[Closed] Car woes - new engine?

What the VW book says and what's possible are two different things. You can for example (just about) change the camshaft position sensor without removing the cambelt, saving about £200, but it's a bit of a thrutch.

Exterior designers say car has to look like this, lights have to go here.
Safety people say you need to make it like this
NCAP pedestrian safety people say you need to make it like this
Headlight units have already been designed on a bench
Packaging engineers then have to fit it all in with all these constraints

Agreed.
However Volvo manage to make it a 'remove one retention pin', lift out headlamp unit, replace bulb, replace headlamp, pop retention pin back in.

while i enjoy the berlingos - lift bonnet remove rear cap , change bulb , replace cap close bonnet.

UPDATE 2

Charging the battery for a couple of hours has allowed the electric handbrake to be released, and some of the lights on the dash have gone out. Not all, mind. Haynes manual arrived today. Getting stuck in next week...

I think its only Renaults that are so badly designed that it takes 45mins to change a lightbulb.

Mx5's are the same. I ended up taking it to the garage instead after the bulb i'd fitted blew within about an hour of fitting.

On the other hand, my octavia's headlight units unclip and slide out of the car completely. You could change the bulbs from the comfort of your sofa if desired.

I think its only Renaults that are so badly designed that it takes 45mins to change a lightbulb.

Nope - side lights on a Honda Jazz are the same. So much faff that I ordered LED bulbs to fit instead because they wouldn't blow. Except I didn't test them first and, although they work, they're a slightly chavvy blue white colour... :/

To the OP -One thing to consider for your engine swap adventure would be to contact some mobile mechanics and ask if they one is interested in a days work with you helping - should be good value compared to a garage labour bill - and you could get some serious results with decent help.
You can discuss with them what stage you need help with - ie - you dismantle and remove all the ancillaries and bumper/rad etc . Then get them to come in to help with the engine removal/swap (pop a clutch in there if possible) .

I think its a big con sold by the car industry to protect servicing income.

It most certainly is. Oil and filter changes on the first Mondeo's required a lift as the filter was at the rear of the engine under part of the block/head with no access from above. (Unless you had very small, strong hands).
Mrs S Note is similar with the filter being barely visible from above.

My ratty Saab 900 just requires long arms and laying on the floor to do an oil change.

Good tip. Estimated cost for a mobile mechanic would be less than £400, so it's a good fall-back option if I get overwhelmed.

"It most certainly is. Oil and filter changes on the first Mondeo's required a lift as the filter was at the rear of the engine under part of the block/head with no access from above. (Unless you had very small, strong hands).
Mrs S Note is similar with the filter being barely visible from above."

no lift required - just a jack and some axle stands.

Nope - side lights on a Honda Jazz are the same. So much faff that I ordered LED bulbs to fit instead because they wouldn't blow. Except I didn't test them first and, although they work, they're a slightly chavvy blue white colour... :/

I presume they are the same as the civic I.e. through the wheel arch liner. A bit of a faff the first time then a two minute job when you get the hang of it?

"[i]contact some mobile mechanics and ask if they one is interested in a days work with you helping[/i]"

If I was a mechanic, I'd charge extra if the customer was insisting on "helping" !

I presume they are the same as the civic I.e. through the wheel arch liner. A bit of a faff the first time then a two minute job when you get the hang of it?

E90 3 series is the same for the low beam. Wheel off job for me but my wrist joints aren't very flexible.

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So you have never had to work underneath a car on your own/
Constantly rolling out to get a different socket extension , wobble drive, ratchet spanner? I would always rather have any male person there with adequate man points to hand me the 30cm ,1/2" extension and driver than constantly be in and out from underneath a car.

Yesi have thanks

But i tend to load up a tool tray with what i think ill need and head under the car.

Running back and forth is kept to a minimum.

It's good exercise, that.

I think its only Renaults that are so badly designed that it takes 45mins to change a lightbulb.

You can change golf mk4 side light without bumper removal just need long nose pliers and small hands help.

First time did lead to a little blood loss though

So you have never had to work underneath a car on your own/

I've never worked on a car in my life. I think i've changed a wheel once... Other than that, cars are not something i spanner..

Give to a man, collect.. pay... drive home.

[quote="singletrackmind"]So you have never had to work underneath a car on your own/

Of course I have. And I daresay a professional mechanic has too seeing as it's a large part of their job. I stand by my point, and Trail Rat's pic 🙂

Now then. Some progress. Engine is on the point of getting lifted out, having removed the front of the car, disconnected all the tubes (and labelled them!), taken drive shafts out and disconnected the exhaust from the back of the turbo (by far the trickiest bit).

Most of the engines I can see for sale have had a lot of bits removed - turbo, wiring loom etc. I've found one which does at least have the A/C pump, water pumps, oil pump etc still in place. Swapping the turbo doesn't seem too hard and the wiring loom ought to be ok provided I label everything well. I'm taking a bit of a risk that the timing belt is going to be ok, at least for long enough to get it to a garage for a service.

Any tips for things to pay attention to would be gratefully received. Haynes manual has been pretty good so far. 'Fitting is the reverse of removal'...

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Good on you.

I've swapped out an engine before its easier than it looks.

I bought a hoist for £99 and sold it when I was finished for £110, people need to check ebay properly.

Swapping out Turbo's is pretty straight forward, especially off the car.

Clean your intercooler out while its off the car too.

I got the same hoist I expect, £100. Plan to sell it after.

It's been ok so far. Getting the exhaust off the turbo was a pig, and unless I do something differently it's going to be impossible reconnect. Really wanted to avoid removing the whole steering sub-frame as it's not that high off the ground. Otherwise though it seems to have been designed with the mechanic in mind - large bits come off whole, eg headlights, radiator, a/c condensor, intercooler, bonnet catch assembly etc all off in one lump.

Other than the turbo, I'm hoping the engine control module doesn't throw a fit when I plug it back in.

No tips, but bravo for attempting this!

Go for it man!
I've done a clutch and cam belts on my old Mazda 323.
The worst bit is turning the key for the first time...
Just work methodically and take your time.

As bigyinn, while it's all in bits it's definitely worth doind the belts and water pump (if needed) yourself, you've got this far without destorying anything, you might as well make it a proper job and save yourself some £££ into the bargain!

The worst bit is turning the key for the first time

Ensure there are no surprised by turning the engine over by hand first.

I am actually dead jealous that you get to work on an engine out of the car. Must be so flippin easy.

Don't forget to put new headlamp bulbs in while you have the engine out 🙂

I'm taking a bit of a risk that the timing belt is going to be ok, at least for long enough to get it to a garage for a service.

Mmmm. . . You've got (or are getting a replacement engine) so why not do the timing belt yourself?

Also make sure the replacement is exactly the same (BKC, BJB, BLS or whatever your's is).

Hth
Mark

I was under the impression timing belt needed special tools, but just read up and seems sensible to do that at the same time. Not that I'm planning on hanging onto this car for very much longer...

It's a BXE which has gone, and I believe BKC is essentially the same and perhaps more readily available.

Just need holding pins for these engines, available online.

You may wish to read up on whether or not you need to chnage the tensioner stud, I understand it's controversial. Also check the kit when you get it because on mine, the tensioner pulley had the wrong sized hole and there was no easy way on ECP to identify which I needed.

Flush/renew the turbo oil pipes - debris could be in there from the blowup.
Likewise check oil cooler - although I think they are integral to the oil filter on these.
Fill with water - not antifreeze - until you know there are no leaks - then drain and refill with the expensive antifreeze .
Do have a look at the belt/tensioner/water pump.

well done - good luck

If you are getting a timing belt get the full kit that should include a water pump. The pump runs on the timing belt, if it fails it takes the belt out.

Forget ECP kits, just get a Gates kit and be done with it. My Civic had a Gates belt with Isuzu stamped over it and then Honda stamped over that. With a premium added each time.

Well done again for trying though, if nothing else you will have learned a lot about working on a car and even if the job doesn't work out you will be no worse off than when you started and have a lot more knowledge and confidence for it.

Oh, and use a torque wrench!

Or just get the genuine VAG kit from TPS - cheap and has all the bits including the studs.

"Genuine VAG" will most likely be Gates!

Indeed it may well be, but it could be conti. I seem to remember that the VAG kit has a few more bits than the aftermarket ones - could be wrong though.

even if the job doesn't work out you will be no worse off than when you started

Other than the £600 I've just dropped on a secondhand ebay engine! Oh well, fingers crossed. Might try to sell bits off the old engine once it's out - cylinder head and injectors, pumps and alternator ought to be ok.

Looks like cam belt and water pump will be about £100 which isn't too bad. Will have a feel of the tensioner to see if that needs replacing too. Anyone got a TPS log-in they'd be willing to lend?! Website says not available to general public.

Got myself a torque wrench so sorted there 🙂

Other than the £600 I've just dropped on a secondhand ebay engine!

Well no, cos if it fetched £600 on ebay from you, you'll be able to ebay it again and get your £600 back.

You can go to TPS and buy parts - there's one in Cardiff. They didn't like serving me, but they did.

I'd replace the tensioner too. Not worth the risk for a cheap part. Do it properly.

Mowgli - Member
I got the same hoist I expect, £100. Plan to sell it after.

It's been ok so far. Getting the exhaust off the turbo was a pig, and unless I do something differently it's going to be impossible reconnect. Really wanted to avoid removing the whole steering sub-frame as it's not that high off the ground. Otherwise though it seems to have been designed with the mechanic in mind - large bits come off whole, eg headlights, radiator, a/c condensor, intercooler, bonnet catch assembly etc all off in one lump.

Other than the turbo, I'm hoping the engine control module doesn't throw a fit when I plug it back in.

Did you loosen the engine on the mounts before trying to remove the turbo?

As long as the engine is supported you can lean it backwards or forwards to suit what you are trying to do.

Its pretty easy to undo the lower gear box mount and still have the engine held in place.

Get a bit of 4x2 to help lean the engine about

Google ''easy way to change cambelt'' it involves cutting it along its length to avoid timing issues. Vet easy and no need for engine lock-up tools.

''easy way to change cambelt'' it involves cutting it along its length to avoid timing issues. Vet easy and no need for engine lock-up tools.

Only do this if you hate your engine.

My previous mechanic swore by this method.....Interestingly when I did my own belts this time on the same engine both the injection. Pumps were 1 tooth out.

The vehicles are both much more responsive and less clattery now. They both ran but they now run better. Won't be using that lad again.

Not worth the risk your totally reliant on it being timed right before you start and just because it runs doesn't mean it's right....+ Belts stretch.. Timing pins ain't expensive and can often be substituted with correctly sized drill bit

Think my generic kit was about 30 quid. Worth the money.

Out with the old...

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New one is in and all put back together. Battery is too flat to start it today, so borrowing a charger tomorrow to hopefully get it going. Pretty much all the warning lights are lit up at the moment so may need a VAGCOM cable to sort. Airbag, coolant, oil, traction control, tyre pressure, electric handbrake....

Good work fella.

Have a beer.

It's not so bad is it....The mechanicals.

I don't envy you fighting with vagcom. I plan to send my ECU to van tuner and getting a imob delete if I ever require a new engine.

Have you got someone who knows their way round vagcom to do it for you ?

Not yet, going to see if it drives first as it needs an MOT soon anyway, so will get the garage to scan it.

Well done - most lights will extinguish with a running car and a charged battery,
Consider getting a VAG scan tool if the lights persist - getting a garage to read the codes can be expensive and frustrating as any remedy will require rescan, a VAG405 type will do most of what you are likely to need for around £35 .

I got my VCDS cable off ebay. I'm not sure how true it is, but a lot of sellers claim that the cheap cables will break after a couple of uses. I paid about £40 for mine when i had to code in the towbar on my Exeo. I've used i tot wind back the rear piston on my old mans Tiguan to do brake pads, so its more than paid for itself.

You can have a play on the Ross-Tech website to get a feel for how it works. http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/main_screen.php
You can then look at the proceedures in the wiki and get a feel for what you need to do before going all gung-ho on the car!!

Probably worth taking a copy of any codes before changing anything in case it goes horrible wrong.

Good luck and keep us posted. Fair play to you for doing it so quickly

Buying a knock off cable and a dodgy copy of VCDS is pretty underhand. Rosstech do a fantastic job, they don't need stealing from.

@Windydave13:

When I put the engine in my old jet boat, I had nothing bar engine with carbs and an exhaust manifold. Had to guess what all the wires and everything did. Got it running eventually

I wonder if it was an old jet boat I had. JetWave, about 9 ft long!!

Ended up swapping it for a JetSki in the services near Grantham on the A1! Went like stink when it worked; sadly it ate prop shaft bearings which was an engine out job. I figured the JetSki would be easier to sell (it was!) and the funds were for a RIB I was after.
... Had to put the Citroen AX engine myself as there was nothing installed; no information whatsoever available but was all fairly straightforward. An engine hoist was invaluable however....

Does it run ?

I've decided to hold off trying again till I've checked the timing belt with the proper tool. Did it with a felt pen and a drill bit and I'm 95% sure it's right, but a bit nervous now so going to just check it with the proper tool this weekend. It's not going to be more than about 1/4 of a tooth out, but the tool was only £7 so worth checking properly I think.

If it turns over, it won't hurt the engine if it's wrong - it just won't start.

I think, anyway 🙂

Mowgli I am full of admiration for what you have done. I have spent many a cold night on a garage floor changing engines. It's been something I have done since being a kid. It's daunting when you first do it but you are a changed man and will look at engines and cars in a different light from now on. Fingers crossed everything will be fine.

So true inbred

I go to look at cars these days and so long as the chassis and body ain't rotten engines/gearboxes don't bother me beyond -is the price right and are spares easily available....

I am also impressed and happy that you have decided to fix not replace. I feel some affinity 🙂

Sorted out the timing belt with the handy tool, which was easier than I expected as access to the crank sprocket can be had from the wheelarch.

Tried starting, and no luck unfortunately. It turns over fine, but it's not firing. Not sure how much turning over it would need to get the fuel through through the lines? I've tried it for about 5-10s each time, maybe 10 times. Don't want to cook the battery so have left it for now.

The warning messages include 'Emissions Workshop!', 'Stop - Oil Pressure' and 'Engine Fault'. It is letting me try starting, but either the fuel's not made it through yet or is not being allowed through. I expect I need a VAGCOM cable before I can go much further with it.

Immobiliser stopping fuel getting past the stop solenoid ?

Do you have a fuel bleeding sequence / procedure? It's worth checking all the fuel connections , filter unions and seals

High five for giving this a bash.

Forgive me if you've already posted this information but i'm viewing on my mobile, can you list the original car model & year & engine type/code and list the engine type/code for the replacement engine and whether or not you've also swapped the ECU. I'll give my mate a call t'morn (he's a genius with VW diesel engines amongst his rally/race car prep business) and quiz him regarding possible issues. I'll post up on here whatever he advises.

Thanks pal! It's a 2008 Passat 1.9TDi. Was a BXE, now has a BKC. I've not swapped the ECU, as per some advice on another forum I read. New engine came with pretty much everything (alternator, pumps etc), I just swapped the turbo over and all the tubes and wiring looms.

I'm going to prime the tandem fuel pump as it seems likely that might be airlocked.

Be mindful of excessive engine cranking as the Diesel pump relies on lubrication from the fuel passing through, I'll get back to you via this thread tomorrow.

Just sucked some fuel through the pump, so I think it's not an airlock. Bit more reading around suggests any number of sensor problems might prevent it from firing. Will get the mobile diagnostics folk out to scan the error codes.

somafunk - Member
Be mindful of excessive engine cranking as the Diesel pump relies on lubrication from the fuel passing through, I'll get back to you via this thread tomorrow.

Not wanting to criticise, SF, but the PD engines are lubricated via engine oil, not diesel.

Very happy to be corrected on my lack of knowledge 😀 regarding the PD pumps, I now know something i didn't have full knowledge of beforehand - It would take a special breed of person to automatically jump on the defensive and i feel STW have enough of "those" without adding my name into the mix.

Cheers Cody.

The quick fix/check is to give it a sniff off 'easy start'*. And I mean a sniff - don't dump the entire can into the air intake. It should at least pop and fart. This will confirm your timing/mechanical side is good to go (more or less).

Marko

*Not an approved method, but it cuts down the diagnostic time.

If you've changed the engine ecu, it definitely isn't going to start!

You'll need to re-pair the immo, and also update the VIN data

Not changed the ECU, so I think the immobiliser side of things should be ok.

Hi
Have you got a hot glow plug ?
If you can check the current to ensure they are hot, or pop one out and switch on the ignition. With these air temps it should be red hot in seconds.
As its a CR can you crack a fuel rail banjo or union to see if there is diesel going round the system?
If Yes and Yes then its either ECU not telling the injectors to open, possible imobiliser /anti theft issue, or your timing is out and the fuel is going in a millisecond too late. ( white exhaust fumes and smelly derv smell )

Not sure about glow plugs, but I'd heard that they're only used in really cold weather - are they actually needed for starting normally?

It's not Common Rail, but PD. Not sure if that affects a more detailed look at the fuel system.

I think (hope!) the timing is spot on now, and I suspect a computer fault is the problem. There's nothing coming out the exhaust when trying to start.

Glow plug irrelevant.

Like I said give it a 'sniff' before wasting time/money on a suspect ECU problem.

My big concern is that there is a wiring issue with the change from the BXE engine to the BKC engine. I can get you the pin outs from both ECU's when I'm at work if that will help - (PM if you need these).

Marko

OK, I'll give the spray a try, thanks. From what I'd read, the two engines shouldn't need any wiring or computer changes, but that assumes all the electrical stuff on the new one is working correctly.

Glow plugs are always used. A DI engine will start without them - eventually - but it doesn't mean they aren't important.The reason you don't have to wait for them any more is because they come on when you unlock the doors.

IT BLOODY WORKS!

Rather embarrassingly, there was a loose connection on the main engine loom.

I'm off driving now. Huge thanks to everyone who's contributed on this thread, I probably wouldn't have taken this on without your help.

Cheers!

Woo woo! That's great. Well done.

@Flaperon

Bit misleading. My PD engine (BKC) starts fine with the glow plugs disconnected - a bit 'cloudy' for sure, but no starting issues.

Also I can't see how unlocking the doors would command the glow plugs on. Surely you'd just end up with a flat battery especially if you were a seriel door unlocker/locker? I've got a common rail VAG product to look at tomorrow so I'll check your theory/information.

@Mowgli

Most non-starts/poor running issues I've seen on PD engines have all been due to the loom in the head. This usually throws up a fault code. The oil eventually seeps into the wiring and corrupts the 'go' signal.

If you are using the loom from the new engine (and after you've tried a sniff) I'd swap the loom in the head over. Easy enough to do and it will rule it out as an issue.

Also have a good look at the level/temp sensor in the sump. They are in a vulnerable position and it might have been damaged in the breakers? Mine went short circuit recently, blew a fuse and would not start.

Hth
Marko

Well done that man, see modern cars aren't that bad!!

Well by jesus the boys done good. I tip my hat to you good sir.

Winner. Have that beer now.

Edit : I should've read the recent posts before i typed out my 10 line reply.....but it's all good news so i see, well done Mowgli...treat yo'self to a well earned beer and the self satisfaction of fixing something 😀