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So, Mrs RRR's horrid Citroen C4 has been sat for 6 months but after some work on the brakes it (surprisingly) passed it's MOT.
Mrs RRR is learning to drive and was very pleased to get back on the road with her car.
She was pleased for one day - the very next day after the MOT the s0dding thing refuses to start, or rather will occasionally decide to but then will refuse once you've driven to Tescos for example.
There are no warning lights, it has a new battery, it turns over fine but appears to not want to spark but then seems fine once it's running.
Any ideas? The only thing that happened prior to it being a sod was that it got a wash.
Thanks
I feel your pain, Citroen electrics are (in my experience) total crap.
My last two Citroens (work vehicles) have both had monthly trips (over the last 3 years) to the dealer for a long list of electrical problems. 🙁
It could be something as simple as a cam position sensor.
Your best bet would be to get it plugged into a diagnostic code reader and see what fault codes are listed.
My renault has an intermittant starting problem which is down to the cam sensor readings being occasionally screwy.
It probably has a coded ignition key that needs to be read by the car after being inserted in the ignition to turn off the immobiliser.
If the ignition key is on a "busy" key ring (lots of tags and charms and sh*t) this can interfere with the process so the immobiliser won't be turned off. (My car, not a Citroen, will crank but not fire if this happens).
Try using the bare ignition key (no keyring) and/or see if the spare key has the same problem.
There was also a recall for C4s for intermittent immobiliser problems.
Is the battery good? Is something draining it?
I had a old (P-Reg) PUG and it was a great car prior to being left on my brothers drive for a year. After that something had corroded and the battery drained.
The car wasn't worth spending money on and I never completely got to the bottom of it but locking with a key instead of the blipper and activating the alarm seemed to help significantly.
Check any fuses in the car for corrosion. I had a similar issue with things not working at random with a car I had sat for a while. The issue was the fuses that were attached to the positive battery terminal had corroded.
Unfortunately this is usually a proprietary part, but I got around it by completely removing it and replacing it with fuse holders. This may not work for you.
I've had the same symptoms on two French cars, both immobiliser related. New ring sensor in the key slot sorted one. Using the spare key and keeping it separate off a keyring sorted the other a bit. Citroen wanted to change the loom. 🙄 I sold the car. French canbus is a rabbit hole I'm not prepared to enter.
pictonroad - Member
I've had the same symptoms on two French cars, both immobiliser related. New ring sensor in the key slot sorted one. Using the spare key and keeping it separate off a keyring sorted the other a bit. Citroen wanted to change the loom. I sold the car. French canbus is a rabbit hole I'm not prepared to enter.
Same here, I had a shitroen c2 with the same issue. Total **** of a car. Had to scrap the bastard in the end. Even WBAC wouldn't take it. 😀
So re the key thing - it's a 2005 and we only have one key for it which appears to be a standard stuff it in the slot type. It just seems odd that it's just randomly started. Battery is brand new and car is fine once started, confusing :-S
key for it ... appears to be a standard stuff it in the slot type.
The coded keys look just like "normal" keys. I think yours will have one - e.g.:
http://www.carkeyhelp.co.uk/acatalog/citroen-c4-replacement-key-va2t.html
Single key for learner car... I'd get another key immediately anyway. 🙂
Years ago we had a C4. Experienced total power failure driving down the A9 from Aviemore. After coasting into the layby and trying to restart, the car would turn over fine but wouldn't start. Turned out to be a controller board for the fuel pump. Seems logical, no fuel flow, no combustion. Just to say, it could be many things.
After that the C4 was gotten rid of.
Previously with the C4 had to fight to get Citroen to replace the tailgate wiring harness. A known fault but apparently ours was not an "affected" car, even although the insulation had been worn down exposing bare live wires at the tailgate hinge. Had to involve VOSA to make Citroen do the work.
Sometimes in these stories, I question whether it is the car manufacturer, or the dealers/ maintaining arm.
Most of the cars on the roads in France are french, and I've never really come across a unusual proportion of people having problems. Yet I'll admit in the UK it seems to be a recurring problem.
Why? Different climate? French keep all the good builds and pass all the Friday built cars to the UK? Just bad awareness of how to fix simple issues by the main dealers and just wanting to swap out whole sections/ items etc?
I had a similar problem with a Clio. It was immobiliser-related. The solution was - and bear with me here - turning on everything before I tried to start the car. Hazards, windscreen wipers, heaters, headlights, fog lights, stereo, door open so inside light was on, the lot. I don't know why it worked but it did. I'm guessing something like an unloaded battery putting too much voltage into the immobiliser ring.
Gah, definitely seems electrical - the main digital display on the dash (speedo etc.) is now off and refuses to come on :-/
I'm not sure where to start..
French keep all the good builds and pass all the Friday built cars to the UK?
Friday is RHD day!
I'm not sure where to start..
Fuses.
When you say "it had a wash" are you talking about a bucket and sponge or a drive-through car wash?
^^ drive thru :-S
[img][url= https://s13.postimg.org/ymks7p2fr/I_fart_in_your_general_direction.jp g" target="_blank">
I used to own a Renault Clio with the cam sensor issue. Solution was to sell the car and buy a Ford. 😆
At the beginning. Despite the battery being new, you need to check it has charge.I'm not sure where to start.
Don't go to Tesco. Somewhere more Euro but I hesitate to suggest Lidl or Aldi for obvious reasons. Decathlon maybe?
It's water. Get the WD40 out, BMC Mini style...
^^ drive thru :-S
There's your answer.
It's water. Get the WD40 out
So, unsurprisingly the car hasn't fixed itself being ignored on the drive for a few weeks.
I've sprayed every electrical thingy with GT85 but to no avail. Bizarrely, the dashboard screen thing not coming on was solved by a quick disconnect and reconnect of the battery so at least I can see I'm doing 0mph now.
Any car electrics gurus want to tell me where to start?
:-S
Thanks
why did you go spraying gt85 around ?
GT85 was a brave choice.
Get someone with a diagnostics thingy to plug it in and see what the computer says?
No wd40 and it's supposed to be a water displacement thingy.
I know diagnostics would be the proper approach but can't move the car and don't know anyone who'd be able to do it :-/
no idea if this is the right one but there's dozens on there at about a tenner.
[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Fault-Code-Reader-Engine-Scanner-Diagnostic-Reset-Tool-OBD-2-EOBD-CAN-BUS/151977163155?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D390bc65e631a4265971fb7481021c6e1%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D27%26sd%3D152152415196 ]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Fault-Code-Reader-Engine-Scanner-Diagnostic-Reset-Tool-OBD-2-EOBD-CAN-BUS/151977163155?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D390bc65e631a4265971fb7481021c6e1%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D27%26sd%3D152152415196[/url]
i use the u340 on my "horrid french electrics" with great success .
minimises parts darts to almost nil.
Where are you? I've got an odb reader and a copy of peugeot planet, I've the install discs for the citroen one that I'll try to get working for you if you're local
Edit: I think the citroen one is called lexia or something, but it's essentially the same.
Edit Edit: Which mod doesn't like the colloquialism of 'something' then. 😉
- take him up on that offer - lexias very powerful - i also have this but only use it if the u340 fails .
My Renault did this, fixed by removing the replays and cleaning them up a bit.
[i]removing the replays and cleaning them up[/i]
twice, but the second time in slow motion?
removing the replays
It would make the match quicker, however unlikely to solve a car electrical problem.
Sobriety - thanks, I'm inbetween Chesterfield and Sheffield. I might look at a fault code reader thingy as my laptop has a smashed screen currently :-/
I just had a look this lunchtime and just don't think it's sparking at all. Unfortunately I don't have a spark plug socket to actually check...
Ah, I'm in Nottingham, so not quite local enough unfortunately.
Get someone with a diagnostics thingy to plug it in and see what the computer says
Communications error: BSI
Communications error: injection ecu
You can thank me later.
Seriously though, are the headlights acting like a random mobile disco / wipers all over the place when the BSI wakes on opening drivers door?
^^ errrrm no, its otherwise acting normal . It just seems to not want to fire :-/
Start simple. Go to Maplins and get a multimeter for £5ish.
Measure battery, report back with voltage.
12.7v is good.
12.4v is 50% flat.
Anything close to 12v and you've probably found your problem.
Then get it started and make sure the voltage is in the range of 14.4v to check its charging.
If its only struggling with hot starting, it could be the camshaft sensor.
You really have got to get the car to a tech who knows how to read his diagnosis readers,
big failure with damp bsi ( car wash) are symptoms I said above, but they can just die with other failure modes.
My best guess and it is a guess with intermittent starting is an internally broken fuel pump relay wire from relay across engine to ecu. Load testing the loom is the only way as this fault can pass enough low current to illuminate an LED tester.
Big clue if it is this is lack of comms when in fault state, and the yellow eml light won't be lit on the dash with ignition on, all others will be lit as normal.
Again I emphasise that's all a guess.
Another guess is someone keeps swapping your engine for a piece of Swiss cheese...
Spooky - battery is brand new and I have today topped it up and checked the voltage.
Ulysse - well it's no longer intermittent starting! It refuses point blank now. As far as I can tell all lights on the dash are as normal. I shall indeed have to get someone to look at it somehow :-/
Has the hallmarks of a cranksensor
You can buy a cheap odb reader for a tenner.
If it does live data you can see the rpm signal
Eurocarparts / FPS/ Andrew Page love people like you 😉
It's the crank sensor...
Nope, Doesn't work :/
It's the cam sensor.
Doesn't work:/
It's the fuel pressure regulator....
Test and prove your theory, bearing in mind if you don't understand how something works, how do you hope to test it?
I reckon you've got some corrosion related electrical problem.
I would check & clean up all the earths,likewise all relays & fuses/fuse holders.
HTH
id plug in diagnostics....
you realise how many contacts youll have to clean up in any modern car bustaspoke ? its not a rover a series 😀
Hell wire the radio up in a modern car and theres a good chance it wont start.
Hell wire the radio up in a modern car and theres a good chance it wont start.
I've bought loads of cheap M59 berlingos with that fault...
[I]You can buy a shitload of sensors for the price of a dealer plug in[/I]
Sometimes it's much cheaper to try the obvious options before paying someone else