[Closed] Car parking scrape. Am I SOOL?

Remind the manager that the penalty for a cover-up is always greater than the penalty for the original act.  See Watergate, Damian Green, any of Trump's buddies for proof.

I’ve asked for the CCTV footage so I can have a look for myself, but so far, radio silence.

You mean you've emailed them? That's the easiest sort of communication to ignore. Go and do a face to face.

Is the Gym part of a chain or privately owned.

If it’s a chain, then escalate above the branch level ?

IANAL but I don't think they have to let you see the cctv, data protection  and all that. If you want the cctv viewed you may have to report it to the police as an accident and if they investigate it then the police get see the cctv. Had similar issue with a bump in a doctors car park (no way were we getting to see the cctv).

Subject information access request. They have to give you any CCTV footage you feature in (can't remember time limit to comply, 30 days? Allowed to levy a £10 admin charge)

Don't know if this applies to your car though or just you.

Yup - emailed them so far.

Privately owned effort.

Thing is - I have next to no leverage. We're due to renew our membership next week, but that's only £20 a month each. It's more in their interest to keep schtum about it and lose our business than to dob another client or a member of staff and generate a different form of bad will.

Tell them unless you see the CCTV footage as you are legally entitled to then you will be taking it to the police and suing them

You better just hope it's not the local roid dealer that they are covering for.....

Tell them unless you see the CCTV footage as you are legally entitled to then you will be taking it to the police and suing them

Is he legally entitled to see it though?

The bits of the CCTV footage that he is actually in, yes.

But those aren’t the bits he needs access to, as his car wasn’t hit while he was in the CCTV cameras view

as its private property police will not get involved a neighbour soon found tyhat out, and was accused of wasting police time when he tried to claim it was public land , when the copper came out it was deemed private.

How can you sue a company , that probably somewhere has a sign saying parking at your own risk, otherwise their insurers would be inundated with malicious or false claims, costing a lot of cash and time.

The OP's issue is ultimately with the driver of the other vehicle not the gym.

The culprit has done damage without providing details so arguably had committed an offence.

If I understand correctly the public/private land thing that project refers to as regards the Road Traffic Act, the definition  is not about ownership but usage.

I.e.  if it's an area where the public can ordinarily drive their vehicles or walk or cycle then the rules of the road as regards insurance, collisions and MOT etc all apply.

A supermarket car park is more than likely going to be public for insurance and other offence  purposes because the general public could be expected to be in the space mixing with vehicles. I e. If you bend someone's car in Waitrose car park you are still legally obliged to provide info in accordance with the RTA. The finer line as iIunderstand it is around "prohibitions" and physical barriers on the general public (rather than members) using the space (e.g. an hgv shunting yard).

Of course getting an over pressed police force to deal with the gym, get the footage and give you details for insurance (who would no doubt write the car off) is an altogether more challenging enterprise.

Is this not the point of insurance?  You claim off them and if they want to chase the culprit then they do it.  In all cases you have to inform your insurance anyway so if the premium is going up then it is going up.  I'm not saying don't fix the car, you have looked after it so far and you should keep it looking good.

One of the chips away type people might fix for less than you think.

the police should be interested as s170 of the road traffic act applies in any public place not just a road.  However to get leverage there you need to report in 24 hrs yourself.  From what I have read on line it is highly variable though from officers (or forces) who don’t prioritise this, to those who will use it as a tool to help you get the insurance details, to especially in Scotland it being likely to lead to a prosecution.

since GDPR there is no charge for a subject access request - but as pointed out that would only apply to footage where you were clearly identifiable.

Subject information access request. They have to give you any CCTV footage you feature in (can’t remember time limit to comply, 30 days? Allowed to levy a £10 admin charge)

Don’t know if this applies to your car though or just you.

How does this work in practice?  You don't get to see the footage, so it's up to them to review it and see if you feature.  What is stopping them saying 'No, you don't appear in any of footage' as a stock answer to all requests, so they don't have to be bothered/or potentially protect their colleague in this case?  It might be a law, but is it enforceable in any way?

How does this work in practice?  You don’t get to see the footage, so it’s up to them to review it and see if you feature.  What is stopping them saying ‘No, you don’t appear in any of footage’ as a stock answer to all requests, so they don’t have to be bothered/or potentially protect their colleague in this case?  It might be a law, but is it enforceable in any way?

As a traffic offence has been committed and their legal basis for the CCTV presumably say's "for reasons of ..." either they play along or they really have no legal basis to be using the CCTV???

As a traffic offence has been committed and their legal basis for the CCTV presumably say’s “for reasons of …” either they play along or they really have no legal basis to be using the CCTV???

It might be a law, but is it enforceable in any way?

If they really wanted to cover something up wouldn't they just say the footage has been overwritten?

Maybe you got the bump somewhere else...like when you reversed into that bollard.. 😉

Would you recognise the car to your right if you went there again? Check if it has any matching scrapes?

Speak to Gym reception... so and so number plate has left their lights on, that'll find the owner... have a word?

– I reckon £3-400 as a cash-in-hand job at the local body shop to fix,

Find yourself a new local body shop. For how you describe the damage that doesn't sound like a "cash in hand" price.

tbh i think your stuffed 🙁

Given the choice of an accident to declare for the next 5 years or a small dent on the bumper of a 13 year old car I would live with the dent.

Yes it's shit when people don't own up but it is only a car. When my wife's 11 year old car got a scrape while parked I sanded it and touched up the small corner of exposed metal.

Given the choice of an accident to declare for the next 5 years or a small dent on the bumper of a 13 year old car I would live with the dent.

Yes it’s shit when people don’t own up but it is only a car. When my wife’s 11 year old car got a scrape while parked I sanded it and touched up the small corner of exposed metal.

Ages ago I ran into a hight restriction with the bike on the roof... only having so much money I fixed the bike not the car... but this summer the bent "weather strip" popped out and wouldn't go back.  £200 for a replacement unpainted... but I just got a used one for £29 and about £15 for the spray paint and clear lacquer.....

Currently waiting to sand and apply lacquer...

Still a few dents in the roof though..

What I had noticed though is once I'd got the damage I stopped looking after the cars appearance... not sure of that's good or bad but I also had loads of scratches from pedal pins... so also did those last night...

I’m sure there will be some who will say just ignore it and chalk it up to experience, “its’ only a car after all”, but its the most expensive thing I’ve ever bought (after our house), Its 13 years old and I’ve looked after it well for the 9 years I’ve owned it – its never broken down or failed to start, no scrapes, no dents, no kerbed wheels and I had the front bumper resprayed last year as it looked like it had the pox from the stonechips. I reckon I’ve got another 4 years before I can afford a replacement. It looks neither its age or its mileage from more than 2′ away, and I really can’t stand the idea that every time I walk out the house I’ll get reminded of the fact that someone doesn’t give a s**t.)

Given the choice of an accident to declare for the next 5 years or a small dent on the bumper of a 13 year old car I would live with the dent.

Yes it’s shit when people don’t own up but it is only a car.

It took 21 hours, which is way slower than usual, but the “its only a car” response can never stay away too long on STW.

🤔👍

I'm more interested in what SOOL means.

I’m more interested in what SOOL means.

It's either:

1. An Australian word meaning to encourage a dog to attack something;

2. A contraction of so cool;

3. A place in Somalia.

I'm going with 3.

"Urban Dictionary: sool
A word combination of the terms "So" and "Cool" used for complimentary purposes"

😆

But I think something like sod out of luck is probably more likely here.

... or some overly obsessive loser? No offence.

Haven't read all the thread, sorry if it's a repeat. I'd be checking the ICO website about how to deal with refusal to supply cctv footage.

Am I SOOL?

I am Vinz Clortho. I am the Keymaster.

How big is the car park? People are creatures of habit. Wait a week, cycle to the gym. Then keep wandering around the car park during the time period that the damage must have happened and see if there are any cars with suspicious damage.

SOOL = S*** Out Of Luck.

It took 21 hours, which is way slower than usual, but the “its only a car” response can never stay away too long on STW.

But it's largely true. I'd love to get away from the culture of cars being precious objects. Their tools for a job. Minor bumps and scrapes are just patina as far as I'm concerned. I'd never be reckless or careless around over people's property, but shit happens. Fix your car or better still leave it. I just don't get the whole my cars worth X thousands and a dent devalues it mentally. It's just something to get you from A to B at the end of the day.

My microwave is just a thing for reheating stuff but I'd rather not have one that looks like a stranger has whacked it with a hammer. It's ok to want the things you own to not be damaged, even if they are mundane.

50p says that as a matter of policy, your insurance company will treat any car park accident as a 50/50 regardless...

My microwave is just a thing for reheating stuff but I’d rather not have one that looks like a stranger has whacked it with a hammer. It’s ok to want the things you own to not be damaged, even if they are mundane.

Yeah, it's just an excuse for having a shit car

OK, since this is still chuntering along I'll reply again.

The gym has been back in touch saying they'll have another look, but haven't replied further - have just chased them. Yes, I'll have to go over there in person, but that will involve me having to have enough spare time to just sit there being obvious until they realise the only way they'll get rid of me is by dealing with me and showing me the footage.

SOOL - yup, Poo Out Of Luck.

I think the damaged area is too big for a smart repair - about 9" x 4", and as I think the bumper is cracked, that will have to come off to be reinforced from the inside, by the time the crease has been filled and sanded it'll be a full panel repsray. I've also been unconvinced by the long term quality of smart repairs. This car has had a couple on the front bumper by previous owners and while they were initially unobtrusive, the paint seemed to age differently to the original and became quite obvious over time.

£3-400? I've never been to a body shop and it's been any different. Over the last 26 years I've used a few - older cars with rust issues or newer ones that have picked up damage (this isn't the first time I've been hit & run, but it's the first time there's been CCTV)

As far as just leaving it goes, absolutely no, just not in my nature. I don't understand how you can spend money on ANYTHING and not look after it. Doesn't matter what it is - cars, bikes, tools, clothes, house. You've paid good money for it why would you let it get trashed? I mean if we swapped "its only a car" for "its only a bike" and I walked up to your bike and booted it, I'd expect to get thumped in return and presented with a repair bill.

Cars specifically - nothing shouts "crap driver who doesn't care" like a battered vehicle, and why would any of us (<span style="text-decoration: underline;">especially</span> us on bikes) want to share the road with people like that? I avoid parking next to obviously battered cars, as I expect the owners to treat my property with about the same (or less) respect as they treat their own, and on the bike, it's a good signal that the driver has poor spatial awareness/driving skills so give them a wider berth. I have no desire to present myself to the world as one of them.

Its back to a variation on Rule 1 again - don't be a dick. I will treat my own and your property with respect, and I EXPECT you to do the same in return. If you don't, you're being a dick. End of.

I guess I'm a crap driver that doesn't care, to those that want to judge on appearances!

If you don’t, you’re being a dick. End of.

A lot of them about, especially when it comes to bumping stationary cars. You are SOOL. I'd look for a used bumper in the same colour. Or a new one.

I guess I’m a crap driver that doesn’t care

So go on then - how did your car, which will have cost you quite a lot of money* pick up all its knocks and bangs , and if you didn't cause them yourself (at which point see above), why are you happy for other people to damage your property? I mean, can I come round your place and heave a half brick through your front window just because I feel like it? And if you're not happy for me to do that, would you mind if I chucked the brick at your car instead? If not, why?

*even old bangers cost "non-disposable" levels of cash. The first car I had to buy cost me £400. Took me a long time to save that up, and no way I could afford to replace it for some years, so I had to look after it and make it last.

When did I say I was happy for my car to be bashed?

I just don't treat cars (nor many other things) as objects of status or judgement. (I do look after them mechanically though).

Sorry but you're the one coming across as a dick now, no idea why the state of someone else's property is so important to you

 I mean, can I come round your place and heave a half brick through your front window just because I feel like it? And if you’re not happy for me to do that, would you mind if I chucked the brick at your car instead?

You realise they're not actually the same as a damaged bumper.

And if you’re not happy for me to do that, would you mind if I chucked the brick at your car instead? If not, why?

You're starting to mix up your car being damaged with getting justice for your car being damaged.  Getting your car fixed is what insurance is for.  Getting people to match your idea of what is and isn't right is never going to happen even if we all agree that throwing a brick at a car is going a too far.

Separating the two will allow you to get it fixed and get on with something else.  Tying the two together is going to end in frustration and probably in your car not getting fixed

Don't delay. Cctv will record over it's self every 7,14,21 or 28 days depending on the size of the hard drive.

They will fob you off then legitimately say its been deleted