[Closed] Canyon reinvent the Sinclair C5

recumbent ebike with a full enclosure

Do the windows open or does it have air con?

Makes my sportive bike look aero! 😮

Or wipers? And what about having a soggy seat if you have to get in or out of it when its raining?

Cyclecar, innit?

On UK roads? Hell No!

I don't think you average Yummy Mummy would even notice the bump as they crushed you to death under the 22" wheels of their Q7

looking at some of the images, its not nearly as low as a C5 - its hard to tell exactly but it looks like its not much lower than something like an elise?

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Hmmm, a "E-recumbent" that looks like a shit tiny car with none of the performance?
Or a pedal car for adults?
I'd much rather have a twizy:

When I commuted by bike people where always asking what about if it rains. The concept of wearing a coat or getting a bit wet does seem to put a lot of people off. This is a reasonable solution for some. Doesn't look too bad to me, either. Can see it looking nice in a jazzier paint job.

That image 5lab posted makes it look like a toy - like one of those electric sit-on-top 4x4s for kids.

I really wish people luck with this concept - the C5 was unbelievably ahead of the game, but gaining acceptance will be difficult.

It's just a shame that hybrids/fuel efficiency/suspension developments have enabled stupid SUVs to rule the roads.

I do still think that here in the UK that weather-protection is the biggest thing keeping people from bike-commuting though.

I don't see how it's any less dangerous than existing recumbents nor how the extra wheel changes it's status. As a concept I could certainly get on board with it.

I am, however, more concerned by:

the concept is manoeuvred using intuitive side stick steering where two joysticks positioned by the rider’s left and right hips turn the vehicle through its acute, 7-metre turning radius.

How big?!?

Another ahead of the time vehicle, the BMW C1, with a E motor they'd probable sell loads** if they'd allow you to ride one without a helmet*.

* has a seat belt and protective cage, wearing a helmet increased the likelihood of injury due to the weight of the helmet.

** and added a heated seat!

the C5 was unbelievably ahead of the game

Hols2 beat me to it; the C5 wasn't ahead of the game, it was risable.

Those BMW roofed motorbikes look cool but I've always wondered how they get on in a gale.

My guess is it would end up costing not far off the price of an actual car! I'm actually a fan of the general concept (although I think they've gone a bit OTT on the styling) but to be revolutionary would need to have a price point of <£2k.

BMW (or anybody else) should make an electric C1 with doors, and three wheels.

That would be ideal for our needs.

NB in the picture it's shown in what appears to be a bike lane.

I think the idea is of a small, speed-limited, motorised vehicle that has its own infrastructure to keep it away from cars. Which is great, but would obviously require buy-in from councils etc. Now is the time, though. People are now realising that their cars are causing immense health / environmental / traffic problems but we need to realise that most people aren't going to take up (traditional) cycling.

Designed to seamlessly jump from the street to the bike lane

Well, as seamlessly as you can when the bike lane appears at 90 degrees to the road and directs you straight into a bus shelter. 😀

Applaud Canyon for trying though!

Its got a canopy that dlides like a fighter plane.

Taketh my money.

Unless it is power assisted pedal and limited to 15.5mph then it would be a car and the Twizy has already been done. And if it is power assisted pedal and limited to 15.5mph it would be a bit shit.

I would rather use an electric scooter and a raincoat (if e scooters ever get legalised)

Plenty of e-assist velomobiles, including four-wheelers.
This is the one I like https://en.velomobiel.nl/quattrovelo/ not cheap though - can buy a Twizy for that!

The C5 was genius. Its biggest flaw was the real world (in the UK) expects all transport to mix on the same roads, and there's a race to be above everyone else. I'd imagine driving an original Lotus Elan or Europa in traffic surrounded by Qashqai and the like is pretty hairy. The little flags that made the C5 safer, but look like a dodgem, made it ridiculous... but this kind of project would probably need similar additions to make up for the blind spots of bigger vehicles.

Nothing that Flevobike haven't done already, on cycle lanes they'd be awesome no idea why anyone wouldn't want more protection from the elements, faster cruising speeds and integrated luggage options for travelling?

https://www.flevobike.nl

Once you get away from the conceptuality of using a bicycle on a road and the silly nonsense upright rules these look an obvious choice, especially with e-assist it's make a 40km commute from somewhere outside of a Dutch city into a city centre super easy.

Those BMW roofed motorbikes look cool but I’ve always wondered how they get on in a gale

German student at work brought one across when they first came out.It was shit,heavy,slow,no storage and he hit the deck more times than a sheep on roller skates.Don't know if it was side winds or that he was just a bit rubbish at riding it.

but we need to realise that most people aren’t going to take up (traditional) cycling.

The evidence we have from countries that have actually invested in the infrastructure is that lots of people do take up cycling. Modal share for short journeys in Holland and Denmark is over 50%. Both have similar weather to England (Although are a bit drier then Scotland or Wales)

The C5 was genius.

Did you ever ride one? No it wasn't. With newer battery tech and motors it would be a lot better.
At the time I had one Currys were offering the C5 at the same price as a Sinclair QL, £499.

I think the issue here is that (for obvious reasons) most people are discussing this based on UK roads and infrastructure. I doubt Canyon really care.
In Munich where there is a proper cycle commuting culture and most car drivers are only dickheads on the autobahn it would be popular.
Plenty of electric 3 wheel bucket bikes on the roads and they are easily €2-4K. Although they are also subsidised by the local government.

I doubt Canyon really care.

God, you're right, aren't you. In most other European countries there's space for this.

The little flags that made the C5 safer, but look like a dodgem, made it ridiculous

My recumbent trike has a flag - even without it, I've never felt so VISIBLE not vulnerable. It has a huge WTF factor that just makes drivers give you more room. I may add e-assist and a fairing at some point. Brings more smiles/mile than anything else I ride.

If you thought the C5 was bad,they really upped the game with the A-Bike
I rode one at a bike show,absolutely lethal.
Small wheels = Death 🙂

And if it is power assisted pedal and limited to 15.5mph it would be a bit shit.

It sounds like that is the concept - the blurb says you have to pedal. Why would that be a bit shit though? In reality in town/city traffic you don't do much above 15 mph anyway, there's no point racing to the next lights/junction. The ebike compensates for the extra weight you get from having a shelter around you, and helps you get up the hills (which netherlands/denmark don't really have).

I would rather use an electric scooter and a raincoat (if e scooters ever get legalised)

I think they are different tools for different jobs/targets. e-scooter (which I also think we should get on with making legal to own not just rent) are a brilliant concept for travelling a few miles and carrying on a bus/train/office. This sort of bubble car/bike is good for getting the shopping, dropping kid at nursery, or likely a longer journey to somewhere you can park/secure it. No need for one to win over the other, both concepts would compliment the other.

My recumbent trike has a flag – even without it, I’ve never felt so VISIBLE not vulnerable. It has a huge WTF factor that just makes drivers give you more room.

Yup,I used a Burrows Wind Cheetah for a wee while in London,people did make space for me.Sitting in traffic at bus exhaust level was less fun 😉

Do the windows open or does it have air con?

They mention an ‘open mode’ in the blurb.

It's worth a read.. obviously everything will change before/if this gets to market, but they are thinking through what is needed in this sector.

I have to query whether they mean pedal or "pedal".

A lot of the e-bikes here are power limited twist and go bikes that fall into the same category as mopeds, so can go on normal cycle paths and kind of require a helmet. Pedalling seems to be optional for a lot of them, although they do have them so that, legally I think, they can claim to be a bike.

I am seeing a lot of last-mile pedal assisted delivery vehicles around now. That is something I approve of, but I do wonder how the likes of Budbee will cope come winter. There are no fairings or roof on them, so might get a bit cold for the drivers/riders.

Also... most importantly for Canyon... I've just checked out their urban e-bike range, which I hadn't done before... and was probably at least half the reasoning for making the project known to the public.

I saw one of those BMW bikes crash in central London years ago, as it hit the deck the rear wheel was still spinning which gave it just enough momentum to turn it in to a spinning top on its side. The driver looked somewhat alarmed as he did a few rotations whilst desperately trying to keep all his body parts inside the cage. My immediate thought was I’d rather chance my luck on a bike.

The video says “Street Mode - 60kmh / Pedelec Mode - 25kmh”

So it sounds like it has the option of being both an electric “car” or a 4 wheeled e-bike.

Which would obviously mean licences and insurance (for the UK at least) unless regulations change.

I’d love to hear from any recumbent riders on here.

They will insist that riding around level with the wheel arches of lorries and busses several feet below their drivers' fields of view is perfectly safe!

I'm sure people do give you lots of clearance, but they can only do that if they see you!

Why would that be a bit shit though?

Because trundling around at 15.5mph in that thing just seems to me to be a bit shit, that's all.

I’m sure people do give you lots of clearance, but they can only do that if they see you!

Tell me the last time that White Van Man gave you so much room that they hit the kerb on the other side of the road on your upright?

Trust me, they will see you! And poke their phones out the window to video you too. And wave and give thumbs up. It's a different world. I guess I've just broken the first rule of 'bent club'.

The trike makes filtering in traffic pretty challenging, and it's nowhere near as fast, but boy is it fun.

Those BMW roofed motorbikes look cool but I’ve always wondered how they get on in a gale.

And it wasn’t even original, there was a much more streamlined British bike around before it. The Quazar, from 1982, use a Reliant engine, and there was a turbo version as well, which was pretty quick.

We need photos TiRed.

Ha ha Count Z,I met a lad with a Quaser at the IOM TT,he rated it.The electric Crossbow looks good 😉

Trust me, they will see you!

So bad drivers don't see cyclists (and other cars) because they don't look. But somehow, the presence of a recumbent in a place they haven't looked is going to make them look that way?

I'm not betting my life on that hypothesis thanks 🙂

So far they've always seen you but it only takes one time. A key benefit of bikes is that they are thin, and agile - this has saved my bacon a few times on country lanes where there is just enough room for a car and an upright bike to pass (one incident I can remember was my fault for going to fast, one was theirs). Not least because cars tend to get a bit narrower at handlebar height and narrower still at shoulder height. In both those situations I'd have been toast on a recumbent. In fact I am not sure I'd get up the lane by my house at all on a recumbent even if I weren't flattened. It's just too narrow.

Of what? My trike or me out in traffic? The latter is harder to collect now my Fly12 isn't running! It's an original Catrike Villager made of aluminium and pretty light. It's not very low compared to many, so not very aero.

As for accident anecdotes - I had one life-threatening accident on my road bike with a front light flashing and a car turning across me. I've never come remotely close to an accident in all forms of traffic on the trike. It really is a non-event. Waving is much more common.

A quick Google suggests they are not alone in their ideas

&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Felectricbikereport.com%2Felectric-recumbent-trikes%2F&tbnid=auHyHkZQ-cUmaM&vet=12ahUKEwi9lsXLu8rrAhXJ5eAKHb6kCAcQMygFegUIARC2Ag..i&docid=Yy4SCnBCxZXF8M&w=800&h=600&q=3%20wheel%20recumbent%20electric%20bike&ved=2ahUKEwi9lsXLu8rrAhXJ5eAKHb6kCAcQMygFegUIARC2Ag

What are the max restrictions for an ebike?

I had a quick look and found
- weight < 40kg (60kg for tandem or tricycle)
- power < 250w

is that right?

It really is a non-event.

I've never had a life threatening accident on my normal bike either. Just a few near miss collisions. I have thought about it a lot (and ridden recumbents) and I cannot see how an accident with a large SUV or truck wouldn't have a far higher risk of fatality. A 50% reduction in accidents but a 500% increase in fatalities wouldn't make it safer, for example. I'd take a broken collarbone over being crushed any day. But there aren't enough recumbent riders to create enough statistics to know either way with any degree of certainty.

What are the max restrictions for an ebike?

As jonswhite pointed out... UK regs are probably irrelevant to Canyon... they'll be looking to take the lead in this sector in countries actively looking to make alternative low energy transport work. UK weight limit is 30kg though.

the C5 was unbelievably ahead of the game

it was utter shit!

A windsurfing customer of ours collected Quasars and loved them. He often moaned that all people talked about was the fairing, nobody ever talked about the hub centre steering that he thought was far more interesting.

The electric Crossbow looks good 😉

That does look cool. It also looks like that if you put an AUDI badge on it Will Smith would have ridden it in I Robot.

@fasthaggis. Hell yes. I would ride one of those! Streamlined, no wind, no rain... I just hope they think of taller riders as well as shorter ones.

The C5 was genius. Its biggest flaw was the real world (in the UK) expects all transport to mix on the same roads, and there’s a race to be above everyone else. I’d imagine driving an original Lotus Elan or Europa in traffic surrounded by Qashqai and the like is pretty hairy. The little flags that made the C5 safer, but look like a dodgem, made it ridiculous… but this kind of project would probably need similar additions to make up for the blind spots of bigger vehicles.

FTFY

But there aren’t enough recumbent riders to create enough statistics to know either way with any degree of certainty.

Survivor bias 🙂 you’re welcome to come and try it to n the Great Park. I like that electric motorbike a lot though!

Tell you what... after looking at all the new stuff on the Canyon site... they're the new Cannondale... as in Cannondale before it was sold after the fall out from the motorbike projects...

The C5 was genius. Its biggest flaw was it felt soggy and weighed 45kg with old school batteries and motor.

FTFY