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We're desperately keeping our old zafira going with minimal spend until my wife's new works lease car arrives mid October. She's the main driver and often things only get sorted when I notice there's an issue.
Anyway the latest thing is a slow flat I noticed last week; passenger front. The only place she could get it to was Kwik fit who said it was rim damage and said they'd repaired it. It seemed to stay up for a couple of days ,but then was losing pressure overnight again. She took it back today and they said it's a cracked rim (bog standard steel wheel), no idea how bad or any details.
Anyway they've sent her home with the spare on (a second hand, but good wheel and tyre I bought years ago when we realised it had no spare supplied).
I was a bit shocked when she came home with it on as it's 205/65 R15 and all the others are 205/55 R16. Obviously they couldn't swap the tyre on to the spare wheel as they're different sizes, but they appear not to have said you need a new wheel.
So now on the front we've got a 205/55 R16 the same as all the others, and one 205/65 R15 passenger front. The car seems to drive and handle fine but I'm worried they're not the same diameter. Is 55 R16 the same diameter as 65 R15? I can't figure it out.
I really don't want to buy a new wheel if I can as the car will be essentially scrapped mid-October, but should I? It seems kiwkfit told my wife nothing...
Agh yes that's not great but first id Google tyre or wheel size compare and you'll get websites that will allow you to enter all the relevant dimensions and it will tell you what the difference in diameter is.
Cheers , yeh I was thinking as a minimum maybe move it to the rear too.
According to a tyre calculator, the R15 tyre is too great a difference, the R16 being the base tyre
Attention, be careful, this tire overall diameter exceeds the recommended upper limit of 4% for the tire upsizing. The percentage represents a ratio of the overall tire diameter difference between the current tire and the base tire and the base tire sidewall height multiplied by two. The upper limit can rise to 5% for Winter tires. The current percentage is: 7.1%.
It is like like the difference in use between a space saver and a full size tyre, you could use it but at reduced speed?
The 55 and 65 are a percentage of the width (205). So one wheel has a smaller diameter rim with bigger tyre sidewall, and the other three have larger diameter rim with smaller tyre sidewall.
* 15in + 266mm = 381+266 = 647mm
V.s.
* 16in + 225mm = 406+225 = 631mm
I *think*.
So one wheel is a bit larger in diameter.
A call to kwikfit asking them:
- is this safe?
- is this legal?
- why did they not supply and fit a 205/55/R15?
If they didn't have one in stock, they could get one in next day at latest.
You can't really say the car drives and handles fine unless you apply some stress - heavy braking from speed, sharp turning, wet weather performance.
So potentially a 16mm diameter difference... so 8mm axle to road.
Not sure how significant that is, though obviously not what it should be.
We're not fast aggressive drivers in old Zaffy, rarely on a motorway and top out around 55mph on our local driving, but yeh it's a risk...
My polo had 15 inch alloys and a 14 inch steel spare. The profiles were Greater on the 14 inch so the two were very close in diameter and you couldn't tell the difference driving. I was never that happy about it and consequently drove very carefully to the tyre shop. Looking at another polo running a spare, it was sporting one of those yellow stickers that says 80kmh max/50mph, even though it was a proper tyre not a space saver, which look very concerning even at 50mph
I had always planned to get another 15 inch rim to swap over but the car got sold before it happened
Your sizes look fairly common so you may get something on Gumtree, lots of wheels with tyres on there
I reckon any insurance company worth its salt would refuse to pay out in the avent of you being involved in any sort of accident.
Yes this is what would be a concern unless it is an approved (spare) wheel size
go to your local scrapyard, they'll probably have a boggo 16" vauxhall steel wheel, with tyre, for £20 or so
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284994984748?hash=item425b065b2c:g:fBAAAOSw7PRkkXZ5&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0MHKtShQkxIQncw7lCiUXzL7yhWPpOzFHKtboY97mTT2tuh8eX9rWiOWTEZuJE7EB5%2Be5ZDg4w4maICtha0%2BROxUncA6QhrDAkWx7kVTnXFJLzKxS7QOXgbTexQB3qZlYDNzRf4VtK3P86689pu%2BAWes903dCICyTPif9UvwJbSrfkgzmWPS7ez6OZi%2BHu9H0gv5GpO0rihltoPJQrGXzKWGSDKZVrQydl7ITFoRHcASWEshmN5RcOOYCRig2PVaF0cbxcw8AqEFAPN%2FOB0pCDA%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR47Xk5HOYg £50 posted if you can't be bothered with the hassle
I think I'll pop round to the local old school garage tomorrow (he's not been available before) and ask him if he can source a second hand wheel and swap the tyre over to that wheel. The tyre is a fairly new 4 season tyre so don't want to replace that.
Should have said I can't change stuff round myself as my wrists and knees are too buggered.
Wheels and tyres on the same axle (i.e the left and the right at either end) must be of the same size and construction to pass an MOT. Which would suggest it is not legal to drive on mismatched wheels/tyres.
Unless it's a space saver presumably although clearly one won't pass an mot
I've never actually seen anything in writing that says space savers are acceptable. Could just be one of those things where car manufacturers just do as they like and the government are unable to do much about it. See also touchscreen controls.
Legality aside the mechanical issue is the planetary gears within the differential are always turning when the tyre sizes are different on the drive axle - it's like the car is always going round a corner as one wheel turns faster.
It's why you don't put 4x4 vehicles on roller brake testers at MOT time as turning one axle spins the centre diff planetary gears and can seize them.
@crogthomas the AA site says it's ok to drive to the tyre shop on a space saver at reduced speed, but it says there's no distance limit per se. So yes, a bit wooly.
Mrs LD is WFH tomorrow, so going to go to the local breakers tomorrow and see if I can get a correct r16 wheel and get the local garage to swap the tyre and fit. 🤞
And wear a seatbelt, ffs😄😄😄😄
Fairly confident that it's illegal. Definitely not something you'd want to leave long term. I'd assume Kwikfit never realised their mistake.
The smaller wheel 2.5% bigger than the original wheels. Given that the OP wants to nurse the car through 4 weeks of local driving, I’d put it on the back for the sake of the diff (maybe maybe maybe it could cause a bit of heat on a very long fast and straight autobahn but really - its a diff, it will be fine) and get on with it
My transporter has factory R18 wheels and the factory spare is a full size R16 with a taller sidewall. Never calculated the difference but it wouldn’t worry me if I had to use it
Given it's Kwik Fit are you sure the rim is. cracked. I had a slow puncture I assumed was a nail somewhere. As I was replacing a pair of tyres anyway I assumed that would be it. Front offside tyre still losing a few psi a day with the new tyre.
Got the soapy water out and painted it over the valve. Air was escaping round the edge of the valve and the tyre fitter had obviously not fitted a new valve. He replaced the valve. Problem sorted.
Second opinion on the rim?
Do you have any long journeys planned in the next few weeks, or will you be using fast road/ motorways?
If not, I'd be putting the dodgy wheel on the back and instructing the wife take it extra easy (and periodically visually check everything else is still ok), then just ignore it.
If by any change the wife is pulled over by plod and plod notices mis-matched wheels, plead ignorance and show them the receipt from Kwik Fit (unless the Kwik Fit receipt clearly shows it fitted to a different corner!)
Could you put sealant in the tyre with the slow puncture?
Surely you will need to fix the issue before selling or trading the car? Sooner rather than later is best then.
UPDATE: got a second hand wheel with a half decent tyre on from a breakers for £10!
I was tempted to put that straight on, but the local garage is going to swap my 4 season tyre that matches the other front on for me.
In other news on the way back from the scrappy I thought I had a front flat! Stopped and no, the spare wheel kiwkfit had put on was lose as ****! Every nut I could turn with my fingers! Must have done 20miles since they put it on. Glad my wife wasn't driving as I'm sure she'd have not noticed until it fell off.
Wife says it was some trainee with his flies down. They're getting a grumpy email!
the spare wheel kiwkfit had put on was lose as ****! Every nut I could turn with my fingers!
WTF - they'd be getting more than a grumpy email if it was me!
longdog
In other news on the way back from the scrappy I thought I had a front flat! Stopped and no, the spare wheel kiwkfit had put on was lose as ****! Every nut I could turn with my fingers! Must have done 20miles since they put it on. Glad my wife wasn’t driving as I’m sure she’d have not noticed until it fell off.
Wife says it was some trainee with his flies down. They’re getting a grumpy email!
Absolute frigging morons, of all the things to forget. Jesus TF christ.
Kwikfit (like most tyre places) has a 4 eyes principle on nuts. Torque must be checked by 2nd person before vehicle is signed off. So it should be taken seriously as potentially 2 people haven't done their job!
Well there's no doubt they've not torqued them. I know the standard thing is to check tightness after so many miles, but no way should all the bolts be that lose after that short a distance.
Wife has tried ringing as it was her who dealt with them, but just ringing out so, yeh a grumpy eMail naming the guy as she remembered his name and we move on... She only went there as the local guy is always too busy for spur of the moment issues,though he'll swap tyres for me today.
If by any change the wife is pulled over by plod and plod notices mis-matched wheels, plead ignorance and show them the receipt from Kwik Fit (unless the Kwik Fit receipt clearly shows it fitted to a different corner!)
this is brilliant advice as the points will go on Kwikfit’s license rather than your wife’s. 🙂
the police will only be interested in who is driving the car. Not where they shop.
Kwikfit (like most tyre places) has a 4 eyes principle on nuts. Torque must be checked by 2nd person before vehicle is signed off. So it should be taken seriously as potentially 2 people haven’t done their job
they also typically tell you to bring the car back after x miles to have the torq rechecked which is sort of their get out of jail card as nobody ever does.
all four wheels came loose on my GF’s car after it had been into National Tyres. They claimed the four eyes thing, that their torq wrench had been calibrated that day, impossible for it to have been them at fault. Then they told her - absolutely seriously- the likely cause was someone was creeping around our house at night deliberately loosing the wheelnuts on her car
there are no points to be given as this isn't illegal, unless the car is considered to be dangerous. There are no construction and use regs being broken, although the car would fail an MOT.
they also typically tell you to bring the car back after x miles to have the torq rechecked which is sort of their get out of jail card as nobody ever does.
In 30 years of driving I've never been told that.
I've had the opposite problem!
I don't know why wheel nuts cause such a problem... But they do.
Hand tighten them with a tyre iron or better still one of those X wrench jobbies until they are tight enough to rock the car slightly/lift it up on its suspension springs.
The direction of the thread means they won't work loose unless they were never nipped up in the first place... And there's four or five on each wheel anyway.
No need for a torque wrench.
And definatley no need to tighten them up with one of those bloody air gun things... You'll never get them off again by hand of you have a flat.
I once had this.. Went to a garage for 2 new tyres... The bloke couldn't get the nuts of even with a 5 foot long breaker bar... He said.. Mate, I'm going to end up sheering them off if I put any more pressure on them.
He told me to come back the next day and drench the crap out of them with WD40 overnight.
That did the trick but still he had to put so much leverage on the breaker bar, the car was almost bouncing off the ground with the force.
All due to a lazy garage using an air gun a couple of weeks previously when changing the brake pads.