Can a windows lapto...
 

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[Closed] Can a windows laptop suddenly start generating new MAC addresses? Help.

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With a view to limiting time online, we set time restrictions on the router based on MAC addresses.

Tonight, just checking the router,  there is another MAC address for the laptop and then another a few hours later.

I’m not very savvy at these things but a quick google search suggests it can be done.

Can anyone point out what I should be looking for on the system to see if there is an app or programme running doing this?

Windows 10 Acer laptop.

Thanks in advance.


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:17 pm
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http://www.thewindowsclub.com/change-mac-address-in-windows

Take it off them and check the mac, if it's changed take the battery and charger away


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:19 pm
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They are adamant they aren’t doing it manually and I really want to believe them.


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:21 pm
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And, I suppose, the original question was can it do this, or can it only be deliberate?


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:23 pm
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Whats the new mac on the laptop? Change it back and see what happens.... that is the one chance


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:25 pm
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The most robust way to do time based blocking is either some software on the computer that you lock or a second wifi access point with a different SSID and put that on a physical timer.  Change the password to the other one.  It makes it easy to override if you need and you can see if it is on or not

You do of course need to confiscate all phones and change the password on your main router

edit: I take back the "it's deliberate bit", it might not be


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:26 pm
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Mac address randomization is a privacy feature.

I tried to post a link but new forum.


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:29 pm
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ooo, I thought the randomization was phones only.  Hadn't spotted it on my laptop before

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4027925/windows-how-and-why-to-use-random-hardware-addresses

every day is a school day, etc


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:33 pm
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Which you have to turn on...


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:37 pm
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🙂


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:43 pm
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I’ve just checked, it was set to use new random MAC daily hence the abundance of addresses.

Thanks for the heads up on this, very useful.


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 9:50 pm
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Might be time to have a look and see when they googled for "how to change mac address".

If you've got 10 random addresses, I'd guess it was 10 days ago.......


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 10:04 pm
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The most robust way to do time based blocking is either some software on the computer

Er, no.

Local software is outside your control and trivially bypassed.  It's not a bad idea depending on the age of the kids.  But "robust," no.


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 10:12 pm
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I was assuming that the accounts weren't admin accounts but maybe that isn't true


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 10:16 pm
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Or your password is really easy to guess


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 10:17 pm
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Take away their PC and give them a Raspberry Pi instead.


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 10:28 pm
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also handy for using 1 hour free wifi hotspots

get kicked off the wifi and redirected to the "you have to pay "page... change mac address, reconnect free for another hour ... rinse and repeat

do it all the time when i'm out and about with the chromebook


 
Posted : 22/05/2018 11:07 pm
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Am I missing something? If you've set a time limit on use then that's been ignored regardless of whether or not the MAC address handling was changed manually or not.


 
Posted : 23/05/2018 8:27 am
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Am I missing something? If you’ve set a time limit on use then that’s been ignored regardless of whether or not the MAC address handling was changed manually or not.

I'm guessing you don't have teenage children?


 
Posted : 23/05/2018 8:40 am
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I’m guessing you don’t have teenage children?

Scotroutes is the original Victorian Dad


 
Posted : 23/05/2018 8:44 am
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I’m guessing you don’t have teenage children?

U wot?


 
Posted : 23/05/2018 8:45 am
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Well every day's a school day.


 
Posted : 23/05/2018 10:57 am
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I'm about to install one of these Koala

It will get round MAC address spoofing, but I expect the few days after the half term to be a bit rocky :-/


 
Posted : 23/05/2018 3:58 pm
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Can you allow only certain addresses? So only ones you want to work will have access. Means doing it manually everyday .


 
Posted : 23/05/2018 9:59 pm
 xora
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heh that Koala is a very expensive re-branded  https://www.gl-inet.com router 🙂


 
Posted : 23/05/2018 11:08 pm
 fifo
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Do they have phones they can tether from, or the means of getting one? If so, forget about thinking punitive router based methods will work.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 11:14 am
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We ended up taking the approach that if we couldn't physically see a device then they were probably capabale of using it to access the web.

Comprehensively controlling access to your router will just mean they end up asking neighbours kids what their wi-fi password is.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 11:22 am
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Use Microsoft family to limit screen time and block dodgy websites, works very well and will still work if your kids take their laptops to a friends house.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 11:31 am
 fifo
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Use Microsoft family to limit screen time and block dodgy websites, works very well and will still work if your kids take their laptops to a friends house.

I suspect itll it’ll take about 5 minutes of googling to remove that.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 11:39 am
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I suspect itll it’ll take about 5 minutes of googling to remove that.

Only if they admin rights... don't give them admin rights.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 11:52 am
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Quite.

As I alluded to earlier, endpoint protection is next to useless because as soon as it's out of your sight, it's out of your control.  You need to work on the base supposition that your kids - or one of their nerdy mates - know more about computers than you do.  "Microsoft Family" is going to be a fat lot of use if kids can stick a Linux boot disc into their laptop, for instance.

If it were me I'd be wanting to teach kids that they need to be trusted and trust is rewarded, or at lights-out the devices are downstairs on charge / in the parents' bedroom.  A technical solution is a belt-and-braces second line of defence, and needs to be somewhere where you can control and they can't get at.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 12:01 pm
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Only if they admin rights… don’t give them admin rights.

Download Windows .ISO, wipe and reinstall Windows.  Or simpler yet, factory reset of the laptop.  Boom, full admin rights and no more "Family" software.  Sure, there's ways around blocking that too, but only if you know that you need to do it.

If it were me (as the kid) I'd have two Windows installs, one "clean" one to demonstrate to parents that their security was still in place, and a second unrestricted one hidden with TrueCrypt / VeraCrypt or similar.

The notion that my parents would have had sufficient technical nous to lock down 14-year-old me's computer in a manner I couldn't bypass in seconds is hilarious, and I didn't have access to Google or a classful of geek mates back then.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 12:08 pm
 fifo
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Quite. The only way to be sure your know they are using the internet safely is to be with them when they do so. As that’s clearly not possible, second best would be education and trust, which definitely has a lot more positives. To think you can use hardware or software to achieve this is somewhat naïve.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 12:17 pm
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I think the combined approach is best.

I picked the Koala box because of the simplicity of operation for my wife

- Extra 30 mins wifi? - No problem, just fire up the app on her phone and slide the bar across.

- Allow the homework PC more time, but curb the PS4 - Same deal

Yes it is based on standard hardware, but the custom firmware, centralised whitelist, mobile phone App and other stuff is what I am paying for. Open DNS would not do everything I needed 'out of the box'

In our area  mini-me won't be able to piggyback anyone else's wifi and would run out of credit within an hour if he tried tethering. This is because the biggest issues (so far) is the PS4 online games and the amount of time he spends on them.

The Koala box will allow me to demonstrate exactly how much time he is online on the PS4, something he disputes at the moment, The reports can give a reasonable breakdown for this and it will be easy to check games v general surfing based on data throughput. VPN's will not prevent this 🙂

Some very gentle limits will then be applied using the Koala box. We already have some in place and it has improved things a lot, but it's a very blunt instrument and needs me to lift/apply limits through some very limited and buggy router software - it is not something the wife is happy to learn!

He knows what is happening and why, I think comms is really important. However, I still expect a bit of a lumpy ride for a while.

Luckily I am a bit tech savvy so will be running client isolated WiFi networks in parallel to prevent the Packet sniffing/MAC address spoofing angle. I also use this to police the bandwidth we all get as otherwise the games console takes everything it can get and everyone else struggles to load a google page.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 12:45 pm
 fifo
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it will be easy to check games v general surfing based on data throughput. VPN’s will not prevent this.

So he just streams 4K video whilst browsing?

Sounds like the combination of communication and gentle tech barriers will be fairly effective though. I suppose it’s a real pity that online life has come to this.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 1:05 pm
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https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4027925/windows-how-and-why-to-use-random-hardware-addresses
every day is a school day, etc

Oooo, didn't know about that. Spanner in the works for some hardware based licensing I know about, oops. Though always possible to change the MAC, but it's more the case of customers turning this on and then complaining it needs a new licence every day.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 1:42 pm
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I suppose it’s a real pity that online life has come to this.

It's not really online life I don't think, it's life.  An interesting question here is perhaps whether we're demonising online gaming unfairly.  Kids will obsess about things, it's not that long ago parents were going "stop watching TV all the time" instead.

It's easy to superficially conclude that sitting on the PS4 is Bad, but what you're potentially saying is "hey, stop socialising with your friends and read a book or something."  If they had friends round playing board games all day, would you see that as a positive thing or would you be seeking to restrict their Monopoly time?

To my mind, the problem isn't inherently video games or other "device" use, but rather if it becomes all-encompassing.  Case in point, a mate of mine has three daughters one of whom was a voracious reader; he ended up having to restrict her "book time" as it was starting to affect her social development.

Spanner in the works for some hardware based licensing I know about, oops.

It shouldn't AFAIK - licensing would tie to the MAC of a physical NIC, whereas this randomisation applies to Wi-Fi connections.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 1:57 pm
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I agree with Cougar. Our house rule is that there must be at least three regular hobbies/interests that take place outside the home and help with socialising/relaxing. However, the home time started to get dominated by online gaming so steps were taken to try and reduce it's dominance (not to stop it)

Ironically, it's where he also gets to chat with mates that he non longer sees as they moved so the PS4 is also a form of socialising as well

It's also worth accepting parental responsibility for it as well. I do the DIY at home, but while on holiday asked him to help me with some stuff as a method of getting him off the PS4 for an hour. I had to bite my tongue a bit as it slowed things down, but he learnt some life skills and asked if we could do some more the next day which we did so (luckily) he is open to doing other things as well, but the default mode is the PS4


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 2:08 pm
 fifo
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An interesting question here is perhaps whether we’re demonising online gaming unfairly.

Sorry, I realise I didn’t make that as clear as I meant. There are of course far more unsavoury uses for the internet that teenagers can find themselves involved with. It’s that I guess I was referring to, rather than gaming.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 2:19 pm
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Also for clarity - I wasn't addressing you directly @fifo, it was just a general observation / thought.


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 2:22 pm
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Parenting. Is there App for that?


 
Posted : 24/05/2018 3:08 pm

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