You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
This is a "thinking out loud" post to see if we're missing anything!
Mate was over at mine today, we were outside working on one of my shitbox cars, he was parked over the road. A passing bus clipped his car, doing a fair amount of damage, but didn't stop. We have witnesses, a good photographic record of the damage and scene, some bits of bus, and tbf since there's only one bus every 20 minutes and the bus will have damage an identification should be easy- if anyone bothers.
Police were informed and are definitely taking an interest, they're going to interview him tomorrow.
When he contacted the insurers- aviva- they said flat out that if he doesn't have a number plate, they'll only raise it as a "him at fault" claim. No contacting witnesses, no interest in any police investigation. He is comp, but not all that keen to make a claim on that basis, since it's an older car and we'll be able to bash it back into reasonable shape anyway, but that'll have implications.
I'm not sure how meaningful that really is- I think probably he should be starting a claim regardless and the whole fault thing will be revisited as it goes, and that basically he's just had a poor start with them. Especially since everything like complaints, ombudsman, MIB, and possibly action against the bus company would probably all depend on an initial insurance claim.
Police call centre advised not to contact the bus operator until after the police interview him tomorrow- basically to not get our dirty fingers into any possible investigation. In all honesty, I think it's possible that the driver doesn't know, it was a sideswipe and while it was noisy and set the alarm off, in a car you'd know but buses are noisy and rattly. But it'll be obvious at a glance that he's hit something.
Anything else he should do, or any advice? I think we covered things pretty well but I was surprised by Aviva's response considering that the police side is open and we have a witness.
Without someone to claim against, a hit & run is classed an "own fault" accident yes.
But that's not the case here is it. The driver is easily traceable. "Who was driving the number 23 to Peckham at 11:45 and came back to the depot with a lump missing out of their bus?"
Honestly, I'd be back on to Aviva telling them that they're talking bollocks and that you expect a favourable resolution. Your mate hasn't spoken with Aviva, they've spoken with some random call centre **** who said "computer says no."
Failure to stop at the scene is a crime eligible for points and imprisonment.
That's pretty much how i see it, hence my surprise.
As far as failing to stop, I think regardless of anything else the driver will be able to plausibly claim they weren't aware. I'm pretty damn sure they are aware, but, I definitely don't see the "failure to stop" offence coming to anything. But from a blame point of view it should be just about as easy as it gets.
What's noteworthy is that the police are interested in this at all.
Indicates to me that this is perhaps something that they are seeing more of. The fact that the Bus company rep has a pre-prepared (and completely unreasonable) position ready to trot-out, might point to this also.
The "I didn't notice" defence seems to be an invitation for "driving without due care and attention" to be added to the charge sheet.
Traffic Polis here. Whilst PSV and LGV drivers can sometimes legitimately claim not to know when they have had a small bump, if there are bits of bus left at the scene, that ain't going to wash either with the police or the bus company. The height, shape and position of the damage on the parked car will correlate to that on the bus. There will also be paint transfer between the vehicles. Save whatever you can from the scene before it gets destroyed by passing traffic. Keep the bus bits and anything that came off the car in different bags / boxes to prevent accusations of deliberate cross contamination. Unless there's some cover up at the bus garage involving a hurried repair or bits swapped from a similar model, it should be an easy ID provided the police act swiftly and the company co-operate. Many buses are double / triple shifted so any fresh damage should be discovered by the next driver if they bother to do a walk round. Decent companies keep driver logs as well.
Consider neighbours parked cars with dashcams or council / private CCTV overlooking the scene. Perhaps more critically, most service buses have multi camera CCTV systems that drivers cannot access. I've attended many a bus garage to access hard drives and view damming footage with the transport manager before inviting the 'unaware' driver in for a Section 172, multiple charges and a P45. Passengers / witnesses could be traced and interviewed but the lack of injury may not warrant an appeal. Many do travel the same route daily so tracing isn't impossible.
Insurers are out for themselves and won't fight anything unless gifted the necessary info. The MIB won't be interested in a hit and run on a parked car. They are generally there for KSIs / life changing stuff where the culprit is uninsured and the victim / family are destitute.
The fact that the Bus company rep has a pre-prepared (and completely unreasonable) position ready to trot-out, might point to this also.
I think you've misread, or misunderstood. The offended party contacted his insurer Aviva who trotted out the 'no plate, no-one to claim against line', that wasn't the bus company. OP should be able to get that easily from the bus company when he contacts them, nothing as yet says they will deny it, once alerted to the fact, and even less so based on downshep's info of all the evidence that can be provided if they seem unsure. It's just that the police don't want the OP to contact the bus company yet while they investigate if it's a charge or an honest 'didnt know, sorry, here's details for you to claim against '
Next bit gives no pleasure to write but is just how it is. Be prepared - OP is obliged to tell his insurer he has been involved in an accident (as he has) and even if it's entirely not his fault, insurers use statistics to determine premium and statistics say drivers that are in accidents are higher risk to insure. So even if he makes no claim and keeps NCD, the raw premium is likely to be higher so even after NCD he'll pay more next year.
Second, I get impression that being an older car that just needs bashing into shape you might be on the edge of a non viable repair/ write off. If it was a private claim against another driver you might be able to do a 'here's £500 for the parts and inconvenience but I won't make a claim' (still have to inform insurance company though, as above it's material info for them to assess your risk going forward) - not sure if being a big company the bus company will have that flexibility or whether it'll just go to insurers as a matter of course. If that's the case then you might get into having to negotiate a sum and then buy the car back from the insurer who then own it, as a Cat Whatever, and then fix it yourself. With implications to both reinsurance and resale if that ever is a prospect. And I think even if they offer to repair you can decline and ask for a cash payment to do it yourself, but not so sure on that in these days of approved repairers, etc.
Lastly, honest....don't fall for any scams on claims management companies handling it for you and offering easy access to a hire car while it's being repaired, etc. As I say, scams.
I had similar many years ago with Churchill.
We provided the other parties full details, heck I even went round to his house to speak to him and confirmed his address. He was uninsured or incorrectly insured we believe.
Basically Churchill did nothing. Then three months later closed the case as our problem and they 'could not trace the other driver'. Cue more months of call centre 'computer says no' shenanigans and our file/records being shredded(!).
It ended up with me issuing a Notice Before Action on grounds they had not done what I paid and contracted them to do - insure and indemnify me. Within a fortnight we had the years premium returned, our excess repaid, NCD reinstated and £50 M&S voucher attached to a letter basically asking us not to take them to court and not to report them to ombudsman.
My view still is that they took the easy, profitable route not what our contract was - and that was basically fraud.
I'd just call Aviva again, hopefully get a rep who's less of a numpty.
I’d just call Aviva again, hopefully get a rep who’s less of a numpty
Definitely - my last claim, where'd I'd put a tiny crack in a bumper and the insurance claaim against me was £5K - first **** person I spoke to wouldn't entertain giving me any details on what was claimed, phoned the next day and a different rep read out the full mechanic's report on what was fixed.
I'd stick with not making assumptions Cougar. I work in the motor claims department at Aviva, based in Norwich. They may sound foreign but I assure you, they are British and not some random call centre.
So I talked with one of the girls in the team and she's basically said exactly what you've said they said. They work with the information given and evidence is always needed to complete the story before a decision is made. Be warned, this sort of claim could be drawn out by the bus company, if they piss about, it could take up to a year.
Good thing is, the bus should have cctv on the side of the bus to watch for cyclists...pretty sure that should help you. Wait for police report, you have parts of the bus for evidence...if not get in touch and I'll see what's going on.
They may sound foreign but I assure you, they are British and not some random call centre.
Assumptions? Where has Cougar said anything about nationality??
You're right db, I made an assumption that with this
"Your mate hasn’t spoken with Aviva, they’ve spoken with some random call centre **** who said “computer says no.”
...
...he meant an offshore call centre, which is exactly how people put it "politely" - I hear it all the time. People generally assume most call centres are abroad as most companies want to save money.
If I'm wrong, apologies on my assumption. However if I'm not, will you?
Bus driver here,
I’ve had someone drive into the rear corner of my (20 ton) bus, ripped the whole bumper off his toyota.
Didn’t feel a thing, didn’t hear a thing, but i stopped because I’d seen something n the mirror that didn’t’look’ right. There was no visible damage to the bus.
The guy was adamant it was my fault, even though he was changing lane.
So, if a bus or truck driver claims to have seen/felt/heard nothing, they could be telling the truth.
I’d say also though, if they can’t miss a stationary car, ‘maybe’ bus driving is the wrong job for them.
However if I’m not, will you?
Never to someone who works in car insurance!! 😆
All we need now is is Mr Dent the panel beater to show up on this thread and we have a full house!
Awesome, thanks folks. I'll be honest, a big part of this is just trying to help my mate, who like me is an emotional basket case and would be stressed enough if it were all easy. There's some fantastic stuff in here, STW is awesome.
Second, I get impression that being an older car that just needs bashing into shape you might be on the edge of a non viable repair/ write off. If it was a private claim against another driver you might be able to do a ‘here’s £500 for the parts and inconvenience but I won’t make a claim’
Yep, for sure. Ironically life would be simpler if he'd just come back to a dented car and no witnesses- we'd have pulled the arch out there and then and today we'd be fillering the body and replacing the bent arm! But even if it all goes smoothly it'll be slower.
It's a classic case of "big bill to fix properly, small bill to fix to a reasonable standard that's about average for a 20 year old impreza and he'll probably put it in a tyre wall at a trackday anyway". But it's still definitely enough to want to either get it paid for or written off with a fair value.
Sorry I’m confused. If they are saying the issue is not having a number plate, can’t you just get it from the bus company or police?
OP should be able to get that easily from the bus company when he contacts them, nothing as yet says they will deny it, once alerted to the fact, and even less so based on downshep’s info of all the evidence that can be provided if they seem unsure. It’s just that the police don’t want the OP to contact the bus company yet while they investigate if it’s a charge or an honest ‘didnt know, sorry, here’s details for you to claim against ‘
Not having evidence of who the driver was is one thing, insisting that the evidence has to be the number plate is unreasonable.
If the insurer writes off your friend's car it may not be a problem. Typically you can buy back the car, fix it, get it MoT'd if necessary and carry on. Mine was valued at £1300, they sold it back to me for 23%, so after deduction of excess I received about £800, it cost me less than £100 to have it fully usable and legal (and they continued to insure it), and when I sold it 2 years later I doubt it made more than £50 difference; in effect I made £650 for a few hours work fixing it.