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I'm changing the Leaf. New car is £11.5k. I want to get at least £8k for the Leaf, the new car will be financed. Normally I get a 5 year personal loan for this as I tend to get good interest rates however I didn't particularly last time so there's a chance I can borrow at a slightly lower rate this time.
Comparable Leafs are being advertised at about £9-10k, there is one with slightly fewer miles at £9750 at the same dealer I am buying the new car from. WBAC is offering £6700 as a starting offer, however Auto Express is saying £7900 for part-ex. The dealer normally uses a computer system to offer part-ex values but for some reason this car doesn't come up so they are inviting me to come and see them to discuss part-ex and finance, however they showed me the WBAC offer already which suggests they may want to start there.
I understand that they get a lot of commission from the finance, so I am wondering if they are likely to budge on the part-ex value if I take finance from them. They are also recommending PCP because I'm buying an EV, and they're assuming I'll want to swap it for more range in 4 years' time or whatever. I am less keen on PCP as my wife's employment is not stable and she might end up driving much further than she does now, or less, or even not at all in the next few years. I do not expect to be changing the car in 4 years time but you never know. If I take a loan, then in 5 years' time I'll owe nothing but the car should still be worth something, so at some point I'll have at least some equity.
I'm shit at negotiating. I would quite like to part-ex but only if they don't take my trousers down. If they are selling a similar car at £9,750 I wonder what I can expect as a best case offer? I know I should get more privately but honestly I hate it because I'm even more likely to have my trousers pulled down.
Think of it as a seesaw
More px value less discount on new vehicle and vise versa.
They make commission on any extra GAP insurance finance service plans etc.
Whats the xs mileage charge?
IME car dealers don’t chase every sale like they used to. They’re not bothered if you walk, someone else will be along shortly.
Go and talk - if you’re not happy go to another dealer.
And I don’t see the difference in risk between PCP and a regular loan. If a job is lost you’ve still got to pay and a PCP would bring lower monthly payments that may be easier to manage in such a situation.
…and don’t tell them it was an ex. taxi!! 🤣🤣
A) What matters is your cost to change, not the trade-in or the final price. That’s what you should be negotiating based on.
B) According to Harry Metcalfe, dealers are very reticent to deal in used EVs as they’re too difficult to value due to battery degradation issues being opaque. If they don’t want it, then you’ll get a bad deal as they’ll chop it in at an auction where it won’t make much money.
Go and talk – if you’re not happy go to another dealer.
Problem is, it's that specific car I want.
They'll know it's an ex-taxi from the MOTs. Fortunately being an EV that doesn't really make a difference. No clutch and gearbox to abuse for example.
And I don’t see the difference in risk between PCP and a regular loan. If a job is lost you’ve still got to pay
With a personal loan I could flog the car any time I want and pay off a large part of the loan, if not all of it. My other car is worth more than I owe currently and has been that way for a while because it was old to begin with so depreciation has slowed.
Whats the xs mileage charge?
No terms on PCP have been discussed they want to do it face to face.
More px value less discount on new vehicle and vise versa.
I'm not even sure how to go about asking for a discount off the advertised price. I'll offer a low price, they'll say no, I won't get the car.
Re battery degradation - this one has a battery health gauge on the dash which shows full health. Allegedly the gauge is fairly flattering to the battery itself however it's something they can show a new buyer. TBH if they really cared they could get the battery health from the OBD.
C) IMO car prices are still all over the place, and I think dealers are hedging bets over all sorts of cars with lower trade in.
D) it's about to be new reg's and they are inundated with trade in cars. Wait a month?
Have you tried Motorway? They were offering more than WBAC when I checked recently.
Still shite.
They're in Bristol. Might be a better EV market there since it now has an ULEZ
Remember WBAC sell on to the trade, so there has to be room in their offer for 2 sets of profit. As said above, Motorway cuts out that middle man. However, the trade is apparently nervous about EVs currently so that might affect their keeness to buy (which will be reflected in the price).
TBH, I'd have thought a Leaf showing full battery health would be a fairly straight forward private sale, somewhere between WBAC and retail. You're more than likely to attract reasonably solvent sensible buyers at that price for that car, and all the buying guides start with "check the battery health indicator", so you're in a good place.
I’m not even sure how to go about asking for a discount off the advertised price. I’ll offer a low price, they’ll say no, I won’t get the car.
Don't think of it as price of new car, value of old car or whatever. The negotiation should be 'I'll give you the old car and £x for the new one' Just get x as small as possible, and work out if it's cheaper to take x on finance or a loan
The dealer probably doesn't want your old EV. They are a nightmare to shift at the moment. We're all on data tools to value now and have little in the way of leeway on price. Not worth the hassle to take in anything but prime retail stock.
The days of huge finance commissions are over, the FCA are knocking on the PLC's doors. We aren't even targeted anymore.
I work for a main dealer and I've just bought a car from a rival Plc. Went along, agreed to the finance and asked for a £500 discount on the car (got 380) if I took their warranty and paint protection... Rang up the next day and said I'd changed my mind on the warranty, paint and finance.
You might find that if your car is an Ex taxi they may not take it as px or you get low balled big time, its normally one of the questions on the paperwork you need to fill out when selling a car to a dealer.
PCP may not be a bad way of buying an EV as they will guarantee it's value come the end of your agreement and if the car is worth less than the figure you can walk away and hand back the keys. Ev's aren't known for holding their value particularly well and are proving difficult for dealers to shift to private buyers.
As someone else mentioned you'll need to focus on the "cost to change" all that will happen in the negotiation is that they'll add some to one side of the deal and take a little from the other side to try and please you and its easy to get hooked up focused on one side or the other.
I think you'll be bid really low on a used ev at the moment, the used prices are losing loads month on month so a dealer will just want to punt it on at auction (with low demand) rather than risk getting caught holding onto depreciating stock.
You’re more than likely to attract reasonably solvent sensible buyers at that price for that car
Ok fair point - last time I sold a car it was pretty cheap.
PCP may not be a bad way of buying an EV as they will guarantee it’s value come the end of your agreement and if the car is worth less than the figure you can walk away and hand back the keys. Ev’s aren’t known for holding their value particularly well and are proving difficult for dealers to shift to private buyers.
But surely dealers also know this and it will be factored in to the monthly price anyway?
Problem is I reserved the car just after it came in, so they know I want it. They did ask me if I'd be interested in anything else, so maybe there's something else they'd rather shift.
Yes they will factor in the depritaition you are right but I don't think anyone really knows where the EV market is going at the moment, other wise the rest of the used car market seems to be very strong still.
There's no right or wrong way of doing it, just need to work out which way you are most happy to make the numbers work.
If you can afford the cashflow (i.e can borrow from savings while selling privately, or get cheap credit). Work out your best case deal total cost (private sale, personal loan and what you want to pay for the car) and see if their package is competitive.
Problem is I reserved the car just after it came in, so they know I want it.
Unreserve it, wait a while and then look again. Or go to a different dealer.
By reserving it, you’ve put yourself at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating.
WRT the battery health indicator, I don’t know enough about that particular model, but the battery uncertainty is dragging the whole segment down, which is apparently why dealers don’t want much to do with them.
On the plus side, if you’re also buying an EV it gives you more leverage to bargain the price down.
You kind of have put yourself at a disadvantage by reserving but you still don't have to buy it unless the deal meets your minimum requirements, so put that out of your head that there's any obligation. Another one would come along, eventually.
Of course the best will be a private sale and if you can find a way of financing the transition in the meantime, if there's say £1000 difference between selling privately or a dealer trade in that will cover a lot of taxi / bus / train or even hiring a car for a week if needed. And it might be a bit of hassle, but it's not exactly boy racer tyre kicker territory as others have said, you'll probably have a load of solvent beardy yoghurt weavers to deal with instead 😉
I’m not even sure how to go about asking for a discount off the advertised price. I’ll offer a low price, they’ll say no, I won’t get the car.
You want your first offer rejected, they won't refuse to sell, you'll just have a starting point. In fact, even if your first offer is acceptable (within reason, I don't mean offer the sticker price +10%!) they'll reject it because that's how it works, they expect you to have offered less than you're willing to pay. There may be less haggling expected nowadays but I'd expect there to be a bit still, even if it's just to pass the time of day.
At the same time - of course we all want the best possible deal but how much of that is because we all want to be winners, and how much is really because we need that £250 knocked off. If it's a car you really want, and you can do a deal and get into the car and drive it away for minimal hassle is £250 really that important compared to all the time and effort. As 25 tenners on a desk, sure I'd pick it up, but if you're keeping it for 5 years that's a pound a week over the ownership.
Looking at the numbers in your OP and assuming they're right, if book PX is £7900 and new car is 11500 that's 3600 difference.
I'd be aiming for PX plus £3k give or take, I'd be using the fact they've got a similar car on the forecourt for £9750 to argue that they can make money on a (nominal) £8500 PX number but however they want to adjust the sticker price and PX to balance the books is up to then. My offer then would be this plus £2800, aiming for this plus £3000 and if I had to pay £3250 then as i said it's a pound a week.
or- Sell privately for say £9000 for a quick sale, get new one for £11500, you don't even have the £1000 difference I estimated above.
You’re right about dealers not negotiating on ticket price… when i got the Polestar, I offered a bit less. They just said “nope..our prices are fixed”.. no where to really go from there!
DrP
No, £250 is not that important. TBH I want the car and I'm willing to pay for it. It's relatively high mileage for the age, but these cars have more durable LFP batteries and they have proper heating and cooling so they should last very well. In the pictures the interior looks mint, and it's a top spec model which aren't particularly common.
The big question is over trade-in. But as has been said, it may well be worth the effort of private sale. I will see what the dealer can offer. But if they don't want my current car, they will push me to sell it privately anyway. I might offer to take their finance if they give me a good deal.
What worries me is having to pay the finance and insurance on the old car as I sit waiting for people to come and view it.
I follow high peak autos on youtube, he did a feature on a leaf, 2016, low miles. Just looked up his stock it sold pretty much straight away 6k.
I got wbac valuations for an aygo i m buying, most advertised at c7 to 8k, this one wbac started at 4.5, i m getting regular emails upping offer its now at 5k.
Problem is, it’s that specific car I want.
Is that example the only one ever made? Get on the internet and find another
IME the new reg plate/sales target link doesn't exist as much now as it once did; find what you want and buy it. If you get a deal in March that's a bonus
But as has been said, it may well be worth the effort of private sale
If a dealer doesn't want it then there's a reason. PX and be done unless WBAC is offering a near match on price as a fallback
Is that example the only one ever made? Get on the internet and find another
Where do you think I've been the last few months? 🙂 this one is local, my first enquiry was one in Kent.
Private sale for slightly more than you want so you get what you want when they barter but still undercut everyone else locally. Just say no to anyone taking the piss.
my first enquiry was one in Kent.
Paging poopscoop...
also, your time/effort/driving to and fro will cost 'something'...
if the difference is a few hundred quid, maybe just accept that's what it cost for convenience and take the dealer trade in..
if it's a few K, then that's deffo worth time/effort/driving..
DrP
Sounds like you're swapping to a car that's barely dearer than the one you want rid of.
For me that means you'll get less than you hope for the current one (as there's obviously an 'issue' with it) and be overpaying for the one you want as it must have some 'USP'.
Is it actually worth the swap, especially as you're having to finance it - what's the worse that happens if you keep your current car?
Carwow or Motorway should get you better prices than WBAC. You're effectively selling direct to the dealer. You need to be upfront with any issues or scratches/dents/damage. A friend didn't have an issue selling his A4 Avant but I put mine on last week then got a call saying they needed to knock £800 off to replace a £200 cracked light cluster.
Molgrips going car hunting...
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Does your budget allow you to buy the new car cash then sell the Leaf separately then take out a personal loan to cover the difference? If so, it might be worth exploring. I bought a new (to me) car last week and the PX price on my old one was £5100. WBAC was coming in at a similar price but they always knock off a chunk so I would expect £4.xk. I just sold it via Motorway for £5700 so enough of a difference for me for it to be worth not going down the PX route. This is the second car I've sold via Motorway and as you are selling to dealers it takes the hassle out of tyre kickers.
Take some nice pics of your current car and stick it on Gumtree for £1k less than the dealer price, see if you get any interest in a private sale.
Is it actually worth the swap
Yes. Leafs get a lot of love but not from me.
Carwow average price figure £7800 which is about what Auto Express suggested.
Carwow average price figure £7800 which is about what Auto Express suggested.
Does that take into consideration it used to be a taxi?
I suspect you are underestimating the impact that has on the value.
Probably not. That may rule out PX.
There is of course nothing wrong with it.
oldtennisshoes
Full Member
Carwow average price figure £7800 which is about what Auto Express suggested.Does that take into consideration it used to be a taxi?
I suspect you are underestimating the impact that has on the value
This ^
If you want 8k, sell it privately. It seems that you're expecting the dealer to take on the risk of hidden faults in the car, force them to put new tyres on it (my experience is that they're so afraid of liability every used car gets the tyres replaced), clean it, and then do the job of selling it for you.
They also make most of their profit from finance schemes, so you're also cutting them out of that.
Sorry to sound blunt, but when you say "they aren't offering me enough for my part-ex", what you're actually saying is "they aren't offering a big enough discount off the new car". That's entirely their prerogative.
Sorry to sound blunt, but when you say “they aren’t offering me enough for my part-ex”, what you’re actually saying is “they aren’t offering a big enough discount off the new car”. That’s entirely their prerogative.
Don't worry, I'm not emotionally invested in any of this. That wasn't a whine, just a statement of the situation. I would have accepted a high enough offer.
I hope they don't change the tyres as it has four nearly new Conti Eco Contact 6 on it.
I hope they don’t change the tyres as it has four nearly new Conti Eco Contact 6 on it.
When I traded in my Volvo to a main dealer I tried to get credit for the nearly new set of winter tyres on it, but they told me that they always put a new set of tyres on because they don’t know what’s happened to the old ones.
They did keep them safe for me to collect after I sold them the car so I can’t complain too much.
Hm, not a bad idea to ask for the tyres back, I could flog them.
Having said that, the car I want to buy has low tread on the front tyres so I guess this particular dealer aren't in the habit of changing them.
Right, bought the car with a personal loan. Now to sell the old one. It's listed on Autotrader, FB and eBay. The instant I hit publish on the FB ad someone pinged me and seemed keen, but they wanted me to give them a vehicle report from a website that was dodgy AF. 10 mins later I've got another ping from another scammer. What fun!
10 mins later I’ve got another ping from another scammer. What fun!
Give it a day and you'll really wish you'd taken that grand less from the dealer!! 😬
Hehe. I reckon about £1800 less tbh. But yeah that will start to look attractive. We Buy Any Car Eventually After You're Sick of the Private Sale Process.
johndoh
Free Member
Hey M8 – is it still availible?
I dont have the money until the end of the month. Will you hold it for me?
What did you buy? Is the big question.
That wasn't the reason.
That fake HPI site seems to be latest FB car selling scam. I had loads of initial interest in a cheap car I was selling - all asking is it HPI clear? "It's less than a grands worth of 11year old car of course it is!!!!" And if you're that bothered about its history YOU get the HPI report done. ****ing Muppets. I pulled the ad as I couldn't be bothered with the mither.
It’s less than a grands worth of 11year old car of course it is!!!!
most HPI checks include insurance writeoff, milage discrepency as well as finance checks. I'd suspect more low value cars flag things on hpi than high value cars
M8 wil u swop yur car 4 a playstation 2?
I know I spoke to you about my i3 Molgrips. I subsequently sold that within 24hrs of the ad going up on Autotrader. WBAC and Motorway were quoting about £13k, a local specialist was offering just over £13k or £14k sale or return. I could see nothing on AT under £16k at this point. Figured I wanted to sell quickly and pitched it at £14950. Sold at asking price and could have sold it twice. Had a few spammers but nothing I couldn't ignore. Interestingly, after the first two chompers I don't remember getting much other interest. So I think it needs to be cheap enough for people to overlook any issues you have (like it being a taxi).
If i send a mate who lives nearby, is it ok if i send him to check it and hand over a cheque?
@RichPenny that was 6 months ago or more? Things have changed a bit since then, it seems, and my car is less desirable than yours.
Yeah happily this car is not affected by that 🙂
FB seems to be an absolute cesspit.
I'd recommend using Gumtree (free) instead.
Sold my van a couple of weeks ago with no scammers at all.
But if you're already on AT, that's the best place for a vehicle of that price anyway.
FB seems to be an absolute cesspit.
I think I was lucky - I had several idiots with the usual stuff but one gem – I posted an ad. at 5pm on Saturday, we agreed a fair price at about 7pm, he collected Sunday morning at 10am and paid the full amount by bank transfer there and then.
What concerns me is that I haven't even had any stupid low offers.
Did you get a discount on the Ionic?
No... If anyone was going to be able to negotiate a discount, it's not me.
Someone offered me £7.5k for the Leaf.
That's £800 more than WBAC isn't it ? Just take it 🙂
I might have, but my wife said no...
molgrips
Free Member
I might have, but my wife said no…
It's now her job to sell it 😀
Lol good point, I'll transfer it all over to her.
On a <£10K car, I would have a said that £1K above WBAC price is a sensible value to list at and anything above WBAC price is acceptable (depending on perceived desirability and actual interest received). I'd bite their hand off.
Very low ball offer, cheeky £250 cash in a brown envelope to the salesman.
Is what a dealer friend found one of his team doing, straight out the door.
"Someone offered me £7.5k for the Leaf."
That's the lowest amount they're prepared to pay for it. If you want £8k or £8.5k then you'll need to persuade them that it's worth the extra. New tyres, blah blah blah. TBH, if similar is on AT at £9k from a dealer, I reckon getting £8 isn't a bad result.
Dealer models are mostly £10k or more. Private sales are £9.5k but I just downloaded a Chrome extension that shows when ads were listed and how the price has changed - some of the private sales have been there for 6 months and nearly halved in price..!
My time and energy is worth less hassle/money and this is why I am now happy to just trade in my cars, yes it’s less money but it’s less hassle. If the car is priced low enough it will sell, if you want a few quid more you could be sitting on it a while, which costs time/energy/money and you may need to reduce the price/wbac it in the end to shift it. In my limited experience if it’s not shifted in a week you may have it a while. People often have alerts set up for when new cars are advertised and snap up the good ones as soon as they go up. Might be worth trying Gumtree too, my dad shifted his Passat in a day to a taxi driver on gumtree. You only need one interested buyer so fingers crossed (or sell it to the bloke who put in the offer and be rid off it).
I find face book works.
But I refuse to enter negotiations sight unseen and I state as much on adverts.
I'll ignore messaging lowballers -i won't even respond if your opening Gambit is a low ball. - Ill likely even block you. No good has ever come of entertaining their nonsense.
Everything I've tried to sell is priced fairly and seems to sell easily.
So either it's priced high..... Or possibly flagging up as a taxi or some other massive red flag when they check the history on the plates.
Sold it! Someone asked for one on the FB group. £8k in the end, which is a bargain for them but I'm glad to be rid of it in a falling market.