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Slow moving single lane of London traffic yesterday. Police van is trying to get through. Indicating, I slowly move to my left - crunch. The car behind me has tried to undertake me using a parking space - the driver is very cross and immediately says it's my fault.
My van has a light scuff the size of a 50p piece on the edge of my offside rear bumper. The brand new BMW has a long scuffed and dented driver and passenger door.
I point out that he shouldn't of undertaken me...he says that he was getting out of the way of the police. I also point out that the position and length of the damage to his and my vehicle, suggests he really hit me and i was pretty much static. He claims I didn't see him... I didn't to be fair...I was watching the police van squeeze past me.
The driver has asked for my insurance company's details or to go halves on the repair to his door. I've said i don't accept any liability and that whilst i feel for him (the car is less than a week old) I won't be making any contribution to the repair.
Am I within my right to refuse to provide my insurers details? I've said i will be happy to speak to his insurers and they can decide if they wish to pursue me for liability? I don't give a toss about the scuff on my bumper.
You can't refuse to give him your details.
Suck it up, best outcome at this point is he's found at fault so you won't have to pay an excess and won't have made a claim. But will still have to answer yes to the "have you been involved in an accident in the last 5 years" question at your next renewal.
You need to provide your and your insurers details to the other party. And you'll need to notify your insurer yourself also (doesn't matter if you intend to claim yourself or not).
What @thisisnotaspoon said. If he’s not admitting liability then chances are it will be 50/50. Did you take lots of pictures/get any witness details?
Am I within my right to refuse to provide my insurers details? I’ve said i will be happy to speak to his insurers and they can decide if they wish to pursue me for liability? I don’t give a toss about the scuff on my bumper.
AFAIK you dont have to immediately hand over insurance details (not everyone has them to hand) but yo udo have to hand over enough that he can give his insurer e.g. name and address. You dont have to go through your own insurance company, you can tell them you're dealing with it yourself but you do have to provide some details.
This is going 50:50 I reckon, both trying to do the right thing and you didn't check your mirrors before moving to the left
He claims I didn’t see him… I didn’t to be fair…
You could claim he didn't see you moving across either. It sounds like a dead cert 50/50 blame outcome though.
How did he think going up the inside of you was going to help the police van get past if it prevented you from moving in?
Am I within my right to refuse to provide my insurers details?
No - give your details and let them fight it out. And it's what you are paying them for.
Sorry OP, but from your description it sounds to me like you were wholly at fault.
Regardless of the legalities of what another driver did, by your own admission you moved into a space without being certain it was clear.
Give your insurance details, and let your insurer handle it. Bear in mind he can also get your insurance details directly from the MIB with just your registration number, so you’ve nothing to be gained by being awkward.
if you're changing lanes its likely to be your fault. "undertaking" in slow moving traffic is acceptable. If there's only 1 lane is a bit more different, but I'd say your insurance will definitly be paying something out
“undertaking” in slow moving traffic is acceptable.
The OP says it was a car parking space though so not 'undertaking' as such.
There's a good chance a new BWM will have a dash-cam so if you believe you are right you could ask for the footage?
I dont think there is any requirement to move out of the way of an emergency vehicle if it is not safe to do so or involves breaking traffic regulations.
If you were just in his lane and he misjudged the gap, whose fault is that, I do sometimes wonder about this sort of thing ie an accident happens because one party isn’t in sensible position either stationary or moving but as with everything- depends on the insurer/judge on the day I expect.
OK Thanks for the advice. Will give him my full details and proceed from there.
Sorry it really does sound like your fault without any further info,
You moved without checking. You say he was undertaking using a parking space? So if there was a parked car you would have also hit it? Can't get more your fault than hitting a parked car
No because i would have seen the parked car and not driven into it. The space was clear before i started edging forward, I didn't expect a car to try and get past me there.
Scratch on a new Beemer through insurance!? Sounds like at least a $10K bill that. Good luck!
Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre. Good job there were no nuns or kittens to your left.
Sounds like some crap driving from the other party, but... It doesn't really excuse not looking before turning. As above it's the one thing that gets drummed into you while learning: mirrors, signal, manoeuvre. Could easily have been a cyclist.
Under the road traffic act you have to provide your name and address (and that of the owner if different) , the registration number of the vehicle and insurance details.
I am afraid it will be one for the insurance companies to argue out regarding who is at fault.
I always look to my left these days when moving left at any point. Because that's where cyclists can be, and being a cyclist I am quite aware of this.
He claims I didn’t see him… I didn’t to be fair…I was watching the police van squeeze past me
Yeah I'd say you're stuffed. Best suck it up and put it down to experience. Stuff happens, it's life. Learn to look more. Use it as a teachable moment and move on, stronger and better.
It’s entirely possible to check mirrors, while indicating that you’re pulling into an empty parking lay-by, and not see a vehicle trying to push in behind. The OP was in a van, lots of blind-spots there, and under those circumstances, with a vehicle with emergency lights on coming up on the offside, and nowhere to go on the nearside except an unoccupied parking space, then I’d be expecting anyone behind to be paying due care and attention to what the single vehicle in front is doing.
I’ve indicated right on a motorway, checked my mirrors, checked over my right shoulder, checked my mirror again, started to pull out and got a blast of a horn from an overtaking van that I just hadn’t seen behind me, it was hidden in blind spots.
Still have to exchange insurance details though. Feel no sympathy for a BMW driver in London though; probably on a lease anyway.
Under the road traffic act you have to provide your name and address (and that of the owner if different) , the registration number of the vehicle and insurance details.
To clarify - for a non injury accident there is no requirement to provide insurance.
Section 170 of the Road Traffic Accident Act 1988 outlines that if the driver of a vehicle causes injury or damage to a third party or animal, then the driver must do certain things. They must stop, exchange their contact details, details of registration marks. Also, if there is an injury, the drivers must provide their valid insurance or insurance certificate to the other party.
https://www.hdclaims.co.uk/road-traffic-accident-law-scotland-legal-requirements/
As per https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170 but the lawer's page is an easier read.
ignore - slightly wrong
A couple of points - scuff to offside…? By description that is surely near side ..? Pedantry perhaps but gotta get facts right for the insurance, because you will have to give your details. Secondly, having had …ahem .. “a moment” in a car many years ago which involved a police statement, the observation by the man in blue all those years ago is that the onus is on the car behind, which is the point I would make to my insurer
Still 50/50 IMO. Mr BMW could have waited a couple of seconds and pulled into the parking place after OP was past it. But OP should still have checked ( as in shoulder check not mirror check) before moving left. Especially if there was blue lights about which make some drivers act oddly.
the bmw behind you misjudged a gap to undertake you, unless you reversed to the left cant see it being your fault.
either way, you must exchange details, i'd report to my insurance and move on, thats what you pay for it for...
come back and let us know how what the insurance decide
the bmw behind you misjudged a gap to undertake you
TBH it sounds like the gap was just fine until the OP drove into it.