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My engine failed failed catastrophically this evening - ended up picking bits of sump and gudgeon pin off the hard shoulder before getting towed. The car is a 2008 Passat in otherwise very nice condition, so I'm pretty gutted. I'm tempted to get a 2nd had engine put in, but I've no idea if this is likely to give decent value for money. Probably pushing £1.5-2k to have it supplied and fitted I expect. Yesterday I expect it was worth about £3500, so I'm not ready to write it off yet. Has anyone got experience of secondhand engines? Are they are more likely to go wrong? What about insurance - does it count as a modification? I'd be grateful for any advice or experiences.
Cheers!
Is there much mileage and wear and tear on other parts of the car? If so I'm no sure I would bother.
Time to scrap the car I would think.
Friend had a golf tdi that blew the engine,he had a second hand (supposedly reconditioned) engine fitted but it turned out to be very worn out,and he sold the car on shortly after.
If you can guarantee the condition of the replacement engine and the rest of the car is ok,it could be worthwhile though
Its not just another engine though
If its out the car you would be mad not to put a cambelt kit and water pump on at the same time. Then there is a clutch and dual mass.
If it were me, I would get a few mates round who are handy with the spanners and swap it out myslef.
As soon as you are paying a garage the cost doubles
If you could find a good engine on ebay, still in the car , thats had a rear ender and is being broken , then that might fly.
But you are still facing issues with modern engines electronics being coded and refusing to talk to each other without being told by a techy with a laptop ,moar dosh.
Might be best to sell it on ebay as is and start looking for a new car.
What single-track mind says.
I'd do it my self over a weekend.
I'd not pay someone else to do it.
I swapped my non running golf for a Vauxhall frontera with 11 months MOT rather than swap the engine.
Best trade ever !
The electrical side of things is what put me off attempting it myself. I've one mate who's offered a help, but I doubt there's a Haynes manual for engine swaps! Might try calling in a few favours to have a go though.
Cheers,
spend the weekend swapping the engines over.Unless your is a diesel....
Of course there is a Haynes Manual for engine swaps. There will be 8 pages on it. It wont be 100% factually correct but it be close.
However, th fact that you do not know there is a chapter in removing the engine in a Haynes manual leads further down the road of ebay removal and replacement
no offence - winky smiley thing..
Sadly the VAG 2.0 PDENGINES are prone to this and it's quite common. We are in the same predicament with a 2.0 Touran but have decided to cut our losses and get rid.
Hello there,I have a West Yorkshire based car breakers if you let me know your three letter engine code I will give you a price for a second hand engine removed from an accident damaged vehicle.As a rough guide we have just supplied and fitted a 2.0tdi engine into a 2008 A3 for £1500,including belt kit.
That's sounds more like it. It's a Passat TDi 1.9 105. If I'm having a new lump it'd be good to have a bit more oomph though. Will be in touch. Car is in Sheffield at the moment.
Sadly the VAG 2.0 PDENGINES are prone to this and it's quite common.
The myth of VAG reliability! An 8 year old engine just blowing up and it's a common problem? Not fit for purpose really.
My BiL had a Golf that had 2 replacement engines under warranty in the first 2 years.
There are alot of variables over 8 years that could lead to it blowing up and it being perfectly fit for purpose.
How ever I'm with you on vw reliability being an expensive myth 🙂
There are alot of variables over 8 years that could lead to it blowing up and it being perfectly fit for purpose.
Agreed. However, that doesn't really stand up if it's a "common" problem.
Check your engine code. I'm pretty sure that you will find it is a BXE otherwise known as a UXB. They tend to explode in spectacular fashion on a fairly regular basis.
Loads of reports of this problem in VW group cars [url= http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/bxe-engine.146231/ ]for example[/url]
One of the main problems is not using the correct oil and not checking/changing it often enough.The fella we just fitted the A3 engine for said I will supply my own oil as he thought the vw pd oil was too expensive,£30,so he turned up with Asda's own brand which is not pd specific.We had to tell him we would not guarantee the engine without the correct oil.Mr Rockhopper the Passat in your ad is a B5 model the posters car is a B6,the only parts that are the same are the wheel nuts.
A problem with the 2.0 tdi VAG engine from 2004 to 2009 is the oil pump drive,it is a short hexagonal rod which drives the oil pump from the counter balance unit,when it wears in its holes you loose drive to the oil pump,job over.
the Passat in your ad is a B5 model the posters car is a B6,the only parts that are the same are the wheel nuts
😀
As Matt24k says, you'll probably have a BXE unit.
Junkyard Dog's price seems pretty good, if thats supplied and fitted with a warranty.
For more power, just get the engine in, belt swapped, remap. Job done.
Always used the correct oil and kept it topped up. It's almost certainly that BXE problem linked above which sounds like cheap inferior conrods. These are the bits I scooped up last night.
Junkyard Dog, what's your email or phone number?
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Hang on a minute
I may be wrong but the 1.9 is the PD ( pump deuse ) engine requiring special oil because of the poor oil spray around the lifters and the high shear in the PD lobes.
The B6 ran both Pd 1.9 and CR ( common rail ) 2.0 engines. Most are CR which should not need PD specific oil, just Fully Synthentic.
Plus sticking a 140CR into a car with a 105 ECU might not work straight away. Might be prefectly fine and dandy . Might need the ECU.
Modern cars. . . .. what was really wrong with a set of 40DCOE's and a dizzy?
Has anyone got experience of secondhand engines? Are they are more likely to go wrong?
It just depends on how well it's been looked after. If it's out of an accident-damaged car - as above - it'll likely be no better or worse than what you had, but it's a bit of a lottery. Ideally you want to see it running before you buy it and fit the thing.
The myth of VAG reliability! An 8 year old engine just blowing up and it's a common problem? Not fit for purpose really.
No better or worse than most other manufacturers, though it always helps if you use the right oil and filters, change them regularly, avoid short journeys and don't thrash it until it's properly warmed up.
You have to think that the combination of numerous short, cold engine supermarket outings and increasingly extended service intervals isn't going to end well in a lot of cases.
True. This one's had an easy life though and generally only motorway miles, serviced yearly even though it says it's ok every two years. That Audi forum link above is interesting reading and it seems like a design fault - though mine has lasted a lot longer than those being discussed.
You will need the ECU from the donor car as well as the engine.
The oil.pump issue is well documented, Google it. Doesnt affect all cars and is a case of if it was going to fail it would already have failed by now. And t didn't cause the engine to explode. And it was on BKP engines.
Sounds like something else.
BKP is PD.
Could've hoovered the carpet!
What was the engine mileage?
Of course there is a Haynes Manual for engine [b]removal[/b]. There will be 8 pages on it. It wont be 100% factually correct but it be close. Putting it back in will consist of one line "refitting is the reversal of removing"
Ftfy.
You don't need an entire engine and ecu, you just need a "short" engine.
get one from a breakers, strip off all the bits you can take from your existing engine, and throw it in the hole! You'll probably need to hire and engine crane, but everything else is a simple unplug/unbolt job. Might as well throw a new cambelt and clutch at it before you put the new engine in. Should be back on you way for less than £1K DIY
You don't need an entire engine and ecu, you just need a "short" engine
Off an engine that's had a piston go wandering around inside? Madness.
You might as well buy a full engine; you will realise you need the other bits once you crack the top off.
Id have thought a long block minimum if hes brought home bits of engine insides in a bucket.
More so if he doesnt know what hes looking for when he cracks it open....
What about insurance - does it count as a modification?
your supposed to tell them about engine swaps even a like for like unless done at a dealer.
Real world - if its a like for like - you bought it like that and werent told 😉
I told them about mine as i changed engines to a different type.
When we were 19 a mate of mine told his insurance about his replacement engine of exactly the same type in his fiat brava.... boom the car became uninsurable by him.
Of course there is a Haynes Manual for engine swaps. There will be 8 pages on it. It wont be 100% factually correct but it be close.
However, th fact that you do not know there is a chapter in removing the engine in a Haynes manual leads further down the road of ebay removal and replacementno offence - winky smiley thing..
+1
Although recent haynes manuals are crap in comparison to older ones. They just don't expect people to be tearing down engines anymore (which is maybe fair enough). Instead it's things like eight pages of how to repair the seat tilt mechanism.
Sorry about the delay,been out pedalling.Our phone number is 01924 827594,email parts4carsuk@btconnect.com.All B6 passat's fitted with the 1.9 tdi engines,of which there are lots are pd engines and must use pd specific oil,the 2.0 tdi also uses the same oil as the 1.9 tdi.we are open Monday to Friday 8-30 till 5-00.
505 01 if its a Non DPF PD.
507 if its DPF equipped model.
Just source a 1.9 tdi 105. Change the water pump and cambelt. There are 100's of these engines about. Junkyard should be able to source an accident damaged one with a good engine. Take lots of photos as you unplug or unbolt stuff. If you haven't done this before get a quote from JY. Most mark II Skoda's had the 105 engine. I'm not 100% sure but the 105 wasn't a Dpf engine.
if the rest of the car is good then I'd fix it but only if you want to keep it a while
Lots of vw forums for guides and advice
I had a similar experience recently with my Subaru Legacy worth a similar amount but it stopped short of blowing up.
I looked around for a replacement engine but couldn't find one from a trustworthy source so it going up for spares / repair today 🙁
Good luck!
Bummer. I was thinking about a Legacy as a replacement if I get rid of the Passat. Can't quite bring myself to get an Avensis, so the Legacy seemed like a good choice for Japanese reliability.
If you want one without an engine but nice leather seats... you know where to come 🙂
The car was fine. They drink oil though and I hadn't topped it up for 2 - 3 months then it died on the way to work one morning (yes without a warning light).
I looked around for spares as did a couple of garages but the only places we could find either wanted nearly 2K for the engine or were not places I was prepared to give cash to.
Companies house on-line was useful because one place said they had the part but when you googled them the directors had a string of similar businesses either in liquidation or closed down and decent list of previous client complaints about wrong parts and huge amounts of difficulty in sorting out their situations.
hence... "good luck" 🙂
Update
Garage suggests £1500 minimum to replace, or £1900 to replace and do the timing belt and water pump at the same time. Given that trade-in would get me less than £2k, and there's still a risk it wouldn't actually work after spending £2k, it's just not worth it. Shame as it's a beautiful car - almost identical to [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132084966169?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ]this one[/url].
Scrappers have offered £700 for it in it's current condition which seems like the least worst option. I am toying with the idea of taking the engine out myself, and depending on how difficult I find that, possibly try putting in a replacement. If it turns out too daunting I can still scrap it for the £700. I suppose even if the replacement engine doesn't work I could flog that separately without losing too much.
In the meantime, it's back to bangernomics unfortunately. Colleague is looking to shift a Focus for £500 which ought to keep me going for a little while.
As long as youv got the time, space and potentially somewhere dry or someone to hold an umbrella give it a go. I did the clutch and high pressure fuel pump on my old 307 hdi on the drive with just a trolley jack and a few planks of wood. Just take notes, label wires and walk away if it's not going to plan.
Engine hoist will help as well.
Good luck and post some pics
Annoyingly I had a 2t engine crane until last year! The main worry for me is the electrics, or finding any damaged wiring or hoses on the donor, or the ECU not playing ball. I expect I'll have to swap the turbo and a few other bits over from the old engine so I'm expecting some grief from it.
I'd suggest getting a vcds cable off eBay as well then. At least you can test and interrogate some of the modules before firing it up.
At least with having the old engine, as you remove parts you can check to see if they are on the donor engine or not
When I put the engine in my old jet boat, I had nothing bar engine with carbs and an exhaust manifold. Had to guess what all the wires and everything did. Got it running eventually
Modern cars are actually easier to work on that older ones imo. This is because they are actually designed for manufacture, unlike old cars which were barely designed at all.
Make sure you take a load of pics of the engine bay before you start, label or mark wires on plugs and hoses on fittings, and dive in!
Garage suggests £1500 minimum to replace, or £1900 to replace and do the timing belt and water pump at the same time.
That's cheeky. VW main dealer only charges £400 to change the timing belt and water pump, and that's with it still in the car.
You'd want the engine ECU from the donor car too. If you are near S Wales I might give you a hand.
If not - does the old car have any bits I might cannibalise? Such as a decent radio or steering wheel with buttons on it? 🙂
Not in South Wales I'm afraid - in Sheffield. Thanks for the offer though. From what I'd read (and the garage said) the ECU shouldn't need changing, so long as it's the right donor engine.
I think there are variations and changes in the engine configuration even within the same engine code.
When I had cowboy mechanics bugger up my car, I ended up spending quite a lot of time poring over Elsa wiring diagrams. They change the EGR valve and its associated wiring at some point in the same model year as my car and engine, and I had the wrong version so the valve didn't operate and threw a fault code. I think this mis-wiring also contributed to that ECU's ultimate demise, but I'm not sure about that.
It's not started well. Got home on a flat bed, rolled off ok, and I applied the electric handbrake. Now electric handbrake won't release, and almost every warning on the dash is lit up (tyre pressure, airbags, steering etc). Hoping it's just the battery is flat (a couple of hours of hazards on, and a fair few lock/unlocks, shouldn't have drained it). I guess being towed might have upset a few of the sensors as well.
I love the fact that im getting we buy any car adverts on this thread!
OP my mates 55 plate Passat died after the classic oil pump failure about 5 years ago and when the engine etc was out it must have upset the electronics as when it was started up it was lit up like Blackpool Illuminatons.
It settled itself out after being driven around the garages yard.
I think mine's a long way from getting driven anywhere for a while! Read somewhere that the electric parking brake is sensitive to low voltage, so hoping it's just that.
maxtorque - MemberModern cars are actually easier to work on that older ones imo. This is because they are actually designed for manufacture, unlike old cars which were barely designed at all.
😆
There are modern cars out there with book times of 45mins+ just to change a bulb!
yeah being designed for manufacture is a million miles away from being designed to be worked on.
i prefer the latter.
Modern cars are actually easier to work on that older ones imo. This is because they are actually designed for manufacture, unlike old cars which were barely designed at all.
I'd tend to agree, with modern electronics when you plug a laptop in they largely tell you whats wrong with them. Once inside lots of things are modular.
I think its only Renaults that are so badly designed that it takes 45mins to change a lightbulb.
VAG cars might not be as reliable as people make out but its always possible to work on them plus the availability of know how is amazing e.g. vcds, elsawin etc and parts supply is top notch through TPS.
There are modern cars out there with book times of 45mins+ just to change a bulb!
Offset that with the amount of time requried to diagnose an engine fault.
Cannot imagine what a car's wiring would look like without Canbus...
Didn't need any high tech stuff to diagnose my engine. The bits on the floor were a bit of a giveaway 😆
problem is people(garages and dealers included) follow the laptop blindly.
So many times it can be a chain reaction that sets off the codes rather than the issue its self.
Thats true - but I still think its interesting that most people on the street say 'oh modern cars are so complicated that you cant do anything to them' when actually the opposite is true. Its just the tools needed these days are different.
I think its a big con sold by the car industry to protect servicing income.
absolutely.
certainly one of the things i look at when i buy a car- what aftermarket/black market tools are availible for reading codes.
Currently holding lexia/pp2000 for old french cars and to a lesser use the Vauxhall one.
worth their weight in gold SOMETIMES. but you still need to know. For example when trying to find a horn fault my local garage threw fuses at the engine bay fuse board and filled up all the empty slots.
it threw an error code a week later- i threw lexia on it and it threw errors of the ECU being corrupt.
Before doing anything further i decided id google the exact wording of the fault - and low and behold it came up with exactly that - a fuse was shorting out the ECU so it was confused. so i checked out the fuse board in the engine against that in the manual and saw there should be empty slots - soon as i removed the fuses all good.
Im sure the dealer would have had a new ECU in there.
I think its a big con sold by the car industry to protect servicing income.
Hmm, maybe.
I have a feeling more people did more work on cars back in the day, because more work needed doing but also more people were working in mechanically based jobs.
Im sure the dealer would have had a new ECU in there.
Yeah, well not all mechanics know what they are doing. And don't ask me how I know 😉
Ive currently got a Honda FRV and a T5. The Honda hardly ever goes wrong, but I hate working on it - its just not made to be taken apart and the parts feel cheap. The T5 goes wrong but I love working on it, it comes apart easily all the parts feel quality.
Availability of third party software and hacks has become a major factor in my car buying decisions.
The other thing that I'm tending to find is that cars don't just go wrong - when they do its because of a design fault and therefore will have likely occured in hundreds of the same model - a bit of judicious googling never fails to find something.
it threw an error code a week later- i threw lexia on it and it threw errors of the ECU being corrupt
So much throwing in one sentence.
Friend of ours had a Nissan Note for 7 years, nothing whatsoever went wrong with it. Ferried the family around with complete dependability. Then the by now 9 year old battery finally gave up, and she proclaimed how much she hated cars in floods of tears. FFS. People don't know what they've got half the time.
I'd tend to agree, with modern electronics when you plug a laptop in they largely tell you whats wrong with them
Sort of true, but I've seen loads of parts fitted to vehicles that were not required because the garage/home mechanic believed the fault code. Any decent automotive tech will verify the fault first. Unfortunately there are far too many numpties in the trade who will throw parts at a vehicle, charge the customer and still not fix the problem.
Recent example: Customer told fault code (P0342) was because the timing chain was stretched and needed replacing at £600 or so. Actual fault after using oscilloscope to check the camshaft position sensor output was duff sensor. Pattern part had been fitted in the past. Replaced with genuine Bosch. Sorted for £180.
Marko
He knows what he is talking about ^^
molgrips - MemberOffset that with the amount of time required to diagnose an engine fault.
I'll bow to your greater experience of having to diagnose modern engine faults. 😉
I'm afraid I'll always prefer sitting on the wheel of an old Jag tweaking the carbs with a screwdriver to plugging in a computer, reading a fault, removing the entire intake manifold to replace a small sensor to find that you still have the same fault and am none the wiser.
(Poor example above, modern injection systems are way better than carbs, but I wanted to draw from personal experience. Oh, and the latter fault was due to, get this, [Prince Philip] dodgy Indian wiring!!! [/Prince Philip].)
😀
Sort of true, but I've seen loads of parts fitted to vehicles that were not required because the garage/home mechanic believed the fault code. Any decent automotive tech will verify the fault first. Unfortunately there are far too many numpties in the trade who will throw parts at a vehicle, charge the customer and still not fix the problem.
I totally agree with you I'm not trying to say that its always easy - and not often done wrong by home mechanics or bad professionals just that the modern dogma of cars are too complicated to do anything to is simply not true.
In fact I don't think scheduled servicing has become any more difficult at all, yet most people believe its totally outside of their abilities.
benjamins11 - MemberIve currently got a Honda FRV and a T5. The Honda hardly ever goes wrong, but I hate working on it <snip>
The other thing that I'm tending to find is that cars don't just go wrong - when they do its because of a design fault and therefore will have likely occured in hundreds of the same model - a bit of judicious googling never fails to find something.
My Honda ('99 5dr Civic) was a doddle to service. Only thing that ever went wrong was the heater fan stopped working on settings 1 and 2 which I already knew how to fix thanks to googling (before I purchased the car) as you mention. Superbly reliable car, especially considering that the engine saw the redline on every single outing the car had.
Agreed. One of my recent(ish) experiences with my old E46 BMW. It cut out a couple of times while driving but restarted OK, then on about the fifth time it would not restart. Fortunately at home on the drive, not in the fast lane of the M3 !
Anyway, the fault codes identified all four injectors as being the problem. Just the price of reconditioned injectors would be enough to write off a £500 car, even without the labour to fit them. I was despondent.
But it bugged me that it's unlikely all four would fail simultaneously. I suspected the ECU for a while, which also looked expensive, until in desperation I started looking at the wiring and found the wire leading to one of the injectors had chaffed on the fuel line and was shorting out.
Chucking injectors & an ECU at the problem would have cost a fortune and would not have fixed it, but thankfully a couple of bits of insulating tape and it's been perfect ever since 😀
molgrips - MemberFFS. People don't know what they've got half the time.
I know what I'd have: a cut price Nissan Note and a lady in need of a shoulder to cry on. 😈
Oh, and following the computer I replaced the MAP & MAF on my wife's Passat trying to solve a cutting out problem, before Googling and finding it was just a bad earth. The internet is absolutely awesome for diagnosing car problems, I don't know how people fixed stuff in the olden days.
Oh, and following the computer I replaced the MAP & MAF on my wife's Passat trying to solve a cutting out problem, before Googling and finding it was just a bad earth. The internet is absolutely awesome for diagnosing car problems, I don't know how people fixed stuff in the olden days.
+1
I think its only Renaults that are so badly designed that it takes 45mins to change a lightbulb.
Yep my Renault modus is a bumper off job for that, which also involves taking both front wheels off so you can remove the archliners to get to the mounting bolts.
Found out this whilst checking all the lights prior to taking it for a MOT and finding one was blown, queue furious attempts to get everything removed and refitted in time for the test.
That said its good in other ways.
My Golf mk4 needed the bumper taking off to replace the side lights. In went led side lights guaranteed 50000 illuminations.
I think its only Renaults that are so badly designed that it takes 45mins to change a lightbulb.VAG cars might not be as reliable as people make out but its always possible to work on them ...
2006 VW Passat requires front bumper removal to change the driver's side headlight bulb: 2-3 hours workshop time at a main dealer! (Luckily there are shortcuts where you only have to take the front wheel off !?! )
There are modern cars out there with book times of 45mins+ just to change a bulb!
Yep.
I think its only Renaults that are so badly designed that it takes 45mins to change a lightbulb.
Nope.
Around that time to change a bulb on a Ford Puma - handbook has it down as a roadside repair! Oh, how I laughed!
First you need to acquire the bloody great Torq key to undo the bolts holding in the grill and the locating straps for the headlight units, then various drain pipes and sundry other bits, then you have to wiggle and coerce the headlight unit out of the car, then get it open, replace the bulb, reverse the procedure.
Octavia takes roughly two to three minutes.
Why would they design it like that. 😐
It defies belief.
It's like these Range Rovers / Discoveries that need the body lifting clear of the chassis to change a turbo. Something like 20 hours labour. 😐
Couldn't they just put a removable hatch in the floor... 🙂
Why would they design it like that
Exterior designers say car has to look like this, lights have to go here.
Safety people say you need to make it like this
NCAP pedestrian safety people say you need to make it like this
Headlight units have already been designed on a bench
Packaging engineers then have to fit it all in with all these constraints
I think there is EU requirement somewhere stating that headlight should be possible to change with tools in cars own tools... It says nothing about the time though. First time I changed headlight bulbs to my Scenic II it took at least 45mins per side, later it took only 2-3 mins per side as I'd get plenty if practice.
If you want to see modern car design at its finest check Youtube for Alfa 4C windshield washer fluid 🙂
It's like these Range Rovers / Discoveries that need the body lifting clear of the chassis to change a
Same for the fuel pump belt which is a service item at 100k miles 😯 although it can be done in situ if you have the hands and arms of a baby with the strength of Hercules!
2006 VW Passat requires front bumper removal to change the driver's side headlight bulb: 2-3 hours workshop time at a main dealer! (Luckily there are shortcuts where you only have to take the front wheel off !?! )
Am I missing something?