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Maybe we should go back to a simpler life, it would be much, much better for the environment.
Got any ideas how to do that?
It's easy to say, but there's a lot to unpick there. Our jobs depend on the consumption that is created by the jobs that are complicating our lives.
Pandora's box was opened some time ago.
680 car occupant deaths per year, which is about 0.1% (or 1-in-1000) chance of dying that way.
.... And that's because cars have become safer - but that safety has come partly as a result of extra the weight and size of modern vehicles.
Did no-one look at the data I posted?
took it from here @5lab:
http://www.bandolier.org.uk/booth/Risk/trasnsportpop.html
The lifetime risk of dying in a transport accident is remarkably high - with most of the risk coming from road traffic accidents. While the risk of dying in a road accident in any year in the UK approaches 1 in 20,000, the lifetime risk is 1 in 240.
Either way - 1 in 240 by car in 2004.
But who cares? Even if your made up figures are right buying an SUV looks to be a significant upgrade on your personal safety.
Maybe we should go back to a simpler life, it would be much, much better for the environment.
What's the criteria for those who will be killed / sacrificed / allowed to wither away?
I balance out the safety of my XC90 by also owning a Mk1 Berlingo that doesn't have ABS and generally has the same crash protection as a wet tissue box.
Either way – 1 in 240 by car in 2004.
But who cares? Even if your made up figures are right buying an SUV looks to be a significant upgrade on your personal safety.
my figures aren't made up, they're sourced from the government, based on 2021 data, not 2004. 20 year old data is useless, as cars are getting way safer. Look at the trend here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain - we're way under half the number from 20 years ago, despite the population growing significantly
lets say that SUVs reduce your chance of death by 10% (I don't think they do, but maybe they do). with a 1-in-100,000 chance of getting killed in a car next year, assuming you're in your own car maybe 75% of the time that you are in a car, you are reducing your chances to 1-in-107,500 chance. That's a 0.00075% increase in safety - which is basically noise. There are way smaller changes that have a way bigger impact on your life expectancy -than that - for example - if you do 2 journeys a day, skipping one of those journeys, one day, would have a 0.14% chance of improving your safety - or a 200 TIMES better outcome. So you could skip one journey, once in your entire life, and still have a 3x better outcome on your life expectancy than driving an SUV every single day.
And if I was a yummy mummy I’d be telling you to gamble with your own kids…
Good point. Best to err on the side of caution and get a F-150 imported
Sod anyone else on the road and especially sod any pedestrians and cyclists its designed to nicely flatten.
Better hope people dont engage in the arms race further and get an F-450 imported though.
Better hope people dont engage in the arms race further and get an F-450 imported though.
pfft. go big or go home.
Last decades MPV now the SUV next APC.
Sod anyone else on the road and especially sod any pedestrians and cyclists its designed to nicely flatten.
Yes, I’m sure that is high up on the designers list of features when they make these things 🙄
Yes, I’m sure that is high up on the designers list of features when they make these thing
I am sure that was a devastating response in your mind.
The slight flaw in it is I didnt say it was intentionally that way but simply how its designed. All the normal cars have had years of designs to try and ensure pedestrians etc stand a better chance. The basic design of suvs removes a lot of the options.
Admittedly most of the studies are US based where the suvs are even more stupidly sized but they all show an increased risk to everyone else on the road.
@everyone your friendly reminder that @chevychase is a contrary troll that just picks his arguments to suit whoever he is trying to wind up.
This is the environmentalist that encourages everyone to invest in crypto, the SUV hater that hates eBikes etc. etc. etc.
@molgrips and @TheBrick - When I mentioned having a 'simpler lifestyle', it wasn't about suv vehicles, it was a comment about just thinking a little more about things we do everyday. I have a neighbour who has a massive porsche, she nips to the shops at least 3 times a day, firing up the stupidly large engine, pumping out goodness know what pollutants into the air, shops are a 5 minute walk away. Other neighbours walk or cycle this short distance. No safety issues. Just a case of rethinking how we live. This is a thread about suv vehicles, my thoughts re how we can live a 'slightly' simpler life need another thread.
mert
I’m afraid anecdote still doesn’t trump data.
Add to the data... have a guess what your average speed is (hopefully you don't know so you can guess) and then check, ask a few mates etc. Have a guess what you think the UK average speed in a car is as well.
I'm honestly surprised with mine ... I'd have guessed higher as I don't drive locally (<10m) with any frequency at all.
Are cat regen failure figures are anecdotal... ???
But anyway.. show me the data showing some sort of speed/miles figures...
A quick look shows
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/uk-road-traffic-all-time-high
British drivers averaged 25.5mph over the past 12 months
Given my actual reading (whatever its measuring) that seems quite likely...
So if we take <30mph being the mean speed, cross sectional area is really not that important... (that is not even taking into account that the people dragging that figure up are more likely to be driving more aerodynamic cars you claim is anecdotal... )
This is the environmentalist that encourages everyone to invest in crypto, the SUV hater that hates eBikes etc. etc. etc.
Very weird statement coming from someone pretending to care about climate change and against nuclear power???
have a guess what your average speed is
Mine seems to be 42mph.
weeksy
Mine seems to be 42mph.
Out of interest what would you have guessed ?
TBH mate i check it about once a month when scrolling through to see my average fuel consumption, so i pretty much knew what it would be. The vast majority of my driving is A roads and M'ways. I rarely travel locally and rarely travel in rush hours, so i'm likely to be fairly unusual.
North amercia centric, but still:
(82) These Stupid Trucks are Literally Killing Us - YouTube
Crocodiles in trees...
as an aside Not Just Bikes do some excellent vids
weeksy
TBH mate i check it about once a month when scrolling through to see my average fuel consumption, so i pretty much knew what it would be. The vast majority of my driving is A roads and M’ways. I rarely travel locally and rarely travel in rush hours, so i’m likely to be fairly unusual.
I thought I'd be higher than I was just based on driving I remember.
Even places I think of as mainly motorway/dual carriageway journeys are lower average speed than I think of them.
An example I just checked google and from home to Swinley parking is 12.5 miles and 30 mins... in my memory this journey is dominated by the A322 between the M3 and Swinley... or that's where I'd think most of the distance is covered but the reality according to google is that's only just under 4 miles and overall its 25mph out of rushhour.
(I don't go to Swinley that often (maybe once a fortnight) but just an example of how I think of a journey vs the reality and not rush hour)
Has anyone mentioned the correlation between SUV ownership and the complete inability to reverse park?
Watching our neighbour trying to reverse park her big, daft Range Rover Evoque (the ideal vehicle to use exclusively for popping to the nearby shops when you live on a narrow terraced street) is absolute comedy gold. After the usual 20 or so attempts, it invariably ends up looking like its been abandoned after a bank job 😂
This seems to be a very common affliction with the owners of these garish, oversized monstrosities
Has anyone mentioned the correlation between SUV ownership and the complete inability to reverse park?
...you should see my wife smoothly back a horse trailer into a tight space while weaving between farm machinery! It'd take me about 2 hours of shunting! 🙂
Isn't the SUV debate becoming pointless as manufacturers badge everything as an SUV? Ford, the second highest selling brand in the UK last year have canned anything that resembles a 'normal' car so all you can buy are SUV type vehicles. No doubt more will follow. So they make small SUV's and huge SUV's, which give a counter argument to any question. The term SUV is now too broadly used to form the central point of a disagreement.
With my work hat on we certainly have to cut less people out of mangled wreckages these days, less gory crashes with limbs hanging off etc but we see more people dying of internal injuries at a later date. Cars are certainly far safer then they used to be but if you go from 70mph to a dead stop no amount of airbags or big bumpers are going to prevent injury.
Has anyone mentioned the correlation between SUV ownership and the complete inability to reverse park?
How quaint. I just push a button and it does it for me 😂😂
revs1972
Free Member
Has anyone mentioned the correlation between SUV ownership and the complete inability to reverse park?How quaint. I just push a button and it does it for me
name checks out
Ford, the second highest selling brand in the UK last year have canned anything that resembles a ‘normal’ car so all you can buy are SUV type vehicles.
You can still buy a new Focus or Fiesta Admittedly they're extortionately priced but they are still 'Normal car' shaped, I'm not sure I buy the argument that you r "Can't Buy" anything that's not an SUV.
Add to the data… have a guess what your average speed is (hopefully you don’t know so you can guess) and then check, ask a few mates etc. Have a guess what you think the UK average speed in a car is as well.
FWIW i can tell you exactly what my average is, 59.7 kph over the last 16 days (new car). Last car was mid 50's, due to COVID and not a lot of long journeys for the first 2 years of ownership, i picked it up the day we were all sent home for 18 months!)
I could also give you a breakdown of time at speed, size of torque requests (brake and accelerate), fuel consumption, distance travelled, use of indicators and horn, wipers and washers, cruise usage, ABS interventions and about 30 or 40 other signals.
I work for an OEM and drive a data logged mileage accumulation car.
There is also a fleet of several million cars that download a limited set of data every time they are connected to diagnostics, and some log over the cloud.
And asking a few mates is still only anecdata
Are cat regen failure figures are anecdotal… ???
A) Catalytic convertors don't do regens B)
DPF regens are just massively over reported, as everything that fails is.
But anyway.. show me the data showing some sort of speed/miles figures…
You've heard of GDPR? Once you can contact me on our internal communications, i can then point you in the direction of the owner of the data and you can find out if/what you're allowed to see.
So if we take <30mph being the mean speed, cross sectional area is really not that important… (that is not even taking into account that the people dragging that figure up are more likely to be driving more aerodynamic cars you claim is anecdotal… )
Yes, i can see that it makes no difference in the distribution of speeds travelled at whether they are driving a high car or a low car.
You can still buy a new Focus or Fiesta
Not for much longer. Late last year Ford announced the end of the Fiesta and the Focus over the next couple of years to make SUV / crossovers instead.
It'll be interesting to see what happens when we go all EV because any normal car style EVs will have better range than the SUV shapes, and everyone is wetting their pants about range for some reason in a way they didn't about fuel economy for ICEs.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens when we go all EV
I’m hoping to see far fewer caravans on the roads 😉
I’m hoping to see far fewer caravans on the roads 😉
Have you seen the torque figures for EV vehicles! Caravans will be getting bigger! 🤣
It’ll be interesting to see what happens when we go all EV because any normal car style EVs will have better range than the SUV shapes, and everyone is wetting their pants about range for some reason in a way they didn’t about fuel economy for ICEs.
Funny that, isn't it?
My only evidence, is you've got to watch small cars when cycling, these tend to be the cars that run me over !
mert
I work for an OEM and drive a data logged mileage accumulation car.
So between 31mph and 35mph ..
There is also a fleet of several million cars that download a limited set of data every time they are connected to diagnostics, and some log over the cloud.
Without giving any personal data are these fleet cars as in company and what would generally be high mileage cars?
I'm trying to rationalise the so called yummy mummy who drives 2 miles to drop the kids off in a 6L 4wd each day before dropping in at the gym and then going home with the 2019 stats from DfT
Using data from 2019, the average car journey distance in the UK is 8.4 miles. Trips where there are passengers in the car tend to be longer (9.1 miles) than trips where the driver is travelling alone (7.7 miles).
and same source
The average car journey time in the UK is 21.5 minutes.
so taking the multiple passengers 9.1 miles in 21.5 minutes I get the average speed to be 25.4 mph...
I could also give you a breakdown of time at speed, size of torque requests (brake and accelerate), fuel consumption, distance travelled, use of indicators and horn, wipers and washers, cruise usage, ABS interventions and about 30 or 40 other signals.
That's well into next level stuff... at this point I'm trying to establish if SUV owners should be punished/taxed/vilified due to the "significant" amount of extra fuel used purely down to their cross sectional area/height.
If we assume the average person is driving at 70 mph most of the time or 25 mph average makes a big difference to drag from air.
@stevextc:
This is the environmentalist that encourages everyone to invest in crypto, the SUV hater that hates eBikes etc. etc. etc.
I don't encourage anyone to invest in crypto. I can see upsides and downsides of it, but I don't encourage anyone to invest in it at all.
I don't particularly like SUVs, despite owning one for it's sporting utility as it's the best tool for the job I need. I've taken a balanced view here - they're clearly safer for the occupants - but I also stated I would support legislation to level the playing field.
I do hate ebikes though. Do I have to like them?
What I think the problem here is steve is that you struggle to comprehend actual arguments - you take a line and decide that's the totality of people's thinking, even when a simple read back up could easily dissuage you of your notions.
That’s well into next level stuff… at this point I’m trying to establish if SUV owners should be punished/taxed/vilified due to the “significant” amount of extra fuel used purely down to their cross sectional area/height.
when driven at low speeds the height is fairly meaningless, however weight becomes a real impact as most low-speed driving involves braking, and excess engine capacity also causes higher relative losses than at higher speed.
its almost as if we should devise a test that works out how un-ecological a car is at a variety of speeds that attempt to mirror typical use and tax based on that.
That vid is pretty compelling.
weight becomes a real impact as most low-speed driving involves braking, and excess engine capacity also causes higher relative losses than at higher speed.
Someone should design some kind of Toyota Prius with regenerative braking to recover the energy lost in typical around town driving, and a smallish efficient engine that is really efficient at main road cruise speed, with some kind of seamless electric motor integration to top up the power of that ICE unit. They on top of that powertrain efficiency, they could go the whole hog and make this thing more aerodynamic to help out at any kind of speed...
What I think the problem here is steve is that you struggle to comprehend actual arguments – you take a line and decide that’s the totality of people’s thinking, even when a simple read back up could easily dissuage you of your notions.
I think you cross posted here, I wasn't the one posted that, I was replying to that post... I don't have any issue with your views on crypto or SUV's etc. or just locking yourself in a cabin and saying sod it..
couple of things from the last few pages i have to comment on.
ford in north america no longer sell “cars”, just trucks and suv/crossovers. no one buys cars.
people wet themselves about range in a way that they don’t about mpg because it is harder to find a place to refuel an electric car and the refuelling takes longer. this is changing
size of cars/vehicles doesn’t seem to be reducing with the shift to electricity, they just get more batteries. this is insane and completely misses the point electric cars are trying to address. but safety legislation does work against getting the weight of cars down. i saw a chevy suv the other day that would make a range rover look small.
i’ll admit that the stupidity actually made me a little angry. that said most families are bigger and larger in north america than in the uk and while cars are getting bigger on the outside, they aren’t getting as big on the inside. the extra size is between the body and the hard bits.
in all though, the world is doomed.
What’s the criteria for those who will be killed / sacrificed / allowed to wither away?
begin with the rich and the stupid and the long-term ill. or something
Sorry @stevextc:
I think you cross posted here
100%. Apologies!
@squirrelking can bugger off instead 😉
that said most families are bigger and larger in north america than in the uk
That's not a major factor, I don't think - that bestselling vehicle, the F150, only has 5 seats.
size of cars/vehicles doesn’t seem to be reducing with the shift to electricity, they just get more batteries.
The US vehicle testing organisation recently released a video of them testing their crash gear against a pretty big pickup with a load of additional ballast.
They had been watching the increase in weight both due to increasing general size of vehicles and adding batteries and werent sure how the cable system used to crash test them would cope if the trend continued.
Pickups sell like crazy in the US because they're not taxed as cars and thus are comparatively cheap in most states. The price outweighed the hick factor to begin with, and now they just are.
But I don't care about these things that are edge cases on European roads... is my electric Hyundai, Kia crossover equally evil?
Depends. Did you have a choice between equivalent car and SUV shapes?
If it was a Kona shorter range model then you did 🙂
the point electric cars are trying to address
The point that electric cars are trying to address is "car companies want to make money".
It would have a lower drag coefficient than your Merc, and a better driving position.
And warranty...
It would have a lower drag coefficient than your Merc
But not as low as my Hyundai.
I could have got a Kona or an Ioniq. I test drove the Kona and liked it, but I got the Ioniq because it was bound to be more aerodynamic.
Very weird statement coming from someone pretending to care about climate change and against nuclear power???
Shhh don't tell my employer!
I'm not against nuclear power, I was against your crazy idea of unregulated/unsafe generation. I was that aghast precisely because I work in the industry.
I did level 2 and 3 modules on renewables and sustainability as part of my degree a couple of years ago, what qualifications do you have in that area?
@chevychase once again you don't know what you're talking about. Ford haven't made it a secret that the "Ecosport" is replacing the Fiesta and the Kuga is replacing the Focus meaning no small cars left in their range. Presumably (and I'm guessing based on your comment about cutting folk out, feel free to correct me) that you're fire service? How do you correlate safety with increased mass and higher centre of gravity? What do you think the outcome is going to be for the safety of everyone outside these higher and heavier cars?
As an aside, that nobody else seems to have picked up on, how much extra VED, fuel duty or VAT are you prepared to pay for the extra road upkeep?
I missed that but I didn't miss this 'I test drove the Kona and liked it'. Dirty man 😉
The new Kona (SUV crossover) has a lower drag coefficient, using Hyundai's numbers, than the Ioniq5. The 6 is very slippery
* Not an SUV (according to Ferrari):
It's so far removed from what cars should be if we desired the most sustainable type of private motor vehicle. Even Lotus is working on a SUV (the Eletra) - the 'added lightness' approach of Chapman thrown in the bin.
Not for much longer. Late last year Ford announced the end of the Fiesta and the Focus over the next couple of years to make SUV / crossovers instead.
Pretty sure they both go this year, any time now for the Fiesta and looking at my work lease scheme yesterday you can not order a Focus. There'll be some stock to sell so you can buy a new one but I don't think ford will take orders for new builds on either.
Anyway, this thread has long since ceased to be a place for debate so I'll leave those left to shout at each other.
The 6 is very slippery
But so fugly from the rear. Looks like its just collapsed
The new Kona (SUV crossover) has a lower drag coefficient, using Hyundai’s numbers, than the Ioniq5.
I have an Ioniq EV, not an Ioniq 5. It's pretty aero, one of the most efficient on the road from what I can tell.
I do really like the Ioniq 6, but I worry that it would be full of bongs and beeps and shit UX like mine is.
@chevychase once again you don’t know what you’re talking about. Ford haven’t made it a secret that the “Ecosport” is replacing the Fiesta and the Kuga is replacing the Focus meaning no small cars left in their range. Presumably (and I’m guessing based on your comment about cutting folk out, feel free to correct me) that you’re fire service? How do you correlate safety with increased mass and higher centre of gravity? What do you think the outcome is going to be for the safety of everyone outside these higher and heavier cars?
I was me that mentioned cutting people out mate but I didn't say SUV's were safer, just cars in general are but there are still huge problems with internal injuries due to impact forces. I also made the point that Ford are dropping 'cars' so you're crossing streams.
Anyway, what am I doing back here?
@chevychase once again you don’t know what you’re talking about. Ford haven’t made it a secret that the “Ecosport” is replacing the Fiesta and the Kuga is replacing the Focus meaning no small cars left in their range. Presumably (and I’m guessing based on your comment about cutting folk out, feel free to correct me) that you’re fire service? How do you correlate safety with increased mass and higher centre of gravity? What do you think the outcome is going to be for the safety of everyone outside these higher and heavier cars?
Nope. Not me. Didn't say any of that. It's a double cross-post.
But a few points:
1) 3% of cars roll over in a crash. Might be higher for SUVs, but it's still not the biggest risk factor - and the stats show, once again, that you're 50% more likely to walk away from a collision in an SUV without serious injury. So they're safer.
2) On pedestrians being killed by SUV's - someone posted about SUV's mounting pavements easier. We lose about 40 people a year (of the nearly 2000) to cars mounting pavements. This is not going to substantially change because: SUV.
3) On the rest - everyone else's safety - I've said before and I've said again, unless you get government to legislate minimum safety standards across the board - i.e. for all vehicles - then it's a waste of time. SUV's are an easy target because of the middle class slightly-wealthier-than-you connotations - but it won't move the dial.
Environmentally? Yep, they're worse than cars. But is any government doing much about that? No. No they're not. Or they'd have to put Bugattis in the firing line too and they won't legislate against the rich.
So, if you can afford to buy an SUV and you know it's safer then you might as well if that's important to you. We don't track the data on deaths from SUVs and I bet it doesn't move the dial much either way. If they're inherently dangerous then the government needs to legislate. But considering smoking is the direct cause of death in 50% of people who partake and the government hasn't banned fags, then I can't envisage them doing anything other than mince around the edges and put out weak platitudes to an issue that might kill a handful of people each year.
the stats show, once again, that you’re 50% more likely to walk away from a collision in an SUV without serious injury. So they’re safer.
once again, no they don't.
Our country is criss crossed with tiny lanes and windy roads that aren't suitable for these suv vehicles in many cases.
Laughingly a lot of townies moved into 'the countryside' during the covid years. Not all, but many have bought ridiculously big, heavy vehicles to get them up the 'farm track, the once a year snowy road, or grassy lane. These drivers are mistaken. I personally don't like them parking in farmers gateways because they won't fit in a National trust parking spot, blocking tiny lanes or just generally polluting the countryside.
Rant over.
My aerodynamically superior estate car is as wide as a suv - and longer.
Are the winding country lanes not suitable for my car either?
What about delivery vans? Should they stick to the towns?
If I'm honest, I think the topic of SUV vs 'slightly lower car' is fiddling around the very far edges of societies issues.
I was me that mentioned cutting people out mate
Ah bugger, my mistake.
the stats show, once again, that you’re 50% more likely to walk away from a collision in an SUV without serious injury. So they’re safer.
1) You're literally arguing with physics at this point.
2) That's a rather sociopathic stand to take. Presumably you don't care about anyone else's safety outside of your metal box.
3) Your stats may well be wrong if 5lab is correct.
Have we got onto those absolutely ridiculous HUGE pickups yet? Dodge Ram and Ford Rangers, stupidly big things!!
roads are optional, as is parallel parking
I like them. 4wd helps me. Better height is nicer. They tend not to have moronic thin tyres on whopping rims. So ride is better. Only a cretin exceeds the speed limit so that isn't an issue.
Fuel consumption is my business.
If only I could find the info that may years ago informed that well over 90% of car/pedestrain collisions were pedestrians fault> As opposed to cycles wheere it was nearly toehr way around!
You really think a Sportage or a Kuga is a status symbol to people ? I’m not convinced…
Yep. My OH says that she loves everything about her car except the badge.
She's got a top spec 2.0d AWD Sportage.
If I’m honest, I think the topic of SUV vs ‘slightly lower car’ is fiddling around the very far edges of societies issues.
Yes, but its an easy choice to make for most people, really.
Fuel consumption is my business.
No, it definitely isn't, and this attitude is a huge problem.
Yes, but its an easy accusation to make for most people, really.
FTFY
@molgrips, on fuel:
No, it definitely isn’t, and this attitude is a huge problem.
Y'see, I used to live in your utopian space where I thought people were going to make the right decisions out of sheer sensible good-natured-ness. I even have a degree in Environmental Management to show for it.
Over the years I've hugely reluctantly come to the horrible realisation that it's 100% up to Governments to legislate if anything meaningful is going to happen. For the few people who bother to do the right thing, there's a raft of people waving their excess (and seemingly excess happiness) in their faces.
Wishful thinking is just that. Legislation is the only recourse.
On @mrmonkfinger's point about his car being bigger than most SUVs - absolutely. My Volvo V60 is wider than my Honda CRV too.
This is not about car size. It's about height and visibility - it's about jealousy of people perceived to have more money (because they do indeed come at a premium).
@bunnyhop - on your points - I live at the very end of one of those windy country lanes. It's absolutely suitable for SUVs - only one car can travel along it at a time anyway - so if you're in a 2CV, a Humvee or a Luton Van then that's the job. I'm also very happy with my SUV today because my car wasn't capable of getting me out of here to go to the shops because of the snow, but the SUV was - and safely. (And last time it snowed, it was on the ground at this altitude for a week).
The height of my SUV is extra useful from a safety point of view because I can see over the dry stone walls and the high hedges that I can't see over in cars - so I've a much much better view of other cars, pedestrians (it's a walker's paradise) and cyclists - all of which I come round a corner and either surprise, or am surprised by in the car.
The farmers tool around in their mahoosive tractors pulling trailers jammed full of sheep and cows, or with flatbeds and 20ft high stacks of hay bails in the summer - these heavy vehicles are clearly much bigger than SUVs and they seem to manage on single track lanes just fine.
It's the cows, man. Blocking the road back from the shops, shitting everywhere. The cows!!
Nope. This anti-SUV thing is really about one thing: Jealousy.
I've sympathy for the environmental points - I really really am. But respectfully, you can all jog on. 🙂 You hate them because it's popular to hate them and a bandwagon has very firmly been jumped on. It's just like reading a Daily Fail article about how cyclists are a "menace" ...
🙂
I’m also very happy with my SUV today because my car wasn’t capable of getting me out of here to go to the shops because of the snow, but the SUV was – and safely. (And last time it snowed, it was on the ground at this altitude for a week).
Sounds like a really terrible car.
The suv doing pirouettes in the snow under braking Infront of me yesterday appeared to be capable of not alot let alone going to the shops.
Tires make the car move and stop not putting it on stilts not making it fauxbyfaux.
Nope. This anti-SUV thing is really about one thing: Jealousy
Genuine question.. Jealousy of what exactly?
People with/affording SUVs?
I personally think they are daft for,ooh, 90% of cases. A stupid status symbol.
Could I afford one? Absolutely.
Do I want one? Absolutely not
DrP
I’m also very happy with my SUV today because my car wasn’t capable of getting me out of here to go to the shops because of the snow
Wait until you find out about winter tyres or even all season ones. It will be a revelation.
these heavy vehicles are clearly much bigger than SUVs and they seem to manage on single track lanes just fine.
And those which arent quite single track? Although I have seen several cases where they have had difficulty even with a passing spot getting past some suv whereas a normal car it would have been easy enough.
Nope. This anti-SUV thing is really about one thing: Jealousy.
Ah yes of course. Keep telling yourself everyone looks at you in awe and envy. I went for a walk at lunch past showrooms for ferraris, astons and mcclarens but I just laughed and thought where are the crvs. Since thats what I truly aspire to.
I do wonder if you are failing poes law but I suspect you are just the classic suv driver who is actually deluded enough to think everyone is jealous and sits there patting themselves on the back about how safe they feel whilst in reality the actual safety gains for them is minimal whereas the increased risk to others is far greater.
My 15 year old LOWERED Skoda Octavia has crossclimates on all 4 corners....
Can traverse snowy Brighton streets, or muddy enduro race fields with ease!
DrP
Sounds like a really terrible car.
Not at all - just one that's not particularly suited to the ground clearance needed around here. It's suited to long motorway miles. It's low-profile tyres don't deform like the tyres on the SUV. I *could* have got it up the lane, but why bother when I've got a better tool for the job?
The suv doing pirouettes in the snow under braking Infront of me yesterday...
...was being driven by someone who doesn't know how to drive in snow?
Genuine question.. Jealousy of what exactly?
Of people with "more money than they need". SUVs have an image of being owned by Chelsea mums, the Cheshire Set, the middle-class who "don't bloody need that sort of car".
Like most of these things - it's not rational. It's just a load of jealous **** about an imagined type of person who's "better off" and who swan around having a nicer life without having to work at the millstone like everyone else.
You yourself acknowledge this - a "stupid status symbol". I have one for it's sporting utility. My sister, who definitely doesn't need one and would definitely fall into other people's perception of "status symbol" wants to feel safe and being higher up makes her feel safe (regardless of whether it is or not - does that matter if it makes you feel safe?). My brother in law? He doesn't need one. He wants the status symbol - and he can afford to spunk £100k on a range rover - when I'd take that money and invest it. But each to their own.
Jealousy is the prime problem. I'll stand by it until someone can give me a very good reason otherwise.
Nope. This anti-SUV thing is really about one thing: Jealousy.
As arguments go that's pretty crass. You really think I want one? I could buy the biggest fattest **** off SUV on STW but a Zoé fit my needs better. People like to think other people are jealous because it makes them feel better about themselves - check out the psychology of it. So rather pouring scorn on people rationally objecting to SUVs in urban environments think about your own complexes and how you might free yourself of them.
@dissonance - you appear to be suffering the cognitive failure associated with your name:
And those which arent quite single track? Although I have seen several cases where they have had difficulty even with a passing spot getting past some suv whereas a normal car it would have been easy enough.
So, the tractors I spoke about would still have the same issue? And many SUVs are smaller than many cars. They just look bigger - as attested multiple times on this page by differrent people.
So what's the beef about size again? You live in the country and they're really annoying you are they? Nobody round here seems to care. Like I said - it's the cows that hold me up, not the holidaymakers.
Ah yes of course. Keep telling yourself everyone looks at you in awe and envy
I don't really care how people see me personally. I never saw cars as status symbols, or as a reflection of someone's wealth - because I know chavs get themselves into hock to get "nice" cars, and I know plenty of rich people who knock about in old bangers. But there's undoubtedly an image issue with SUVs and an income-lifestyle paradigm that people take a bit of chagrin at.
As arguments go that’s pretty crass. You really think I want one?
No. You don't have to be jealous of the car to make an imaginary determination about the type of person who drives those cars.
And we all hate SUV drivers and owners around here it seems. And we all seem to know why they've got SUVs, that they don't really need them, do they? And they're much bigger than cars (despite many cars being bigger).
It's all just childish tribal rubbish, like the Daily Fail and cyclist hate. When you look closely, it's just another form of that.
rather pouring scorn on people rationally objecting to SUVs in urban environments
I don't think it's a rational objection because it doesn't stand up to basic sensible thought.
I've lived 45 of my 49 years in urban environments and cities. They were never a problem when I lived there. It's perception, nothing else.
IF you're rationally objecting to SUVs in urban environments - what are these people supposed to do when they leave the urban environment, pack their kids and (maybe!) bikes/kayaks/sporting equipment - and leave the "urban" environment.
Are they supposed to run two cars - one for towns, one they're only allowed to use if they leave towns?
Should my sister not be allowed to feel the safety of being high up and being able to see?