick poll then:

Have the anti-caravanners ever carvanned?

and

Have the caravanners ever camped?

Well I found it difficult, but I don't go to sites with mains or camp freezers. But I can rephrase it if you like? It's more restrictive and less convenient.

Are there very many sites that accept caravans, yet don't have a freezer or mains electricity on site?

Have the caravanners ever camped?

Yes, a lot.

Are there very many sites that accept caravans, yet don't have a freezer or mains electricity on site?

Yes, 100's, they're called certificated sites. Basically a field with a water supply.

[i]Edit: 1600 camping and caravan club certificated sites in the UK.[/i]

Fridge in the caravan can run on gas, so cold stuff still available.

Yes, 100's, they're called certificated sites. Basically a field with a water supply.

Ah, ok. I've never stayed in one. I prefer sites with a few facilities when family camping.

No you wouldn't want to, your milk would go off and your beer would be warm 🙂

Thousands of CLs, in fact. These are the only ones I stay on. £6-10 a night, middle of the countryside, and hardly any other people cos they are limited to 5 caravans. Often on farms so the kids get to watch the animals, it's lovely. The nice owners let the kids interact with the animals too. I milked a cow when I was a kid, last one we were on my kids watched lambs being born.

Far better than busy sites.

No you wouldn't want to, your milk would go off and your beer would be warm

Sour milk and warm beer I can cope with, it's the thought of being near caravanners that really puts me off. 😉

Far better than busy sites.

I like busy sites. My kids are always able to find other kids their own age to make friends with, they can go to the playground, I can get fresh bread from the site shop, there's often a pool. Etc.

In answer to the poll:
I've camped and now caravan.
Caravan wins 😀

Caravanning being popular with families there are usually other kids on CLs too. I don't tend to use facilities cos we're usually out and about doing stuff for most of the day, we only come back for downtime and meals.

I've camped and now caravan

I bet yours has nice curtains.

Haha. It is old so has hideous decor. Curtains are all new and pretty. Not that digusting peach velour. 🙂

We have velour that used to be green I think. My wife has considered making new ones but I'm personally not sure it's worth bothering as everything's so faded and old anyway.

We have 're-decorated' the bathroom with that sticky film you can get in B&Q though, which is a huge improvement.

here's mine, well not actually mine but it looks the same.

[img] http://i.lowdhams.com/slir/w473//uploads/catalog/products/51400.11.1.jp g" target="_blank">http://i.lowdhams.com/slir/w473//uploads/catalog/products/51400.11.1.jp g"/> [/img]

Fixed bed, eh? hmm.

Yeh, its great, there's only the two of us so no weans to bother about unless the youth decides to come with us.

Ah yes, for two it would be good. I'd still be tempted to consider a smaller 2 berth, but when our kids are out of the house we might end up having more storage so who knows.

Classifieds in the Caravan Club magazine (now the Caravan and Motorhome club) usually have some pearlers in them - look for the ones that have lightly used van with everything "illness forces sale"

EDIT: actually for those caravan gurus - any good tips on a van with rear bunks - there's 3 of us and we fancy a van, smallest family member would prefer a bunk, we're happy with a convertible bed in the front

Best thing you can do is have a wander around a large caravan dealers and take a look in the vans, then decide on the layout you want based on actually being in the van. What you think might work for you might not be so good once you're in the van. Once you decide on the layout pretty much all manufacturers do something similar.

You mean fixed bunk? They were not in fashion for a while, but in the last 5 years or so they have come back, so it depends on how much £ you have.

Why do they want a bunk, incidentally?

NZCol.

[url= http://www.caravanfinder.co.uk/caravan-layouts-4berth-bunkbed.html ]9 VANS HERE WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT BUDGETS[/url]

I've seen an Elddis 464 in the "flesh". It would do everything you describe.

I'll keep looking at my myriad of bookmarks, we're looking for the same thing as you.

A bunk is similar to "the naughty step", for adults. 😉

Those layouts though have rear bunks but no seat back there. Some have a little dinette as well as bunks.

I personally like the second seating area, but it's all preference of course.

Oh yeah you can also get ones with two beds down either side, they are sprung mattresses but you could leave one made up as a bed and one could be sat on still.

Like this, a bailey Pursuit 550-4 which is a new van but there are older ones available:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]