You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Inspired by the expensive things that are worth it thread, I'm thinking about car tyres.
I need to put a set of all seasons on Miss OTS' new (to her) car.
Are the Michelin/Goodyear/Continental offerings really worth 50% more than something like Kumho or Nankang?
I'm not entertaining generic ditch finders, and of course yes, her safety is my priority, but are the M, G & C offerings safer?
By chucking 'all season' into the mix you're steering towards the premium brands as the all-season performance is the deciding factor.
We've had Pirelli Scorpion Verde's on my wife's 4WD Kuga for the last 5 years and they've been brilliant. Lasted ages, grip well and easily worth the extra over mid-range all-seasons.
For normal tyres I've always gone mid-range (usually Toyo's).
The tests on YouTube will show you how the tyres behave in"real" conditions. I've looked into this a little and the tyres all have good and bad points as the conditions vary.
All season tyres are a compromise anyway. They are all safe but some are better performers than others in different conditions.
I usually buy tyres in the upper mid range. I went for Uniroyal all season max for the campervan as I couldn't get the Falken tyres I wanted locally. Hankook are usually worth a look at too.
Yes. In an emergency stop, it's the difference between crashing at 40mph or 20mph, or it's the difference between crashing and not crashing.
Yes/no/maybe... Only you can decide!
For what it's worth... Have had much better grip/feel/performance out of Goodyear Vector 4 seasons Gen3 than I did with Michelin Crossclimate 2's... The Michelins have a VERY soft sidewall and puncture easily too...
By chucking 'all season' into the mix you're steering towards the premium brands as the all-season performance is the deciding factor.
Even within all seasons it depends on the manufacturer's intended purpose. Some are more geared towards the winter tyre end of the spectrum; others more at the normal tyre end.
FWIW I go for upper mid range. Currently got two sets of Nankangs (yes, I'd now consider Nankang as upper mid range - wouldn't have years ago though). All season on the van in 215/65r16c with wet grip B rated, same as the Pirelli all seasons they replaced. Car has Nankang's 'ultra performance' AS-2+ (wet grip A) which replaced Michelin Pilot Sport 4s - favourable reviews among the tyre testing outlets, and they feel great to me.
Mid level are fine. Depends where you live. Got Cross Climates on MrsF's car as she wanted all seasons. Don't really need them where we live, but they are good in poor weather - it's not a performance car !
My van has Michelin on rear, Goodyear on front as the dealer replaced the fronts when I bought it second hand - it's running XL car tyres as it's classed as a car.
I'd say so, I fitted a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 5 tyres 18 months ago, the grip in wet/dry/warm/cool conditions is incredible and the wear rate is too. PS5 are basically PS4 but with much slower wearing. At £110 a corner fitted, I can't see any benefit in fitting budget tyres at £80 each.
Doesn't suit every vehicle or driver, and if your car has far more expensive sized tyres then a mid-range tyre will likely work 90% as well for 50% of the cost.
In the same way, if you live somewhere with less moderate weather than the bulk of the UK, then maybe the compromise of a all-season or even winter / summer tyres might suit you. The UK is known for moderate weather with warm summers, mild winters and frequent but rarely extreme rain. I personally don't think the majority of British vehicles need anything more than a decent all arounder aka 'summer' tyre, but get what suits you.
I'm using the Kuhmo all seasons on my van right now. Have had a couple of pairs of Maxxis previously too. Now while I'm not driving it like Colin McRay, they do me great, including uphill in some actual snow last winter.
Although I've never tried them, I'm not minded to spend the extra on Michelin's any time.
Yes. In an emergency stop, it's the difference between crashing at 40mph or 20mph, or it's the difference between crashing and not crashing.
That's a bold claim. Any evidence?
I'm very much of the opinion, that you already have a small contact patch on the tyres keep you on the road, so don't skim on cheap ones.
Though there's a difference between cheap tyres and tyres in the more affordable range, and when many of hear names like Kumho or Nankang are simply put off. That said both Kumho & Nankang have been making tyres for 60 years and my car mad friend is happy to use them
Usually, yes. Spending 120 quid a corner instead of 60 might not get you twice as much use, but for the entire duration of the tyres life they'll steer better, stop better and (probably) be quieter too.
They might last 50% longer, maybe.
Last cheapies i bought were awful for the entire 50000km i had them, put some slightly less cheapies (basic goodyears IIRC) and they were much better. Then i sold the car.
The high end tyres i get on my company cars are excellent, they last ages and grip *exceedingly* well.
They're also usually well north of 200 a corner (a 30 second google shows the cheapest i can get the current ones at is about £235 a corner. The winters are a bit more.)
On an all season tyre, one that performs at the top of its cohort, the technology is largely in the compound. Getting that right across the huge range of temperatures they’re designed to work within is where the cash goes. I’d trust Michelin, Goodyear, Conti and Nokian to get that right, everyone else I’d view with a great deal of scepticism - particularly Pirelli given their new ownership and the abysmal set of Sottezeros I had on the Abarth once.
I’d actually spend more on an all season tyre than its equivalent full winter or summer tyre.
only after 2-3 pints
Its 5pm. Friday. November. Long week at work. Your on the M62. Its wet, bit windy, the traffic is crap. Glance at the radio. Glance up.A split second. A sea of Red Lights. Car veering into your lane ahead.
"Oh boy I sure am happy I saved £30 a corner by choosing the super-gripmaster-pro-china-black n' rounds that just happened to be available on the shelf the day I sent my car for its MOT" your thinking as your ABS and Traction Control lights flashes manicly, and you comprehend your choices as you aquaplane directly into the boot of that BMW ahead.
You don't get a choice in that situation. You don't get a choice when you spot someone running a red light out the corner of your eye.
You do get a choice when buying tyres, and that includes when its 'just for the run-around', or 'its only the wifes car, so it doesnt matter'.
I think its obvious where I stand on cheap tyres.
Yes premium brands generally are better all round
Living in the midlands it doesn’t warrant me getting cross climate for the 1 day a year the temperature drops
Based on my driving it’s more important to have a tyre that stops well is good in the rain
With a half decent car you can tell differences in tyres even within the same brand
Alot of cheaper brands go for a harder compound cause it’s cheaper and makes them last. Also makes them more fun to drive depending on your point of view
Get your tyre pressures and wheel alignment right for the win
Some of the latest all season tests are pretty eye opening once you get out of the top 5. Iirc wet braking is significantly poorer outside the top brands. I think one review even went so far as recommending you didn't buy particular tyres as the performance was deemed unsafe in certain tests.
In my experience there is often a good but lower priced tyre that ranks highly but they just aren't readily available.
Currently on cc 2, previous were conti. Both excellent tyres. The CCS are wearing well so reasonably good value at the moment
I think its obvious where I stand on cheap tyres.
We have Khumo all seasons on Mrs IRCs car. It was almost the only all season choice in the weird Suzuki Ignis tyre size - 175/60 R16. They are fine. Used on snow a few days decent grip. Get favourable reviews. Fairly close to Cross Climates.
https://toptirereview.com/michelin-crossclimate-2-vs-kumho-solus-4s-ha32/
I'd consider fitting them to my car when the time comes if they were a good bit cheaper than the current Goodyears.
Avoid the really cheap ones. We had a pair put on to get through the MOT, genuinely thought the gearbox was on its way out until they needed changing again- it was the tyres making a horrible whining noise.
Always been happy with the mid range, Yokohama, Kumho etc.
Evo tire (group ) test is worth a read
https://www.evo.co.uk/features/207242/best-car-tyres-2024-evo-tyre-test
Will it answer your question exactly - no, but it might give an idea of the differences between some tires.
I've not seen them do all season tire tests but I stopped reading Evo every month quite some time ago.
I've had a few tyre-sensitive cars over the years and have settled on Kumho/Vredestein/Toyo as the happy middle ground. I've never really noticed too much of a difference between them and the big names, but had a few of the e.g. Landsail/Accelera/WanLi types to know it's not worth going below a certain price point.
Currently have Kumho Ecstas on both our cars and they've managed to stay roof-side up and pointing in the right direction in all the weather Scotland can throw at us. They'll be fine on anything even remotely normal.
I've never been impressed by maxxis car tires.
Had a pair years back that cracked between the threads really early on. The current set on the mighty Berlingo with all it's 90bhp say they are all seasons...... They are crap. Fortunately they are wearing out fast. Be trashed in <12k it seems. Where as the vredestien quadtracs on the other car are going for 20k+ miles so far.
Maxxis car tyres are shoot compared to their bike tyres. Had 3 of four fail an MOT at 4 years old, with low miles. Side walls split.
would you use a halfords own tyre or a premium one on your bike?
I rate Continental's, I've had them on a Transit, Berlingo and a Cayenne.
They do seem to have that combination of grip and long wear. On the Berlingo I went from Conti's to Kumho and they are slightly less grippy in the wet - noticed it spinning up occasionally when 'booting' it out of junctions etc that it never did with the Conti's over 30k miles.
would you use a halfords own tyre or a premium one on your bike?
Again, read the OP
Ideally placed to answer as just come off >25k on kumho all seasons. As people say mid range established brand recommended by the guys at my local tyre shop that I trust. This is on a heavy high powered EV that gets driven enthusiastically when safe to do so.
Been V pleased with them. Would have gone again happily with them but an offer on cross climates came up and they are better for energy rating. This may mean a couple of times a month I can get home from longer work trips without needing that quick 10 min rapid charge (expensive!)
early days but looking like range is about 10-15% better.
so if that’s important and worth the extra then do that but the kumho mid range are decent too.
That's a bold claim. Any evidence?
Fill your boots: Tyre Reviews - YouTube
He is at a Goodyear facility (IIRC) and he rates them well, but he also rates other premium brands well and some mediums. I've no reason to suspect it's a conspiracy against cheap tyre manufacturers.
ADAC also do a load of tests, they are pretty thorough: 2025 ADAC Summer Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews And Ratings
Anecdotally, when we bought our Hyundai 18 months ago they put four new tyres on - I forget the brand but it was a budget brand I'd heard of i.e. not the worst knock-offs. I didn't notice much difference but my wife who was commuting in it complained they were sketchy, and she's a pretty conservative driver. So we changed them.
I've always spent a bit more on tyres, they don't cost loads over the life of the tyre and they're the only think sticking me to the road.
Very unscientific, but when I bought my current car (1.6l petrol estate, nothing silly) it had Triangle tyres on it and it just felt a bit sketchy. Swapped them to some Bridgstones after watching a few Tyre Reviews and the car is much better.
Another un-scientific opinion here, but we swapped the stock tyres on the Octavia for Continental AllSeasons and immediately noticed better fuel consumption numbers on long journeys and significantly better grip in icy conditions. They certainly feel more confidence-inspiring in the wet and when I've had to brake hard.
There are a ton of car tests out there - the NAV tests of winter tyres are pretty eye opening (but only available in Norsk). There are very big differences between tyres, and they tend to correlate with manufacturer fame and price.
same as Lunge. I got a second hand car with iLink tyres and I felt the grip in the wet was really poor . Changed to continentals and the car was much better
I'd say generally speaking a premium brand makes a better performing and safer tyre. There is always a rare exception to the rule but in general you get what you pay for.
The good tyres will stop a car in a shorter distance, have better aquaplane resistance, maintain good grip levels in the wet and have better handling characteristics, by that I don't necessarily mean sporty but a more consistent feel ie it won't feel fine one minute and then 1mph more and suddenly you have loads of understeer etc...
The good tyres will also consistently perform well across the full range of a test's criteria, while the cheaper tyres might only perform well in 3 out 9 criteria ie a cheep tyre may get similar scores to the premium in the dry tests but to terrible in the wet tests.
All these factors add up giving you more ability to either not get in sticky situation in the first place or more ability to get your self out of the sticky situation.
How much any of that matters to you and how much you are prepared to pay is a decision for you to make. But for me good tyres (premium brand or not) are very important. Tests regularly show that tyres make a huge difference to how a vehicle performs and is one of the single best investments you can make.
Now adding all season tyres to the mix is a whole new bunch of variables in the already complicated 3D chess worlds that are tyres (be they cars or bikes). All season tyres have to do everything well, perform in the dry conditions, warm conditions, wet conditions even handle snow ... it really is the master of all trades. Its the same as the which one bike for XC and Enduro, it needs to be lightweight but confident descending but still climb well etc ...
You're never going to get one magic tyre to do everything as well it's always going to be compromised. Read the reviews and pick the tyre that suits your needs the best.
eg the Michelin Cross-climate 2 is a popular choice but for my use its not the best choice. Yes it does very well in the snow for an all season tyre but it's not great in the wet and aquaplaning. I'd prefer a tyre that performs better in the wet as I'm much more likely to see those conditions and accept when it snows my tyres won't be as good. but chances are if its snowing heavily then I'm only doing "must do" journeys and opting to stay home if I can.
Tyres are always going to be a compromise in one set of conditions or another, while excelling in others
Drive sensibly, choose a mid-range brand and you'll be not too far off the mark; some of those belong to the bigger groups and benefit from their tech, e.g. Conti (Viking, Uniroyal-Europe), Bridgestone (Firestone and Nokian), Michelin (BF Goodridge and Kleber), Goodyear (Dunlop and Fulda), etc.
Fuller list here... https://toptirereview.com/who-owns-which-tire-brand-the-ultimate-guide/
Have a look at what's fitted as OEM to new cars too. The emergency services have an agreement with Goodyear, but I've also seen cars appear on fleet with Kumho, Pirelli and others
The word "premium" has become obsolete IMO. They may be more expensive but not necessarily better nor even better value.
I have x4 Kuhmo PS72 on the JCW hatch and they are better than the P Zeros or the Potenza Sport overall IME.
And the only reason they are (a little) cheaper is because of the brand perception rather than reality.
People often assimilate non-premium to Ling-Long Ditchfinders as if it was a binary choice.
Long may it continue.
People often assimilate non-premium to Ling-Long Ditchfinders as if it was a binary choice.
Indeed. Some replies above seem to have missed that within the OP's original question:
Are the Michelin/Goodyear/Continental offerings really worth 50% more than something like Kumho or Nankang?
I'm not entertaining generic ditch finders,
I think it's obvious that you need to read the OP.
On STW? 😆 What a ridiculous idea ahead of wading in with opinions based on a YT video I saw three years ago that I can barely remember the detail of.
Are the Michelin/Goodyear/Continental offerings really worth 50% more than something like Kumho or Nankang?
I'm not entertaining generic ditch finders, and of course yes, her safety is my priority, but are the M, G & C offerings safer?
The MGC(+pirelli) type brands tend to perform well across the board in all conditions (says various tyre tests). Tyres are the single biggest difference I (as a mug punter) can make to the daily driver - IMO. If safety is priority then surely the 50% is rather less relevant. Other opinions available. Your call etc.
I had Sunny SN3800s on a 300hp Celica GT4 a few years ago. They were comedically bad, leaving black lines on warm dry tarmac but somehow were still better in the wet than the Uniroyal Rainsports they replaced. Fortunately, they didn’t last long before I replaced them with Yokohamas.
I’ve got Yokes on the TurboHearse at the moment but will be fitting Nankangs next.
eg the Michelin Cross-climate 2 is a popular choice but for my use its not the best choice. Yes it does very well in the snow for an all season tyre but it's not great in the wet and aquaplaning.
As somone poised to buy Cross Climate 2s for my Enyaq on the basis of the internet's views, what should I be looking at instead? SW based so wet is a lot more prevalent than snow, and the summer Pirelli Scorpions it came with light up the traction control light whenever its damp.
When I was looking at buying some all season tyres I found this group test very helpful. All pretty empirical and quantitative. The stopping distance in the wet and the aquaplaning speed of the non premium brand is what really swung it for me - 10m further to stop from 100km/h and 15km/h lower speed to start aquaplaning.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre-Tests/2024-Sports-Car-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
eg the Michelin Cross-climate 2 is a popular choice but for my use its not the best choice. Yes it does very well in the snow for an all season tyre but it's not great in the wet and aquaplaning.
As somone poised to buy Cross Climate 2s for my Enyaq on the basis of the internet's views, what should I be looking at instead? SW based so wet is a lot more prevalent than snow, and the summer Pirelli Scorpions it came with light up the traction control light whenever its damp.
I think the latest Cross Climates are improved with a slight bias back towards wet-dry performance rather than outright snow bias....
I've always taken the view that I might save £150-200 by going for a set of budget tyres over premium ones. Obviously, there is a difference in wear rate between front & rear, but on average would get 2-3 years out of a set of tyres, so a couple of quid a week difference. I'd say its worth it for the premium ones.
Interesting seeing peoples thoughts on this.
I do not believe that the different tyre brands benefit from shared knowledge in the same group. i would expect them to be developed in silo'd departments with the appropriate budgets as is the case for many things.
I have had the pleasure of owning some cars that are very tyre specific. Having just a different brand would mean it swapping ends with amazing ease. Ive also had premium brands that were nothing sort of shocking for road use. As somone above it all depends on what your doing. You probably wouldn't use an xc tyre for a DH race etc....
i do think that you are more likely to get a better performing tyre with a bigger brand. The bigger the company the bigger the budget for R&D (and marketing that we are sucked in by) the more likely to get an improved product.
I wonder what the "good cars" ive had in the past would be like on modern day rubber?
Many car manufacturers are now fitting Hankook, Falken etc to their new cars a the factory.
The top of the range Audi/BMW etc might have Pirelli or Conti super-dooper rubber but most cars (i.e. the ones we all drive every day) don't need £300 tyres to go to the shops in the drizzle or zoom down the A1M to see Aunt Margaret.
Another issue is load rating - a lot of people think this is only for vans but large SUVs and electric cars are very heavy so they need load rated tyres.
munrobiker's review link shows there's not much between the top 4 all-season tyres but the differences would only become apparent when in extremis. If Ms OTS is a raggedy edge driver then she'll need the best tyres you can afford, if at the Driving Miss Daisy spectrum then anything bar the ditchfinders would do.
Thanks all, some thinking to do.
If Ms OTS is a raggedy edge driver then she'll need the best tyres you can afford, if at the Driving Miss Daisy spectrum then anything bar the ditchfinders would do.
She is at the driving miss daisy end, thankfully.
I suspect I'm going to go for kunho/nankang rather than the M,C,P,G end of things for her mini.
My Polestar is also due to arrive tomorrow, and I'll be putting all seasons on that as well - slightly different proposition being a heavier EV. Decisions, decisions.
The top of the range Audi/BMW etc might have Pirelli or Conti super-dooper rubber but most cars (i.e. the ones we all drive every day) don't need £300 tyres to go to the shops in the drizzle or zoom down the A1M to see Aunt Margaret.
Yep true, but although I do generally Grandad around and get absolutely nowhere near the limits of my Michelins, nor presumably a ditch-finder, I do like the feeling that should I want to stop very quickly, come across a freak road condition etc etc I've given myself the best chance.
i do think that you are more likely to get a better performing tyre with a bigger brand. The bigger the company the bigger the budget for R&D (and marketing that we are sucked in by) the more likely to get an improved product.
Same here - various relatives of mine have or do work for Unilever in research - different market of course, but I do generally buy their products because I know for a fact the lengths they go to with their research to improve the products. (Although, yes, I know it's ultimately market-driven and not perfect all the same.)
We had a very crap set put on the run about from Kwik fit (needed in a rush).
They were absolutely fine at first, but seemed to ‘go off’ really quickly and became awful in the wet.
Swapped them to Falken at a local independent fitters for the roughly the same price.
I take the view that between the upper mid and top end tyres it is very much a case of diminishing returns. But then those patches of rubber are the only things connecting me to the road, I can afford to pay a bit more so currently am running pilot sport 4's on the back and ps 5's on the front of my mazda 3.
Even if they give me a couple of % extra when I really need them it is worth it.
a set of budget tyres over premium ones.
It's not binary. A full spectrum between the cheapest and the most expensive and the price isn't always correlated to performance.
If Ms OTS is a raggedy edge driver then she'll need the best tyres you can afford, if at the Driving Miss Daisy spectrum then anything bar the ditchfinders would do.
I disagree with this. When you do an emergency stop from 70mph, it doesn't make a difference.
If it were me I'd go to ATS and get 4 Goodyear Vector gen 3- a quality allseason that copes really impressively well with snow and ice, works great in the cold and wet which is imo where tyre performance is most important (because of all dodgy conditions, cold and wet is the one you're most likely to be in, the one you're going to pay less attention in, the one you'll be going faster in and you're more likely to be tired in), pretty good but not amazing in the dry but who cares, and just a wee bit fuel inefficient and noisy compared to a summer tyre.
It's a good tyre and for my 225/45/17 it's £360 for 4 which is not cheap but not expensive. It's passed the "drive on ice without much fuss but then you get out of the car and fall on your arse" test and the "come round a corner and oh **** it's all snow" test superbly for me and does really nothing bad.
Long version...
Main thing for me is that a customer it's just incredibly difficult to really know. Quality brands are an easy guide, even if not necessarily a perfect answer but it makes it much easier, we can instantly hack away probably 2/3ds of all possible choices and even if we lose some good options with them that's still useful. Just like being a maxxis guy or whatever for bikes, every manufacturer has good options but nobody's going to try them all or comprehend all the options. Nobody's going to look up a review for every possible option and even if you did most reviews are bollocks anyway and even good ones may be of limited relevance to you. I have at a guess about 10 brands I'll consider and it's not an informed decision really, it's just a very useful axe to lop off indecision with. I need a good reason to step outside of that 10.
And of course "good" isn't a sliding scale either. What's better, a PS4 or a Kumho Ecsta? It's the PS4, it's better... except why? well the PS4 lasts longer. OK but it's more expensive and you might not even get all the miles out of it, you might puncture or just life expire them. Well sure but the PS4 is grippier too! Yep but you have to drive like a maniac for it to matter. And they both aren't very good in the cold and wet, and suck entirely in the snow. In the end for most people they're going to perform pretty equivalently and the differences might never arise (oh and they both suck on track so it's not like that extra grippiness is ever super useful even at the pointy end. In the end the extra performance is for crime.
Average tyres got really bloody good, a 6/10 low test performer today is probably still a very good tyre. Even right down pretty low, competence is expected. And that 6/10 performer could easily work better for you than a 9/10 test leader, if it's more fit to your purpose. Is your car fast, slow, heavy, do you do dirt roads, snow, lots of night or wet or winter miles, etc etc. Are your tyres a ridiculous size, because on modern cars they very often are.
HOWEVER, modern tyre demands aren't all positive. Everyone wants low noise, good economy, long life, and good grip and that's led just about everyone outside of allseasons to the "slicks in a row" engineering, they all look like this:
And slicks in a row works great until you add snow or mud and then it is disastrously awful. Today's best tyres are worse at that than an adequate tyre 20 years ago, even when new, but the limited crosstread wears out in the first 25% of the tyre's life. You can absolutely go and buy a 10/10, super high quality tyre and then still land in a ditch just exactly the same as on a set of actual ditchfinders.
And even if you could really know what the perfect tyre is, is it even in stock? Is it in one of the eternal churn of discount deals that are pertty much designed to make real pricing incomprehensible?
The Michelins have a VERY soft sidewall and puncture easily too...
They do when it’s a sheetmetal screw that’s gone through the edge of the tread - something that was only picked up during an MOT check. They’d been on the car for a while and were close to legal tread minimum. I’ve still got the other pair of CrossClimates on the rear, swapped from the front, and I’ve now got Continental cross climate equivalents on the front, ultimately they’ll go on the back one the Michelins get too low and be replaced with Continentals. They’re a bit cheaper, and get very good reviews. I can’t really tell the difference, I’m not driving a performance car, just a medium sized Ford crossover with a 1.0 litre engine.