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@BillOddie I accidentally rented an Escalade / Suburban in Vancouver for a road trip we did a few years ago. To my total astonishment over about 1500 miles it and its 5.7Litre barn-door-engineered V8 was more economical (27uk mpg) than our T5 and not that far behind the kodiaq. It was assembled in that uniquely American superficial way and somewhat dangerous should you attempt to negotiate any sort of corner. Oddly endearing though.
I have a Subaru Forrester which falls firmly into the SUV category. I love it, the extra height does give a feeling of being more aware as to whats coming up on the road or being able to see what other drivers are doing ahead.
I also have a Model S which is super low down in comparison and whilst it's a beautiful drive, i do miss that extra visibility.
The extra few inches comes in handy too when on bad roads or double track. I don't like the sound of the underside of my car scraping on the floor!
Give one you like the look of a try, you never know you may be turned.
IMO , it certainly outweighs the “what happens if you hit a pedestrian / bike / small vehicle” argument , as you are more likely to see them in the first place, and being a “bigger” vehicle, they should be able to see you easier themselves.
Probably jinx myself now, but i have managed not to hit any pedestrians / cycles in the last 30 odd years because…a) I don’t drive like a w****r
b) I tend to look all around as I drive and try to anticipate what others are going to do.
What we need to do is even up the odds a bit by offering all pedestrians and cyclists an AR15 and about 10 hours training at age 17 on how to use a water pistol, upon which an allowance to purge anyone in a car whether the car driver consented to playing the game or not. Seems entirely proportionate to me given that's basically the same power the current system gives people in cars.
On balance I'd definitely prefer an estate (although I'm not sure how my old Volvo 940 would stack up from a size/environmental impact point of view). I've also had a Forester (a great car) in the past that was actually smaller than the 940...
At the moment it is surprisingly difficult to actually order hybrid estates so I've ended up ordering a Mazda CX60 as a company car. I'm feeling a bit conflicted but for balance we also have a 20 year old Cooper S. I'll also endeavour not to drive like a ****.
I was always wary of SUVs and 4x4s, but last month our car of 11 years died, and we were left hunting a new car ASAP and no transport to go to big places. Our choice was either a Fiesta, or a Kuga, in our budget and available then, we went Kuga as we do family trips to Scotland, Devon and elsewhere.
Have to say i love the Kuga now, i have a duff hip, to be replaced soon, right knee is also knackered, so the elevated position is nice, and i have it all the way down as well. It's not as big as it looks when driving, plus it's easy to drive, went from a VW Golf GTD to this and enjoying it more!
Yes, they are everywhere, yes there are loads who can't drive properly, but that's not an SUV thing, that's a driver thing, every day i see people in picanto's, micra's, etc who just have no clue about spacial awareness for their vehicle, no real confidence at junctions/roundabouts/etc, and quite a few i'd say maybe shouldn't be driving anymore.
that’ll be covered by the additional fuel duty you have paid
Not if that car is only used for short journeys. There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.
I’d like to see one that could pull my 2.5 ton boat
Let's be honest here very few if any SUVs will have the towing capacity to do that legally (especially when you add a trailer)! And the ones that do probably aren't even SUV's anyway.
There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.
Yes this definitely.
Not if that car is only used for short journeys. There should be a penalty for ownership/resource use regardless of how far it moves.
you mean like VED / "Road Tax"?
One thing my mum mentioned when they got an SUV, night driving is way better.
It's pretty uncomfortable in my old 944 and our old Astra, with all the laser beams that cars seem to have for headlights now.
The work transit connect is better. The transit custom I had was great. Almost never blinded by daft headlamps.
Yes, but tied to weight, not emissions. That way even if it’s an EV you’re paying for the impact of its creation and use.
The heavier it is, the more you pay. The scale should be exponential.
Exemptions for those with disabilities. Otherwise full rates for everyone even if you need it for work. Pass the cost onto your customers.
All taxes go into maintenance of current infrastructure and development of new, sustainable infrastructure only.
For ‘improves visibility’ read ‘blocks everyone else’s visibility, but I’m selfish so I don’t care’.
I believe that SUVs were invented in the US for tax reasons.
I dont like how the look, but different people like different things i guess.
Years ago, they were stupid because they were inefficient proper 4x4, and not designed with crash safety in mind. People jollying around in Range rovers pretending they were essex gangsters or farmers were the minority though.
Now a days is much more blurry. I really want to hate the rangerover evoque, but in reality its not that much bigger than a mini, availible in 2WD (and im not crawling around on the floor to identify which ones i dislike more), can do 47mpg. 5 star N Cap, pedestrian airbags and body catching bonnet as standard on all models.(Autoexpress, Nov 2022). THere isnt that much to hold against them, other than the bad attitude of an aspiring wAG
A hair dressers car but i can see why they like them.
Probably better on every metric (emmissions, safety, road wear and tear) than many fast estates, which you or I wouldnt bat an eyelid at (and would prefer to own)
I ride a bike everywhere, and im sure that makes loads of other road users think im a....
Yes, but tied to weight, not emissions. That way even if it’s an EV you’re paying for the impact of its creation and use.
The heavier it is, the more you pay. The scale should be exponential.
Exemptions for those with disabilities. Otherwise full rates for everyone even if you need it for work. Pass the cost onto your customers.
All taxes go into maintenance of current infrastructure and development of new, sustainable infrastructure only.
Lets play that out a little;
Ford mondeo kerb weight : 1615 kg
Ford Kuga Kerb Weight : 1,564kg.
So the estate car would cost more to tax than the SUV... How about you just change it to "Just tax other people more than me" 🙄
Ford mondeo kerb weight : 1615 kg
Ford Kuga Kerb Weight : 1,564kg.
So the estate car would cost more to tax than the SUV…
Because it weighs more..... Both 2WD, Mondeo probaby putting down more HP onto the road. whats the problem?
you proposing to tax SUVs just cause you dont like them?
I dont like them either, but theres no logic behind it.
One thing my mum mentioned when they got an SUV, night driving is way better.
It’s pretty uncomfortable in my old 944 and our old Astra, with all the laser beams that cars seem to have for headlights now.
The work transit connect is better. The transit custom I had was great. Almost never blinded by daft headlamps.
Trouble is, you've just made it worse by raising your headlights up even higher so even if they were aimed horizontally, they're now catching even more normal cars.
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Trouble is, you’ve just made it worse by raising your headlights up even higher so even if they were aimed horizontally, they’re now catching even more normal cars.
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eh? How's that work then, headlights aren't horizontal? I assumed that the excess glare off some hid/led lights was due to slow response of the self levelling mechanism, or perhaps dirty lenses.
Indeed tinas, but it's someone else's problem, not theirs, so they don't give a shit.
Pretty sure missaligned headlights isn't exclusively an SUV problem (except on STW)....
Ford mondeo kerb weight : 1615 kg
Ford Kuga Kerb Weight : 1,564kg.
Wrong comparison. Kuga is a C-segment car, equivalent to a Focus (also C-segment) not a Mondeo (D-segment = large family car)
Ford Focus Estate weight: 1,383kg
Although saying that, Mrs a11y's 2017 Qashqai 1.5dCi - also C-segment and a Kuga rival/equivalent - is quoted as 1,400kg. Possibly explains why I average >50mpg every time I drive it for mixed driving. Fairly impressive mpg but I can't help thinking how much more impressive mpg would the equivalent non-SUV hatchback do.
How’s that work then, headlights aren’t horizontal?
Easy, they start from a higher point so cause glare further into the distance. Compounded by people not knowing how to adjust them (not all cars have self levelling lights).
Let’s be honest here very few if any SUVs will have the towing capacity to do that legally (especially when you add a trailer)! And the ones that do probably aren’t even SUV’s anyway.
I am looking into something to tow 3+ton and I am amazed at how many suv / pickups can't tow this. All these big (by UK standards) pickups and they are not to tow the max allowable.
Ford mondeo kerb weight : 1615 kg
Ford Kuga Kerb Weight : 1,564kg.
So the estate car would cost more to tax than the SUV
My diesel Mondeo estate costs £30 per year tax
I have a toyota RAV4 coming and I cannot wait. 1st SUV.
it will be the ideal family car for us. The s max is getting on and is very thirsty. New s maxes no better really as not properly hybridised.
The rav4 is a plug in that toyota say can do 60miles to a charge (journalist I watched did 54, official Inc motorway is 46) I can get 3 kids in which we couldn't comfortably do in an e class, so an SUV became the obvious choice
All taxes go into maintenance of current infrastructure and development of new, sustainable infras
tructure only.
Spunked up the wall on vanity projects more likely
.
Trouble is, you’ve just made it worse by raising your headlights up even higher so even if they were aimed horizontally, they’re now catching even more normal cars.
I'd say it's more about the position of the driver, as to how badly dazzled you get.
On the way back from BPW the other day and it was mostly minis that seemed to be trying to melt the paint off my car with their lights. In an SUV or a Van, it'd be much less of an issue as I'd be sat higher up, maybe I should drive standing out the sunroof.
Problem is these days that the term SUV covers so many different sized cars, in most of the segments to the point where most arguments are redundant.
100%
A mokka is not a range rover. And thus every comparison using the category of SUV is almost meaningless without the exact models described and compared. And even then it's personal choice.
I don't like estates, simply too low - I like my legs to not be straight out like I'm in a wheel barrow.
We have a new Citroen EC4 EV job. It's a hatch, it's a SuV, it's a crossover! I do hit my head on the grab rails and that's annoying.
I love my kodiaq too, it's massive and good for work kit lugging. 2065L seats down size beats the *majority* of estates too.
Its simple. They should be banned for joe public to use without a special licensed legitimate need. The fact that they now account for almost half of new car sales is a travesty and failure of legislation by the government and gross negligence on behalf of the planet by the car industry. The majority of braindead consumers cant be trusted to make responsible decisions beyond their own vapid self interest.
Was given a brand new Sportage as a courtesy car last week, it was the naffest thing I've driven since the last time I reluctantly was given a rented SUV - it was so disgusting I looked in to its stats to find out why. It needs 180bhp to shift its considerable bulk (the smallest engine its specced with) at a sluggish pace that could otherwise be achieved with 100bhp in a sensibly sized car; did under 25mpg, and was about as involving and pleasurable to drive as a tumble drier. Rubbish visibility, awkward to park, just generally vulgar. Personally am a fan of fine motorcars, an interest which is slowly dwindling with the times- would rather drown in a pool of my own vomit than own anything close to a modern SUV.
Edited
Actually - I'm not going to bother with this pointless argument so deleted my comment
They should be banned for joe public to use without a special licensed legitimate need.
Based upon what ?
We have a Mazda CX5 petrol
Does low 40s MPG, Comfy, lots of rooms for gear/bikes/stuff.
Known to be pretty reliable.
Yeah, we could have got a mazda estate. They have the same MPG figures and same CO2 emissions (give or take 1 G/Km). They aren't as plentiful to find for sale second hand - and if you are anti SUV but buying brand new vehicles then you need to rethink your stance on how environmental that really is.
We also like the increased height for view, ground clearance and loading/unloading.
Could we get away with a 25yr old 1.0 petrol yaris? Yeah, probably. Along with 90% of other journeys and people could, even chucking it into a garage for every issue it would still work out cheaper than depreciation on a new supermini eco box.
But people like nice shiny new things, so reality is we aren't all running around in reliable old cars. Consumerism innit.
Realistically I have a 25yr old CB500 I commute on, but I could do that on a 125 which would be more eco/planet saving. But the 500 is a nicer thing to be on, and I'm happy with that compromise.
It's all down to personal preference, and all this nonsense about banning them/penalising them somehow is ridiculous, in my opinion.
They should be banned for joe public to use without a special licensed legitimate need.
Don't be daft.
So the estate car would cost more to tax than the SUV… How about you just change it to “Just tax other people more than me” 🙄
I have an EV and a heavy 1.8t, 20y old BMW 3.0 petrol estate in which I drive maybe 2000miles a year. How is my comment in any way asking for other people to pay more TAX than me? My cars are heavy and don't get used much and I'm saying we should tax based on weight, not use!
the smallest engine its specced with
There is a 113bhp mild hybrid available (1.6 CRDi ISG 2WD) Here
did under 25mpg
The 148bhp version you drove has combined figures of 42.2mpg so either they are lying, or you were driving uphill into a headwind with a full load in the wrong gear and with your foot down.
They shouldn't be banned. Tax disincentives, especially those applied in single lump sums are substantially effective. Many people chose a car based at least partially on VED. It's miniscule in the grand scheme, but its very visible and easily understandable. Scale that and you'll see a massive difference in who choses to run a luxury car regardless of environmental damage or need.
EDIT my VED for my 3.0 Petrol BMW is £380 a year. It costs me 4p/mile just in VED Tax!
We have;
Xc90
V70
Peugeot Partner (Berlingo)
I'm covering all STW car of choice possibilities.
* They have 515k miles between them.
PCP--I bet if everyone had to pay ££££££ up front, or get a cash loan like olden times, no-one would be splashing the £40k+ on these monsters, they are a total menace on the roads, and with more of the SUVs being EVs it's going to get worse as the things keep ballooning in size to swallow up those massive batteries and EVs are the direction of travel... 🙁
johndoh
The 148bhp version you drove has combined figures of 42.2mpg so either they are lying, or you were driving uphill into a headwind with a full load in the wrong gear and with your foot down.
"Car not achieving MPG from test conditions shocker, more at 11" 🙂
Honest John has the "1.6T GDI 174 AWD" at 28mpg, 25mpg is entirely believable given variation of traffic conditions.
This is why it should be a weight Tax - bigger battery - more tax. Leather interior - more tax. Full panoramic glass sunroof - more tax.
I too want ALL these things, but I'd be forced into deciding what's best if I had to continually pay for them....
Car not achieving MPG from test conditions shocker, more at 11
Perhaps not achieving claimed figures but they are usually around the correct figures. I don't accept that endoverend's claim of 25mpg is the truth when the official figures have a low figure of circa 35mpg. Perhaps it was stated to suit their narrative?
I think manufacturers figures are also claimed on the base car are they not? So by the time you pack it with electric seat, sunroof, leather, big wheels LED Matrix headlights, etc you can easily increase the weight by a couple of hundred kilos and affect the drag.
Perhaps not achieving claimed figures but they are usually around the correct figures. I don’t accept that endoverend’s claim of 25mpg is the truth when the official figures have a low figure of circa 35mpg. Perhaps it was stated to suit their narrative?
long term average on our zafira is 50mpg. official number is 70mpg. it depends a lot on how and when you use the car.
our use matches long term test here https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/cars/reviews/our-fleet-vauxhall-zafira-tourer-sri-nav-16cdti-ecoflex-company-car-review-f as well as realmpg
Perhaps not achieving claimed figures but they are usually around the correct figures. I don’t accept that endoverend’s claim of 25mpg is the truth when the official figures have a low figure of circa 35mpg. Perhaps it was stated to suit their narrative?
IME the urban figure is basically what you'll get on average over a full tank with a mix of driving. The extra urban is presumably drafting a lorry at 50mph. And it only gets worse for mixed driving in modern small displacement + turbo engines. On the motorway my hire Vauxhall something-cross-latte* it got 52mpg which seemed good for a petrol. But as soon as you had to do any accelerating it was abysmal. Presumably the engine is sized to work in NA mode at a steady <70mph and only a computer on a rolling is capable of accelerating smoothly enough to never have the turbo kick in.
*it was a debadged version so i presume it's something embarasing
They should be banned for joe public to use without a special licensed legitimate need.
So why not also ban super cars, classic cars, high end luxury cars (environmental impact of a Rolls Royce anyone?). What about people who drive vans only because they don't want to put a mountain bike on the roof of a fiesta every third weekend?
I get why people question the need for SUV's, I would replace mine if I could. But I don't understand the sudden hate for them as a group when there are other hard to justify vehicles around.
Edit. My Tesla M3P had a WLTP of 329 miles and in the depths of winter with my roof rack on I couldn’t do the round trip to Leeds from Newcastle of 200 if it was also raining.. similar story with my now petrol estate car.. round the doors it’s way below the “urban” quoted figure.
We ended up with an suv this time after years of estate cars but it was more to do with room. Me being 6’5 have the front seat all the way back leaving little legroom for the kids both who will likely be 6ft plus in the life of the car. We often do long journeys and our previous car we had out grown.
We tried multiple estate cars first but either the front seat didn’t go back far enough looking at you Volvo and vag group or there was no room left behind the seat. The dealer ended up suggesting we try an suv and we ended up all fitting so reluctantly ended up with one.
I don’t like it the ride is too wallowly, it’s thirsty and expensive on parts
with more of the SUVs being EVs it’s going to get worse as the things keep ballooning in size to swallow up those massive batteries and EVs are the direction of travel…
No, we'll have solid state batteries soon with much higher capacity so they'll simply fit the same capacity of. battery in a smaller and cheaper package. Because no-one needs 900 miles of range.
And it will harm popularity of SUVs because people will eventually realise that the body style is harming the range people care so much about. The Hyundai Ioniq 6 is the same gear and battery as the 5 but has 20% more. range - because it's more aerodynamic. It's also slightly cheaper.
So why not also ban super cars, classic cars, high end luxury cars (environmental impact of a Rolls Royce anyone?)
Yeah they can go too but they're less of a priority because there are far fewer of them on the road.
You have to admit that wasting 20% more fuel to do the exact same thing (for most people) is pretty insane.
Ok, I'll admit. It appears in my haste to find out what the thing was I was driving, I have pulled up the US stats and assumed it was something apparently not in the UK market, with no other identifiers to spec anywhere on the car.. https://www.kia.com/us/en/sportage
I didn't spend too much time dwelling on it as i'd have to be on the receiving end of 17 consecutive frontal lobotomies before considering one. It's mpg was shockingly bad, it was only 200 miles old and still smelt like a cheap trainer straight out of the factory, which may have had something to do with it - I pulled up the stats after watching the gauge falling while driving along on Mway, it was thirsty.
I couldn't detect anything that the vehicle was proficient at while in my charge, other than its excessive scale taking up more than its fair share of parking space. Have rented 20 year old clapped out transit vans that were more rewarding to drive.
You have to admit that wasting 20% more fuel to do the exact same thing (for most people) is pretty insane.
Not sure I agree with your 20% efficiency disparity - my SUV is broadly equivalent to the preceding Estate I had, it's certainly not 20% adrift.
nickewen
Free Member
Edit. My Tesla M3P had a WLTP of 329 miles and in the depths of winter with my roof rack on I couldn’t do the round trip to Leeds from Newcastle of 200 if it was also raining.. similar story with my now petrol estate car.. round the doors it’s way below the “urban” quoted figure
suspect the roof bars have a lot to do with this. My last car was an A6 Avant and for it's first 2 years I drove it with thule aerobars and 3 bike racks permanently attached, mix of slow commuting and longer evening/weekend runs. I then replaced the roof kit with a towbar and the fuel economy in the next year was around 5mpg better on average. AFAIK EV's are even more affected.
You have to admit that wasting 20% more fuel to do the exact same thing (for most people) is pretty insane.
Only if fuel is a significant percentage of their disposable income. They've just made a choice to spend a bit more money doing something than they could have if all they cared about was cost.
Otherwise, buying anything other than the smallest, most frugal car available is pretty insane....
Most things people buy aren't the cheapest option available - otherwise most brands, M&S, Waitrose etc wouldn't even exist.
And for most SUVs, which aren't that big, it's probably more like 10%.
EDIT my VED for my 3.0 Petrol BMW is £380 a year. It costs me 4p/mile just in VED Tax!
Ah yes but it will easily do 300,000 miles so it needs to be de-incentivised so we have to build more cars to be scrapped because apparently that's better for the planet (or something)
Pros and cons. We just chopped in an older Qashqai for a nearly new Skoda Octavia estate. The Octavia is more economical, as nippy, better handling, nicer to drive and has a huge load area. The Qashqai had better ground clearance which matters to us as we live on a rutted rural bridleway. It was better for carrying bikes because although the load area was smaller, it was higher and more usable - bikes stored upright with the front wheel off versus flat in the Octy. And as others have said (and some have dismissed) it was easier to get in and out of. It's easy to say 'I don't have any issues getting out of a saloon/estate/hatchback' but then neither did I until recently. Apart from general aches and pains, both me and Mrs Bloke have recently had surgery. We have an ancient Suzuki Grand Vitara as a second car and find ourselves using it a fair bit more than our nice new Octavia at the moment as it's much easier to get in and out of. Hopefully when we've recuperated a bit more this won't be an issue. So seemingly a trivial benefit when you're young, fit and flexible it can be an important factor!
It'll be interesting to see what shape cars we end up with once we've all gone driverless
SUVs were conceived to boost flagging sales by creating a new niche.
Heavier, with all the downsides of excess weight and an exercise in compromise, they are a huge success due to the vagaries of fashion.
The manufacturer conveniently makes a higher profit margin on SUVs, when compared to a regular car.
A win-win.....for the manufacturer!!
My instinct is to avoid them as to me an estate or a roomy hatchback is better in every way. More space, better fuel economy, easier to get into as it’s lower.
That’s contradictory. Yes, there may be more space, but fuel economy is dependent on many factors, not just the height, in fact many criticise SUV’s but are happy to sing the praises of van-based vehicles that are as big or bigger, and getting in and out of a vehicle where the seat is a foot or more higher than a saloon/estate is much, much easier, common sense should tell you that.
I bought an EcoSport, a Crossover rather than a full SUV, specifically because it’s just so much easier to slide in and out without difficulty.
My job over the last six and a half years has involved getting in and out of hundreds of different cars, vans, MPV’s, SUV’s, etc; recently mostly school of motoring cars, and the Peugeot 308’s are bloody awkward to get into, they’ve got a horrible hexagonal steering wheel that obscures the speed display, and unless I have the seat at its lowest, I can barely get my knees under the wheel, but with the seat at it’s lowest, I’m barely looking over the top of the wheel, and I’m nearly six foot.
It’s a fact that a population that’s increasingly older will prefer vehicles that are just so much easier to get into and out of - my Ford is just about the most comfortable car I’ve driven as regards access, driving position and cabin layout; I love it to bits, there’s no way at all I’d go back to a saloon, or an estate. Oddly enough, because of the body shape, I can get out of a current model Mazda MX-5 than I can a Fiesta.
The fact that I’m 69 this year, with arthritis in my knees, has dictated my choice of car, plenty of others are making the same choices.
However, it’s also the case that there are SUV’s that are just stupidly big for no other reason than to just show off, the middle class version of a big-bore exhaust, a huge subwoofer and pseudo track-racing accessories, like alloy towing eyes and ignition cutoff switches. Or an F1 light - like a fog light, but it’s on all the time, and can be made to flash. Like on the tarted up BMW that a lad at work drives… 🤦🏼♂️
SUV's cover all sorts of sizes and weights. Ones that are more normal car sized are fine, it's the massive ones, ICE or EV that are an issue - just no need for that size, especially the stupidly fast ones.
Totally agree. Even little cars (like Polos, Fiestas etc) aren’t little anymore
I drive an Argo, it is as small as small cars used to be and looks ridiculously narrow compared to other cars. Makes parking really easy, still has room to take lots of stuff to tip for example and does 60mpg however I~ drive it. Don't need anything bigger.
Argo, you mean Aygo.
We've got one too, its my preferred car for nipping out and about, and commuting if I'm not riding - super frugal, easy to drive, no pretenses, and folk let you out ! Fair amount of space if the seats are down. Bit basic and noisy, but it's about 800kg only.
But the Aygo comes in a SUV one now ! Why, as does the Yaris - that's one fugly car Yaris X
SUV's are attempt to make the blow of owning an MPV (eurgh based on a van darling) more cool. Look I got a pretend off road car sport thingy. Did I mention Sports, yes I do sports.
Add in 80k worth (Polestar) of environment saving. As you pull onto your drive the neighbours will be out to give you a standing ovation, maybe pots and pans, as a national hero doing your bit for the greater good.
fuel economy is dependent on many factors, not just the height,
Yes, but those factors are independent. Yes, you can have an SUV that's as efficient as some car, but if you apply the same fuel saving tech as the SUV has to the car you've selected, it would be more efficient. Like for like, an SUV is guaranteed to be worse on fuel regardless.
I found the fuel economy of an Argo abysmal. Quite liked the 8-wheel drive and the ability to go on water though.
But the Aygo comes in a SUV one now
Yes, they couldn't leave it alone could they and have made it wider and taller and heavier but kept same engine. Can only assume their research has suggested that is what the consumers want to buy.
.
A BMW X1 SUV hybrid is 60kg lighter than the 330e hybrid estate.
So much for the heavy argument!
Over the years I’ve had estates, hatchbacks and an SUV.
The SUV is by far the most practical and useable out of them all
we currently have a BME X1 and a Merc E-Class estate. The Merc wins on overall space but it’s less useable space.
I’ve had Mondeo hatchbacks in the past that are just as useable as an estate.
The X1 is fast, comfortable, handles well, good mpg, you can see out of it, get in and out very easily etc etc. Much better than the 3 series estate I had.
"There is a dearth of 4×4 cars that aren’t SUVs. For some folk, that makes them difficult to avoid"
That's summed it up perfectly for me.
As someone who's had estates for 20+ years, they are getting rarer. Can't get a Mondeo estate now in reality, Volvo stopped making the V70 and XC70 (the ideal vehicle for me) half a dozen years ago and their 2nd hand price is ludicrous, etc.
And those that are around have ended up with 'aero' back ends which stuffs up space and practicality (get square a dog cage into an aero shaped boot without wasting loads of space or making the space for the pup cramped). A few over priced audi and Mercs if you have the £££ (and I don't want an Audi as they're driven by waaankers).
So... SUV it was, out of necessity. At least I can get it up and down the driveway when there's a hint of snow (unlike all previous cars) and the extra clearance underneath is useful st times.
No, we’ll have solid state batteries soon with much higher capacity
I call shenanigans on this.
Lithium has been around as a tech since the mid 80s. Commercialised in early 90s. Workable as a commercial entity from around mid 2000s onward. We're now in the sub-fractional phase of increasing capacity on lithium.
There's no other technology out there at any stage of that path.
There’s no other technology out there at any stage of that path.
We'll look at where lithium is on the period table, we can't do better than lithium. We maybe able to get better at using it (and hopefully reusing it) but as you say the big gain of jumping to lithium is done.
A BMW X1 SUV hybrid is 60kg lighter than the 330e hybrid estate.
So much for the heavy argument!
Indeed, an apple contains less vitamin C than an orange. So much for an apple a day being healthy.
Conversely, a 330e (a massive car, @1890kg), weighs ~150kg less than the x3 xdrive30e (@2040kg).
Indeed, an apple contains less vitamin C than an orange. So much for an apple a day being healthy.
And even more odd, our 2.0 petrol gas guzzling eco unfriendly SUV does better MPG than either of the 1.0 Polo and Fiesta that we have owned in the past which were a fraction of the size and lighter.
Its not the size of the car thats the issue, the whole bad press with SUV's has come about from the those that have big v8's etc in them that are lovely places to be but get about 20mpg.
Anyhow the real answer is - buy a van. They are allowed on STW even though they are bricks on wheels, not that economical and handle like shit
Anyhow the real answer is – buy a van. They are allowed on STW even though they are bricks on wheels, not that economical and handle like shit
Yeah baby !
Only on STW, buying a large BMW, Audi, Merc, Van totally acceptable when you could just buy something smaller. Buy an SUV over a Focus and you're the devil incarnate...
Completely irrational behaviour from people trying to be 100% rational.
We’re now in the sub-fractional phase of increasing capacity on lithium.
It's the electrolyte that they are working on. There are lots of significant improvements to be made there.
Its not the size of the car thats the issue
It is AN issue. Like for like, an SUV wastes more fuel than the same tech in a normal car. This is unavoidable. Modern SUVs are more efficient than old cars because of the technology in them. But put the same technology in a car and it will be more efficient still. There's no getting away from that.
It's up to you what you do with that piece of information.
Only on STW, buying a large BMW, Audi, Merc, Van totally acceptable when you could just buy something smaller.
If you go back to the ultimate MTB transport thread there are lots of people advocating estates there too.
Only on STW, buying a large BMW, Audi, Merc, Van totally acceptable when you could just buy something smaller. Buy an SUV over a Focus and you’re the devil incarnate…
Completely irrational behaviour from people trying to be 100% rational.
There are possibly only 1 or 2 EV vehicles on the market that have gone down in size rather than up there's a certain amount of irony there too from manufactures, government policy and people who buy them
It’s up to you what you do with that piece of information.
Well, you could realise that very few decisions humans make about their lives are solely based on cost...
You happily call someone insane for not buying the most fuel efficient car, but not for any other choice in their life. Just seems rather odd to me...