Capturing Kids Sport on film

Before you invest in kit have you checked that none of the other parents are going to be bothered about their kids being videoed?

I would be very careful first of all from a Safeguarding / GDPR perspective.

in grass routes football you are not allowed to take pictures/videos (in theory) because of the above, but I do wonder if its more than they dont want people selling vids of the next big star and earning loads of money

This is a very good bit of kit - but depends on your sport....

Veo Sports Camera

Yes, safe guarding is important

I like the rugby take on it ... Home team lets away team know parents WILL BE taking pics and/or videoing.

Not exactly inclusive that. I'd be surprised if that's permitted by the English Rugby Union.

Sweet Baby Jesus

A safe guarding row and a link to quite literally the complete opposite that I asked advice on.

🙂

My first thought is to ask how good your phone is?
You can get some astonishingly good footage with the camera on the phone, arguably better than what you'd get with a separate camera unless you invested real money in to it.

I used to coach with a kids cycling club. Before investing in any kit I’d suggest you raise the idea with the club welfare officer. I suspect there will be safeguarding regulations which will preclude you doing what you suggest.

LOL

Are you guys on the wind up ??

lol

yeah I'd get a good phone like Samsung S22 Ultra, Pixel Pro or iPhone Pro. Plus it just looks a lot more discrete than a huge DSLR with a big lens on it.

A safe guarding row

It's a bit depressing that you even have to think about it.

There are a few situations where there are legitimate concerns about filming but for the most part it's paranoia or people wanting to be awkward for the sake of it.

I like the rugby take on it … Home team lets away team know parents WILL BE taking pics and/or videoing.

Pretty sure that isn't RFU policy.  When I coached rugby 4 years ago, NO ONE aside from official photogs were allowed to take photos or videos and we had to ask parents to stop on a few occasions.

There could (and we had this) be kids playing who are literally hiding from abusive parents...

Have you spoken to your club?  You will need to be DBS checked and probably need to go on a safeguarding course if you waned to become official.

decent pics or vids = which do you want to do?

Cheaper the better = how much do you want to spend?

Based on what you said so far get a Sony ZVE10 Mirrorless + decent lens = £1kish

Yeah, I used to take pics of my sons rugby and football. Only ever had one team object due to safeguarding, so after that always checked with the other teams first. Mostly they are concerned about the sharing of the photos. Mine only ever went on the official rugby team's Pitchero page (only shared to club members) and my Google Photos privately shared for the football.
Equipment - I used a Sony Alpha with a fast multiframe speed and a couple of zoom lenses 28-300 was good IIRC.
(Top tip - make sure you have more faces than backs of head in shot.)
Always spent a few hours going through the shots to pick the best ones.

I would be very careful first of all from a Safeguarding / GDPR perspective.

There are, generally, no laws against taking photos or filming in a public place. (There are exceptions, usually relating to counterterrorism.) People, including children, do not have an implicit right not to have their photograph taken so long as it isn't indecent.

In a private place accessible to the public like, say, a school sportsground then that decision comes down to the ground owner. They can instruct you not to, but they cannot demand that you delete photos already taken prior to being asked not to.

GDPR doesn't apply to personal photography, it does apply to CCTV but that's not we're talking about here.

Safeguarding may be an issue I suppose, anyone can ask you not to take photographs but they cannot demand it (and this includes the police). How you would respond to such a request is of course down to your own moral compass. Personally I'm not really seeing the issue here unless you're planning on posting up videos of kids on publicly visible social media where an abuser might be able to track down geographically relocated victims.

TL;DR - unless there's signage to the contrary, crack on.

^^^^ I think you’ll find that for formally organised club activities that is very much not the case, certainly in the situation of youth cycling clubs and British Cycling.

Thanks to DesperateBike .... Bet he did well in school exams .... Read the question class 🙂

Anyone else, please.

If you don’t know camera gear (like I don’t) then a point and shoot with a decent optical zoom is what you want. With a zoom you will be able to get something approaching those shots you see when in the media. Without a zoom it’s just coloured dots on a green background. Some point and shoots will probably have a manual mode to get creative on shutter speed etc.

^^^^ I think you’ll find that for formally organised club activities that is very much not the case, certainly in the situation of youth cycling clubs and British Cycling.

It's absolutely the case unless the event is on privately owned land and the venue owner / management have said you can't, despite what any "formally organised clubs" might claim to the contrary.

The club might have asked for no photography, and it'd probably be reasonable to comply with that request if they asked nicely. But they can't stop you.

Yours, a (shit) amateur photographer who boned up on the law just in case he ever got accosted by a bolshy copper. 😁

Whether you agree with it or not, itd be a bit dickish to not check with the opposition team that they are happy with you filming or taking photos. There are kids out there with serious issues and you need to know that it's ok first.

As a welfare officer for an 80+ team club, and working in child protection I can confirm that

I like the rugby take on it … Home team lets away team know parents WILL BE taking pics and/or videoing

Is not the case.

Being involved in grassroots sport for around 15 years, it's a total minefield. As above, you will never know who you are putting at risk by filming/sharing on social media. Parent with removed child spots their kid and turns up at the next fixture...courts will not take kindly to that.

But they can’t stop you.

perhaps, but they can, and in cases do, remove your child from the club participation going forward, as it is in their rules. It is not uncommon for parents/guardians to not want their kids pictures taken and most youth cycling club constitutions respect this, with compliance being a condition of club entry. In some instances kids will be under child protection/identity protection, again more common than you may think.

under child protection/identity protection, again more common than you may think

I'll bet that's less common than people just being fuds about it. 😀

Whether you agree with it or not, itd be a bit dickish to not check with the opposition team that they are happy with you filming or taking photos. There are kids out there with serious issues and you need to know that it’s ok first.

What serious issues are you thinking of would still allow them to participate in a school sports day in a publicly accessible place but preclude them from having their photograph taken?

It's polite to ask, of course. Point was, "you can't do it" is usually wrong.

It's 2023, practically everyone has a camera / camcorder in their back pocket and all the proud parents will be videoing their precious darlings. The OP rocking up with a mirrorless instead of an iPhone suddenly becoming problematic is utter nonsense.

Thanks to DesperateBike

No problem.
Regards videoing - it's much harder than still photography. You usually need a high viewpoint and a very good cam to get anything watchable. A lot depends on the size of the pitch they're playing on 🙂
The kids I took photos of are all in their 20s now, so won't object to me sharing a few!
You can obviously pay 1000s for those big grey zoom lenses, but I couldn't so the zooms I used were just a 100 or so quid.
It's only for the families after all! (SONY SLT-A57 230mm)
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Screenshots off my google page for ease of posting

Parent with removed child spots their kid and turns up at the next fixture…courts will not take kindly to that.

Absolutely. But that could happen anywhere. There's a gaggle of pre-teens outside my house right now, the schools kicked out not long ago. I could take a photo of the purple flowers across the road and accidentally 'out' someone.

perhaps, but they can, and in cases do, remove your child from the club participation going forward, as it is in their rules. It is not uncommon for parents/guardians to not want their kids pictures taken and most youth cycling club constitutions respect this, with compliance being a condition of club entry. In some instances kids will be under child protection/identity protection, again more common than you may think.

Makes sense also. But again, if they're riding in public then having a kid as a club member isn't a prerequisite for anyone standing by the roadside with a camera.

I can feel this going sideways. Not taking photos may well be the right thing to do, I'm not arguing that. My point is rather that you're unlikely to get into legal bother for doing so.

What serious issues are you thinking of would still allow them to participate in a school sports day in a publicly accessible place but preclude them from having their photograph taken?

Chancenof parent of looked after child walking past school field = minimal

Chance of parent of looked after child seeing photo that gets reshared on someone's social media = much higher

This happens more than you would think, and has been catastrophic when parent sees photo, works out what school/team/club their child will be at and turns up.

Normally this can be resolved by asking the other parents, and both sets of coaches if there are any issues. If not, and you have consent...fine.

If you are told that you don't have consent, but film anyway... understand that there are actual lives that could potentially be impacted.

Sc xc has it nailed. I have a friend who has adopted kids from a very violent family. It's not beyond the realm of possibility a stray pic on social media could lead violent people back to their kids.

LOL

Are you guys on the wind up ??

lol

It would very sad if a vulnerable kid had to be relocated again after someone was careless posting pics of a footie match.

Seriously, please check before doing this. The rules exist for a reason.

I’ll bet that’s less common than people just being fuds about it.

Pretty much every child who is adopted, or in foster care. Or been involved in a domestic violence situation, or even "just" a particularly acrimonious divorce.

Yes the law is very grey about it, but just because you technically can doesn't mean that you should, and for a group who usually have little time for anyone breaking Rule #1, this has been eye opener.

Re photography issues - what sport are you shooting? How close to the action do you want to be, what elements do you want to capture.
I have taken pics of my lad playing football, cricket and tennis. (haven't had any issues as always speak to parents on home team (they often ask if they can have pics of their kid) and also to other team coach in case of issues)

A decent camera will almost always give you a better result than phone because you can control the variables.
For capturing the action you want to get in close with a longer lens, and have a motorwind so you can capture a few shots to get THE shot. I use an old Canon 7d on fastest continuous shooting, and use a second hand 100-400 zoom, does the trick nicely.
Think about your viewpoint to get a good pic (football you want to stand at the opposition end so your guys are coming towards you)
You might need to think about storage as you will generate lots of pics (even with the best intentions you'll never delete the ones you don't want), but in there you will have a few great pics to go on the wall.
Lots of the cricket dads want me to get shots of their lads batting so they can send to grandparents.

its a great thing to do, i have pics of my lad playing sport from 9 through 15, and seeing him developing and growing is lovely to have for posterity.

Some of the lads want pics of themselves batting so they can upload to insta or snap to show off

sorry if you don't like the answers but again from perspective of having been welfare officer of a large cricket club, a club is not being unreasonable if it requests parents not to film games even if the law says that it isn't illegal. I'd like it not to be the case but 'better safe than sorry' and also rule 1/don't be a dick are not bad principles to have here. Insisting on continuing to film because it's a public place and it's my right after being asked not to would in my mind fall foul of the latter.

So by all means get advice on good kit, but before committing to spending a lot on it, check whether you using it is going to be OK

[edit - good photos above. Easier if it's a sport where you can relatively easily isolate one player that you know it's OK to photo]

I have a friend who has adopted kids from a very violent family.

As have I, they adopted two brothers who were at a very real danger from their birth parents.

My point (again) was simply that claims of illegality are largely unfounded. That shouldn't preclude having an adult conversation around welfare.

My point (again) was simply that claims of illegality are largely unfounded. That shouldn’t preclude having an adult conversation around welfare.

The only adult conversation to have is "what are the welfare/safeguarding rules for the club so that I can follow them"

So I posted my technical taking pics bit while the issues of child-protection were being posted.
As otherjohnv says, cricket is easier to isolate a single individual than football or rugby for example. And it's easier to get a good action shot because there is a moment while the ball is about to be hit that is in one place. RUgby aand football much more difficult as it is all over the field.

In terms of concerns about taking pictures I always make sure that I have spoken to opposing teams coach so they can make me aware of any issues, and make myself known on the boundary or touchline so other parents can let me know. Never had any problems because i'm being very obvious that I'm taking pictures of my kid, and i never post on social media and just share with other parents on email if they have asked.
But as cougar says there are always loads of other parents taking pics and video on phones at football, so I suspect that it has become difficult to legislate.

A couple of cricket clubs locally are even putting live feeds of matches up on youtube, with names of bats and bowlers, and as a parent that is great if i am unable to get to matches- i guess that they check if there are any issues, but suspect that most clubs have that in their membership declarations regarding pictures/video being taken

I suspect too that there is more sensitivity around age as well. Didn't take any football when they were much smaller, now that they're all sweaty smelly teens there seems to be no concerns

I was the safe guarding officer for our cricket club until last season. Clubs would inform before hand if there were safeguarding concerns, that put an outright ban on anyone taking photos, even the individual shots. The ground is private land so within the rights to ask people not to take photos.

I was called out for being a pedo by some fat screaming banshee who accused me of taking pics of her as fat ginger son  when I was taking pics of my son at his football match.

Very much like this.......😂 NSFW

Videotaping children, the public toilet thread. Is it international nonce day?

Yep. It's well documented that only nonces use toilets or take photographs of their own children.

Db and Susepic ... that's the input I was looking for.

Tips on what, how and why

Superb

Thank you kindly

If singletrackworld doesn't ask if the poster requesting photography info has already sorted out the welfare/permission issues, but goes on the up in arms rampage anyway... brilliant. I wonder if he has got the message yet.

I guess I've been lucky that, in my time taking pics of my lad, while I've been aware that I should be careful to be transparent about what I'm doing, I've never come across some of the issues the others on this thread have. That has been educational for me, and feel sad and sympathetic for the kids and families so badly affected by those situations

So while the technical aspects are one element of the discussion, any of us taking pics of our kids have to be sensible and sensitive to the other elements of the discussion.

If you are getting into the technical side of things Ro5ey, you might also want to look at a package to manage/file and edit your pictures.
I use Adobe Lightroom on a PC and it's an excellent way to manage your photos.
You might also want to look at https://www.mpb.com/en-uk for 2nd hand gear.
A few on STW who have bought kit from there

Chancenof parent of looked after child walking past school field = minimal

Chance of parent of looked after child seeing photo that gets reshared on someone’s social media = much higher

I have a friend who has adopted kids from a very violent family. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility a stray pic on social media could lead violent people back to their kids.

However, the parents of an adopted child or the carers of a looked-after child will be very much aware of any specific safeguarding measures that need to be in place for their child.

However, the parents of an adopted child or the carers of a looked-after child will be very much aware of any specific safeguarding measures that need to be in place for their child.

Which should not mean exclusion from sports or cultural events as part of their life.
It is not about legality, it is about awareness and care for others, and having a grown up conversation about how we are inclusive.

Which should not mean exclusion from sports or cultural events as part of their life.

I didn't say that though – the parents/carers would know of any specific safeguarding considerations and try to ensure the child in their care is not put at risk.

Agreed, but when you get people who take/share photos or videos without even checking, that's when the problems start.

I know you will be tuned into this more than most, but I've seen disruption of placement for this very reason...never the fault of the carers though, always the 'accidental' third party share.

Agreed, but when you get people who take/share photos or videos without even checking, that’s when the problems start.

Absolutely agreed.

From experience, vast majority are either aware enough or sensitive enough to understand when 'challenged' on this. A very few either push back 'because it's stupid / OTT' or because they 'know their rights' and it's very hard to then do anything because technically they're right. But rule 1.

Sadly, if there are protected kids then it potentially only takes one slip up and their situation can get compromised. Hence better overcontrolled than under.

Sad that a question on what camera has to extend to cover this topic, but that's the real world.

Sad that a question on what camera has to extend to cover this topic, but that’s the real world.

Agreed on all counts. But it's a conversation that needed to be had.

If you're going to be taking photos in public then you have to understand a) if you can and b) if you should.

Another view (aside from the safeguarding issues discussed) is that if the OP is planning on getting some serious kit (ie, a high-end SLR and a massive telephoto lens) then people could be expected to be more cautious about their intentions (ie, are they planning on publishing the images? Where could they end up? Are they benefitting financially)? so it might be prudent to be explicit about what will be done with the images. Having art directed a few photoshoots myself over the years, I always state the purpose of the photoshoot and get written approval for image use as described.

Having art directed a few photoshoots myself over the years, I always state the purpose of the photoshoot and get written approval for image use as described.

Do you getva photo of their ID as well....

have a motorwind

Goodness, that's a term I've not heard for a while! 🙂

Being another not-very-good photographer, I adopt a policy of taking loads on the basis that it betters the odds of getting something good. 🙂

Our primary school (school roll of 28!) had an outright ban on pics/vids at one point due to some protected kids. Absolutely fair enough - they’ve been homed well away from their biological parents for good reason and as others say one stray pic on social media could jeopardise it.

Always worth checking with the club/s involved what their policies are. Just common decency really. Other than the instance above I’ve always got on fine with pics of mine at shinty/rugby/biking/whatever.

I’ll bet that’s less common than people just being fuds about it

Asa school governor safeguarding lead a few years ago, for a school in a decent vilalge in a nice part of the world, there was at last 1 child in each school year for four years running that couldnt be phtographed etc for child protection reasons.

A bit late to this thread but I regularly take photos of my lad and his cricket team and have been for the last few years.

Kit wise - you need a half decent camera with a half decent zoom. This might be a DSLR or more likely mirrorless these days. The old adage spend money on the glass rather than the camera is good. Kit has moved on a lot but I use gear that's over 10 years old now, a Canon 7D and 70-200mm zoom. Being honest the reach isn't quite enough but the quality is good enough to crop in.

Cricket is OK on less good gear as the light is usually good. Winter rugger / footie you may need to get some faster glass and a better performing high ISO camera body. I may not be making much sense but this is the sort of stuff you need to get your head around really to get into this.

Your budget would be useful.

WRT child protection. I check with my son's team coach, and the opposition's team coach if there is anyone I shouldn't be pointing the camera at. I'll be honest I never point my camera at the opposition kids but obviously they may end up in the background.

I had one objection once and that was from a father of one of my son's teammates. He was just concerned his estranged ex-wife might see images of his lads on social media. I never put any images on social media but do share the images on a Google photo album with the rest of the parents (a private link only those who have the link can view the album). The parents are overjoyed to see some half decent pics of their kids in action. I just didn't take any photos of his kids. He saw the results and asked me to next time.

It might be worth letting yourself known to the club safeguarding officer.

HTH

Nope I'm not

planning on getting some serious kit (ie, a high-end SLR and a massive telephoto lens)

quite the opposite

But it's a lovely example of how people don't even bother reading the opening post before jumping in with their tuppence worth on side issue arguments that Singletrack just LOVES getting involved in.

53 post on this thread, about 6 of use.

I was well aware of safe guarding thanks, but knock yourselves out lads.

If I may get the discussion back on track, just for a post or two 🙂

Which if you lovely people wants to spec me something for £150 or suggest if I spent a bit more my photographing life might be easier.

I was well aware of safe guarding thanks, but knock yourselves out lads.

Your posts suggest otherwise.

53 post on this thread, about 6 of use.

I was well aware of safe guarding thanks, but knock yourselves out lads.

If I might.

If you were well aware then it would have been useful to say so, knowing what STW is like. OK, reading back "I fancy trying to capture it better for them, their team mates, me and other parents" can now be interpreted as 'for a limited audience only' but it didn't close off in the same way as 'well aware there may be SG issues which I would of course cover with the club beforehand....' could have done.

Secondly - I don't see any of the SG advice that's been given as being unhelpful, just skip it if it's not relevant. And many others may be reading now or in future and not know the situation, so as a reference it's still valid to discuss the issues.

Finally - not necessarily you but some were pretty dismissive - on a wind up, paranoia, being awkward for the sake of it, not seeing issue if it isn't going onto social media*, and people being fuds about it. There's some genuine knowledge on this from both authority and club side, the dismissiveness of some posts creates the situation where more will come in and reinforce against stuff that's been said that is just plain wrong.

* this bit is still worth noting. You might only be doing it for you / other parents, and not putting on social media yourself. But as soon as they are sent or available elsewhere you have no control where else it goes. Many kids have done the exercise in school to see how far and fast a social media post can proliferate, and kids can't be relied on to not post stuff themselves. And it can only take one misstep and someone's privacy is blown with all the implications.

So - again sorry it's not JUST camera advice but this is a public forum and the discussion will extend beyond what you want with no malice meant.

But it’s a lovely example of how people don’t even bother reading the opening post before jumping in with their tuppence worth on side issue arguments that Singletrack just LOVES getting involved in.

And that's a lovely example of taking the hump at people who are trying to help you. There was an important word right before that quote you cropped. You might want to go back and read it again.

John is absolutely right that turning up with gear that looks professional to a casual observer, even if it isn't, may draw attention and cause people to ask questions. It would be prudent to be equipped with the knowledge to answer those questions, would it not?

quite the opposite

But it’s a lovely example of how people don’t even bother reading the opening post before jumping in with their tuppence worth on side issue arguments that Singletrack just LOVES getting involved in.

Sorry but I wasn't meaning you specifically, I was talking about the bigger picture (ahem) of people taking photographs of children and what perceptions may be. I even said 'if the OP is planning' and used an extreme example of the sort of kit that could be used. Sorry if the wording confused anyone, I wasn't trying to take the piss out of the OP.

Our primary school (school roll of 28!) had an outright ban on pics/vids at one point due to some protected kids. Absolutely fair enough – they’ve been homed well away from their biological parents for good reason and as others say one stray pic on social media could jeopardise it.

Same here with a lad who used to be in our Scout troop.

No hump here, I'm smiley faces throughout 😛

Now .... about the kit, techniques and the enjoyment you've been able to bring to yourself and others.

What you got !?!

(Please do not feel the need to express your compliance to the safe guarding rules you sensibly and diligently followed as respectable, abiding, don't wanna cause no fuss, middle aged men who were only doing it for their kids, team mates and opposition's enjoyment)

Mirrorless kit for sports photography generally tends towards the spendy as sports, along with 'birds in flight', often needs long fast lenses to get sharp images. If you're looking at mainly video, something full frame with decent autofocus like a Sony A73 with a 24-100 ish zoom lens would probably do you fine in anything other than really poor light.
Looking somewhere like the MPB website would give you lots of options for second hand kit - I've bought a lot of my stuff from there and never had a problem.
I'm a Panasonic Lumix user, but I wouldn't recommend their older stuff for sports video, as the continuous autofocus required was their achilles heel until their newest release, which is £2,000 for the body, so possibly out of the price range you have in mind?

One other option would be to consider Micro 4/3 - smaller image sensor, so lighter, cheaper bodies and lenses. Backtracking slightly on what I said earlier, the Panasonic Lumix G9 (or even the G80) would be fine for general video work, and coupled with the Lumix 100-300 tele lens, would give you scope for some decent footage. It also has the advantage of not being super bulky, and doesn't leave you looking like a pro sports photographer at the side of the pitch.

Panasonic Lumix G9

Lumix 100-300mm lens

Personally never did it. Despite my own kids and now grandkids tearing up the turf or parquet. Makes me feel a bit uncomfortable actually. Still have great memories of epic moments though; personal and exclusive they may be. They remember, as do I. Nowt to do with anyone else.
Samsung S20+ gives good motorsport pics and vids if that helps.

Thanks DJ

I was looking at Pana GX80 last night and then I came across the Pana Lum FZ80/82 ... a bridge camera with a long zoom and 4k vid and more usefully 4k burst photos.

2nd hand £220ish ?

Coincidently there has been a note on the rugby team Whatsapp group this morning.

We are due to play in a three way fixture tomorrow night against 2 local rivals ... Friday Night Lights !!! ... Fantastic!!...

The home team have asked if it's ok for them to film it.

Hoping to get the chance to quiz the filmer, if they get the go ahead of course, and then watch my lad tearing it up on repeat all weekend long.

The home team have asked if it’s ok for them to film it.

Good to see they are taking their safeguarding responsibility seriously 😉

Yep and they haven't even seen this thread 🙂

came across the Pana Lum FZ80/82 … a bridge camera with a long zoom and 4k vid and more usefully 4k burst photos.

the LUMIX bridge cameras are nice bits of kit - I’d think that was ideal for your purpose. You can always trade up when Netflix come calling!