[Closed] Car damaged in school car park - what would stw do?

Or just leave it dented

1. Thats what insurance is for.

What was thrown over the fence (was both sides on School land? or other side public?)

Sometimes, if not a bad dent, a bang from the inside of the panel (or a sucker from outside) can work wonders.

I know some people don't mind things dented (I do) but this is a 600 mile car so it would seem a shame to leave it!

Anyway big dents on a roof are bad as water sits in them and rust car start very easily, especially if the paint is damaged.

Is the paint damaged or the panel just dented?
If it's just dented get a PDR (Paintless dent removal) man to look at it.
It wan't that much to have the wifes repaired after it was caught in a golf ball sized hail storm.
The roof and bonnet looked like a golf ball!

If it needs pain it could well be that much though

Sometimes, if not a bad dent, a bang from the inside of the panel (or a sucker from outside) can work wonders.

+1 - maybe enlist the services of a PDR (paintless dent removal) person who will probably get it out for a lot cheaper than £800.

Would you explain why you believe that the school would/should have a liability?

Paintless dent removal every time

It was hit by a metal object, the whole thing was on school land - there's a fence between the car park and the playground.

It's been assessed by the dealership's PDR bloke and because there's a crease it's not suitable for that type of repair and needs paint. £454 labour, £150 materials + yer vat and sundries.

On my 10+ year old 120,000 mile car leaving it might be an option, I don't think it is on this occasion though.

Why would the school be liable, surely parking is at owners risk?

Not getting at you at all, just wondering if there's info missing.

[s]But as above chips away type guy should sort it.[/s] [i]Edit after new info[/i].

Would you explain why you believe that the school would/should have a liability?

[i]Would you explain why you believe that the school would/should have a liability?[/i]

I can't go into any more detail but it wasn't accidental.

Claim via insurance, unfortunately without CCTV you don't have anyone to claim against, but it's what insurance is for, does she have protected no claims?

I would leave it dented or pay myself.

Without knowing the back story, difficult to see how anything else is worth the hassle. I am also confused as to how the school would be liable.

There must be a chance that the increase in insurance premiums costs more than a third party repair?

[i]without CCTV you don't have anyone to claim against[/i]

There's no doubt who did it or when, there were adult witnesses.

There's no doubt who did it or when, there were adult witnesses.

Erm should that person not be paying then?

yep, I'm also lost as to why it was the schools liability. Normally there's a 'parking at own risk' notice somewhere, so that'd mean only 1&3 are actually options.
I'd look at paintless dent removal, and after that, take to your friendly local, insurance approved body shop and wave used £10's around....

Claim against the individual that did it then.

johndoh - This is why I love STW so.

Do you have information that the rest of us aren't privy to?

been damaged by something thrown over the school playground fence that landed on the roof of her car

I don't think I've ever worked anywhere that would accept liability for that. (On the basis of that brief description.)

My first option would be to see if I could claim from the individual that caused it (or their parents), that might need you to get the police involved though.

Otherwise I'd probably just cough up for it out of my own money rather than involve insurance, it's a borderline amount for that decision though as it's a fair bit of money.

Was the damage deliberately targeted at your wife's car or was it someone just being an idiot and your car was unlucky? If the former then I'd def involve the police as otherwise who's to say it won't happen again once you've had it repaired.

Erm should that person not be paying then?

Yeah, no pudding and take their pocket money until they are 37 1/2 😈
[img] [/img]

(1 - that is what insurance is for. If you want car to be safer away from children and flying objects, park elsewhere. )

It doesn't matter that she works for the school and this happened in the school. If she had been using the car in pursuit of school business it would be different - if the damage happened as a consequence of the school's activities or operations it would be different (i.e. if the carpark was too close to the games field and a shot-put went through the sunroof), if a piece of the school had fallen off and landed on the car it would be different. But the school isn't responsible for the actions of third parties and being parked on school property or employed by the school doesn't imply any duty protect your property from third parties either.

If you want car to be safer away from children and flying objects

Was the flying object a child propelled over the fence by the OP's wife, I wonder? 😆

As the dealership quoted around £800, If it was my money I'd definitely be getting another quote or two from local body shops.

Or is it a lease car that means the repair needs to be approved?

This is why I love STW so.

Please elucidate.

Nope , it was a Javelin. I knew Daley Thompson still had a good right arm. Getting him to show the kids what he could do was a bad idea. He just got a little bit exuberrent and over did it a little bit

There's no doubt who did it or when, there were adult witnesses.

My teachers union pays for damage to staff cars in the school car park. Might be worth looking into.

It was an angry student , dickhead student, angry co-worker , ex lover ?
Either way, small claims court. Get statements , quotes for repairs, pay your £65 or so then wait for your day in court. If its a yoof then get their parents into school with a mediator or head master there as a witness. You claim for the court fee, your time off work, any legit costs incurred.

the school/LA doesn't have 'insurance' as such for this

It's very likely it does have public liability insurance. The school and its staff are there in loco parentis, and have a 'reasonable' responsibility to supervise the little darlings during break and lesson time so they don't chuck heavy metal objects over fences onto cars or each other.

Claim on their insurance. You may not be successful, but I don't see why you should be out of pocket.

I can't go into details but holding the student/their parents to account (financially or otherwise) or involving the police is not appropriate.

Go through insurance you have to tell them anyway and if theres witness pass on the details and let the insurance company sort it out. That way your not involved, its what we pay the insurance for.

Has the school offered to pay?

You should know better than to pose such a juicy moral dilemma but withhold the most-interesting bit.

No pudding for you either.

I can't go into details but holding the student/their parents to account (financially or otherwise) or involving the police is not appropriate.

wwaswas - Member
I can't go into details but holding the student/their parents to account (financially or otherwise) or involving the police is not appropriate.

By this fact you're already limiting your options to

"Fix yourself"
"use insurance"

There's no other choice really.

Yes your premiums will be affected.

[i]Has the school offered to pay?[/i]

Yes, but in typical middle class fashion we're umming and ahhing about taking money from a poverty stricken state school.

Also does anyone know what

'Dealer Reset £65'

on a body repair quote means?

"use insurance"

It's been assessed by the dealership's PDR bloke and because there's a crease it's not suitable for that type of repair and needs paint. £454 labour, £150 materials + yer vat and sundries.

A main dealer would be pretty much bottom of the list of places i’d be visiting in a case like this

Reading between the lines (teacher telling student off, student throwing something at her car, school offering to pay?) I'd probably accept the schools payment.

If you are worried about them being "poverty stricken" look up their accounts, it's freely available information usually.

teacher's unions often cover this - check it out

Has the school offered to pay?

Yes, but in typical middle class fashion we're umming and ahhing about taking money from a poverty stricken state school.

Ah so it's a moral dilemma, could have told us that at the start.

Clearly if you're prepared to refuse the schools payment which option you choose will be depend on how much excess you pay on your insurance. If it's £500 for example then paying out your own pocket might be the best option.

I'd be taking the money off the school, surely they have insurance to cover such things.

Yeah ask the school if the money's coming out of the fund for textbooks or from its own insurer/from county hall.

There's no doubt who did it or when

In order to make the school liable, you'd need to show that either they had a specific duty of care that they breached or that they were negligent (in breach of a basic duty of care). If this was a deliberate criminal act (sounds like it) then you'd need to show that they could reasonably have predicted and prevented it.

Kid throwing crap over the fence probably doesn't reach a high enough bar to make it the school's fault. Teacher running a cricket game in the wrong place (or probably even giving kids the equipment to do so) and the ball landing on your car would be more the sort of thing to make it their fault.

You must report this to your insurer, you will have a contractual obligation to do so. That will result in your premiums going up - statistically you probably park in places with higher risk. You don't have to claim - probably not worth risking NCD, even if it doesn't wipe it, what if you have a bigger repair next year.

I think that, unless the culprit can be made to pay, you are taking this one on the chin...

I can't go into details but holding the student/their parents to account (financially or otherwise) or involving the police is not appropriate.

Normally there's a 'parking at own risk' notice

Without further info I'm struggling to see that the school is liable in this scenario.

Bit of t-cut 'll fix it

[i]Then that person is liable (if they can be).[/i]

They really can't be. I can't say more than that.

Thanks all, I'll pass the advice on. I did say to her that the insurers should probably be told any way so looks like a claim down that route is probably the best one.

'Dealer Reset £65'

Cake and coffee for dealer.

(I suspect they will detach battery to spray it, requiring a reset of some systems like a stereo or key fob...?)

They really can't be. I can't say more than that

'Dealer Reset £65'

Yes, but in typical middle class fashion we're umming and ahhing about taking money from a poverty stricken state school.

Get a cheaper quote, offer to go 50:50?

TBH, poverty-stricken or no, £800 should be well within a school's budget to stand I'd have thought. A quick Google suggests that an average school's spending is £5k per pupil per year.

Do you really have to notify your insurer even if you decide to just repair it yourself - it wasn't an accident, no-one hurt etc etc? Seems a bit odd to me! I wouldn't tell my home insurance if I fell through the roof and decided to sort it myself.

It is amazing what a good PDR guy can do. Had a dent on a crease line that the bodyshop said there was no chance of a PDR guy getting out.

Well he did! If you are in the south I can recommend Tom at TDL dent repair, he has a number of youtube videos showing his handy work. I would really avoid any kind of filler+respray if possible.

I wouldn't have thought so, how would the insurance company ever know you'd had a repair done.

I'm pretty sure you can fix scrapes on your car without telling anyone.

underage or immune under mental capacity act is my wild guess

But just because the culprit isn't liable (assuming that to be the case) doesn't automatically mean that someone else is. Negligence would probably be required and OP hasn't suggested anyone has been negligent.

Do you really have to notify your insurer even if you decide to just repair it yourself

Wording is usually along these lines:
"You must tell us if you have any accidents, thefts or losses (whether a claim is made or not and regardless of blame)"

Failure to do so would be a breach of your contract - worst case would be your insurer cancels your policy if they find out and then you are screwed forever. Good chance that they won't find out (and you may just get a verbal slap on the wrist), but having cancelled insurance will cost you quite a bit. Most insurers won't quote someone with even one historical cancelled policy.

You pays your money and you takes your chances. If OP is contemplating going after the school then its a bit more serious than an anonymous bump you got Mr Vinyl to take out.

If OP is contemplating going after the school

he said the school has already offered to pay.

If it was me I'd take a payment from the school. £800 is a bigger chunk out my budget than a school budget.

If the school pays and makes a claim on their insurance Does that get the incident recorded on the insurers database anyway so Op has to report to insurance anyway as a no claim incident?

Do you really have to notify your insurer even if you decide to just repair it yourself -

"You must tell us if you have any accidents, thefts or losses (whether a claim is made or not and regardless of blame)"

Is correct.

Schools are struggling with budget cuts and £800 spent on your dent will be £800 they won't be spending on your kids.

As I mentioned a creased dent can be removed with PDR if you get a skilled person. Most PDR dents will be in the range £75-150 so much cheaper than a garage respray (and a much better job as a bodyshop respray + filler will never be as good as an original factory finish). You can email/text photos to get a quote / opinion if it is repairable

If the school claims on its insurance could be a risk it gets recorded against your car then you'd have to come clean to your insurer and your insurance would likely go up anyway.

Yes, but in typical middle class fashion we're umming and ahhing about taking money from a poverty stricken state school.

If they'd offered I'd let the school pay, I'm as poverty stricken as any school 😉

Could always tax the the binlids of their dinner money on their way in to school. You'd be doing them a favour as they only spend it on fags and junk food.

Get a cheaper quote and go halves.

[quote=wwaswas ]I can't go into details but holding the student/their parents to account (financially or otherwise) or involving the police is not appropriate.

That may not be up to you if you claim on the insurance (I suspect £800 might not be enough for the insurance company to bother chasing, but they would certainly have the option).

cloudnine - Member

Or just leave it dented

🙄 STW in a nutshell right there

matt_outandabout - Member

(1 - that is what insurance is for. If you want car to be safer away from children and flying objects, park elsewhere. )

And again

No consolation to OP but when my insurance renewal came through from direct line recently there was an amendment about claims for vandalism. I’d have to pay the excess but future premiums unaffected/no loss of ncb etc.
It is vandalism that we are talking about here isn’t it?

echoing what others have said, I'd be inclined to investigate the dent removal people. The one near us is very good, and in the order of £50 rather than £500. Try asking around local bodyshops, either for the job proper or someone might do a homer?

Three_Fish - Member

This is why I love STW so.

Please elucidate.

He was indicating, with good justification, that lots of people on here are utter tools 😀

Yeah, because only an utter tool would question why the school is liable when the school isn't likely to be liable 🙄

Schools are struggling with budget cuts and £800 spent on your dent will be £800 they won't be spending on your kids.

surely they have insurance to cover such things.

Nope - schools "self insure" ie there are so many of them that the cost of insurance premiums would be more than the cost of vandalism type damages over a local authority / country ( state schools) Most state owned institutions self insure.

There can be no liability without negligence which has a specific legal meaning. for negligence to be shown you must pas the 3 part test. That a duty of care is owed, that this duty of care has been breached and that there has been monetary lost. all 3 parts must be met for it to be negligent and I simply cannot see how it can be.

Either go after the vandal, pay up of go thru insurance. From the info we have there is no liability on the school and the school would be breaking the law by paying you

Take the money. 800 quid is about 3 or 4 days supply cover through an agency. Bugger all. As a teacher I can guess at many situations where this might happen and the OP not want to involve the Police. The offer to me indicates some guilty feelings on behalf of the school so take them up on it.

And collude in breaking the law? there is no way I can see that the school can pay this off legally. They are effectively offering a bribe they are not liable unless something very different happened from what I see in the OP

The school are, effectively, offering to pay for the repair plus a bit.
Where is the illegality?
Better option might be:
- negotiate with school for them to pay actual costs plus any resultant premium increase for the next 2 or 3 years
- if they agree.....advise insurers and explain that representative/agent for the other party will pay for the work
- if school don't agree, give it to the insurers and invoice the school for premium increases for next 2 or 3 years
Get the school's current offer in writing.

Get the school's current offer in writing.

Why ???? They've offered to pay for the damage. Either accept that or sort it out themselves. I'm not really sure what the problem is here. Can't anybody just make a decision for themselves anymore?

If the offer isn't in writing the school can renege or change their version; it prevents a '....he said, she said...' situation.

[quote=frankconway ]- if school don't agree, give it to the insurers and invoice the school for premium increases for next 2 or 3 years

Good luck with that.

the school have implicitly accepted liability; premium increases are a consequential cost resulting from the incident; go for it.

How about a school cake sale to raise money for the repair?
Failing that , try a nearly nude calendar.
🙂

You asked what I'd do, I'd take the money from the school however poor the school claims to be. I suspect the school has insurance but doesn't want to claim. If you claim on your own insurance they'll go after the school's insurance anyhow. So why pay an excess and suffer higher premiums when the school is willing to pay?

Schools do not carry insurance - certainly state ones. they "self insure"

There will be very strict rules about what the school does with its money and simply to give money to a car owner when there is no liability would be illegal in most circumstances.

Schools do not carry insurance - certainly state ones. they "self insure"

Also, your post about negligence was also wrong, whilst being correct about the requirements for it to be proven. Liability does not have to arise through that tort. There are many other ways, such as nuisance, contract, strict liability, defamation, etc.

Anyway, OP. Either suck it up yourself or get 3 quotes and get the school to pay.

Just take the money if they have offered it, the poverty stricken state school will be far less poverty stricken than one of its teachers.