[Closed] Car lease decision - check my sums/logic.

for 18k a year i assume its for business use....

the last one 100% makes the most sense in that case.

is a french car with poor residuals really the best choice for a lease ? i thought the lease marked looked more favourably on some of those over priced over stated (reliability wise) german marques.....

(im a french car fan before you ask ..... but i buy 10 year old 80k oldish ones on the premise that if it lasted that long and passed my inspection itll probably last another 80k :D)

is a french car with poor residuals really the best choice for a lease ? i thought the lease marked looked more favourably on some of those over priced over stated (reliability wise) german marques.....

I'd agree with this, check the brands that you may think would be more expensive, better residuals often make leasing them a cheaper option.

Are your prices including VAT?

Do you get a car allowance? I'm seeing Citroen Grand C4 Picasso 1.6 e-HDi 115 VTR+, on 17,500 miles per year @ £297 per month (including VAT) with just under £900 up front.

That goes down to £241 a month with a £2100 deposit.

Both over 24 months.

36 months is roughly same deposit and monthly payment.

Yeah, I know where you're coming former residuals, but when I was checking this the Grand Picasso was up there with VW's equivalent the Touran for residual value - it seems to buck the usual French car trend.

Bear in mind also, you can't get an equivalent BMW or Audi, and family circumstances mean an MPV is what I need at the moment. I've not found any better offers on something that will fit my 3 kids across the back seat.

Personal use, not business! No car allowance, it's purely a personal lease.

All those figures include VAT.

Where are you looking peterfile?

definitely the last one for me

Where are you looking peterfile? Not lings cars by any chance? That's who gave the first two quotes.

I can't stand that website and never found it to offer the best deals anyway.

I just had a quick look on Nationwide Vehicle Contracts (since they allow you to adjust for mileage). The best deals on there were for a car allowance though.

Yeah it's not user friendly is it! I edited as on checking it clearly wasn't that.

Nationwide were one I looked at, but as you say, car allowance is required.

have you tried here?
http://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing

Thats sounds a lot of money per month for a not very good car !

I pay £330 a month for a BMW 320d Touring. Insured/Servicing/Maintenance etc.

Merc estates are usually cheap on lease.

Have you looked at:
https://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-companies/independent-brokers/cameron-clarke-leasing/citroen/grand-c4-picasso/40116696/

3+35 20k Miles p/a
Initial Payment: £961.62
£320.54 Per Month, INC VAT

Beats your option 2 on Deposit, monthly payment and mileage allowance.

I haven't looked for anything else, I'll leave that to you.

I dId try What Car John, don't recall seeing anything better on there.

Funkydunc, where is that from and I'll take a look.

Is that for 18,000 miles or more? And can you get two car seats and a teenager in the back seat in enough comfort for 7-8 hour drives? These are the issues that bump the cost up and limit my options!

Doosuk, thanks, will check them also.

I've not found any better offers on something that will fit my 3 kids across the back seat.

I'd look at different car seats first, some are waaaay bigger than others. Short of young triplets all in stage1 and special needs, loads more cars can accomodate 3 across.

For the same(ish) money per month I'd be inclined to go with a 2 year as opposed to 3 year deal - less 'lock in'. And if it includes maintenance that is another variable out you don't need to worry about.

tbh Though I'd rather spend the money on buying something new/nearly-new and keep it. Worth doing the figures to see when the break-even is. When we bought my wife's Freelander we looked at both lease and purchase - worked out cheaper to buy (got a 1% pa finance deal).

[i]Thats sounds a lot of money per month for a not very good car !

I pay £330 a month for a BMW 320d Touring. Insured/Servicing/Maintenance etc.
[/i]

Apples and Pears...

2 car seats in a 320, fitting a human in between might be a struggle even with narrow models. Certainly not for that length of time.

A question for anyone who does these deals regularly, A lot of the deals state it is possible to buy the car after the 3 year period. Has anyone got any insight into the sort of money they ask for the cars, I assumed it would be book value however a friend suggested they offered the car to him at a seriously tempting low price.

I'm looking into it for my parents as a posibility to get rid of a unreliable car and get them into a worry free car for 3 years but would like to buy it at the end if the price was right so they have something to show for it. I'm assuming you could look at it like paying finance for the first three years to cover depr then buy the car out right at the end for a chunk off the list price. I'd obviously need to do the figures here.

Dooosuk - thanks for that link, enquiries sent.

b r - We've been deliberating for months which is the best option for us, but have decided to go for a lease and evaluate at the end to see if we think it was worth it.

The folk dooosuk suggested have come up with two quotes...

1) 1.6 diesel VTR+ trim, 18,000 miles, 6+35 at £273 so that's £1635 down, total over 3 years £11,178, so £3,726 a year.

Or

2) Same but Exclusive trim for £316, so £1756 deposit, total over 3 yrs £12,006, so as good as £4000 a year.

Both of which are better than the first ones I posted.

You should really be asking this on Pistonheads. They have whole threads dedicated to cheap leasing.

The firm I suggested pop up a lot which is why I had a quick look for you but it's not something I look into myself.

Glad it's saved you over £500/yr though!

Join Pistonheads as well as STW!? I'd end up like hora.

You know you are signing upto the lease for the full three years? If you lose your job etc you still owe the full length. Plus you need GAP insurance too (essential).

Am I reading this right? You want to rent a car for almost £13,000 cost? 😯

Pretty much.

http://www.nationwide-cars.co.uk/info/special_offer_details.asp?deal=2013+Nissan+Qashqai+Deals-833

Scroll down- from 15k

You own it and can do whatever you want to it. You don't need permission to take it to France on holiday etc either like you do with a lease car.

Plus if its from Citroen/MPSA leasing- beware of their handback clauses. They aren't BVLA signed up so their terms aren't as 'fair'. For instance any stone chips are charged as a full respray to the area.

£4k a year for a Picasso??? That's proof the world it utterly bonkers nowadays.

Would it not be financially better to get a personal loan (or maybe a 0% CC - very long interest free periods available at the moment, I got one over 19 months IF) and buy a year or two old one, which you can sell later on??

TBH committing to almost 13k is crackers. Unlike buying a car (you can sell it or px it anytime you like/or situation changes)- you are tied lockstock to a personal lease for the duration or 100% settlement.

Handback day of my Citroen they went round the car very carefully- I had chipsaway around before, all new main dealer wheel trims (wheels have to be 100%- no scuffs or scratches), fully cleaned to an inch of its life.....then it absolutely belted it down just before the chap turned up concealing the front end touch ups 😀 The assessor told me I was definitely an exception as he normally charges on handback.

agree, just buy something near new for the same money, if you have to borrow it Sainsburys Bank are doing 3.8% loans up to £15k, pay back say over 3 years and at least it'll be yours to do whatever with and still be worth something at the end of loan repayment

How much is a second hand car with say 50,000 on the clock? Why tent and why have new?

I think you're probably going to get dry bummed on any lease if you're doing 18k a year.

(Proper) Hire purchase contract may well offer a better deal, and worst case scenario you can hand it back once half the overall cost has been paid

Something like [url= http://mobile.motorpoint.co.uk/VehicleAdvert/CITROEN/C4%20GRAND%20PICASSO/511156 ]this[/url] no good? Near enough new, £12k plus interest but you'd own it. They also do PCP deals I think.

[i]I'm looking into it for my parents as a posibility to get rid of a unreliable car and get them into a worry free car for 3 years but would like to buy it at the end if the price was right so they have something to show for it[/i]

There is nothing 'to show for it' at the end. They'll sell you the car for the price they think they can get at auction less costs (so probably saving £250).

Ok, suppose you find or can source a nearly new (like daveh's) or indeed new car, at a massive discount - for example, the one I mentioned above, I can get through a work related discount scheme for £17000 not its list price of £22000 and something.

I still have up to 2k to put down as a deposit. I can't afford a £15,000 loan over 3 years - that would be £400+ a month.

Can you get PCP style finance independently of a dealer, so get the monthly cost lower and have the option to buy it or walk away at the end?

This would be better right, because I could take advantage of the almost 25% off the list price? (I know the finance companies don't pay list price though).

'Worry free car'.

Trust me you don't want to leave a private lease car in a supermarket carpark then..

I still have up to 2k to put down as a deposit. I can't afford a £15,000 loan over 3 years - that would be £400+ a month.

You don't need to have fully paid off the finance in 3 years though do you? Work out what the car will be worth in 3 years. I bet it's pretty much what will be remaining on a 5 year loan for £15k.

Take out a 5 year loan...pay a your 5 year loan monthly repayment for 3 years, sell the car and then pay off the last two years finance with the proceeds. Pretty much what PCP is.

Good point

You can. Borrow over 4yrs. Or buy something nice. Sheesh even 9k would get you a nice reliable Honda.

Poor people do what you are proposing - focus on the 'what I can afford in installments' avoiding what the impact is overall. You won't even own the car.

Wouldn't fancy handing back a lease car after 3 years of my kids destroying it. Buy a year old one all day long.

Mine was a 2yr lease on 29k. It needed a fair bit of cosmetic attention 😯

You can. Borrow over 4yrs. Or buy something nice. Sheesh even 9k would get you a nice reliable Honda.

Poor people do what you are proposing - focus on the 'what I can afford in installments' avoiding what the impact is overall. You won't even own the car.

Perhaps I'm fed up of driving older cars with unpredictable and unexpected bills, and perhaps, due to events that I'm not particularly inclined to regale the forum with, I wan't my family to be in a car that has the most up to date safety features and is reliable (yeah, Citroens, I know 🙄 ) i.e. In warranty.

And I don't think its only 'poor' people who are mindful of their monthly outgoings, and the implications of different figures.

I'm not sure the leases are really your best value option.

You could buy nearly new with a credit card on 0percent, rest on a loan. We got a 1yr old octavia estate with loads of extras owned by an elderly couple for £11k. Something rude like 8k off the new price.

Or if you are doing a lot of mileage consider an older Honda or Beamer and run it into the ground. As aptly said above you'll be dry bummed for high mileage 🙂 I say Honda and Beamer as with a family they should be pretty reliable and safe

Again, I would happily drive a BMW, but I'm not so sure I could fit everyone in quite so happily!

Point taken on the mileage, but that would still have an impact on the resale value of anything I ended up owning - less in absolute £ terms no doubt, but an effect nonetheless.

Poor people do what you are proposing - focus on the 'what I can afford in installments' avoiding what the impact is overall. You won't even own the car.

In fact, this is not the case at all. A few people need to go and take Management Accounting 101 and learn about cash flow versus lump sums.

EDIT: for the OP, sorry if you already know, or someone has already mentioned, but you can get ex-demos, year olds on PCP type lease from dealers...might get you in a spacious car, with latest safety features with most of the warranty still left? I reckon, as others have said, sticking 54k miles on the car over 3 years is always going to hurt you somewhere.

Kenny senior your swapping bills for rental cost. Don't forget to factor in circa £400 on top of your figures for hand back charges. That's a guess but if you kerb/refurb the alloys alone...then there's small dents/parking rub etc.

Rob2 still has/had 2yrs warranty in his deal and I bet some manufacturers offer extended used warranties. Anyway. Your money.

Leasing only works IMO if its a killer deal. I paid £100 a month for 15k a year on a 3+23.

I can get two car seats and me in the middle of our Honda Jazz. Done a few 400 mile trips like that. It's a squeeze but it's all doable. Easier in those Honda frz's or whatever they were called.

Look I didn't mean to come across quite so bluntly! I'm well aware that leasing is some way from being the most cost effective way of getting in a car, and Imwas expecting to have that pointed out 🙂 , but I have thought about all the options for a long time, and this is both affordable and, at the moment for us a little extra for the convenience and lack of hassle has its place.

I agree that paying those prices are nuts, I hate giving lease cars back at work, the amount of effort we have to go through to get them right beforehand or endure huge charges are crazy!

I'd look at buying an ex lease car as that's what I do for my wife's commuting car, last car we bought was a Laguna at 3 years old ex lease for 7k we've run it for three years doing 18k a year and it's still worth 3.5k trade in. So running a car for just over a grand a year is more my way of running vehicles.

Vauxhall are doing brand new zafiras for 10k. 100k/lifetime warranty so even if you bin it after 3 years you'd still be £3k better off

Give up PePPeR.

[img] [/img]

I still have up to 2k to put down as a deposit

Buy something that fits your requirements for £2000 and put £100 in a savings account each month to cover any issues.

something that will fit my 3 kids across

Hope they don't move, eat or breathe for the duration of the lease as interiors are easy to damage and the assessors are like hawks.

a car that has the most up to date safety features

That's controlled by the organic object behind the wheel.

I worked it out the other day that I've now been driving for 27 years and all the cars I've bought in that time come to less than £25k.

Oh and I've owned over 35 cars in that time, crikey I've owned 3 cars since September.

[i]How much is a second hand car with say 50,000 on the clock? Why tent and why have new? [/i]

Bought a 5 y/o Vectra 1.9 diesel 150 for £5k in 2013, had 58k on it. Based on your lease numbers even if it was worth zero tomorrow, you'd still be better off. Solid, reliable and safe car. I'm sure there are MPV's available at the same kind of prices.

And as you are prepared to pay more, then I'm sure you'd get a 1-2 y/o car for less money than a lease - maybe look at a 4-5 year loan to buy?

[i] worked it out the other day that I've now been driving for 27 years and all the cars I've bought in that time come to less than £25k.

Oh and I've owned over 35 cars in that time, crikey I've owned 3 cars since September.
[/i]

And alternatively we've spent more on just a car, and even if I just add up just my commuter motorcycles from the last 10 years I'm way past that.

Theres no other way of saying this, but..........

[i]I agree with Hora[/i]

If youre going to lease then take a decent one
Prev mentioned threads on PH list E class wagons at 229/ month and Golf R's at not much more

The numbers on hat Citroen are just bonkers TBH
If you had the cash to buy through a broker (I know you said you didnt have up front) you could run it for 4 years then throw it in the bin for the same cost.

The above also protects you from any excess charges for paint chips for scuffed alloys and even a 4y old Picasso will be worth more than nothing - probably

Coincidentally we MOT'd our main motor today too
Its 12y old and it cost us a set of front pads, other costs over the year have been zero

Much as Id love a Golf R the payments would cost me more than 80 notes a year..............

Cheers

I'm only trying to understand the thread title, it does mention logic, and to me it's not logical to spend so much on cars.

£ 4,000 on a car is expensive, and for me the comments about having to give it back at the end in pristine condition or be hammered for surcharges is worrying.
all the cars I have ever owned have never cost me any more than approx £1,000 p/a buy at the middle or bottom of the depreciation curve not at the top.

I'm with PePPeR

New cars is a mugs game - or someone with far too much money

I used to work in the motortrade and it always amazed me what people would spend on their cars

I'm now well away from the motor industry but i can still spot a good car at a silly low cost.

Last car cost me £700 and i've done over 40,000 miles in it

For £5K you can get a hell of a good car and it'll be a safe as any tinpot french car and you won't have a heart attack every time you leave outside tescos, or when the kids puke or when some mud gets in the boot

Moreover, something like a 4 year old Honda will drive far better than a rattly french car with 30k on the clock

£350 a month on a car over 3 years and then not even own it - that's the kind of logic i'd expect from a crazy girlfriend 🙂

Kenny Senior - Member
The folk dooosuk suggested have come up with two quotes...

1) 1.6 diesel VTR+ trim, 18,000 miles, 6+35 at £273 so that's £1635 down, total over 3 years £11,178, so £3,726 a year.

Or

2) Same but Exclusive trim for £316, so £1756 deposit, total over 3 yrs £12,006, so as good as £4000 a year.

Both of which are better than the first ones I posted.

POSTED 7 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Go for 1), having had a look, all the extra stuff on the higher trim is nice but not that nice. You can buy a satnav for £100 if you need one.

Sounds like you know you will be paying more than you otherwise might for the convenience etc., and have given it some thought, so if it's what suits your circumstances then go for it. I've never leased or PCP'd, but I did buy my second car on 3yrs HP, and still have it at 11 yrs old, but it's been a lot of hassle in the last six months.

If you decide at the end of it it wasn't worth the outlay then hey ho, do something else next time round. Hardly the end of the world.

For once, I agree with Hora too. Get GAP insurance. It's generally a non-policy except where you're leasing and they expect you to hand back the car in great condition / keep paying even if it's been written off.

But for heavens' sake do not buy it from the dealer.

There are plenty of online providers who are much more competitive (I have a sideline doing the FB page for Direct GAP so declare an interest now) and it's for mainly for excessive worriers and people who have shiny cars. Apart from if you're leasing/any form of HP... then it's very sensible. The price differences between online providers and dealers are quite 'interesting'. Have a look...

Theres an online comparison site too - contact quite a few lease companies and A). Ask them if they are signed upto BVRLA's standard fair wear and tear and B). Do they have any cancellations or one-off just in deals. I was offered CRAZY deals on a couple of Merc B classes, C etc etc.

Leasing CAN work but you need to bottom-feed/shop around and strike lucky with fleet cancellations etc.

Theres a Tiguan offer on this page: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1346121&mid=0&i=5180&nmt=Best+lease+car+deals+available%3F&mid=0

Oh - forgot to mention. Contact a few Citroen (insert manu name) main dealers. Ask them for their best deal. Get their best deal, leave it abit. They'll comeback with a better one. I did this on my Citroen.

I'm still playing four different ones - all BVRLA registered - off against each other, including a main dealer, and have so far got the 3 yr cost down by more than 2k. I'll keep that going until they're all done.

Tiguan deal looks good - is it any bigger than a Passat inside? Had one of those for a hire car recently and that was too much of a squeeze for the kids.

Pop into a nearby VW dealer for a quick nosey?

It looks a nice car, tbh the Citroen will be cavaneous by comparison but (to me) its not all about that as 80% of the time you'll be driving alone I bet.

Its a VW that seems to be alittle classless- under the radar as its not as populous as a X5 etc etc so hard to form a class opinion (all IMO).

"Tiguan deal looks good - is it any bigger than a Passat inside?"

being a golf on stilts i doubt its anywhere close to a passat.

(Looks similar to a Altea XL inside)

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

It's that middle seat that concerns me - a teenager is pretty much adult sized, and between 2 car seats - which in that I reckon can only go in the outer seats. I'll see if I can look at one, but the Passat was a non starter. Boot is plenty big enough though.

It'll probably be 40/60 for no kids/kids in it - we've an old jalopy that I drive to work most of the time, and I don't mind that at all. But I want the kids in something decent. And as I say, two or sometimes three times a year we visit family which is a 1000 mile round trip, a day there and a day back. That's on top of regular 2hr journeys to get to the big smoke for various activities they're involved in.

Like you, were it just for me, this car would not get a look in!

Maybe better with a T5- if only they were unpopular and cheap 🙁

Toyota Previa (secondhand) are quite a reliable vehicle.

Got the wife a Grand Scenic. Ex demo from Renault Retail. 7,000 miles at 9 months old. Saving £10,000 off new price.

Has 4 years free servicing, 4 years Warranty, and Rescue. Has 3 full size seats on the middle row and fits one full size kid between 2 kid seats with ease.

Will be run until it dies.

i got a quote for a tiguan r line 180bhp auto a few months ago via http://www.broker4cars.co.uk
3k down and £340/36 per month and a ballon at the end.

never went ahead but sounded ok at the time?

Will be run until it dies

A week next Tuesday? 😯

Actually the LCD(?) display on the Grand Scenic is gorgeous. how much did you pay if you don't mind me asking.

Vauxhall are doing brand new zafiras for 10k. 100k/lifetime warranty so even if you bin it after 3 years you'd still be £3k better off

A week next Tuesday?

Cheeky Git. Never had a hint of bother with this one, or the old model it replaced. They just keep bimbling on.

Latest Model with Bose stereo , 1.6 dci Stop/start engine and Satnav, £14,000. Pick of the colours, direct from Renault. Under the skin it's the new Nissan Quashqai and they seem to be quie popular.

i got a quote for a tiguan r line 180bhp auto a few months ago via http://www.broker4cars.co.uk
3k down and £340/36 per month and a ballon at the end.

Have I worked it our correctly...that would be 15K over three years to not own a car? That sounds pretty insane to me. My wife had a brand new Tiguan for 3 years, over which time it lost about 6K. Servicing was paid up front (£250 I think), didn't cost a penny, other than fuel. It was a base model, but she was happy with it. No hassles with having to prep it when handing back.

Can someone point me to the 10k Zafiras?

It's that middle seat that concerns me - a teenager is pretty much adult sized, and between 2 car seats - which in that I reckon can only go in the outer seats. I'll see if I can look at one, but the Passat was a non starter. Boot is plenty big enough though.

Get an S Max. Went round the houses a few times myself with that same point, and ended up at S Max or Volvo XC90. S Max won it on running costs, availability in the spec I wanted and purchase cost. It's been no less practical for bikes, surfboards, camping etc. as it's pretty rare I end up stuck in a field if I'm honest, and I do live rurally.

I'm not sure I'd lease a people carrier. It will get trashed if your kids are under ten even if they are beautifully behaved little darlings (mine aren't), I can imagine the handback losses might not be too good.

4 yrs warranty too- I know their rep is going up too interms of reliability etc on the Scenics. I definitely wouldn't lease a people carrier if I had kids or put a bike near its rear tailgate.

Can someone point me to the 10k Zafiras?

Cheaper ones at the bottom:
http://www.carquake.co.uk/new-Vauxhall-Zafira/MPV_5_Door/specials?&utm_nooverride=1&gclid=CjwKEAiAxNilBRD88r2azcqB2zsSJABy2B96-POlW0x_-1JLOGHL04NfuSW2XLNiPtU24o-RY8fxlxoCXtTw_wcB

cant see your teenager being happy jammed in the fold up seats zafiras have in the boot. i refused to do it for more than one trip to work(hire car in a foreign country) and that they should get a propper 7 seater as had we been in a serious frontal crash its an almost certainty that id have broken my neck

Wonder if I could get one of the car seats in the middle (they're not ISOFIX, they're booster type ones) giving the big one an outside seat with the legroom?

Have I worked it our correctly...that would be 15K over three years to not own a car? That sounds pretty insane to me. My wife had a brand new Tiguan for 3 years, over which time it lost about 6K. Servicing was paid up front (£250 I think), didn't cost a penny, other than fuel. It was a base model, but she was happy with it. No hassles with having to prep it when handing back.

Yip. The best cash price I could get was just short of £25k

So £340 x36 = £12240
Plus £3k = £15240
Plus a £10k balloon payment to own it.

Total paid £25240

Seemed fair?

What's the list price?

Of the tiguan? £30k ish

It's that middle seat that concerns me - a teenager is pretty much adult sized, and between 2 car seats - which in that I reckon can only go in the outer seats. I'll see if I can look at one, but the Passat was a non starter. Boot is plenty big enough though.

Don't forget that the seat size goes down as the kids grow older, in a year's time (while you're still paying for the car) it's quite likely at least one of your kids (both?) will be using booster seats which take up a lot less space. It might be worth putting up with your teenager complaining for a few months if it gives you a few more options. Besides, the teenager will be complaining about something anyway, regardless of what car you get 🙂