[Closed] can someone explain the Kodi TV boxes

@Drac Sorry, I forgot my maths in the heat of the moment!

Like rone says, most people I know pirating content aren't struggling for cash if we're taking anecdotes into account. Mostly they do it because they're lazy or maybe get some vicarious thrill out of doing something "proper nawty", or maybe

don't place any value on the work or the art.

So many false arguments. "oh I'd not have watched it if not for a pirate stream/download". How many times did you send a cheque to the creator because you watched it and went "I'd have paid to watch that"? Don't everyone rush to answer all at once!

Streaming.

Content not available by any other means inc paid/subscription inc content blocked due to national boundaries and news programmes (eg cbs 60 minutes etc)
Content available weeks and months before official release elsewhere
Subtitles freely available

I go the cinema 3 times a month, rent from iTunes and Curzon (£10 a film for in cinema release) etc however streaming services offer a huge amount of content not available elsewhere.

@jamby all this from a man who wants more intrusive surveillance, banning vpn's and more...

^^ yes and yes mike. If they want to arrest/charge me for it then so be it. Also not clear its illegal, selling the fully loaded boxes is.

Music has started shifting to a streaming format thats so cheap people don't really pirate. I still buy all my music but I imagine I am an outlier, only 4-6 albums a year anyway.

Content not available by any other means inc paid/subscription inc content blocked due to national boundaries and news programmes (eg cbs 60 minutes etc)
Content available weeks and months before official release elsewhere
Subtitles freely available

That doesn't give anyone the right to take it, just like you wouldn't raid the B&Q lorry on the way to the distribution centre and take your goods before they hit the store.

Blocked stuff like News I would let pass. I can see the logic for that, but it's still subject to rights/distribution and has a production model that costs someone.

I go the cinema 3 times a month, rent from iTunes and Curzon (£10 a film for in cinema release) etc however streaming services offer a huge amount of content not available elsewhere.

Well it's good you do pay for something. But there are lots of people that pay for nothing in terms of media. It's theft. It's the attitude that they can just have it because it's been made available. I have friends who I could fall out with over this, as I know for a fact if someone wandered into their workplaces and 'borrowed' some of their resources they would go all Daily Mail on the perpetrators.

There needs to be a social stigma attached to this.

It's not theft, it's copyright infringement.

I'm still staggered this is even a debate. Taking/consuming something without the owner's permission is theft. No one on here would condone the same when it comes to bike theft. No one.

It's not theft, it's copyright infringement.

We have different legal terms for murder too.

Federation Against Copyright Theft - I guess some people think it is.

It's not a debate, theft is not the same thing as copyright infringement.

It's not a debate, theft is not the same thing as copyright infringement.

If you're not creating a copy how is it copyright infringement?

bruneep - Member
Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids

The legal issue there is clearly making money on the back of them, still doesn't make it illegal to do it yourself.

As for the post above about sticking it to murdoch, I couldn't really careless about that tbh. 😆

As for peoples jobs and shit. Well shit happens, jobs get devalued as the population deems so, mine has over the year to a point.

You either adapt and survive or you go down. Business models don't last forever. Plus you'll find alot of people that do pirate also pay for content too. The industry needs to open up their content, not try to sell partial bits of it at a premium. We aren't cash cows, nor daft.

If you're not creating a copy how is it copyright infringement?

If you are talking specifically about the streaming boxes, then as I understand it at the moment it's a bit of a grey area, if it is going to be anything however it will be some form of copyright infringement not theft.

Time for the pedants....
If your ripping off content creators have the balls to admit it. Don't go hiding behind the technicalities, you want something that people charge money for and your getting it for nothing.

If your ripping off content creators have the balls to admit it. Don't go hiding behind the technicalities, you want something that people charge money for and your getting it for nothing.

Nicely and succinctly put

Accuracy != pedantry.

mikewsmith - Member
Time for the pedants....
If your ripping off content creators have the balls to admit it. Don't go hiding behind the technicalities, you want something that people charge money for and your getting it for nothing.

I've got no problem with that. The technicalities are just there to disprove the myth of illegality.

It's an odd one and bit like Sony manufacturing burnable dvds so that we could all copy out favourite Sony backed movie. sony wanted slices of all markets.
Most content comes with ready made adverts where we go out and buy the products that are set in front of us, the advertisers won't care whether we're paying for that content or not. This is probably a far greater revenue stream than subscriptions, and yet the subscription services even permit us to ff through the adverts anyway.
I wonder how many of the pay up brigade complain about Wayne Rooney earning 300k per week for kicking a bit of leather around. Sky is not short of a bob or two.
I pay for some services through BT TV, and don't pay for others like the games I can't be bothered going to myself or popping to the pub for.
I pay for dvds if I want a film and cds for music ( a good half dozen this year).
I don't watch crap TV.
I'm comfortable with my decision and watch with mirth at the frothers. 😛

thisisnotaspoon - Member

It's a bit like going down to the local car boot and seeing a fat bike, you've always really wanted a fat bike, and it's practically being given away.

But it's fine, the market was setup with completely legitimate intentions, so no harm done and the law might never catch up with you.

In this analogy Kodi is the Market. You don't advocate shutting downa whole market because a couple of the traders are selling knockoffs. You just go after the dodgy dealers.

I think I'm the same as a fair few here, the odd thing i'll stream but I pay for enough too. Some things I'm happier to pay for than others and I don't put the same value on most stuff as the vendor does. For example, I don't think its worth £40 a month to watch sky sports but I would happily pay a couple of quid for the odd game. I don't have that option though. Same type of thing applies to most films. If the stream wasn't available I'd just not watch it until it came on TV, with some exceptions.

Theres an article in the Telegraph linked to somewehre which quotes £36bn revenues for the film industry and a loss of £500m to piracy. Two things to note: 1 - that's not really a very big loss, I think its a lower proportion than shoplifting in traditional shops, and 2 - most of that £500m isn't lost as it simply wouldn't be watched in the first place.

So, to sum it up, meh.

It's a bit like going down to the local car boot and seeing a fat bike, you've always really wanted a fat bike, and it's practically being given away.

If you're not creating a copy how is it copyright infringement?

Streaming is not sharing/distributing or making a copy for yourself so it'll be interesting to see what they come up with. Of course it's the law so it can be twisted to do what lawmakers want, but I still think it'll be a push. We'll see.

Lost revenue due to piracy is also a bit of a misnomer, sure some people pirate content [i]instead[/i] of paying for them, plenty of others would never have paid for the content anyway.

I'm not saying piracy is all fine and dandy, it is morally [s]dubious[/s] wrong* and there can be legal repercussions, but it's not theft.

*I think [i]dubious[/i] is probably a bit soft, we all know it's "not right" we just argue over how wrong it is

I am expecting this to result in a similar scenario as the music industry. New services like Netflix will expand to provide a more comprehensive service. Current service providers will be forced to adapt or die. Artists will get screwed. The industry as a whole will continue to make money. Users will get a better service. Progress.

I would happily pay a couple of quid for the odd game. I don't have that option though

You can buy a day pass. A bit more than a couple of quid, granted, but the option [u]is[/u] there to watch the game without signing up to an ongoing commitment or paying £40.

Yes, its something like £10 for the day. I don't want a days worth of 8 channels of shite. I want to watch one channel for 2 hours. £2 seems fair. But what they are actually doing is setting the bar so high that is actually a push to the higher subscription fee i.e. it only takes a few days and you may as well have bought the full package.

"oh I'd not have watched it if not for a pirate stream/download". How many times did you send a cheque to the creator because you watched it and went "I'd have paid to watch that"? Don't everyone rush to answer all at once!

I have done. Ok, not a cheque as I'm not a pensioner, but I've subsequently bought things (some times multiple times over) that I've already had a pirate copy of.

Lost revenue due to piracy is also a bit of a misnomer, sure some people pirate content instead of paying for them, plenty of others would never have paid for the content anyway.

I've said this before but, I spend as much as I can realistically afford on media (Sky, Netflix, Spotify, cinema trips, and a wallful of physical media). If I wasn't able to download / stream from illegitimate sources I wouldn't spend more on media, I'd simply watch less. And generally I'll only do that if I can't get it via legitimate sources anyway.

Some people are serial pirates and never spend a penny if they can help it, of course. But the notion that a copied TV show directly equates 1:1 to a lost sale is disingenuous at best.

(Oh, and add TV licence to that list.)

just a quick question to the hive mind.

I have netflix and BBC licence, want to Wifi stream to older tv set with HDMI port and an audio input.

do not want to enter any PP or CC details to register a device.

what box with a decent on screen browser and remote would you recommend?

thanks

More like seeing a fat bike at the market and ripping off the design.

For that to be the case, Kodi would have to be streaming amdram reenactments of Game Of Thrones.

I don't see streaming stuff you haven't paid for much different to watching a bluray at your mates house. Crack on.

@rone speeding is a crime too

I have netflix and BBC licence, want to Wifi stream to older tv set with HDMI port and an audio input.

do not want to enter any PP or CC details to register a device.

Chromecast?

Cougar - Moderator

I've said this before but, I spend as much as I can realistically afford on media (Sky, Netflix, Spotify, cinema trips, and a wallful of physical media). If I wasn't able to download / stream from illegitimate sources I wouldn't spend more on media, I'd simply watch less. And generally I'll only do that if I can't get it via legitimate sources anyway.

I access STW via an add blocking browser.

I still buy bike parts.

You can see how spending money on a TV licence doesn't absolve me of 'paying' other parts of the industry like Sky ( or ST via ad revenue) for access Game of Thrones (or STW)?

(I'm being hypocritical, but it highlights yours)

you should probly edit that.

pypdjl - Member
Accuracy != pedantry.

km79 - Member
I don't see streaming stuff you haven't paid for much different to watching a bluray at your mates house. Crack on.

here we have the real crux of it, it's perception - People still buy stuff, it's not all of us, I really want to watch that it's all the same version of piracy just admit your doing it bnecause you don't want to pay

Do you think it's morally right to be doing it?

The morality is a complex question.

Which I don't really think the entertainment industry has much claim to.

mikewsmith - Member
The morality is a complex question.

If you produce something that is your intellectual property can I have it for free without asking?

crack on, dunno much if i'd call it content, rather than just fannying aboot and a tiny part of a learning process mind you, but wire in! 😆

https://soundcloud.com/seosamh77

Is that becasue it makes it easier for you to take it for free without permission or do you have some other grave moral reasons?

no, because it's a complex question, what is inherently moral about the entertainment industry? (try and answer without ddistilling it down to the poor artist getting screwed, generally that's going to happen regardless.)

You also seem to think i need some reason or convoluted thought process beyond, i can. I don't

The only reason that this discussion is happening is because the TV and film industry have spectacularly failed to adapt to the fact that THE INTERNET EXISTS.

If it wasn't for Spotify and then Netflix making a serious effort to adapt to the new landscape, none of them would have even bothered with the half-arsed attempt they have made so far.

They would be far better (IMO) accepting a larger percentage of a smaller number, than trying to charge a high premium, and then"lock" people out unless they pay. The reality is that they can't lock people out because THE INTERNET EXISTS.

GOT in Australia is a great example - piracy of this show in Australia broke all records a couple of years ago I think. Why? Because the only way for people to watch it was to:
Subscribe to Foxtel (sky) for a year
Take a day off work so an engineer can come and bolt a satellite dish to the side of your house, then run a cable down your wall and drill a hole in your lounge.
Subscribe to the premium package that included that show (an a ton of other stuff you don't want).
Set the box to record it every week, if you didn't happen to be in when it was on.
Fast-forward through the adverts that appear every 15 minutes - even though you are paying for the show in the first place.

Or, you could wait 20 seconds after the show finishes airing in the US, navigate to a website and hit play.

I do agree with the argument that pirating is wrong (from a moral perspective), but the problem only exists because the content providers are looking to rort their consumers. Technology has caught up with them, but instead of adapting, they just whinge because their trough isn't as full as it used to be.

If you produce something that is your intellectual property can I have it for free without asking?

I do agree with the argument that pirating is wrong (from a moral perspective), but the problem only exists because the content providers are looking to rort their consumers. Technology has caught up with them, but instead of adapting, they just whinge because their trough isn't as full as it used to be.

Indeed.

I little while back, I tried to get hold of an episode of something for my OH that she'd missed and forgotten to record. Strictly of something similar, nothing earth-shattering.

After spending nearly an entire evening trying and failing to obtain it through Iplayer in a manner that would let me play it on the TV, I gave up and torrented it in about five minutes.

Whilst companies are so obsessed with DRM and various ways to fox you from viewing something which aired for free 24 hours ago, the Internet is always going to be too attractive a proposition to ignore for your average punter.

If the viewing experience is better with paid content, I believe most people will pay for it. But if you buy a film and it's got 20 minutes of mandatory unskippable adverts, trailers, piracy warnings and the like before you even get to start watching, every time you load the disc, again people are going to look to other sources.

just admit your doing it bnecause you don't want to pay

mikewsmith with the real answers here.

Why not just accept you can't get everything you want? When my Sky sub finished I didn't go out and pirate GoT. I just watched something else.

At the end of the day, media is just entertainment. Just watch something else FFS.

I think batfink's Australian GOT example is interesting and I empathise with people who don't want to install a satellite dish and pay huge subs just to watch one TV show. However, the reasons why someone chooses piracy don't make the piracy any less piratey, or are we now saying two wrongs *do* make a right?

As some have said, you don't *have* to watch that show #FirstWorldProblem

As some have said, you don't *have* to watch that show #FirstWorldProblem

But then again if they didn't constantly ram things down peoples throats through advertising and hype, convincing them they did have to watch the show, then there wouldn't be such a demand to watch things via piracy.

Isn't that basically the "she was asking for it" defence?

curiousyellow

Why not just accept you can't get everything you want? When my Sky sub finished I didn't go out and pirate GoT. I just watched something else.

Except you can get it, quickly and easily. I'd suggest you weren't really much of a GoT fan or you would have found a way to watch it legally without subscription such as iTunes. Which reminds me. I was late to Game of Thrones when I wanted to watch it the first and best delivery method I found was iTunes. I happily bought and watched the first 3 seasons at roughly £1.99 per episode iirc. However, once I caught up with the actual broadcasts I realised iTunes was waaay behind the actual broadcast date so I started streaming it. Their loss.

At the end of the day, media is just entertainment. Just watch something else FFS.

We're in a different era now. As above, this is the time for all access all media at all times. People can now watch what they want when they want and delivery methods that don't cater to this will die.

@jimjam yes, I'm not a "fan". I've read the books several times, I've read the fan theories, and the reason I started watching GoT was because someone I know directed Jack Gleeson in a movie and invited me to the premiere and I wanted to see what his character was like on the series. But no, I'm not a fan because I'm not rushing out to illegally get it on the internet.

Sometimes, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

You don't have to get it illegally. Buy it on itunes.

jimjam - Member
However, once I caught up with the actual broadcasts I realised iTunes was waaay behind the actual broadcast date so I started streaming it.

This is the major problem providers face, they don't actually recognise the model is there that they need to use, has been for years, but they refuse to use it.

They can either see the pirates as pointing the way forward for their business model or fight against them. I suspect the ones concentrating on fighting against them won't be around long term.

You need all content available immediately at a fair price.

In fairness, the likes of netflix get it, with doing their own shows and dumping them online immediately.

They'll get there, but they're very slow about it. though i suspect when all is said and done, you'll still end up with having to pay 4 or 5 subs to get want you want. So the piracy issue will run for a while yet.

But then again if they didn't constantly ram things down peoples throats through advertising and hype, convincing them they did have to watch the show, then there wouldn't be such a demand to watch things [s]via piracy[/s].

FTFY

Two different things. On the one hand advertising and hype is what film and TV makers do to make you want to watch something. It's marketing. It's what businesses do otherwise no one would know about the products they are trying to sell.

On the other hand, once you've decided you "must have it", you have a choice; pay yer money and get the product the legitimate way or get it the illegitimate way for free.

@jimjam

You don't have to get it illegally. Buy it on itunes.

I know, thanks. I think it's on Amazon too. I'm not sure what the point you're making is. I don't stream/download it illegally. When I feel like I want to watch it, I'll find a means to acquire it - legally.

Your rationale for streaming it illegally is along the lines of "it's not available to me when I want it to be, so I'll just acquire it illegally because I want it right now. How dare the owners of the content negotiate deals to have different air dates in different countries". Or maybe you have a different reason. I'd be interested in hearing it.

Anyway, the UK/US air dates have been pretty much synced now for the last few seasons haven't they? Why is it so important to people to watch it soon as it's been aired and to also be able to acquire it in the method you want? Sometimes you don't get what you want. Perhaps we should learn to accept that.

In an ideal world, you'd pay a fixed fee to your ISP which would bundle it several media services. But that will not happen anytime soon, because the ISP business model is to buy the infrastructure and collect rent on it. Internet is so important now, that people will pay for it regardless. They have no pressure to innovate or deliver a better service. Yes, some companies like Virgin are bundling OTT streaming products like NetFlix into their subs, but it will be a very, very, very long time until this ideal is realised.

On the other hand, once you've decided you "must have it", you have a choice; pay yer money and get the product the legitimate way or get it the illegitimate way for free.

Why is it so important to people to watch it soon as it's been aired and to also be able to acquire it in the method you want?

Because for some it's a social aspect where they discuss the show with others and dissect every scene, speculate about the next episode etc. It's as important to hardcore fans as the show itself. This will be mostly done online and can't be if you don't get the show until the following week/month/quarter etc. The producers encourage this part of the shows experience via forums, teasers, interviews, QandAs etc. They drive the hype and build up the show to keep their market share yet simultaneously drive others to piracy by not releasing the show until a later date or as part of an expensive subscription package that is not really wanted.

Meh, my thoughts are that if content creators, create good content, they could still make a profit even if they released it under a Creative Commons Licence. The key would be to ensure it was available via an easy-access and good quality method - we're almost there with that now - Spotify and Netflix for example...

...But DRM still suck's though - why can't I easily watch content I've paid for on my Linux Desktop without having to dick about with browser plugins? It's almost pointless so why bother?

I digress, the monthly budget that covers our access to content is now approximately;

£25 Unlimited Broadband,
£6 Netflix,
£7 NowTV,
£8 Amazon Prime,
£17.50 Mobile Phone contract which includes 20Gb data and Spotify.

So £63.50. At the peak of our Sky TV membership we were definitely paying more and getting a lot less of what we actually wanted.

Anyhow - this is not good news for Sky etc, they are now getting less of our money per programme/film we watch. So regardless of streaming legally or not, the existing media companies need to get with the times unless they want to be like Blockbuster Video. Blockbuster refused to adapt for fear of cannibalising their store foot fall by offering DVD-by-post or streaming; until someone else did it (better).

At the risk of diverting this thread into something useful, rather than endless repetitive loops - I have Kodi Running on a Pi, and I also have a Prime account. Are there any plugins that aren't going to harvest my credentials, and allow me to watch my Prime service that I have paid for? Everything I find seems to be old and have reports of no longer working.

Get a Firestick and put Kodi on it. The best way I have found to run Kodi and it's great for Amazon Prime, obviously!

Yeah. except I've got a spare Pi that I've already got Kodi on in [s]the shed[/s] my wife's summerhouse, a free telly, and rollers/my road bike.

If I'm locked into YT and GCN then that's OK I guess, it's just sometimes wouldn't mind watching some zombies getting skewered while I'm sweating like a pig.

BigEaredBiker

Meh, my thoughts are that if content creators, create good content, they could still make a profit even if they released it under a Creative Commons Licence. The key would be to ensure it was available via an easy-access and good quality method - we're almost there with that now - Spotify and Netflix for example...

I think the future will look something like Youtube - a giant cross platform provider with sub channels created by individual content creators.