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Mines not had a service in 2 years, probs done 12k in that time. Local garage charges £150+vat, I have had it in mind to do it myself, but I know nothing...is it more than an oil and air filter change + £50 per hour labour?
I don't have any ramps etc but I'm hoping after a bit of youtubing I can sort the oil and air filter myself, the car is a 2010 Fabia estate HTP, it's the most basic thing I could find, basic and less to go wrong was at the top of the priority list when buying.
Tyres have just been replaced and it's had a new mid-exhaust so I'm not leaving it to totally rot.
Servicing my own car at least once will also add Dad points in 16yrs time when my lads start driving and I'll be able to say 'back in my day I'd service all my own cars' when in fact I did it once and it took a whole Saturday to change the oil, with the oil stain still there 16yrs later as evidence...
If the £150 +VAT includes oil and filters I'd let the garage do it!
Have you seen how much decent oil is now! 🙂
And then there's the car devaluation due to several years of no service history. Not an issue of course if you plan on running it into the ground.
£50 for oil and filter + £10 for an air filter + £20 cheap axle stands + £10 oil filter wrench + £10 for a spanner for the sump plug if you don't have one. Plus you might want to chnage the plugs so add in another £20-25 and a plug wrench if you don't have one.
Me, I'd just get someone to do it but then I'm a lazy bugger.
A basic service is pretty easy. As well as oil and oil filter, I'd normally clean (or change if necessary) the air filter and spark plugs. If you want to be thorough your vehicle handbook will list all the other things which need doing and when, in great detail - down to greasing hinges and bonnet release catches etc. The main one not to skip is any belt or timing chain changes - but this is less likely to be a DIY job if you're not confident and experienced. Likewise brakes - pads, disks and fluid.
I used to do my own serviceing but cars have changed since those days. The biggest issues for me were all about access, modern stuff appears to be desgned to only be accessed from below and then they put a big plastic undertray in place to cover it all up. Suddenly an easy job like oil and filter change become nigh on impossible without getting the car up on a ramp to remove the tray and access the filter etc.
The Fabia may be different but I'd suggest trying to access the sump plug and the filter before committing any money to a DIY service. If you can get to everything then great, if not then £150 makes it a job for someone with a ramp.
is it more than an oil and air filter change + £50 per hour labour?
No plans you use your brakes for anything soon?
. Not an issue of course if you plan on running it into the ground.
Depends on how quickly you plan to run it into the ground 🙂
12k in 2yrs....
wife's car done just over 2k since last service. we were £260 for minor service, 2 track rod ends and MOT.
For £180 I'd get them to do, spend more time chasing around getting bit and applying plasters to scraped knuckles
And then there’s the car devaluation due to several years of no service history. Not an issue of course if you plan on running it into the ground.
On a 12 year old car that hasn't been serviced for two years? I think that ship has sailed 😀
If it's going to be a one off then I wouldn't bother, send it into the garage. If you're going to continue home servicing from this point on then pick up a Haynes manual or similar and crack on. If you haven't already got a good selection of tools then expect it to cost as much as paying the garage first time round.
A decent service should include oil, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter, pollen filter, spark plugs if it's a petrol engine. Also a good look over the running gear, wheels off and grease the brake calliper slide pins, check the state of discs and pads etc.
Brakes are not a service item
They are a maintainance item.
A 150+vat service is the bargain basement bottom of the market these day. You’ll be lucky if they even have time to look before they upsell you new brakes.
Got fed up of garages (several) cutting corners - so learned to do it my self
Don’t need to pay someone to **** it up. I can do that my self.
Flicker gets it.
Although that said many petrol cars are self cleaning filter for life in the tank….. which I’m not ok with but my hand is forced.
Thanks, having never done it before I was unsure of the costs but at £180 all in it does sound 50/50 if I'd save myself anything or not.
It's a 12 year old car and I'm planning to keep it for at least another couple of years as it's main job is taking all the excess house reno stuff to the skip so I'm not super be precious about recouping costs end if days, but point taken in running it into the ground later than sooner!
Check what the small and large services actually entail according to the manufacturer- and I bet a brake check is part of the list along with checking various other parts.
A service should be far more than just oil and filters. Valve clearance? Transmission oils? clutch adjustment? etc etc
After two years untouched ALL fluids should be changed inc brake fluids for example
Bear in mind that the cost of the tools can be greatly reduced by doing it more than once. And not actually needing something like an oil filter wrench. Granted, the newest car I've worked on is a 2008, but on a basic oil/filter/plug change I don't think I've ever needed anything more than a socket for the sump plug, a spark plug socket, and maybe a 10mm or Phillips for some trim screws. Which a lot of people will have most of anyways. So chances are all your really need to buy are axle stands at 25 quid ish
Pure guess at what you need, but Halfords oil is fine. That's about 25 quid for 5l of semi synth, and filter will be at most a tenner
So about 60 quid. And 25 of that you can use again.
Thanks, having never done it before I was unsure of the costs but at £180 all in it does sound 50/50 if I’d save myself anything or not.
Buying a few tools is a long term investment. First time round you might save nothing if starting from scratch. Do get some axle stands - you don't want to be underneath a car supported only by a jack.
It can take a little while to figure it all out too, working out where the jacking points are, how to get to the filter - they can be awkward on some cars. And it can get messy. Need to dispose of the oil too.
Easy 30 min job once you know what you're doing.
I thought I would have a look at Skoda to see what they recommend
https://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/servicing-maintenance-fixed-price
£185 from Skoda for the basic service
NO mention of valve clearances - all hydraulic valve lifters?
No mention of brake fluid change
Weird
Oil and filters can be done with minimal tools. Just take your time. With two of our cars it takes longer to take off the underpan than to drain and refill the oil. I'll do most jobs other than suspension as it's heavy, and has been there 20 years on my car. Pads and discs are relatively straight forward.
Decent jack and axel stands essential. My son made a couple of ramps out of timber - we use these for oil changes - just drive the car up. Worked out quite cheap by gluing and screwing some decent pieces of timber together.
My son's into modifying, so has somehow picked it all up off the internet, as well as being mechanically minded. He's changed two engines, and will need a new gearbox shortly after it gave up after a track day recently.
You don't touch valve clearances on modern cars - never done it. Transmission is usually sealed for life (21 years on my car and 150k)
You don’t touch valve clearances on modern cars – never done it.
Recommended every 25k miles on my car (2007 Type R). 😜
A service should be far more than just oil and filters. Valve clearance? Transmission oils? clutch adjustment? etc etc
After two years untouched ALL fluids should be changed inc brake fluids for example
You looked at a calendar recently? It's not 1989 anymore... 😉
Pads and discs are relatively straight forward.
Can be. I've spent entire weekends doing these jobs when seized nuts/screws have rounded off and I've not had the right tools. It's a decent step up from an oil change.
Top tip put whatever you're using to catch the sump oil as close to the drain as possible. This stops the last few drops being blown all over the driveway under the car.
Whatever day you choose to do this will be the coldest one for months and you will bleed from your knuckles!!
After two years untouched ALL fluids should be changed inc brake fluids for example
Does anybody actually include these in a service these days? Genuine question - anytime I've looked at a car with supposed FSH it's only ever had oil and filters.
Have you seen how much decent oil is now!
Yeah, mine charges me less for Helix than I'd be able to get it for myself.
Realistically, you've never done it before so I'd say you've really no inclination to do it. You don't know what you're doing and you probably don't have all the tools you may need. It's December and looking like a cold weekend coming up. I see nothing in your future but looking wistfully back on a £150+VAT quote from a handy local garage as you lie on your back on freezing concrete and it's an hour past sunset.
Or it may go swimmingly and you have a great time picking up a useful and money saving life skill, I dunno really.
I used to do mine using an oil vacuum. Makes the job a lot less bother especially in the cold months.
Depends on the engine how effective it is, on my octavia it left only a thimble-full in the sump and the filter was easy to get to.
A service should be far more than just oil and filters. Valve clearance? Transmission oils? clutch adjustment? etc etc
When did you last touch a car 1972 ?
You don’t touch valve clearances on modern cars – never done it
Conversely I have to solve a slow start issue on a diesel. Lifter buckets needed shimmed to the cam to recalibrate the valvetrain as it had aged.....
So many people garages included just change the glow plugs and wonder why it's still shit to start....
Not a fun job as the timing belt had to come off and the cam shaft had to come out.
100% not a service job. More a- car has x problem - what would cause that..... Lack of compression.
Buy a Haynes manual, it's all in there.
Oil and filter is the fundamental thing that needs changing but there are plenty of other things that may need replacing depending on how long they've been there
- Spark plugs
- Cambelt/pulleys
- Coolant
- Air filter
- Fuel filter
- Auxilliary belt
- Water pump
- Trans fluid maybe
- Brake fluid
They will want changing at different intervals, or not at all depending on the car or the service schedule.
After two years untouched ALL fluids should be changed inc brake fluids for example
VW coolant is fit for life. Brake fluid isn't, but you can pay to have that done separately at places like a Halfords Autocentre. It's much easier for a garage to do it with a machine than you to fanny about pumping and bleeding.
A basic service will almost certainly only cover oil and filter, some garages might check other bits out of courtesy but some won't. You should be able to get the oil and filter for under £50.
I do most servicing myself, oil changes, filters and brakes are all pretty easy. Just remember that the first time you do it it will take longer than you think but will be much easier the following times.
I have a MK3 Fabia estate, the only annoyance is that there is an undertray that makes oil filter removal a bit tight but your version might be different.
No mention of brake fluid change
Weird
Skoda is first brake fluid change at 3 years. Every 2 years thereafter. Spark plugs at 40k miles. cambelt 5 years or 50k miles.
Its a DIY job and very easy. In addition to the advice above you will need to buy a plastic oil drain tray and a couple of empty oil containers. Also good to have a towel just in case. Recycle the oil at a local tip.
Maybe you have a heated well lit garage. I don't. So yes, a basic service is pretty easy on an older car. But I'll only do it myself in the summer. Also, like all car jobs, things look easy on paper but can turn into a nightmare in the wild.
Can be. I’ve spent entire weekends doing these jobs when seized nuts/screws have rounded off and I’ve not had the right tools. It’s a decent step up from an oil change.
Ah yes.
I'll just change the pads, oh, caliper is buggered.
I'll just change the caliper, oh flexi is seized.
I'll just undo it at the solid line, oh, the solid line sheared.
That was a fun day. Lots of new and exciting tools.
Just do the oil on my 1ltr tsi fabia. I think the intervals are too long so do an extra change. It did lots of short journeys, doubt I will benefit from it but hopefully next owner does.
Dead easy, I have some levelling ramps for the our camper which are great for car jobs.
I thought I would have a look at Skoda to see what they recommend
https://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/servicing-maintenance-fixed-price
£185 from Skoda for the basic service
NO mention of valve clearances – all hydraulic valve lifters?
No mention of brake fluid change
Weird
I have the same car but a 2013 and service it myself.
Sump plug is a 6mm hex.
Oil filter is a plastic canister up top, needs a large socket to undo it.
Air filter is just a screwdriver and some clips.
Best bang-for-buck oil is Carplan R-Tec 16, filters wherever is cheapest but avoid any by Crossland as they're crap and can break up before the next service.
Plugs are every 60k.
Timing chain is lifetime.
Service interval is every 10k, the major service just adds a few extra checks.
Brake fluid is every 2 years regardless of anything else.
Valves are hydraulic and set for life.
I'd do the cabin filter too as I can guarantee it's never been done, not included in a dealer service.
Mine takes about 25 mins to do and cost is around £60, the oil is expensive! Easy to do if you're not rushed or are familiar with oily stuff.
One great benefit of doing it yourself is that you gain an understanding of the car, so that when it makes an odd noise, you can identify the problem. You can also makes sure it's done properly; after searching for a reputable garage, I paid them to change the clutch plate and timing belt (the timing belt is a 13 hour job for a skilled mechanic and requires £500+ of special tools). They thought it would take 2 days, it took 4.5 days, but then they forgot to put the oil filler cap back on so there was oil all over then engine when I got home. Then 3 weeks later, checking it for the MoT, the suspension ball joint was split in two places, just exactly where careless use of a forked splitter would tear it - nobody else had taken that joint apart in the previous 5 years, but I couldn't prove it. I replaced the suspension arm and ball joint myself, I wouldn't take it back to them.
I use to use one of those oil drain containers. Capacity was a bit tight so it would be brim full, the drainer was too shallow and would overflow if the car had a big drain plug, and it had to be dead level to drain. And then to top it off, you have an oil container thats got one side covered in oil!
The game changer was getting a 25L container and cutting a square hole in the side. Suddenly all of the above is just a painful memory, and if you leave a nice big lip around the hole, you can still take the cap off and decant it into old oil bottles. The only downside is you might need to lift the car higher to fit it under the sump 🙂
Other service items I've not seen mentioned, handbrake adjustment, fuel filter, pollen filter. However as mentioned, unless you are getting main dealer servicing, I don't think a standard service will ever go further than oil and filter.
However as mentioned, unless you are getting main dealer servicing,
Neither robins and day nor Bristol Street motors see the pollen filter as a service item in a stamped service - 4 years it's been serviced and the filter was clarted and dated with the bulld of the car....
Like wise my parents range rover evoke......it had been serviced by town and county all it's days.... Was getting sluggish....for a 200bhp car. Fuel filter had never been changed. I changed it and it was a totally different car.....-notoriously difficult to bleed this design after a filter change.....
The only service you get from a dealer than you can't get else where is goodwill when it goes to shit.
I service and maintain all my own cars.
From oil + filter, autobox fluid + filter, swapping turbos, timing belts etc Clutch on my 911 etc.
Never had an impact on resale value. I take photos and include all receipts. I've saved tens of thousands.
All the info is out there for every car on youtube and forums.
Get cracking, the hardest bit is getting them up in the air.
All this "its too hard on modern cars" is BS. It is way easier these days, things are designed to be dismantled, fasteners and plugs only fit one socket, plug it into computer and it tells you whats wrong itself.
Never had an impact on resale value. I take photos and include all receipts. I’ve saved tens of thousands.
I do this too....and it's always gone down better than a stamp.....but I don't sell to dealers.
I'd trust receipts and photos over a stamp any day of the week !
I DIY our own cars;
200k mile Volvo V70
215k mile Volvo XC90
90k mile Peugeot Partner
Get yourself a Pela oil suction pump. I've used one for years and they work well (I've removed the sump and checked).
Mannol oil from Ebay (decent German oil at good prices)
Filters by Mann&Hummel/Mann - German OEM.
Set of ramps (if needed) and a filter housing wrench. Some engines have the filter on the upper area of the engine so you don't need ramps (VW PD, Volvo D5).
Oil is the most important, after that air filter (easy) plugs and fuel filter for a petrol.
I've saved tens of thousands over the years and have a 200k mile car that regularly does the UK to Perpignan trip without any worries of it letting us down.
I service our 2002 berlingo and 2012 smax.
Both take about 20 mins to oil and air including removing under trays etc.
I don't plan on selling either so not bother about stamps.
I'll do brakes, fuel filters, glow plugs, exhausts etc.
Cambelts/clutches etc can be done by the garage.
Had my focus st serviced last year and it cost £700 including rear discs. Felt that burn.
Thing is, I enjoy doing it. It's a good skill to have.
Pads and discs are relatively straight forward.
Can be. I’ve spent entire weekends doing these jobs when seized nuts/screws have rounded off and I’ve not had the right tools. It’s a decent step up from an oil change.
The second statement is true, but also with the advent of electric handbrakes rear pads can be trickier than those of old. Not always a simple windback job at the calliper now. I’m doing mine Sunday and you’ve got to tell the car to wind the motor out then when the new pads are in tell ut to windout and relearn the pad position.
That said, I service my car and the wifes car, neither are what you’d call old fashioned (2016 & 2017) but that just means both need a dose of research before embarking on new tasks. There’s always someone that’s done a task and points out the pitfalls via YouTube.
As an avid DIY car servicer : what I will add to all the above is that a paid service is WAY more than just an oil and filter job. Even the cheapest one. Well it should be at least. When the car is jacked up they should do obvious safety checks like tyres, brake issues, suspension, hose issues etc. Should is the key word though. My local garage is great at this.
In summary : at the very least you are paying someone who knows what they are doing to look at the underneath of your car to spot obvious issues. It is their interest to report issues to you: the fixes cost extra and that's how they make a living. If you can spot obvious issues yourself at home then its a money saver.
If you have a Mercedes, the service won't get logged on the electronic system if you don't have a garage do it.
I used to DIY but not anymore. It's pretty satisfying but also can be very time consuming and I just don't have the time for it anymore. Definitely have a crack at it if seems like something you'd like to do.
As others have said there are tools you need so the first time can be really expensive.
- There are lots of videos online. Some of them are Good, some not. I had a Haynes manual for the car and always tried to follow the proper way of doing something vs the you tube bodge.
- Not all parts are equal. Ebay is awash with fake stuff. Stick to reputable suppliers.
- Allow loads of time. You are always only one stripped thread away from an absolute nightmare
I had a Haynes manual for the car and always tried to follow the proper way of doing something vs the you tube bodge.
Equally I've had Haynes tell me my entire head lining needed to be removed to replace my aerial. Meanwhile, the "bodge" showed me that I just needed to pop out the cabin light and the nut was behind it!
YouTube has been 90% helpful for me if not more. Depending on how new your car is Haynes is mostly useless except for the very basics. Oh and god forbid you have some variant that wasn't available at pre-launch as it'll never be updated.
Equally I’ve had Haynes tell me my entire head lining needed to be removed to replace my aerial. Meanwhile, the “bodge” showed me that I just needed to pop out the cabin light and the nut was behind it!
More to do with the fact that Haynes have (or rather had to) follow the manufacturers instructions. Never going to look good in court if something went wrong and Haynes had shown an alternative method, not approved by the VM. Depending on on who wrote the Haynes manual there can be hints in the text 😉.
If you have a Mercedes, the service won’t get logged on the electronic system if you don’t have a garage do it.
Meh. That's not worth the premium unless it's a lease stipulation that's for sure.
Haynes manuals are certainly not what they used to be. They used to include lots of practical 'unofficial' advice. I've found that the current ones can be quite poorly written, and when a new edition is brought out to cover a (for example) Mk3 version of the car, you can find text for the Mk3 but the old Mk2 photos, or vice versa. Youtube is good, but watch several different videos to get the best advice. If there's nothing on Youtube for the job, give to a garage, as the lack of videos means it's too hard for DiY.
Skoda, assuming it's the same as my Octavia, will day first brake fluid change at 3, then every 2 years. Don't bother taking to a VAG group garage. If you search the last thread similar to this you'll find a photo of a bottle of black liquid that was the brake fluid I changed myself 2 years later.... The Wimbledon Audi garage didn't bother with them rear brake and I fell lucky I changed it myself the next time and before the calipers rusted.
If you stick better brake fluid in, Bosch env6, you can go an extra year before the next change....imv worth the few extra quid for the fluid.
Always serviced my own cars on the driveway including more involved jobs like shockers, timing belts, diagnostics etc.
Home servicing is only worth it if a) you can't afford a professional mechanic or b) you derive pleasure or satisfaction from doing it. In the case of the former you still need to buy tools to do the job safely. So to really save money you'll need to commit to using those tools multiple times.
I use Smith and Allan for oil, modern specs available at bargain prices, Autodoc for general parts, a bit of brand specific research normally turns up a source of genuine OEM parts.
Meh. That’s not worth the premium unless it’s a lease stipulation that’s for sure.
People are likely to ask to see it when you sell the car. Certainly I wouldn't want to see gaps in it unless they can be accounted for. It sucks - you should be able to add them yourself.
People are likely to ask to see it when you sell the car. Certainly I wouldn’t want to see gaps in it unless they can be accounted for
Not if you have an actual service history. Stamps are lazy and more so I'd want to see receipts for any stamps before I put any real value in them especially on an older car. Even electronic stamps - too easy forged. Been burnt once before.
Great for keeping the dealers margins up on the forecourt though- and for that your selling dealer thanks you.
Stamps are lazy...
I've experienced this, went to a main dealer to get a warranty job done and they'd stamped the service book up for a full service. It's been in the workshops, it must have been serviced...reflex action
There are three levels of service IME:
Main dealer, might get additional goodwill
Professional garage, not main dealer, maintains warranty obligations
Evidenced non-pro service, no warranty but fine on resale
The Smith & Allan and Bosch brake fluid tips are part of the reason I keep coming here. Thanks @Waderider and @neilnevill
Don't just blindly follow what people on the internet say. Oil should match both the viscosity e.g. 5w30 and the spec e.g. acea A3/b3 as found in the owners manual I doubt a garage will go into that detail. Don't follow arbitrary guesses of service intervals for everything else either, the book will list what needs doing and when. Ideally you would do everything currently due, and everything that was inevitably missed in past history. In reality oil is most important for longevity and brake fluid really should be done when required for safety. The number of cars on the road with no service history kind of prove that some models will just keep going nowadays though.
Edit: that applies for both doing it yourself and garage doing it. If you want to be cheap you could just pull onto a high kerb then all you need is something to undo the sump plug and any undertray fasteners. Someone with small arms to reach into the oil filter can be helpful too!
As for stamps, I just list what I've done where the stamp should go. I think that's far more insightful than a stamp with no info
A decent service should include oil, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter, pollen filter, spark plugs if it’s a petrol engine.
Spark plugs are usually 3-4 years at least, even air filters are often 2-3 years now, I guess because they've become massive. Most annual services are really just oil, filter and, then 'inspect' a 100+ minor things so they can say they've done a 100 point inspection in their advert.
Most jobs you can budget about as much in tools the 1st time as the basic cost at the garage. And it's worth it, whilst you can change a filter by hammering a screwdriver through it, a propper filter wrench (or a selection of, because the various belts, chained and cammed designs all work better with different access) will make the job much easier.
On oil, try the local main dealer with a parts/service department. The local ford one sells miller's oil for the ford spec in 25l drums for a fraction of the motorcraft stuff (and cheaper than anything at Halfords either).
The rest, if you can check the wheel bearings and brake pads on your mountain bike, you can check them on a car, they're just bigger. 90% of the time changing them is actually easier! Brake fluid changes are a doodle with a Gunson easy bleeder. And if you can i.d. the fault then even bigger maintenance tasks are a doodle, E.g. wheel bearings generally come as a whole hub these days, so you just pull the old one off and put the new one on!
My 2p:
I've done a lot of DIY servicing over the years, largely out of necessity (poverty).
1) A DIY oil change is a shitty, horrible job leaving with you with a panful of nasty sludge that you really shouldn't just be tipping down the nearest drain. For the minimal cost saving against paying a professional to do it, it's not worth it IMHO.
2) Modern cars are not like a mk2 Escort. 20-odd years ago you could fix most problems with a flatblade screwdriver or a hammer, today you lift a bonnet and you're greeted with a slab of plastic that says "go away." My tame mechanic took early retirement a few years back because every time a new car came in for work he'd have to buy some specialist tool or other which cost hundreds and was unlikely to be used again. If a professional mechanic of many years is hanging up his hat because it's all getting too complicated, that tells me all I need to know about my own abilities.
that tells me all I need to know about my own abilities.
1) A DIY oil change is a shitty, horrible job
Id say seems you assume right. Because it's not a horrible shitty job at all. It's about as easy as it gets
And regardless of the sludge or not ... Oil of no kind should be put down a drain.
The good thing is... When you change the oil....they give you this handy empty container - you can put waste oil in and take to the tip where it can be disposed of....
The other thing with modern DIY servicing is that the factory level diagnostics have been cloned/reverse engineered. I have Volvo VIDA/DICE for my two Volvo's and it is brilliant for diagnostic and adjusting things. It also has all the factory workshop manuals and torque values (it was a 30gb download!).
Nowadays it is part of my buying decision of a used car whether or not hacked/grey market/cloned diagnostics were available for it or not.
For the oil change, one of the extraction pumps is a great buy. No need to get the car up on ramps. Run the engine until the oil is warm then extraction hose down the dipstick tube, connect it to the car battery and it'll suck the old oil out. Do a bit of twisting and pulling on the extraction hose as it gets to the end and starts sucking air and you should get the last dregs out. The volumes I've extracted have correlated with the fill volume in the handbook so I'm happy
My tame mechanic took early retirement a few years back because every time a new car came in for work he’d have to buy some specialist tool or other which cost hundreds and was unlikely to be used again
Tool needs haven't really changed that much. What has changed is the amount of sensors and warning errors they throw up. Generic OBD readers will pick up the warning codes at least.
I grew up helping my dad service our cars and our friends. I do the same now and it's still the same stuff I was doing 30 years ago with him. Only extra stuff is plugging a laptop or Bluetooth reader into the OBD port if it's a weird problem
Don’t follow arbitrary guesses of service intervals for everything else either, the book will list what needs doing and when
Don't believe that either. My handbook says change oil as indicated by the car's onboard service warning, and that tells me i've 23k miles between services.
A 20k+ service interval may make a car attractive to a fleet buyer but it's not a good idea if you're interested in the car past its 3rd birthday.
A 20k+ service interval may make a car attractive to a fleet buyer but it’s not a good idea if you’re interested in the car past its 3rd birthday.
Old school DIYers often say this, but I'd trust the manufacturers more than 60s knowledge handed down. Technology improves.
today you lift a bonnet and you’re greeted with a slab of plastic that says “go away.”
That comes off you know. What's under it is far more scary - not because it's complex really but there's a lot packed in there and it's not easy to get at.
If a professional mechanic of many years is hanging up his hat because it’s all getting too complicated, that tells me all I need to know about my own abilities.
Meh, it's not that bad. For a DIYer copies of most special tools are available on eBay for very sensible prices. As long as you have the appropriate software to do stuff like wind in the rear brake pads or measure the transmission oil temps before changing it you're ok. In the VAG world there's VCDS which is a dongle and software - it cost me £250, but it paid for itself many times over. A professional mechanic needs to spend a lot more, of course, but then it's just part of the business these days.
A modern car is complex but I don't think diagnosis is any harder than it used to be - just different. It does require re-learning a lot of things but it's not like it's a new phenomenon. Cars have been slowly electronifying for 30 years. There is more to know, for sure, but that's true of the modern world in general.
Old school DIYers often say this, but I’d trust the manufacturers more than 60s knowledge handed down. Technology improves.
Profits improve. Marketing got smart to fleet metrics. One less service over 1000 cars over 3 years is massive money.
And it's hardly knowledge from the 60s or we would be doing oil every 1500-2k.
But the new school diy'er still understands that the oil they remove after 10k of modern driving with E10 fuel is brutal stuff on the internals of engines. Even more so with wet belts and the like.
But the new school diy’er still understands that the oil they remove after 10k of modern driving with E10 fuel is brutal stuff on the internals of engines.
How?
My last car had variable service intervals, so it monitored the driving patterns and would ping you when it was due. The worst I had was 8k miles, the best about 17k.
We've long known that cold stop-start driving in short trips is worse for your oil than long motorway cruises, so why put a blanket figure on it? Variable oil changes are simply a practical implementation of that knowledge.
as found in the owners manual
Mmm. Yeah. Unless of course the manufacturer changes the spec, sometimes because it's very much the wrong spec.
5k oil changes here! Our V70 engine that we've put 150k of its 200k miles on is clean as a whistle internally.
Haynes is mostly useless except for the very basics
Used to be excellent now much much more limited in details. Given up on them.:(
Generic OBD readers will pick up the warning codes at least.
Really need is odb standard update. The generic code and requirements were put in so long ago that the level of detailed information available form the odb port has sky rocket. when it was mandated that those code were available it might have been 50% of the functionality available at the port now it's 5%.
I’d trust the manufacturers more than 60s knowledge handed down
The manufacturers want to sell cars. If they schedule more servicing the fleets won't buy them. If they die after the warranty period the manufacturer are happy to sell new ones. Cam belt change mileages are infamous for 'optimism'. Maybe I'm a bit influenced by owning a Ford Ecoboost but I don't trust manufacturers any more than I do main dealers.
I don't think service history is worth the cost of main dealer or even independent servicing unless you are going to trade in something less than three years old or it's particularly special/expensive. You might get a little bit more cash for ten years of impeccable service history but nothing like the money it cost to get it.
We generally buy 3 year old cars and sell them when they are pretty tired and the buyers I've had really couldn't give a monkeys about the pile of receipts I had and the service book rarely gets looked at...they are more bothered that it actually drives with no faults.
I did sell a newer Mondeo and the buyer was more bothered if I could throw in a set of mats (err, hello, does my house look like a forecourt!) and didn't even notice that the first service wasn't stamped (it was an ex demonstrator for a main dealer so it was either missed or the sales person driving it couldn't be bothered to walk across the office to get it stamped!)
That comes off you know. What’s under it is far more scary – not because it’s complex really but there’s a lot packed in there and it’s not easy to get at.
This is the big difference in modern cars ime. At one time you would open the bonnet and see a big hole with a little engine in the middle. Now you have to remove multiple components to gain access to most things, and hope you don't lose a nut somewhere down there or you might spend an entire weekend trying to retrieve it. I'm thankful BMW opted to make the oil filter easily serviceable, with a screw cap at the top of the engine bay. It can be replaced within 30 seconds: Unlike many others that require you to access from underneath, with very little space to move and inevitably ends with a face full of oil.
The manufacturers want to sell cars.
Yes, and they know we won't buy them if they gain a reputation for unreliability. Those fleet managers need to sell their cars on, and if they are not deemed good value as second hand purchases they won't hold their value and the fleet managers won't get good deals.
I'd like to see the evidence that a 20k oil change interval, when used on long trips (because that's when the car should offer you that) is actually bad for the engine. For all the things wrong with my Passat the engine was fine at 160k despite the long intervals. But I never had the oil analysed.
I need more evidence than someone on the internet saying 'it's too long' because it feels like a long time.
I’m thankful BMW opted to make the oil filter easily serviceable, with a screw cap at the top of the engine bay.
Same. I haven't actually looked at where it is on the Merc. I promised myself I wasn't going to do it any more
How?
look up ethanol and metal corrosion - and ethanol and rubbers and plastics.
running a car on older oil than it should be on will wear some parts, like piston rings, a bit quicker than they would on fresh oil. Almost no cars are these days written off because of overly worn engines - despite 20k oil changes having been around for well over a decade, there are zero manufacturers who are "known" to fail through this mode either - suggesting that extending the service length has not caused significant issues.
cars tend to be scrapped because they're either crashed, or have some failure thats too expensive to diagnose and fix - things like DMF, wiring issues and (on cars from before 2005ish) rust. Doing an oil change every 5,000 miles instead of every 20,000 would require 29 oil changes instead of 7. DIY (with modern oil, approx £50 a pop) thats an extra £1100 and 25 hours of your life, at a garage (£150 a pop) thats £3,300 extra. Thats a lot more money for something thats likely to have zero impact on the lifespan of the car.
despite 20k oil changes having been around for well over a decade, there are zero manufacturers who are “known” to fail through this mode either
Old or wrong spec oil is considered the main reason why the wet cam belt on Ford Ecoboost engines sheds rubber which clogs the oil pump and kills the engine. At £7k for a new engine there are quite a few cars being written off. It's also suspected that E10 fuel might contaminate the oil faster than expected.
I know this is the internet, but it would be nice if people stopped posting sweeping generalisations that they may have heard down the pub or read on another inexpert forum. This is not aimed at one commentard in particular.
Lot of it depends here.
personally oil every 4-6k in my cars. oil is cheap really. If i was doing 30k a year i would think differently.
Getting an ODB reader specific to your car is a must imo. atm ive got generic vw and bmw. They are amazing. regardless of if your doing any servicing yourself.
If you dont want to do servicing on your car. Dont, just get someone else do it. Your more likely to break something. I personally enjoy it.
Oh and on the oil thing. Its critical that you use the right stuff. I wouldnt be sticking any old stuff from an oil blender in there. main brand or specific qualities depending on your engine. it has a significant difference.