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It's sadly time to sell the Alfa before it costs me any more money in repairing it, so I'm car shopping.
So far a Focus with a 1.8 TDCI seemed like the best bet for practicality, economy and niceness to drive. My friendly local mechanic was pretty positive about their reliability too, which was a big tick. I want to spend about 6-7k, so i found a couple of decent ones locally and drove one yesterday.
Then my used car dealer brother offered me a new shape 2007 Mondeo with the 2.0 diesel, nice colour, all the toys and the right price. BUT... it's got 108k miles on it. Normally I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, but firstly my brother would have to put up with a lot of grief from me if it turned out to be a dog and secondly, I drove it for 40 minutes yesterday and you really couldn't tell it had big mileage. The outside was mint - no stonechips or dings, the interior was almost perfect apart from the right side of the seat where it was a little worn. The engine revved freely, the gearbox was crisp and snappy and there were no worrying noises. It's been serviced at the right intervals too (about every 4 months, by my reckoning!). All in all, way nicer than the Focus.
I'm really torn - I'm petrified that I could be looking at silly bills on it, but as it's pretty much sat on a motorway for its life, logic says it's had a relatively easy time of all those miles.
Do you have any experience of cars that have done lots of miles in a short period? Anything to look out for? Or would I be a fool to even consider it?
I don't know a great deal about the Ford engines, but generally I never worry about high mileage so long as the car has comprehensive history and looks a 'straight' car. Our Merc has 125k on the clock, diesel manual and it feels like it could have only done 20k. No squeaks, rattles etc etc. It has never missed a beat. Costs **** all to service as well, last service cost £120. You could pick up a 55 plate Merc C class diesel estate for below £7k!
You can waay better than the Mondeo you have been offerred.
http://www.autoquake.com/used-ford-mondeo/2.0-tdci-zetec-5dr-diesel-manual/inspid=29149
55K miles, £7.3K but no bargining.
FWIW I run a 2006 2.2 diesel mondeo estate that i've took from 8k to 150k without any major issues, apart from the usual EGR valve but i'm not sure if this effects the 2.0. I should be thinking about changing but i like the car and is probably worth next to nothing anyway.I really think it's down to how a car has been looked after and would not be against high mileage if i knew it's history.
Well if it helps I picked up a '08 focus zetec 1.8tdci with 34k on the clock for 8k off a dealer a couple of weeks ago. Interior is not as pristine as I would want (the sliver centre plastic seems to mark easy - but I'm very picky),everything else is mint - all in a good deal.
Did alot of research on the cars in that group and it ticked all the boxes. It feels solid, safe and holds the road well. Quiet on the motorway too. Still getting used to it as my first diesel.
Personally I wouldn't want to buy a car thats 3 years old with over 100k, but if it's been looked after your 'probably' alright. I'd check what's been replaced and set aside budget for the likely consumables/
Age and lack of servicing kills cars, not mileage.
I use to put 30-40k pa onto (company) cars. Never had a problem with any of them.
But would question your reasoning, 'cos any car you buy could cost money - and newer cars lose more money through depreciation than an older/cheaper cars. My wifes car has just cost us £1200 to replace the injectors, but since a new (equivilent) one would lose upwards of £4k pa in depreciation its actually a cheaper approach.
That's massive mileage for the age. Fords are better made now but don't hold mega miles as well as some other brands. Well overpriced too. You'd really struggle to sell it on so would have to write off the whole cost. Try and avoid anything over with 70k if you can.
Oh if you are willing to stretch your budget a little have a look at the ford direct site.
http://www.ford.co.uk/FordDirect
My touran has 94k on, had 26k when I bought it and it honestly feels nearly as fresh. These days good diesel engines can do astronomical miles without issue, it's the suspension thatll need looking after as bushes will need replacing etc. I plan to keep my touran well past 200k as it's great for the kids, taking the bike places, I can sleep in the back and it's cheap to run. Plus I nearly own it and as I've grown up I begrudge spending money on cars so there is no way I want to take on a new finance agreement.
better the devil you know .....
if its your brother thats had it and you trust him then id have no bother - having had a 95 diesel fiesta that serviced regular took me from 80k to 220k before i sold it for 200 quid taxed and tested (1 month on each) it did 120 miles a day every day for 2 years (owned it for 3 years) on dual carridge way on top of my social milage going to events
you could go out and buy a 50k car thats a wreck - for example after my fiesta i inherited my parents hyundai lantra - W plate with 42k on the clock - it was a dog - low milage but lots of town driving by my mum .... complete ECU failure within a week , clutch failure within a year , head gasket went , the steering rack had to be replaced as it had bent due to my mums inability to steer while moving when parking
Loddrik - the change in you is astonishing! I remember your full on petrol head days. I do agree though about chasing new cars. Plan to keep the Landy and BM a long time and own both outright so only expenses are running costs.
Life moves on and having two kids changes things. I had that many nice cars I just don't aspire to own anything flash anymore. The wife will get another car at some point which will probably be an MCS for a bit of fun but my days of spending big money to turn heads are long gone. I think about the amount I spent on cars and changing them every few months and cringe these days.
Biking is much more fun and cheaper, much much cheaper!!
Loddrik - I spent more on my bikes last year than on running both cars...!
Know what you mean though. Got a 2 year old boy and another one on the way.
if you have 6-7K to spend id strongly recommend going to an auction (decent one like BCA) and getting something that has came to teh end of its 3 year lease.
Chances of something being wrong are low and you are just missing out on the middle man, afterall, 90% of forecourt cars are from auctions.
Condition is king .
Don't spend that sort of cash on a 100k+ motor.
There are 50k-75k '07 Mondeo's out there for less money.
That is all!
There are diesel Alfas out there too http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/list.asp?s=697&dist=10&pc=&min=5000&max=7000&y1=&y2=&txt=&px=&filter=TP&o=p&Submit=Search
Here you go, luxury motoring for less money than a Mondeo - and will probably still be worth more in 3 years than a 07 Mondeo will...
[url= http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201049374668127/sort/pricedesc/usedcars/fuel-type/diesel/body-type/estate/price-to/7000/model/c_class/make/mercedes-benz/radius/1500/postcode/wa145bd/page/4?logcode=p ]Clicky here![/url]
I've owned a Focus in the past and now a Mondeo, the Mondeo is a much better car in every way than the Focus, and just as cheap second hand as the Focus.
Re The high-mileage Merc
Why would you pay nearly £7k for a car that had done 150k miles and will require constant and expensive maintenance? The 55k Mondeo is a far better buy.
Colleagues who took Mercs always seemed to have constant 'warranty work' been done - I certainly wouldn't touch one until they'd dropped into the £2-3k bracket and you could take a financial 'decision' before repairing.
mmmm mercs
600 quid for an oil change at the main stealer ! - needless to say my parents only went there once !
I wouldn't touch another merc. Mine's a total nightmare. The guy I bought it off replaced it with a brand new merc and he's having problems with that one too.
£6-7k gets you a lot of car at the moment. It's a crowded price point with zillions of cars available.
Old Mercs were bulletproof then in the mids 90s, it all went horribly wrong.
I'd trust a Mondeo more than a recentish E Class.
E class after late 2004 were galvinised and had a different type of paint (no rust anymore) and all electrics were updated in late 2005. Outside the OP's price range but Merc are more recently back to bombproof 😀
I'm glad this thread came up as i'm in the same situation. I've got a 52 plate focus not worth very much and is starting to need more and more spending on it to the point i'll be spending more than its worth. We haven't got a lot of spare cash and we've got our first baby due in April. Having looked around (i was quite interested in a merc until i read review on what car) i will prob have to go for another ford 🙁 or a higher mileage BMW 3series touring. The reviews on them are cracking and if i can pick one up with 80000 it seems that it would be good for at least another 80000-100000 miles. Does anyone have any thoughts on what i've come up with so far? I'm thinking a 320d SE 😀
So is it better to go for a higher mileage BMW with fsh upto 5yrs old or a lower mileage ford of similar age?
we bought a new car saturday foucs 1.8 petrol zetec 22k on the clock 1 owner
we were going to go with a more 'fancy' brand but you get an older car with more miles, in the end common sense prevailed to be honest
especially with 5 month old!
[i]I'm glad this thread came up as i'm in the same situation. I've got a 52 plate focus not worth very much and is starting to need more and more spending on it to the point i'll be spending more than its worth. We haven't got a lot of spare cash and we've got our first baby due in April. Having looked around (i was quite interested in a merc until i read review on what car) i will prob have to go for another ford or a higher mileage BMW 3series touring. The reviews on them are cracking and if i can pick one up with 80000 it seems that it would be good for at least another 80000-100000 miles. Does anyone have any thoughts on what i've come up with so far? I'm thinking a 320d SE
So is it better to go for a higher mileage BMW with fsh upto 5yrs old or a lower mileage ford of similar age? [/i]
All you are doing is putting off any money spent to keep the Focus on the road towards depreciation (later) on whatever you buy - plus paying out for a loan. It doesn't matter if you spend more than its worth, its a depreciating-asset. What matters is will it cost less to continue with the Focus or swap it for another car and run that one.
And BMW work ain't cheap, as even the specialist just price their work to be less than the dealers.
And look up 320d injectors..., same engine in my wifes Freelander 😳
Great responses - thanks.
In no particular order:
@fruitbat - another Alfa? No chance! Like everyone says, they're lovely to look, sit in and for the 30 seconds when everything's working they're amazing to drive, but the level of reliability is appalling. It was having two £600+ bills in the last six months that was the final straw.
To everyone that suggested a Merc, thanks, but my dad's had a fair few and I'm not quite ready for that stage in my life just yet 😉
Coz the Mondeo kind of came out of the blue, I've not looked at what others are going for on AutoTrader, PistonHeads, etc. but thanks for everyone that pointed out that you can get them with fewer miles at that price. I'm not in a huge rush to buy one, so I'll definitely take a look around. Certainly seems they're not a lot more than a Focus for a lot more car.
trussle - you need to be a bit careful with the 320d - some early versions can have turbo/swirl flap issues however I have a feeling you'll be looking at fairly recent models?
Only recently joined the BM gang (a very hated group) but I have to say the cars ARE extremely well made indeed. A few engines should be avoided: the 320i is just a bit pants and the 335i blows up all the time but the rest are bulletproof. The doors clunk nicely, everything is really well "damped" they have pleasant lighting, etc, etc.
Mine is a 335d SE Touring so would be similarish in appearance - a good long term option as SE wheels are strong (M Sports crack and fall to bits) and more comfortable. M Sport kit IMO is a total rip off and simply chavs the car up. Anyway a good choice and they do hold high miles well.
Looking at cars here as well, was talking to my local garage the other day, the guy who's looked after my (now ex) Mondeo for several years and he reckoned to avoid the newer ones with high mileage on them, he said at above about 150k things start to go very expensively wrong.
Problem is that at my price range, most of the cars seem to be about 150k mileage. 🙁 I'm getting fed up of having cars which cost more to service than they're worth...
Thanks Surf mat and b r, i do think we need to update the focus now or soon esp as my mechanic i advising me to, he thinks it will cost me a lot soon, and i've already spent upwards of £400 in last 6 weeks 😯 As you said b r though its still prob cheaper then paying out every month for a loan but then you will have a car that once its paid off you'll get at least 6yrs motoring out of it and still have some value left when i want to sell it on.
With the BMW i was thinking of no older then 05 but you can get 06 ones with 70-80000 on clock for under £8k. I've had an Audi in the past and you could defo tell the difference with build quality compared to the focus.
I am also aware Surf Mat that my popularity is likely to take a beating if i get a BM 😆
Can I point you in a totally different direction? A Peugeot 407 2.0 or 2.2 HDi. Mine is an old 406 with 175k miles 1.9td with no more than filter/oil and tyres done and still goes as new. Ok, tatty internally, a few scratches outside but the engine is better than it was 25k miles ago.
Next year me and my mates are driving from Eire to Poland on biking holidays, the Pug will do it again. Not sure my mate's Avensis will.
Have a test drive, I like Peugeots, you might too.
[url= http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201046373169760/sort/priceasc/usedcars/fuel-type/diesel/engine-size-cars/2l_to_2-5l/maximum-mileage/up_to_60000_miles/price-to/6000/transmission/manual/body-type/estate/model/407/make/peugeot/radius/1501/page/2/postcode/tw123et?logcode=p ]Something like this?[/url]
Trussle - you are on the borderline of current and old shape at that age. Current shape has a much bigger boot! I think the 20d unit it also more reliable (and powerful) too.
Yes - everyone WILL hate you 😆
Bear in mind there's miles and there's miles. Reps cars do lots of long trips which is not bad for the engine, whereas cars taken to the shops and back really suffer. My Passat's actually improved over the last 20k miles because it's had almost entirely long trips with cleaning additives etc - I suspect the last owner used it for lots of short hops.
I reckon rep's cars are a good buy - no-one wants them cos of the image, so you get a good deal. My Passat was much cheaper than similar Golfs.
And I'd not buy a Peugot. Of all the brands I've heard way more horror stories about Pugs. There are SOME reliable models but a lot of unreliable ones it seems 🙂
molgrips, I too keep hearing them and with the guys working as reps for the Irish distributor of Trek we just laugh. On average, if you change oil+filters around 6k miles they last 250k before the engine reconditioning. My local hospitals use 407's as they doctor response cars too. I spoke to the chap looking after them in Navan, he couldn't praise them enough for being 100% reliable. Years ago, in Prague, most hotel cabs were diesel Peugeots, for the same reason. I know Pistonheads say Pugs break down but when you start reading it actually says so about the small engined cars.
OP, have a test drive. Image is one thing, comfort quite another.
If you check a used car properly, you should be able to spot signs of a badly treated car.
I bought an ex lease mk3 GTi 16v Golf and had it for three years. The bodywork was a bit shabby but it never missed a beat in 50k miles. I just knew what to look for.
Renault have a far worse rep than Peugeot. But Alfa are still the worst of the lot.
All the stories I heard were indeed about cars up to 307 size. Apart from my mate's folks who had a bad 406.
I still wouldn't. It's not about how long they last before the engine goes though, it's about how likely you are to have something go wrong up til that point. And I'd not buy any car that needed oil and filter changes every 6k miles!
my mechanic told me to avoid anything french when i asked him, i have always liked German engineering tho so hence looking at BM's. The other car i have considered is Skoda Octavia, they are a bit cheaper but essentially a VW and get rave reviews. The only thing is i am only 30 and not sure i can be happy driving around in a Skoda!! At least a BM looks nice 😀
Sorry to all Skoda owners, they are very good cars i'm just a bit vain 😆
I used to have a 306 SW GLX with the 1.8 petrol and auto box which I think was used in the 406. Engine etc was fine it was the pug glue that held the trim together that started falling apart once it was 10 years old.
Literally as soon as I fixed the wing mirror cover the rear view mirror would drop off. The drivers seat lumbar support broke and then the central locking went haywire and you had to guess which door was still unlocked. Good car though it did two euro road trips through Germany & Spain etc.
I've now got a petrol MG ZT-T which is probably the best car I've owned in terms of comfort/handling etc but the boot space isn't all that and running costs are high. With hind-sight a cheap 407 diesel estate should have been what I bought.
[i] And I'd not buy any car that needed oil and filter changes every 6k miles! [/i]
They didn't say 'need', it is a sensible way to increase the life expectancy of an engine, any engine.
I have an oil/filter change done on my cars at 'half-distance', and motorbikes too. Its not expensive.
As far as French cars go - I sold my 405 Mi16 at 143k miles, still sweet and solid.
The 407 HDi has a recommended service gap of some 20k miles. Regarding the trim, I have tried improving the spec and whenever anything was needed, Peugeot dealers in Brentford and even here in Ireland have always been very helpful. BTW Just to give you the idea of the costs, I'll be changing the engine mount when it gets warmer. I bought a new aftermarket item from the local shop for... some 4 quid. My neighbour's Pug had such fitted 85k miles ago, no problems since.
One thing though, Haynes manual isn't great, at least for the 406 Mk.1. A 407SW with the glass roof, yummy!
I've now got a petrol MG ZT-T which is probably the best car I've owned
Credibility FAIL!
😉
I've now got a petrol MG ZT-T which is probably the best car I've ownedCredibility FAIL!
Well I'm not one to care what others think! 😀 I test drove a few cars and compared to Mondeos, Honda Accords etc of a similar age & mileage it was simply a more engaging car to drive with better performance and abit cheaper too.
In terms of reliability it has been no worse than my old Nissan or 306 and miles better than the Ford Escort I had a few years back. There have been the usual wear & tear which you usually catch before they becoame a problem. The jatco gearbox and 2.5 KV6 engine should see me to 150,000 miles and there are plenty of spares on ebay (and a bunch of geeks on mg-rover.org willing to help with advice).
If you are after a bigish car with decent performance at a cheap price I'd recommend it provided you can live with yourself driving a brand others look down at 😛
+1 ZT
I tested one when they first came out; handled good and very solid with a decent engine and a luxury interior.
@Ade - Sorry old boy, I just can't understand your aversion to Alfas.
Here's my fleet :D:
[img] 
[/img]
@fruitbat The cynic in me can't help but wonder what kind of country mansion that would be if you weren't running four Alfas?!
Four cam belts... four sets of lambda sensors... four rolls bars... sixteen coil packs...
Actually there's just 3 Alfas and the Fiat Bravo is a Motability leased car.
The 166 is a V6, so just 6 coil packs for it!
I do all the work myself so costs are not that crazy really !! 😆
Very slight thread hijack - I'm also looking at getting a new-shape Mondeo estate. Probably the 2.0 petrol in my case.
The cars I want are about £9k and 22k miles - so how much should I expect to barter down?
Paying cash, not loan. 52-plate Mondeo hatch to possibly trade in with 72k miles.
Fruitbat - running three Alfas makes the username "Fruitloop" more appropriate.
I've now got a petrol MG ZT-T which is probably the best car I've ownedCredibility FAIL!
I also own a variation of the same car albeit in diesel Rover 75 tourer form , Ultra reliable BMW diesel engine does mid 50's mpg fully loaded on a run only losing 2mpg with a 400litre roofbox. It's got good quality full leather interior ,dual zone climate control ,heated seats and plenty of space in the back for storage IMO it's a great family car at a very good price .
Who cares what the fashion police think ! the same people probably mock those on cheap bikes too.
ZT-T
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/mg/zt-t/postcode/s91ej/radius/1501/quicksearch/true/page/1/sort/pricedesc?gquery=used%20cars%20MG%20ZT-T
Rover 75 tourer
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/rover/75/postcode/s91ej/radius/1501/body-type/estate/page/1/sort/pricedesc?gquery=used%20cars%20ROVER%2075
chakaping - Member<snip> 52-plate Mondeo hatch to possibly trade in with 72k miles.
whatever they offer you, see if Crazy legs can match it 😉
Sorry, did I miss something nbt?
Crazy legs wrote his car off last week and is looking for a replacement. He did post further up this thread : http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/car-buying-mileage-versus-age-versus-spec#post-2092345
A pistonheader once told me he regularly ran skoda superbs on his fleet passed 200k and they were serviced on the dot.
With everything that needed replacing due to use and wear.
108k is approaching the renewal of bits stage. At what point does owning a nice but expensive to run alfa cost the same as a depreciating, costing shitbox out of warrant ford? False economy.
nbt - aha, will certainly stick it on classifieds when time comes!
We've got a 140k 51 plate 330d Touring. Came with FSH and every receipt since 2002, feels a very good car.
I think if you buy something well made in the first place that's been well looked after you should be fine.