Car tyres, different axles...?

I wouldn't. The most I will do is the same tyres but worn differently. I do swap front to back to even the wear out though. Granted you can't do that with the staggered setup. How about 4 all seasons and keep the 2 good tyres for selling the car or when you want summer tyres again?

TBH for most purposes that'll be fine- yes there's a big maximum grip difference but they're all good tyres, they'll do the job well and give you officially More Grip Than You Need so it doesn't matter much which has Even More Grip and which has Just More Grip Than You Need.

But if you're out in proper winter, pilotsports go off big style and are pretty useless in snow and ice or even mild slush, so you'll have the potentially evil combo of grip for drive but not to steer or stop. That puts you way further into "having to think about everything all the time" than I'd be comfortable with personally, it's a getting-into-trouble combo.

But if you’re out in proper winter, pilotsports go off big style and are pretty useless in snow and ice or even mild slush, so you’ll have the potentially evil combo of grip for drive but not to steer or stop. That puts you way further into “having to think about everything all the time” than I’d be comfortable with personally, it’s a getting-into-trouble combo.

This is my thought, my trip includes the A40 across the Cotswolds and yes the PS will be hopeless & they are overkill for a family estate anyway. All four Conti's will cost £675, all 4 MPS4's/Primacy's in the region of £750.

keep the 2 good tyres..

I'm unlikely to swap tyres TBH, so may be better off biting the Conti bullet and selling the spare PS's. However tyre reviews have got to my head - 2nd in the first review I read, 14th in the next ffs.... that really doesn't help.

Thing is, reviews are usually of one size on one car, and not necessarily the same sizes and the same cars for different tyres, so there can be loads of difference. Pinches of salt needed for sure. Same as the ratings

Modern allseasons are bloody awesome, provided you can stomach the price... I'm still a "2 sets of wheels" person though, good condition winter/allseason tyres on wheels can often be bought cheaply since people sell their cars then sell the wheels separately- I've never bought a new winter tyre... But you do need storage space (mine just live under a cover in teh garden)

I did the opposite on my Berlingo, Conti winter tyres on the front, cheap Firestone somethingorothers on the back. It still understeered like an understeery thing.

It MAY affect the balance on a more balanced car. And the effects MAY be more pronounced in actual snow than on a wet roundabout.

But in any normal, not driving like a tit, not trying to be a hero on snow/ice conditions, you'll probably never notice.

TINAS, my high level of anxiety couldn't cope with that mix on a RWD car.

Bloody mental challenge of this pisses me off.

On top of that the other one likely needs a new injector and is sitting outside the nearest garage awaiting an estimate.

What a minefield. OK, so Asda Tyres (who knew!) have the PSS at £215 much cheaper than anywhere else, so I may get those x 2 rears for safety which will then get me to a point of replacing all four as the fronts wear.

I can always get the train to Gloucester / manage my diary as I mainly WFH anyway !

Different combination I know but I did winters front, summers rear - on a fwd car. It was basically okay until snow was laying, at which point the back end was letting go. It was alarming to say the least, I was travelling at very modest speeds to suit the conditions. We are talking highland winter though. It was barely correctable, saved only by how slowly I was travelling

I'd echo what northwind says about tyre ratings, they can vary according to size so it's worth doing a bit of digging to get past the headline figures. My current tyres are quite disappointing in larger sizes for example. The size I have are allegedly good

From memory the conti all seasons weren't as good as some of the competition IIRC, having said that they change all the time so maybe take that with a pinch of salt. Also have you checked Halfords prices? They had a killer deal on Goodyear Vector 4seasons recently, worth a look maybe

FWD and RWD are very different for mixing winter capability- fwd with winters/allseasons on the front you have go, but also a good amount of stop and steer- the rear is less stable but depending on the car it might barely be an issue (my focus's rear brakes were so pathetic that it wasn't much of an issue on braking, and in corners ie stepping out the rear it was just a case of driving carefully and was imo never any worse than having 4 normal/summer tyres on.

But rwd is different, because you've got go, but not much stop or steer. At least with no grip at all you won't go anywhere. If I was going to do a mix on the mx5, I'd put winter/allseason on the front, that way it'd definitely get stuck but at least it'll not be stuck around a lamppost/bus full of nuns

Thank Kormorman I had a look - as usual its the Rear 255/40/18 which provides to be the issue.

So its an "old" Pilot Supersport or an "old" Conti all-season or stump up £750 for 4 x MPS5's and be done with it to get 4 the same.

The PSS x 2 rear is cheaper and by the time they are gone (these have done 30,000 and lets face it I haven't had issues with them), they are A rated for wet) the MPS7 will be out 😀

Modern allseasons are bloody awesome, provided you can stomach the price

It's that really true any more? I had a set of Vector G3 out on my car this morning for £92 a corner which seemed pretty reasonable to me. Mind you, there's a lot to be said for having one of the commonest tyre sizes out there - 225/45 17 f&r...

Those saying it's ok to have all seasons or winters in the front only need to think about emergency situations. Yes you may drive carefully but you cannot account for other stupid people. If you need to take evasive action and there is any element of damp and/or cold you'll be off the road and potentially making the situation worse.

@Marky, my experience was that there's absolutely no situation where I'd choose all "summer" tyres over front winters and rear summers. That was with fairly allroundy rears so not your pilotsport style "5 slicks in a row" with no cross treading.

The comparison to make isn't with 4 winters, it's with none. And on my car at least, it was much better than none. It wouldn't work on my current cars or on kryton's.

I agree with markyg82. Cold damp morning, driving to work and you need to make a sudden high speed swerve to avoid another driver or even just a hard stop halfway out of a roundabout whilst turning is not the time you want to find the car stepping out of line. Even if you have the aforementioned "which has Even More Grip and which has Just More Grip Than You Need"

For a RWD, all seasons on the back and summers on the front means you are likely to be able to drive up a slippery hill much better than your ability to control your speed or direction on the way back down. I know I've managed to nurse a FWD car up a slippery hill only to find coming back down safely is much harder and that was on matched tyres. A throttle allows for much more delicate control than the lack of feel through the brake pedal.

All summers are safer than mixed in my opinion, all seasons all year would be the simple and easiest solution. Fit a full set of all-seasons and just sell or bin those 5mm fronts.

Fit a full set of all-seasons and just sell or bin those 5mm fronts.

Having slept on it, this is where I’m heading I think. The only thing is those Conti’s are not BMW marked, whereas the others are - does that matter…. I guess not.

Fit a full set of all-seasons and just sell or bin those 5mm fronts.
snip...this is where I’m heading I think

IANATyre Expert.
Newest tyres should go to the rear.
Understeer is considered more controllable by the average motorist than oversteer and a RWD BMW is already pre-disposed to oversteer, so why put the worse set at the rear?
In the event of disaster DSC is going to apply a rear brake in an attempt to sort oversteer out, except that the rear tyres have the worst grip.
Braking in a car is biased to the front, you need grip at the rear to hold a line.
If you have a mix of crossplies and radial tyres (doesn't happen much these days) it's illegal to have the radials on the front axle, they must go to the rear for reasons of safer characteristics rather than which is newer.
Consider the cost of your insurance excess (ignoring other consequences) and weigh that against buying two additional tyres so that all four have the same characteristics.
IANATyre Expert, in case you missed that 🙂 so go with professional advice from the tyre fitter

Conti’s are not BMW marked

Do you mean the BMW star mark? That's a run-flat mark and means that the tyres are approved, again talk to the fitter, but I'm sure that other makes will meet the necessary standards

The only thing is those Conti’s are not BMW marked, whereas the others are – does that matter…. I guess not.

I think he means the OE BMW designation. From what I've read, the OE specific versions of tyres are different, but not necessarily worse. They've been tuned to how the manufacturer wanted the tyre to be, but that may not even align with how you want it to be. Or it might.

I've no idea why tyre manufacturers work like this - the model names are almost worthless, and you really don't know what you're actually getting.

Having slept on it, this is where I’m heading I think. The only thing is those Conti’s are not BMW marked, whereas the others are – does that matter…. I guess not.

FWIW I run Bridgestone Potenza's on my 19" summer wheels and Pirelli SottoZero's on my 18" winter wheels. Runflats & BMW 'marked'. IME it's no dearer to run the specific tyres, once you've decided to use 'quality' manufacturers.

Mine's an xDrive and when my winters go on (couple of weeks ago, as my summer fronts were shagged), the pair with the most tread went on the rear.

it’s no dearer to run the specific tyres, once you’ve decided to use ‘quality’ manufacturers.

The issue isn't the price, its that the Conti All Seasons are not BMW specific.

I just run winter wheels/tyres in winter and summer/wheels/tyres in summer. A second hand (barely used) set of OEM BMW winter wheels/tyres was basically the same price as 4x new winter tyres.

The issue isn’t the price, its that the Conti All Seasons are not BMW specific.

Buy another make then - I recommend Pirelli SottoZero, work great on mine for 'making progress'.

Understeer is considered more controllable by the average motorist than oversteer and a RWD BMW is already pre-disposed to oversteer, so why put the worse set at the rear?

Exactly. At least if you are limited by front grip, you will crash at a lower speed and the car will at least follow a predictable trajectory. Having front grip, but no rear grip will likely mean you are going faster when you lose grip plus your futile attempts at controlling it will send you off in random directions. On a racetrack, sure. On a public road, no way.

A second hand (barely used) set of OEM BMW winter wheels/tyres was basically the same price as 4x new winter tyres.

To go back to the OP - my rears need replacing anyway, this isn't a question of swapping to suit the

condition, but replacing worn rears for potentially x 4 something different

Buy another make then

Again as above, there's very limited options at 255/40/18 XL with the same tyre on 225/45/18 XL at the front.

The only thing is those Conti’s are not BMW marked, whereas the others are – does that matter…. I guess not.

Yes it does. the star rated tires are generally quite different to the bog standard rubber. On bmw its not about it being cheaper they often have better grip / different compounds.

Depends on your driving. I would go for summer rubber all round (so you could just get 2 new for the rear). That would cheapest. Or if you want to drive in cold conditions all season all round.

Northwind
Full Member

FWD and RWD are very different for mixing winter capability- fwd with winters/allseasons on the front you have go, but also a good amount of stop and steer- the rear is less stable but depending on the car it might barely be an issue (my focus’s rear brakes were so pathetic that it wasn’t much of an issue on braking, and in corners ie stepping out the rear it was just a case of driving carefully and was imo never any worse than having 4 normal/summer tyres on.

But rwd is different, because you’ve got go, but not much stop or steer. At least with no grip at all you won’t go anywhere. If I was going to do a mix on the mx5, I’d put winter/allseason on the front, that way it’d definitely get stuck but at least it’ll not be stuck around a lamppost/bus full of nuns

If you have to swerve and the tyre on the back is worse* it will cause the car's balance to tend towards oversteer

(*in the conditions you're in - so this could be that you have a winter on the front and summer rear in cold weather, or a summer on the front and winter on the rear in hot conditions, or a more worn rear and newer front in wet conditions)

Front or rear drive makes no difference to the above.

Yes it does. the star rated tires are generally quite different to the bog standard rubber. On bmw its not about it being cheaper they often have better grip / different compounds.

a bit of research shows the PSS is dual compound with a wet centre half of the tread (hence the A rating) and the BMW compound is even slightly softer.

And you’re right, it’s the cheaper option (£200 ea for BMW star at Costco) at least until the fronts need replacing as well. Considering I drove at 60mph on the motorway in heavy rain in confidence and no blinking lights recently with only 2mm left a new set and sensible cold weather choices will be fine.

Job done, I’ve finished tying myself up in knots over it!

thols2
Free Member

Exactly. At least if you are limited by front grip, you will crash at a lower speed and the car will at least follow a predictable trajectory. Having front grip, but no rear grip will likely mean you are going faster when you lose grip plus your futile attempts at controlling it will send you off in random directions.

On a rwd car, grip on the front but not on the rear doesn't mean you'll be going faster when you lose grip- you'll lack drive so your lack of grip becomes "I am stuck" not "I have crashed". And very importantly, when you're going, you know perfectly well that you have no rear end grip so it's constantly in your mind. Whereas if you have good grip on teh back but not the front, that gives you the ability to pull away effortlessly then discover the lack of grip in a corner/emergency.

Neither is good!

multi21
Free Member

If you have to swerve and the tyre on the back is worse* it will cause the car’s balance to tend towards oversteer

Correct- but if you have to swerve and you don't have grip on the front, you just don't swerve at all and just hit whatever you wanted to swerve. That's worse. What you're basically saying is "if you lose control with grip on the front but not the back then that's worse" and that's true but the key part is, you're way less likely to lose control in the first place.

Like I say, it may be car specific. With my Focus, the rear end was doing very little, and so even when it had little grip, it could still get the job done reasonably well. I'd have still preferred to have allseasons or winters on all 4 corners but 2 winters and 2 allrounders (NOT sporty "summer tyres", just "normal tyres") worked a lot better than 4 allrounders.

Again, it's about framing it correctly. It should never be seen as compared to 4 winters/allseasons. It should be seen as compared to no winters/allseasons.

Not directly related to the OP, but some of the comments on here have me wondering... 🤔

I've just replaced the worn fronts on my (fwd) Ford Grand Tourneo Connect with new Michelin Crossclimates. The rears are still reasonably legal. Am I a crash waiting to happen?

As I see it, the new tyres on the front will give me better drive and braking grip in all conditions. The rear is no more likely to oversteer under sudden braking than it was before I replaced the fronts, but overall, the better grip from the new fronts will allow better control/shorter stopping distances than I had before on the worn fronts?

The only situation where oversteer is a risk is if I'm travelling faster in corners because of the extra grip afforded by the new fronts?

(It's essentially a van, and I'm a much more moderate driver these days than I was in my 20s and 30s ... I'm not really into 'pressing on'!)

Correct- but if you have to swerve and you don’t have grip on the front, you just don’t swerve at all and just hit whatever you wanted to swerve. That’s worse. What you’re basically saying is “if you lose control with grip on the front but not the back then that’s worse” and that’s true but the key part is, you’re way less likely to lose control in the first place.

Sorry my friend but a car is far better at withstanding a front hit than a sideways one. Even ignoring the possibility of completely spinning into an oncoming lane etc, understeer is always safer for that reason alone compared to having oversteer and hitting something side on.

It's all very marginal though.

Even in the worst case on snow winter tyres are only 20% reduction in bracing distance. So even summer tyres are less likely to get you in trouble than winters if you reduce your speed by 10mph in the snow. And the difference is about half that on a wet road (10%/5mph). Which is almost nothing when you consider just the wet bit is adding 100% to the dry road stopping distance.

Sure the unexpected might happen and you need to swerve, but that misplaced confidence to "make progress" in any conditions where they actually make a difference, you're probably net more likely to take a childs face off / kill baby robins than the sensible person on summer tyres who isn't in a hurry and just drives to the conditions.

I recommend Pirelli SottoZero, work great on mine for ‘making progress’.

@hardtailpnly
https://kumhotyre.co.uk/kumho-news/should-you-fit-new-tyres-to-the-front-or-rear/
Conti say, "The tyre industry recommends fitting the new tyres onto the rear axle.", but there may be exceptions so ask the vehicle manufacturer (scroll down) https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/b2c/tyre-knowledge/mixing-tyres.html
Various tyre chains repeat the same advice

^^^^

Read that. Still doesn't make sense (to me)

Braking in a straight line (eg slowing/ stopping on a motorway) then better grip on the front makes sense.

Cornering ... assuming I'm cornering at the same speed as before the new front tyres, the rear tyres have just as much grip as they did before when I had the worn ones on the front, so again, no different, or no more susceptible to oversteer, than before?

The only scenario i can see there being more risk is if I am cornering faster, because the new front tyres give me greater grip, and so the higher speed may make the rear more susceptible to oversteer/breakaway? But then, that would be dickish driving of me?

(I did do thus, at the age of about 18, in my Mum's Renault 5 ... just had new front tyres fitted, I was 'pressing on' on a greasy roundabout, lifted off an Wooaaahhh ... there goes the rear! Didn't hit anyone/anything fortunately!)

"Even in the worst case on snow winter tyres are only 20% reduction in bracing distance. "

Where did you hear that? It's utter bollox!

On black ice or week old compacted snow Nothing will stop you, except studded tyres or chains, but in snow that ain't the "worst case" winter tyres will stop you, steer you, and get you going way more than 20% better!

They’ve been tuned to how the manufacturer wanted the tyre to be, but that may not even align with how you want it to be. Or it might.

Depends if you want the reduced CO2 outputs that the OEM wanted to squeak into a lower tax bracket when submitting the car for testing prior to going on the market.
For what it’s worth, I don’t run the BMW tyres anymore, I ditched the runflats also. And in any case I’d not mismatch winter and summer tyres. It is an imbalance and ‘surprise’ handling characteristic waiting to happen.

multi21
Free Member

Sorry my friend but a car is far better at withstanding a front hit than a sideways one.

You're not choosing between two crashes. I'm not sure, is it that I'm not explaining well?

Generally better to fit new tyres to rear as the front letting go can immediately be felt through the steering and is easily and quickly corrected by easing off. Fitting new tyres to the front may be lovely for acceleration and braking in a dead straight line but even lifting off, let alone emergency braking, on a bend is asking for trouble. The grippy front tucks in, the slippy back says 'nope' and your arse end is going sideways. That takes a lot of (hopefully empty) road to correct and, in a front wheel drive car, requires a counter-intuitive application of throttle to make the front end speed up and pull the back end back in line. Good luck with that when there's a wall on your nearside and artic in the other lane. I'd never have a mix of summer / winter / all season on a car. Always have the same type on all 4 wheels, with the newer pair on the back.

The only scenario i can see there being more risk is if I am cornering faster, because the new front tyres give me greater grip, and so the higher speed may make the rear more susceptible to oversteer/breakaway? But then, that would be dickish driving of me?

The danger is that having grippy tyres on the front can lead you to misjudge how slippery the conditions are. You might think you are driving at a safe speed, then have to lift off mid corner, only to find the rear end sliding. If that happens on a public road with oncoming traffic, you are probably headed for a huge crash.

With less grip on the front, the front tyres won't slide if you lift off, the limit will be under brakes. However, modern cars all have anti-lock so you will still be able to steer even if you stand on the brakes as hard as you can. Much safer in an emergency to be limited by front grip than rear grip.

The only scenario i can see there being more risk is if I am cornering faster...snip

Michelin tests at MIRA using Cross Climate tyres, new to the front

Michelin tests at MIRA using Cross Climate tyres, new to the rear

The rear is no more likely to oversteer under sudden braking than it was before I replaced the fronts, but overall, the better grip from the new fronts will allow better control/shorter stopping distances than I had before on the worn fronts?

Very rare for a road to be completely flat, most have a camber one way or another and as you brake the rear of the car can pull left/right, especially when you've worm tyres. Most people then panic, that's when the accident occurs.

As an ex-motorcyclist, all-weather, you quickly learn how important tyres & grip are... - just not something I choose to risk.

Oh gosh, I found out the £200 Pilot Super Sports at Asda & Costco are not the Extra Load versions I need so they'd be £560 a pair, ouch. However, a 10% discount for Conti all seasons at Blackcircles today mean all 4 wheels shod with those would be £615...

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure.... aaaargh!

Well, every day's a school day! Guess I can't really argue against those Mira test videos! I can either swap the wheels around ... but I am wanting good front grip/traction for the winter ... or pony up for another pair of new tyres. Anyone know of a budget version of all weather tyres, I'd be smarting at another £260 for Crossclimates.

ven in the worst case on snow winter tyres are only 20% reduction in bracing distance. ”

Where did you hear that? It’s utter bollox!

On black ice or week old compacted snow Nothing will stop you, except studded tyres or chains, but in snow that ain’t the “worst case” winter tyres will stop you, steer you, and get you going way more than 20% better!

Those are the figures from the continental website, or rather those are the figures converted to percentages. Maybe you should write to their marketing department and let them know that in your opinion as a driving god their tyres are even better than they claim?

I didn't include ice, black or otherwise, as no tyre grips on those so it becomes a meaningless comparison to say "in the worst case in conditions you shouldn't have gone out in anyway, they're not any better than summer tyres".

We had a nice snow day here about 10 years ago. We had great fun looking out the window at the back of our work watching all the cars trying to move around.
The best was a BMW with one set of snow socks. The driver decided to fit them to the rear so he could go. When he came to the T junction it took him about 10 tries to actually turn. Eventually he built up a bit of a ridge to bounce the front tyres off and slowly inch around, then repeated at the next intersection.

I am looking for new tyres for my car. One thing I am battling to understand is the winter focus all season, vs a wet/cold focus. The new Michelin CrossClimate 2 seems to be very snow focused, yet here in the IOM, we get very little snow, and what we do get is on the ground for a very short period.
So a more wet weather/cold focus would seem to be better suited. The best in that regards seemed to be the Hankook tyre, although it seems they don't make it in my required size.
And the all seasons are pretty expensive, so why not go with something like a Bridgestone summer tyre with a A wet rating? Too many choices.

Oh gosh, I found out the £200 Pilot Super Sports at Asda & Costco are not the Extra Load versions I need so they’d be £560 a pair, ouch. However, a 10% discount for Conti all seasons at Blackcircles today mean all 4 wheels shod with those would be £615…

I used to be indecisive but now I’m not so sure…. aaaargh!

Isn't the question you should be asking yourself first, whether you need/want all-season or summer tyres rather than agonising over prices? I run winter tyres on steels in winter and summer tyres on alloys in summer, but then I live in the Peak District and occasionally it gets quite grim in winter.

If I had one set of wheels and tyres for year-round use, I'd probably run all-seasons though.

Could you not just get the all-season option, stash the part-used summer tyres somewhere and then, if you feel the need, you could always revisit going back to summer tyres all round next spring?

It's threads like these that make me glad I have an ancient car with small wheels and correspondingly cheapo tyres and don't drive very much 🙂

And the all seasons are pretty expensive, so why not go with something like a Bridgestone summer tyre with a A wet rating? Too many choices.

Look at another way, when my winters are on, I'm saving my summers etc - they cost about the same, as they're both quality tyres. The only actual additional cost was the extra set of wheels and then the £20 twice a year when I get them swapped.

People need to understand that winter tyres are not snow tyres. They are merely more suitable for cold conditions. That includes dry.
I've said it before but the default tyre choice in the UK should be all seasons regardless of if you live in the peaks or Cornwall.

Isn’t the question you should be asking yourself first, whether you need/want all-season or summer tyres rather than agonising over prices?

Yes. Let’s face it, my car is a family diesel estate and that car and also at my time of life it won’t be going around a track, nor will I be “making progress”. I like to get to places quickly but safely and within legal limits.

I did say - and this is a self reminder - that I wanted to be reassured over the Cotswolds in winter and have more chances of entering / exiting a wet field for XC racing than I have now which kind dictates that I should go for the all seasons all around.

I have nowhere to store a 2nd set, so am looking for an all year set, but as per the tyre reviews test, some are snow focused, some are cold/wet focused. It is not as simple as use an all-season tyre.

Play around with the percentages in here:
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre-Tests/Results-Grid/2022-Tyre-Reviews-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

Northwind

You’re not choosing between two crashes. I’m not sure, is it that I’m not explaining well?

Maybe? lol 🤷‍♂️ What I'm replying to was this: "if you have to swerve and you don’t have grip on the front, you just don’t swerve at all and just hit whatever you wanted to swerve. That’s worse. "

Hence my reply, if you swerve and the car doesn't respond, you hit the object front on. This is bad. If instead you swerve and the car kicks into oversteer, you could hit the object side on, this is very bad. If the oversteer is large you could spin completely into the oncoming lane. This is extremely bad.
Therefore if you must have an imbalance, best tyre for the conditions should be on the rear.

The above is just for the car occupants. I forgot to mention that cars are designed not to injure pedestrians in frontal impacts, I don't believe they are in side-on impacts.

Hence my reply, if you swerve and the car doesn’t respond, you hit the object front on. This is bad. If instead you swerve and the car kicks into oversteer, you could hit the object side on, this is very bad. If the oversteer is large you could spin completely into the oncoming lane. This is extremely bad.

Think about it from the perspective of oval track racing cars - Indycars, Nascar, etc. They are always set up to understeer a bit because losing the rear end is utterly lethal with a concrete wall next to you. If the rear end steps out and you steer into the slide to correct it, you now have your front wheels pointed at the wall. If you manage to catch the slide, you have a fraction of a second to unwind the steering or you will steer yourself straight into the wall. With an understeer balance, you will be winding on lock as you lose grip, which will steer you away from the wall. Much safer.

Driving on the road is similar - you have cars in the other lane that you really do not want to hit. If the back of the car steps out and you try to catch the slide, you now have your front wheels aimed either at the other lane (in a LH turn) or at pedestrians (in a RH turn). It's much harder to keep your vehicle within your lane with lack of rear grip than with lack of front grip, which is exactly what the videos above show.

They may be snow focused but they are still all seasons which would serve you better than a summer based tyre for year round use.

They may be snow focused but they are still all seasons which would serve you better than a summer based tyre for year round use.

Yep.

My last car came with 20" Pirelli's that weren't recommended to be used below 7c it's not unusual to be lower in Scotland, in summer...

multi21
Free Member

Hence my reply, if you swerve and the car doesn’t respond, you hit the object front on. This is bad. If instead you swerve and the car kicks into oversteer, you could hit the object side on, this is very bad. If the oversteer is large you could spin completely into the oncoming lane. This is extremely bad.

The point is the "if". You are comparing the certainty of hitting something going forwards, with the possibility of a worse loss of control. You're not just choosing the method of your crash, you're changing the likelihood also.

Like I say, I'm speaking from experience of my own car, having the winter tyre grip on the front didn't suddenly turn the car into a boomerang. I'd rather have 4 winter/allseason tyres and that's what I do now, but that's beside the point. 2 winters and 2 normal tyres was categorically better than 4 normal tyres. I think if you'd had the same experience you'd agree. I think if I hadn't had this experience, I'd probably agree with you.

This is all pretty far from the OP's question, mind, since that's a rwd car.

Well after reading that the size I needed was scored No2 and "Exemplary" by Autobild after being tested on a 3 series I made the sensible decision and ordered the All Season Contacts.

2 x 5mm BMW 18" fronts for sale.... 😀

I'd love some winter wheels for the Merc but it's just not worth it really. You can't get steel wheels in that size, so it's at least £400 for new alloys and another £600 for tyres. Of course, the ride was better with the staggered wheels so I could get some new ones of those in 18 for summers and use my non-staggered ones for summers. Or, for the same money, I could buy a nice bike...

Moral of the story - don't buy a fancy car!

don’t buy a fancy car!

FTFY, on top of the tyres the other car has just cost a new diesel injector supplied and fitted, its a very expensive month.

Moral of the story – don’t buy a fancy car!

Don't buy a car with a staggered wheel fitment or a ridiculous tyre size if running costs and a narrower choice of rubber is going to be important to you.

ridiculous tyre size

I'm a victim of not doing my research - my car was 1 of two identical ex-demo's when I bought it, the only difference was the other was 19" RFLT, and I preferred the ride of my 18" NRFLT. I didn't realise at the time the 18's is not a common size, the car with 19" wheels would have been cheaper for tyres in the main, and with all-seasons has much more variety.

Hey ho.

I’m a victim of not doing my research

TBF, faced with the shiny new car on a dealer forecourt, few do. My car's the earlier less whizzy looking gen to yours and even that was delivered in tyre sizes from 16 and 17 square to 18 and 19 staggered. I've the second most sensible option because that's what it had as a s/h purchase, I'd have been fine with the 16s, the larger sized would have given me pause.

None of the sizes on mine are common. It's not the worst thing, but what does irritate me is that you can't get the super quiet tyres with the damping foam inside in my size.