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... is something that is touted in the press every so often. Sometimes it refers to school leavers, graduates or experienced persons. Especially with regards to technical / engineering areas. What I'de like to ask is how many peoples employers offer technical training and have you taken any of it up? If you're an employer do you offer technical training? Are other countries any better?
I appreciate training is expensive to give hence outside of a few big employers it seems very limited. Utility companies seem to offer good training as do oil and gas companies but outside these areas? I work in technical industry and there is zero training offered by the company, nor has there been in any of my previous jobs. I feel mentoring seems to be a thing of the past. I've never received any when I left university at my jobs and despite being autodidactic I feel I have defiantly missed some valuable knowledge transfer. Have I been unlucky with my employer or is this representative. It feels as if many companies are missing out on getting the most from their employees.
Training has always been necessary, college and university course have only ever given the theory side of training but employer now seems to talk as if they expect people straight from university or college to be bang up to speed and to be up to speed as an experience person with minimal on the job mentoring or training.
There are calls to rebalance the economy to include engineering and that there are a shortage of engineers but a shortage with a demand will usually result in a increase in price. I don't see an increase in engineering jobs pay so is all this talk of a shortage of people with technical and engineering jobs a lie? Trying to get colleges and universities to pump more engineering / technical person to depress market rates further?
**** knows
[\brain dump]
The jobs are going abroad
That's exactly why I moved into utilities. I couldn't find practical training enywhere else. Seems like the modern cry from most businesses. We want x but we don't want to pay for it.
I think "job for life" and "highly skilled workforce" don't seem to be linked in the same way they used to be.
The on-the-job training I've had has managed to be barely one week a year over the nearly 30 years of IT.
I'm a professional engineer within the automotive sector - major Vehicle Manufacturer.
We have access to as much training as we want. I can book onto all sorts of technical training courses through the company I work for. I'm currently doing some training that can/will lead to an MSc - via a connection with a local University.
We have trouble finding Engineers with suitable skills. I'm involved in recruiting for our team and we probably interview 1 in 10 applicants and employ 1 in 3 of them.
The larger outfits do. Arup put me through Uni and on more courses than you can shake a stick at. The smaller companies don't. At all.
It's reflected in the salary though. I earn a lot more as a senior engineer at a small outfit than they do at arup. Have got a car too.
Is it just me or does this have frightening similarities to the 80's & 90's education policies of the Thatcher government?There are calls to rebalance the economy to include engineering and that there are a shortage of engineers but a shortage with a demand will usually result in a increase in price. I don't see an increase in engineering jobs pay so is all this talk of a shortage of people with technical and engineering jobs a lie? Trying to get colleges and universities to pump more engineering / technical person to depress market rates further?
During that time I was lecturing in Birmingham and was made redundant 3 times because I was working in media & the arts and the government pulled all the funding and insisted that it went into engineering instead.
Looks like it worked really well, doesn't it. It'd be nice if our current leaders could have some original ideas for a change.......
There's a fear, I think, that if you train staff they'll leave. The solution to which, of course, is pay them competitively as well.
As an IT 'professional' of 20 years, I can count the amount of formal training I've had on the fingers of one hand. I don't really mind too much; if you've got qualifications they want experience, if you've got experience they want qualifications, and if you've got both you're overqualified.
interview 1 in 10 applicants and employ 1 in 3 of them.
To be honest that does not sound a bad ratio for any skilled job. The interview to hire seem especially good.
Arup put me through Uni and on more courses than you can shake a stick at.
I know two people who work for arup and I must admit they both say its a good company to work for. You can tell because people seem to stay
I should say as well that my current employer (been working for them for over 15 years) is a large global employer in the IT industry and as part of our 6 monthly reviews always asks about training required, yet every one of my close colleagues has had every request ignored in the last 6 years at least yet we're expected to support tools that no-one has had any formal training in.
They have a very clever model. Great grad scheme (but not well paid), and that's who do all the work. A few senior engineers oversee and check stuff. Being arup, they charge a lot. Kerching!
There's a fear, I think, that if you train staff they'll leave.
I've herd that one from management, but I would offer the Arup and others counter examples.
if you've got qualifications they want experience, if you've got experience they want qualifications, and if you've got both you're overqualified.
Management speak for too expensive!
I have worked in aerospace for 12 years, and, whilst the graduate and apprentice intake fluctuates we have always had a good number joining each year. In fact, of late it seems the intake is higher than ever. However, what we struggle with is retaining people and convincing them that the technical roles are worthwhile. I am a structural analyst - we have been unable to 'recruit' from the graduate pool for years and I have spent a huge amount of time trying to support placements and offer a good experience. The feedback is always good and, but the response is always 'it's not for me'.
So, my experience is somewhat different in terms of the training, but it appears some jobs just aren't popular, no matter how much you try to sell them - even though people with upwards of 3 years experience are extremely sought after.
I work in aerospace engineering for one of the largest corporations in the world and there's as much structured training as I want really. Just ask and if it's justifiable, ye shall receive. It's a (very) American corporation though, not sure if that has anything to do with it. We also have a large and well resourced apprenticeship scheme.
Also worked for small firms (family run etc) in the past and training has been virtually non-existant. Although one in particular did have a truly excellent apprenticeship scheme which they were rightly proud of (Ipeco)
20000+ employees in the 'direct' company I work for, which is part of a global business which in turn is part of a global monster. When I joined there was personal development training, professionally recognised structured training, mentoring, sponsorship etc etc. Its pretty much all gone reflecting the general fortune/profitability of the company. If a company (big or small) makes money (oil & gas, utilities), it can invest in training. No money, no training, and dare I say, dubious future.
I work for a small (40 staff) civil/structural engineering firm and we push training hard. some of our best/senior staff were school leavers joining at one point. We push staff at all levels from day release for the younger techs to gaining professional qualifications for senior staff.
as a team leader it can be a right ballache resourcing projects but the end result is better staff and more people in engineering.
I think most companies lack the vision to see the need.
we dont make mega bucks but we survived the crash and are busier than ever.
Engineering rates in the contracting market have increased very significantly in the last two years. Staff engineers are generally poorly paid and treated as an 'overhead'. Companies are pretty short sighted, so for staff, there is generally not much training on offer, and a lot of shit for not much money.
Companies are now desparate to get projects implemented, so pay highly for contractors with experience...they don't want to increase staff rates, as they have to do it across the company.
As I see it, there is a big shortage of decent engineers due to companies shortsightedness, so you have to position yourself to take advantage.
As I see it, there is a big shortage of decent engineers due to companies shortsightedness, so you have to position yourself to take advantage.
Become a stress engineer then - so many opportunities at decent pay and very little competition 🙂
I'm stressed already. Technically only a kind of engineer though.
Good to hear some positive stories here, but still seems like there has been a bit of a general decline, probably in lien with how engineering has generally decline in importance to the U.K. over the years.
We have the same in our industry (outdoor centre) - a lack of qualified (to any good standard) and experienced staff.
Larger companies seem to do more and more 'in house' and only 'on site' - so low level training, and few proper practical skills beyond do what they are told.
Many college and training courses put people though base level or training only, and none through driving.
We run our own year long training course and apprenticeship as a part answer, and 50-80% of our staff come in this way.
The problem is that I then work with them for three years or so to get some good qualifications and practical skills, and then one of the larger companies sucks them back in at a senior level 😐
Technically only a kind of engineer though.
Exactly - so the World is your lobster. But the effort of trying to describe what you do to people wears very thin after a while!
Just out of interest, are there any contractors on here? I think the pay discrepancy is reducing, so i was wandering if it is still really worth it given the risk, lack of pension etc.
However, what we struggle with is retaining people and convincing them that the technical roles are worthwhile.
Technical jobs stop half way up the ladder in this country. You have to join the management class if you want the social status and salary to boot. Different In some other countries. At every review I get asked if I want to do management or "stay technical". But if I do that, I won't be doing designing, making and test real things that do stuff for clients. But lots of people don't think like me.
Contractors at my place doing broadly the same thing as me can get 35/ph which is a good chunk more than I get and I've been tempted on occasion but I don't want to give up the final salary pension. That scheme closed a couple of months after I joined and if I wasn't on it Id be off contracting like a shot...
Interesting Guardian article on the issue [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/10/alan-sugar-apprenticeships-britain ]here[/url]
lack of pension
Ha! I dream of employer contributions.
Lots of STEM graduates go into banking.
Roter Stern - Member
Interesting Guardian article on the issue here
Interesting but it only cover the apprenticeship side and graduate training is also lacking. I find the guardian seems to miss the a point there, it also pedals the typical line that a degree in a good subject result in well paid jobs.
The company I work for is currently screaming out for qualified electronics/power/fpga engineers, I lose track of the number of vacancies we have, but it's also a reasonably specialised industry. But I was at a conference last year where one of the main topics of conversation was the lack of talent coming through from the universities compared to how many we actually need!
As for training, the company I work for is relatively small compared to some, although it is part of a much larger group of companies, but training is actively encouraged. I'm currently finishing a short course at the local Uni, and I'm trying to sort out getting some of the younger engineers onto an MSc too. The company has now realised that as we can't seem to employ people already qualified, we'll have to make our own!
Interesting to hear thoughts on the whole.
I'm currently at College studying an HNC in Engineering systems. With the view of moving offshore into the oil industry. I want a hands on position, and to actually be doing things!
I have applied to University for Degrees, but would rather get a training type position in industry.
Despite college having all the equipment, we don't get any practical courses as part of our HNC. Metal work, or maintenance are all separate NVQ's.
I know that down the line I'd like to move into a more office/managerial job (hopefully rig management!) I'd rather learn hands on, and work my way up than have all theory and no practical experience.
Ah yes, the pension. I missed out of the defined benefits scheme at our place. Like most of the recent intake, it's defined contribution. A day will come when the big buck of contracting will win over and most of who they've trained recently will leave. I just wonder how many will go before they decide they need to do something about it.
Simply_oli_y my advice then would be to skip uni, go in on the tool and work hard. I wish I'd done it that way. I'd be a better engineer now and further along in my career. (assuming things work that way in the oil industry)
Oil and gas here.
More training courses tan you can shake a stick at , in house and external.
Going by my office alone maybe 50% staff retention from each new intake
. Money always wins over training benifits and folk chase the dollar
Still dont see an incentive yet to go management.... Take a 30% paycut to stop doing what your trained in and do paperwork till you eyes bleed ?
Onza dog, if he is going oil and gas he will reach a glass celing. Quick unless hes willing to start at roustabout and go down on the job learning at the coal face path and going to uni in later life to progress .. Not one i recomend if you have the ability and drive to get through uni when younger.
We have the same glass ceiling but once you're in the job, the company fund the degree. I feel like I've missed out on a lot of valuable experience getting the degree first. Plus it cost me a lot of my own money.
Depends if he wants to load and unload baskets and mop the deck 2 weeks in 4before moving on to throwing slips and mopping the deck , before being the derrickman, throwing pipe and mopping the pits and shakers, then using his brains alot when hes AD , driller , pusher
Its a different path altogether to that of an engineer.its like being a groundsman then a digger driver then a site foreman. but you always wanted to be a cival engineer designing and doing calcs
Ah, that would be the difference. We run a lot of craft apprenticeship and look to turn the best of the craftsmen into engineers.
I'd be looking to start as a technician Terry.
Preferably production, or instrumentation! But something along the lines of a service position, with the (hopeful) progress view of:
Production/maintenance technician > Lead Technician > Shift Supervisor > Production/maintenance Supervisor > Ops management (rig management)
We have trouble finding Engineers with suitable skills. I'm involved in recruiting for our team and we probably interview 1 in 10 applicants and employ 1 in 3 of them.
That doesn't sound like too high or low a ratio.
My previous company were going through a very transitional time and training dropped out of the radar totally - before reappearing a little for those who shouted loud enough. We had previously had a 1 hour in-house educational talk/seminar of some kind maybe once a month. In 3 years they didn't send me on any external training. I learned the software packages through working closely with my lead engineer and the built-in tutorials.
My current job had put me on several training courses (6 days) within the month I had started to get me up to speed on the software they use (Solidworks - previous job was ACAD and Inventor). We had a critical delivery a few weeks ago.. they cancelled a seminar lots of us were booked in to and brought the speaker in-house for a day-long session the week after. They're also a lot more prepared to buy new computers, equipment and invest in the engineers to get the jobs delivered.
Oil & Gas industry here as well. I work for a global service company and we are screaming for suitably experienced engineers just now. Due to the shortage, all of the service companies are poaching the staff from each other and the wages are going through the roof. It's not only engineers. I work in QHSE and by moving companies managed to land a 30% wage increase and a load of benefits.
The company do have a graduate engineer training program but they take time as new graduates don't have the required practical experience. Most of them like to think they know it all but they are brought right back down to earth when they first go offshore as the classroom does not prepare you fully for working in the field.
In my experience in oil & gas,you only really need a university degree if you want to be a design engineer. All other engineer type jobs can be learned through on the job training and training courses. The main problem is holding on to people once they are fully competent.
I am finding this thread interesting. Degree is in mechanical engineering. Spent 9 years working within the opencast mining sector. Really interested in a career change in my mid thirties and was considering oil and gas. Sounds interesting and I am sure many of my skills are transferable.
"In my experience in oil & gas,you only really need a university degree if you want to be a design engineer. All other engineer type jobs can be learned through on the job training and training courses. The main problem is holding on to people once they are fully competent."
see i think things are changing and i dont think its for the good , sure if you have experiance you can get in on grandfather rights but now my company wont even hire non degree staff for a field engineering roll. There is a corporate policy that certain roles require certain education levels - and looking at job vacancies i see requirements for degree in all but the most basic of basic menial task jobs in oil and gas.
In simply_oli's case i would be looking at opito training scheme where they work in conjunction with operators to provide an apprenticeship in the correct enviroment coupled with paid for further education up to degree level if you wish - competition for this course is tough though due to the doors it opens.
also i agree with the last point. I started as a grad 3 years ago and ive recently just done my break out job as lead project engineer for the whole shooting match.litterally the day after i was approached for 3 jobs all doubling my salary..... tell me why i dont move ?
"Most of them like to think they know it all but they are brought right back down to earth when they first go offshore as the classroom does not prepare you fully for working in the field"
its so true - had a graduate recently who thought he was going to africa to supervise people doping pipe- he didnt like it much when i handed him the dope and brush and showed him how to dope pipe. Meanwhile i was at the other end doping the box connections. (we are not casing hands but we do use a propriatory casing in our completions)
The main problem is that due to the skills shortage in the industry, compainies are unable to find "the perfect candidate" and are having to take on less experienced staff in order for them to fulfill existing contracts. I don't believe that you need a degree for most engineering jobs if you are capable of doing the job. Some people are hopeless at sitting exams but are smart and can do the job with their eyes closed. Same goes for the opposite. I have a mate who is a subsea engineer working abroad and earning £130000 per year. No degree and he joined the army after school. The army gave him skills that could be transferred to the industry.
trailrat - funny you mention the pipe doping with the graduates. I had a very similar incident when i was an inspectors and doping drill pipe threads with a new graduate. He complained when he got some dope on his boilersuit sleeve so complained to his manager that he wasn't going to carry on with it as it was below him. He was swiftly shown where the gate was if he didn't like it!!! needless to say he had a face on for the rest of the day.
athgray - you most certainly could transfer your skills to the oil & gas industry. Get your CV updated and put it on oilcareers.com and see what happens.
More training than I can shake a stick at here, although 90% of it's low budget either internal stuff to get everyone up to speed on how to do stuff using the internal software/standards, or presentations from vendors.
My previous company were going through a very transitional time and training dropped out of the radar totally - before reappearing a little for those who shouted loud enough. We had previously had a 1 hour in-house educational talk/seminar of some kind maybe once a month. In 3 years they didn't send me on any external training. I learned the software packages through working closely with my lead engineer and the built-in tutorials.My current job had put me on several training courses (6 days) within the month I had started to get me up to speed on the software they use (Solidworks - previous job was ACAD and Inventor). We had a critical delivery a few weeks ago.. they cancelled a seminar lots of us were booked in to and brought the speaker in-house for a day-long session the week after. They're also a lot more prepared to buy new computers, equipment and invest in the engineers to get the jobs delivered.
You forgot to mention the final kick in the teath for us UK engineers, you're in NZ enjoying the summer!
Where are most of these jobs which cant be filled ?
aberdeen.
Our company is small 45 of us, we manufacture for all industrial sectors but in particular Oil & Gas at the moment. Company has had a policy for years of taking apprentices with many of them now dotted around the company in key positions. At least 3 of them came as work experiences placements while still at school. Some of them have gone on to study at degree level paid for by the company, some leave (only to be expected). Whatever the the role in a company, training is important to up skill the the staff. That's part of how you keep people interested and wanting to contribute, it's not always about pay but being valued. Any company of any size that is not taking on apprentices is very short sighted, especially at present as they are a bargin. Over the years the quality of those available as apprentices has been pretty poor (piss poor attitude mostly) but for the last 3 years (Guesstimate, I'm a proper engineer) things have begun to change, it would seem that making things out of metal is interesting again and "college is boring with no job at the end" (quote from one of our latest). The company has also employed degree engineers, inevitably with no shopfloor training they are as useless as first year apprentices till they are made to get some hands on time. That's the point some leave as they think they are better than the welders, fitters, painters and anyone else in a pair overalls, those that stick it soon learn who really are the "engineers" in a company and will help them be successful on various projects.
We plan to start up to 4 youngster this year but know that there will only be two left within months. Wrong attitude and you are out, right attitude is key for us to spend time and money getting good people. There are some really great young people out there crying out for a chance and it's important that companies of all sizes give them a go. Also its important that us as employees give them a fair chance and show some interest in them. No youngster coming through and your company will die and after all, who is going to make the teas and coffees?
I shall step down and away from my soap box.
Telecoms has changed a lot in my lifetime. 20 years ago (or so), when I started, there were loads of large established companies who took on loads of sandwich students and graduates and trained them up. Companies such as BT, Marconi, STC, etc.
I was one such graduate and got several years of excellent training at STC (which became BNR then Nortel). However, most of these have either gone bust or scaled back massively and no longer take on large numbers of graduates.
In the last 15 years I've worked for smaller companies and we just don't have the money or bandwidth to train anyone up, so only take on experienced staff or exceptionally talented graduate SW engineers (who basically already know their stuff).
It's a real shame, as I still have loads of friends from my graduate year intake even though it was 20+ years ago.
Glass Ceiling for technical roles?
I'm a technical kind of guy, I like being involved in the making of stuff and seeing projects through to the end so I like what I do. I've ended up changing jobs to stay technical rather than buy the shiney suit and move into "sales", or swallow the semon and join "management". Technical people do tend to be their own worst enemies though as they don't like courses or meeting managment semen-swallowing targets etc which counts against them come appraisal time. At a certain career point to remain technical becomes difficult as your in the HR world of pay bands where HR call the shots (or so you are told); once you top-out on a pay band there is no pay rise they can give you (or so they tell you)... and to remain technical the pay band is nowhere near what you would get as a consultant. So to remain technical and increase your pay comensurate with your experience (and value) you "almost" have to go consulting... which means you get paid well to do the jobs the graduates don’t want to do since they all want to be in management (they haven't found out the further they go up the management ladder the more onerous the semen swallowing targets become).
Obviously there is more to it than that but for industrys which requires technical expertise many are not very good at nurturing technical people. I blame management and HR which are full of chancers, cheats and liers... if you can't do the job manage it 😉
I need to get past the stage where people look at my paper qualification and then dump my application in the bin.
I have a Bsc in Environmental Management, but then I have 5 years experience in the UK in land drilling, working on all types of drilling rig, plus geotechnical experience.
Then I have two years experience in Australia, augering, concrete coring, concrete testing, compaction testing etc etc
If I ever get asked or volunteer to do something I just do it and learn from it.
I find that you get the graduates and engineers coming out from the larger companies who don't know their arse from their elbow, especially when it comes to hands on work.
I tried to get onto a graduate scheme, but couldn't get past the application stage due to not having an engineering qualification, and they certainly paid better than what I was getting privately (at least 30% more).
Whilst I have a lot of experience in the field, I don't have a paper qualification to back it up yet which will hopefully get me higher on on the rung if I wanted to move.
Aberdeens a bit far for me.
I started off after Uni in an Environmental Consultancy (worked on windfarms design etc) really enjoyed it and learned alot but the funding doesnt seem to be there for these projects any more. Currently in Construction and would like to move away from that as its flat on its arse...
There are plenty of skilled Engineering jobs going in the Submarine build business in Barrow - they have a constant skills shortage.
although Barrow is a total dump, it is near the lakes...
You could also try Great Yarmouth. Many of the oil companies in Aberdeen have bases in GY but on a smaller scale. Still a need for engineers though.
I have a technical role with an electrical bias.When I served my time (20+years ago)there was 150+ apprenticeships per year ,across three or four local employers - now there are a handful.
Where I am now, my dept. hasn't had an apprentice for over 6 years!
I feel sorry for the one or two "multi" skilled apprentices there are, as their training is pathetic in comparison to mine.
My training isn't much better to be honest. Everything is now in the form of self read litigation/prosecution protection manuals!
We haven't had any proper "work" training for a long time.
Maybe we should all open coffee shops and tanning salons. 🙁
Oil and gas here.More training courses tan you can shake a stick at
You may have used some software I wrote.
Go on gies a clue;)
I tried to get onto a graduate scheme, but couldn't get past the application stage due to not having an engineering qualification, and they certainly paid better than what I was getting privately (at least 30% more).
I had the same issue with graduate schemes. I've several degrees in applied maths concentrating on fluid dynamics, experience applying those degrees and have even taught engineers, plus a fair amount of hands on work, a lot more than many engineering grad I've met, but still no go. Ended up in a engineering slanted software role which doesn't give me any hand on work unfortunately. The frustration of being desk bound gets to me. It making me consider giving it all up.
Go on gies a clue;)
Pretend rigs. With levers and dials and all that.
IWC simulators ?
Nah im not deemed important enough for my IWC if there is a well control situation im on the life boat like road runner
Yep, and general equipment operation too. I'm more involved on the downhole side but we have people doing pipe handling malarkey too.
I don't worry too much about graduate schemes - I don't see those people ("engineers") or know what they do apart from earning more than me and apparently knowing very little.
However I think the unrelenting pressure on kids to go to university is robbing us of good apprentices - I started my apprenticeship at 18 after 6th form. I have never heard of any apprentice recruitment targeting A Level chemistry and physics students (or even 1st year uni dropouts) but there are bound to be good kids there who would love to be more employable and £60,000* better off by the time they turn 21.
*3 years uni fees and 3 years apprentice pay very approximately.
glass Ceiling for technical roles
It's a sunroof!
If you're a good technician you're far to useful to get promoted. If you're very good you enjoy it too much to care.
You lot are lucky... at least you are working.
Ended up back on "the market" last year after I had no option but to shut down my own engineering company after 10 years.
I'm now either over or underqualified if I get a response at all to applications. I've had the downright bloody stupid too a) you need to be time served with a degree FFS that is two totally divergent career paths and b)you are too experienced!!!!!
I had the ignomony of being rejected outright for a job as an installer with a multinational AV company where I actually trained all their installers didn't even get an interview.
I'm an electronics / electrical engineer (B eng) who specialised in Building Automation / Building management systems and AV systems. In particular i specialised in energy managment. I have 25 years industry experience.
All I want to do is work but what I'm finding is that there seems to be no understanding of what an engineer can do, you have to tick every bloody box otherwise you get binned at application, but nobody is that perfect are they. This is where the "skills shortage" I think is appearing.
Part of the issue seems to be the water being muddied totally by "employment agencies" who all seem to be advertising all the same jobs most of which I suspect don't exist.
The other issue is HR personell having no understanding of engineering. They don't seem to realise that with a degree in engineering you have the ability to self learn a role, you can adapt readily, the "running your own company bit" scares the shit out of people too, they can't seem to see that it also means that I'm intensely multi-skilled.
You need bloody tickets and certificates for everything;
"sorry mate you have your 'inhale' certificate but you need an 'exhale' one too"
Sorry I do.. I have the big ticket - it's called a 2.2 Honours Degree in F....n Microelectronic Engineering! - at least it was, now it seems that a Beng and 25 years industry experience are not worth the paper they are written on.
I just get sick of battering my head on a brickwall, I could cry at times... often do.
Sorry to offload
Bad luck jock-muttley I hope things improve for you.
All I want to do is work but what I'm finding is that there seems to be no understanding of what an engineer can do, you have to tick every bloody box otherwise you get binned at application, but nobody is that perfect are they. This is where the "skills shortage" I think is appearing.
I think this is a problem for all technical roles, box ticking. Not just by H.R either. Many engineers / techncal people doing the hiring want someone with a very similar background to there own and can't see how any one can have their knowledge or closely related transferable knowledge without doing what they have done.
Thanks Brick,
I agree, they can't seem to see far enough into the future to see that an engineer with a different background adds to the team not takes away. I have been brought into projects or been involved in ones where a fresh outlook changes EVERYTHING for the better. I call this the W/XYZ Machine issue (see below).
But its not just engineering / technical roles I'm getting the brush off from it's ANY role.... it's like I have the plague. I just want to work, been applying for retail, public sector, voluntary sector, factories...
...Nyt Nyt Nyt... if they bother to reply at all, my C.V. (which is something I should be inordinatly proud of) is in reality a tissue of lies it's dumbed down that much for some applications - not outright lies I hasten to add just ommisions, after I have heard all the usuals
"you are applying for a £7/hr job... but you've been on £45k/pa, we can't afford you" - job advertised as £7/hr, I applied for it knowing this so why would I ask for any more!
"You will be off as soon as a better offer comes along" - as would anybody
"You have too much management experience for the role" - I read between the lines on this one as "you want my job, I'm very insecure and/or not very good at my job"
"ahh but we use the XYZ machine, your experience is with the previous WXY machine" - I'm wearing blinkers... I'm wearing blinkers..
There isn't a skills shortage in this Country there is a total lack of vision. The workplace and jobmarket is being totally hamstrung by fear of litigation. We are being held to ransom by the insurance companies whose risk assesors with little or now knowledge of an actual role are running hand in hand with training companies to create so much spurious qualifications and certification.
This atmosphere is fuelled by the usual no win no fee solicitors and the assumption that it can't be YOUR fault that you whipped your wedding tackle out and stuffed it in the brush shredder.... after all nobody in the company implicitly told you not to experiment with a fast rotating sharp blade and your genitalia......
ergo another court case, another big payout and another training course and qualification required in [i]"Not sticking your gentlemans vegetables into a mincer 101"[/i]
Where about are you biased? Maybe someone here might be able to point you in a good direction.
Where about are you biased?
Somewhere to the right of Ghengis Kahn.... 
but I'm [b]based[/b] in the North East of England (Blyth, SE Northumberland)
The dangers of a speed spell check!
Jock have you looked a the engineering business up your way..they were a superb company to work for and took guys at all levels
rolls are building a new factory where i used to work in Sheffield get your applications in, the bottom line there is they cant get skills, which is amazing considering there's nor phd s running round there than you can shake a stick at
Jock have you looked a the engineering business up your way..they were a superb company to work for and took guys at all levels
This is NE England there is a lot of Engineering Businesses up here! the two biggies in Blyth are NAREC and Draeger..
Jock, he means EB, or IHC merwerde as they are now known.
Lots of jobs going in the north east atm in oil and gas and renewables.
kevj thats the one they got bought out or (reading between) the directors took the money but i assumed most folks knew them as the engineering buisness
I know they used to take guys from grads and some were there training was good often a few guys would get chartered through engB
confess i'm finding it a struggle myself. 'engineering roles' locally are paying less, 10 or 20% less, than uk average wage. when you read job descriptions they usually want a tall/small, fat/thin engineer who's happy to make tea, redesign the titanic and oversee the build, before lunch, for a bag of grapes and a pack of digestives. meanwhile industry bigwigs wail that educational establishments are not providing organ banks for sector 7G that fit their exact specifications for buttons. my heart ****ing bleeds. meanwhile i'm weighing up whether or not i should take the job collecting litter on the seafront, portering at the local university, or being a technician on wind farms involving significant work away from home for half my former wage. except i'm not. presumably ( as at least the wind farm people told me ) due to the 'high number of quality candidates'. sigh. i just want a job. really i don't care that much if it's collecting litter off the seafront if it's only a couple of k/year less than the technician role, because the responsibility will be so much less, and at least i'll be home to walk the dog before she craps on the carpet, and i won't have to worry about that big propeller falling on someone.
can't find the staff? here's a clue, smart guy. start paying and open your ****ing eyes to what other people have to offer.
I'll mark my own rant. 2/10. mostly grammatically correct and significant shortfall in random caps and spittle. 😳
I'm in the same industry as jock-mutley. I not a BMS engineer, but do use them to make buildings do what I want. We used to employ a couple full-time on similar Monday as jock earned, but the closed nature of the likes of Trend etc and their systems houses meant we couldn't get their software as we didnt sell units for them. No more BMS guys.
Sit tight jock, things are moving in the energy management industry. We are growing at a fair old rate.
i just want a job. really i don't care that much if it's collecting litter off the seafront if it's only a couple of k/year less than the technician role, because the responsibility will be so much less, and at least i'll be home to walk the dog
I hear you... did some temp work inbetween contracts as my company started to go down to stave off the wolf from the door, was at various times over 2 years a binman, recycling centre attendant, school bus driver, tractor driver.
I loved it... walk out the gates or hand the keys back at the end of the shift and that was it... no worry, no pressure, no phone calls from @rsehole rich clients at 11:30pm complaining that their electricity is the wrong colour.
I'm in the same industry as jock-mutley. I not a BMS engineer, but do use them to make buildings do what I want. We used to employ a couple full-time on similar Monday as jock earned, but the closed nature of the likes of Trend etc and their systems houses meant we couldn't get their software as we didnt sell units for them. No more BMS guys.
Sit tight jock, things are moving in the energy management industry. We are growing at a fair old rate.
I'm a rarity in the BMS world... I'm a KNX (Konnex) engineer as in OPEN SOURCE bms with multiple manufacturers like Siemens, Honeywell, Danfoss, GEC, etc.
The protocol & standard (ISO/IEC14543-3) is VERY common on the continent for both residential as well as commercial and public sector buildings but here in the UK the specifiers just ran away muttering phrases like "witchcraft"
Buildings that use it exclusively in the UK are T5 at Heathrow and the new StPancras terminal.
Wrecker.... BTW just realised what you said
[u][b]KNX is open source[/b][/u] so there is no "proprietorial" guff to cope with so if you want to get your chaps to talk to my chaps
Jock, the industry is screaming for it. Trouble is design engineers still seem to specify trend. We have been guilty of it previously, but no longer will we spec trend for any installations. KNX you say? Ill have a look at that, thanks.