[Closed] CAMRA - We've won, haven't we?

Its a bit double edged. There's now a huge variety of beer but a lot of it is undrinkable. You can usually work out the over hopped ones from the description but not always. There is some much better beer out there now though. Interestingly cider and lager has also seen a bit of an improvement too.

The amount of choice nowadays is excellent.

Never been a fan of traditional Brit beers really.
Enjoyed the US craft beers that came out over the last 10-15 years, but now find myself enjoying traditional European styles, German or Belgian generally

Traditional bitter is hard to find in a pub these days. Apparently it is not what people want.

Apparently it is not what people want.

Are you saying that folks don't know? Or, you're saying tastes change? Personally I've never really been a fan of "ale" it all just tastes like soap to me.

Wasn't Camra tearing itself apart recently over Cask ale?

Yes

I go back to the 70s drinking.  In Glasgow when I first started drinking there where 2 places in Glasgow that sold real ale - the Bon Accord ( where I had my 18th birthday party) and a pub on Maryhill road I didn't dare go into.  There was also the Quarry Inn in Twechar ( which use McGlashan water engines to serve beer!)

CAMRA has disappeared up its own arse a bit nowadays - my local was removed from their listing despite having 8 ales and them being well cared for for the crime of having cider on a fake handpull

I suspect that was inevitable as their main reason for existing no longer exists.

Yes, the variety of beer is awesome, but it's mainly drunk from bottles at home. People need to get out of the house and use the boozer more.

CAMRA need to become Campain for Real, Ale, Pub Pints, ER can't think of the third tranche. Or CRAPPER for short.

There's a helluva lot of piss water on tins with snazzy labels and heavy marketing now though too.

I think the OP is talking about small scale local breweries rather than some of the more commercial "look at us, aren't we edgy" available in supermarkets type, though even they are generally pretty good.

We have some great smaller breweries here round Derby. Until recently Nutbrook Brewery produced their stuff in their garage round the corner from us, including the magnificently named "Responsibly" (because everyone should drink....)

I'd also agree that "craft" lagers are way better than the big corporations gassy piss as well.

I just wish we could go back to having plenty of sub 4% ales on tap to help lightweights like me! Seems like even non- new world style ales are getting unnecessarily alcoholic

I bought all of my Christmas beer this year from 4 local breweries within a 5 mile radius of my house. Ranging from a guy who makes it and sells it as a bit of a hobby through to a brewery that owns and supplies 3 local pubs. Wide range of beers from pilsners, American style IPAs, traditional IPAs, golden beer, traditional bitters, porters, stouts and finally strong imperial porters and Belgian style beers.

So far all have been good. My favourite to date is https://www.mitchellswine.co.uk/shop/beer/english_beers/?item=drone_valley_green_man_ipa&ref=5829 which is made with local hops.

If I'd have gone a but further afield I could have gone to some of the bigger boys like Thornbridge and the various Sheffield breweries.

Very happy with the quality of good beers available locally.

Round my way (Chilterns) we always had Fullers and Brakspear in barrel. Both fine. Then Rebellion opened up in Marlow in 1991 so more choice. There was also the Chiltern Brewery and Malt in Prestwood which I like a bit less.

My current favourite is Mad Squirrel Brewery in Hemel. They do a wide variety of beers from milk stouts through hoppy APAs to traditional lager. I drink the ones I like and don't drink the ones I don't. CAMRA wouldn't like them as they're served in keg or can but it's real beer brewed locally by people who are passionate about beer. They have also opened 6 taprooms locally, taking over empty retail units on high streets. They close earlier than traditional pubs and seem to have less of a session drinking culture than many pubs.

There was also the Quarry Inn in Twechar ( which use McGlashan water engines to serve beer!)

The landlord didn't have an eye patch did he?

I'm pretty sure in Scotland the water pump was the standard pump used in pubs until gas came along. Even now you don't see many handpumps in Scotland the water head has be replaced by gas pressure to drive the pump. then you get the camera bellends trying to be moany bastards.

I think the worst customers I ever served were drunk camra folk.

As a keen real ale drinker since the early 1990s, I'd also couldn't have imagined we'd end up with such an amazing and prolific choice beer now.

I think a lot of the carping in this thread maybe just proves the point, that there's soooo much beer out there now - and not all of it is to everyone's taste.

I just wish we could go back to having plenty of sub 4% ales on tap to help lightweights like me!

I appreciate this comment but generally find beer pubs do have a couple of sub-4% choices, it's in the supermarket that everything seems to be 5% and up.

If I may have a little whinge myself though: Does anyone else get cognitive dissonance at trendy bars charging £7 for a tin of craft beer?

Good beer is prevalent in spite of CAMRA, not because of them.

@chakaping - not in my local, all over 4%, and they’ve replaced the ‘guest ale,’ that only changes very rarely, from 4 up to 4.9 (admittedly to the very tasty Ringwood 49er so not all bad)

I appreciate this comment but generally find beer pubs do have a couple of sub-4% choices, it’s in the supermarket that everything seems to be 5% and up.

I was having this very conversation with MrsIHN yesterday afternoon as we were having a cheeky afternoon pint, and, to be honest, I disagree. It's now reeeally rare to get anything under 4%, and still pretty rare to get anything under 4.5%

The choice of beer now is incredible but, for my taste, much of it is in the 'craft beer'-esque styles; light, astringently hoppy, often quite sweet, and strong (maybe there's an argument as to this being why it's 'converted' previous lager drinkers). There's not so much of the 'english ale/best bitter' style any more, which, again, personal preference only, is a bit of a shame. I'll often pick whatever craft stout is on instead, as I like something with a bit of body.

Saying that, I had a pint of Wibbly Wallaby from the Wincle brewery on Monday and it was beautiful, one of the nicest pints I've had in a long time. Proper, traditional, bitter, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they'd basically used the old Boddies recipe.

I'm willing to accept I may be wrong, I mainly visit country pubs post-ride - and I'm asking for something under 4% as I'm driving home. If they have five pumps there are usually a couple at 3.9% or so.

Interesting to hear what others have found.

Yeah I find it difficult to find the 4% stuff sometimes too.

But... I've started to see "small beer" and "table beer", all 2-3%, cropping up in the fancy offies. It's hidden amongst all the Smoked Chocolate Coffee Marshmallow Stout Porter (8.4%) which seems to have taken over as the fashionable beer du jour, but it is usually there! And very welcome, as my long COVID addled liver struggles a bit these days.

But yeah anyway - 20 years ago it was a often a choice of Boddingtons or John Smith's. To go into a city centre pub and see half a dozen (or more) genuinely good beers still blows me away!

Too many cr@p IPA’s around that are no better than ghastly alcopops. Overly sweet & taste like p1ss. But yes, there are some good genuine craft ales around. We’ve lost a few too, Brakspears which I grew up on still exists but the brewery has moved & its never tasted the same since.

@chakaping Now that causes cognitive dissonance.

we are spoilt for choice near me especially with https://www.thebrewerybible.com/posts/the-stirchley-beer-mile but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

and this in january if any locals are about https://stayhappening.com/e/bikes-at-the-brewery-%E2%80%93-free-pop-up-cycling-event-E2ISU5Q0GWL

There was also the Chiltern Brewery and Malt in Prestwood which I like a bit less.

I'd completely forgotten I'd bought a couple of pints from chiltern brewery on Xmas eve, now just have to remember where I put them 🤔

There is a scene in Midsomer Murders which sums up CAMRA quite well. Mrs Barnaby says to Mr, "I thought craft beer was real ale", cue the deathly stares from the the beardy CAMRA types.
I will generally drink anything that can be broadly described as beer and don't worry what others prefer. It is hard to buy from some bottle shops though when the nearly-next-door supermarket has exactly the same thing at two quid less per bottle.

Brakspears which I grew up on still exists but the brewery has moved & its never tasted the same since

Interesting, as I had an Oxford Gold about 10 years ago that I still think is the single best pint I've ever tasted. That was probably after the brewery move you mentioned?

My first pint was in the rugby club, I was 15 and playing for the 3xv. One of the attractions was that you would get served a pint. Only problem was the club was on the 4th floor of an industrial unit and the beer was the truly awful Alloas double diamond. I will never complain about beer again. I was introduced to the Speedwell at 16, one of the best ale pubs in Dundee soon after would would serve me if I was with the rugby buffties ( my Dad and his mates!) The beer now compared to the late 80's is night and day,I have Burnside, 6N, Braemar and Red Castle within 10 or so miles. One constant in that has been CAMRA being the most self defeating group in the world. For any other Scots on here; anybody remember McEwans no3? Gawd that was good!

I think the recent resurgence of a wide variety of beers and many small breweries is nothing to do with CAMRA at all. I am lucky in that i have 12 small brewers within a 25 mile radius of me as well as many fields producing hops and malt, everything from trendy nuclear strength IPA's and stouts, to sold in a milk carton flat real ale, where you get free beer for helping pick the hops.

But you only have to go to a CAMRA run beer festival to see how out of touch they are, went to the Norwich one back in October, about 1000 twiggy brown real ales, with a small section stuck in the corner selling anything remotely interesting or by local craft breweries, yet they were doing 10x the trade the real ale was.

TBH my m8’s all joined CAMRA for the discount card and vouchers for weatherspoons.

They do go to the nice micro pub and drink the casks but as they say it’s nice but when there’s an offer on in the spoons at 1.50 a pint on something not like nats pizz, spoons it is for a round for the price of 1-2 drinks of the nice place.

The real fight now is keeping the British pub alive. There’s three left of about a dozen in my Sis’ town

Lots of good local breweries and generally great service. I ordered a couple of cases for Christmas on Sunday online and had it dropped off on Monday morning!

Also simplified what to get my BIL for birthday/Christmas. Look up different brewery and then arrange for a crate to be delivered! Occasionally get a miss in the mixed cases but he loves to try something new.

Have to admit I haven’t been in many pubs since Covid but again the local ones did a great job of delivery to begin with

For those looking for something lighter, Sam Smiths Alpine Lager is worth a look, only 2.8% and mid-ride friendly.

Either that or just get the pub to make you up a radler, it's called that for a reason 😉

My first pints of Guiness circa
1976 (16 years old) were 25p I think petrol was 77p a gallon at the time.

In defence of CAMRA. You might might think the boom in small and micro-breweries and craft ales has nothing to do with them but I think you’d be mistaken. CAMRA have campaigned to ensure that the basic conditions are there to support the sector. This includes campaigns in support of publicans, tax and regulations.

Beer strength is an interesting one. As I understand from friends who brew getting a depth of flavour eg hoppy ipa into a lower strength beer is harder then a higher strength. So beers over 4% are low the norm.

The Lake District has plenty of small breweries doing good betters. Tirol is one of my favourites.

CAMRA have campaigned to ensure that the basic conditions are there to support the sector. This includes campaigns in support of publicans, tax and regulations.

Probably a fair point.

As I understand from friends who brew getting a depth of flavour eg hoppy ipa into a lower strength beer is harder then a higher strength.

One could, possibly slightly, but not entirely, unfairly, rephrase that as

"we have to put loads of sugar in to balance the crazy amount of hops we use",

or indeed

"they have to be strong to taste of anything but bitterness"

The choice in most pubs now is amazing. Those bemoaning that many beers aren’t to their personal liking seem to have forgotten the days of no choice at all.

Too many cr@p IPA’s around that are no better than ghastly alcopops

My neighbour has a microbrewery in the garage supplying some local pubs. He calls those beers Alcho-hops. He doesn't brew them, he does some nice lower alcohol session ales

The choice in most pubs now is amazing. Those bemoaning that many beers aren’t to their personal liking seem to have forgotten the days of no choice at all.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say.

I don't go to pubs as often as some, but it never feels like the hoppy IPAs are compulsory.

I remember I used to count myself lucky if the pub had Old Speckled Hen on tap, but often had to make do with John Smiths out of a keg.

I agree with Sparks, Camra has made a big difference. Having said that, I used to volunteer for an annual beer festival and some of the box-ticking slogan T-shirt punters were murder: 'can I have a receipt' when clearly you only had a cash tray; 'I asked for a third not a half' when being inadvertently generous and so on. I ended up just volunteering to shift the barrels to avoid becoming rude and offensive.
When I started drinking in the 70s you could knock back 6 pints of Watney's Special and walk home sober. Guinness was 19p and before that public bar bitter 1/10d, saloon bar 2/2d. I imagine about 3.2 abv. My local now, a converted shop, has about 6 hand pumps of varied but excellent beers that change about every 2 days.

Are you saying that folks don’t know? Or, you’re saying tastes change? Personally I’ve never really been a fan of “ale” it all just tastes like soap to me.

Yes that's the stuff. Or more accurately, old socks witha hint of soap.

I don’t go to pubs as often as some, but it never feels like the hoppy IPAs are compulsory.

Yup dunno if it's cos I now live in a rural area with an older demographic but hand-pulled cask ales are still readily available if not the dominant thing in pubs round here.

I still enjoy a traditional pint (eg TT Landlord) but my go-to would be a 4% ish American style Pale Ale. Not many of those available round here, certainly not on tap.

Not that I get to pubs all that much but at my local I haven't really noticed the arms race in ABV. They have stuff on tap from 3.something up to 5.something, and generally fairly trad, albeit tending toward the paler/hoppier end of the spectrum.

Anyway, I agree with the general thesis. When I started going to pubs it wouldn't be unusual to see something like London Pride, but also an awful lot of Waddingtons and such from a keg. These days the choice is fantastic, and every area seems to have its local fauna of microbreweries.

It is amazing the quality and range we have available down the pub these days. As opposed to the Carling or Stella of my youth. However I do miss having a standard that you can rely on being available. A Stella or a Pedigree of old for example. I hate those pale hoppy things, or the rank chocolatey stout that they'll offer as an alternative, so after you've tried a few that you don't really like and you eventually find one that's ok, only for it to run out 🙁

I suppose pubs aren't after customers like me any more, who go in and have four to eight pints, but the family who have a drink each and loads of food.

Incidentally, I've noticed a big drift towards hazy beers, dropping using isinglass to accommodate vegans and maybe a welcome cut in costs. I find it can give a bit more complexity to the taste a bit like Sur Lie.

Interesting, as I had an Oxford Gold about 10 years ago that I still think is the single best pint I’ve ever tasted. That was probably after the brewery move you mentioned?

The brewery moved in 2002 & so stopped drawing the water from it's own well on-site. It was taken back into private hands about 10 yrs ago & started brewing in Henley again shortly after. I have to say I've not really drunk it since it the original move as it tasted utterly vile & nothing like it used to. Now it's brewed back in Henley it may well be a better pint..

Now it’s brewed back in Henley it may well be a better pint..

I had once when we were camping in the area a while ago. Quite pleasant to my tastebuds.

I vary in what styles I drink, we've got the excellent Twickenham Ales round the corner who supply a few local pubs but also a couple of pubs run by Big Smoke.

I was having this very conversation with MrsIHN yesterday afternoon as we were having a cheeky afternoon pint, and, to be honest, I disagree. It’s now reeeally rare to get anything under 4%, and still pretty rare to get anything under 4.5%

I am fortunate to live in the SE

In drinking terms perhaps...

I like to focus on the positives so ignore the lack of hills, overcrowding & crippling house prices 😂

🙂

I worked as a brewer for one of only a few brewpubs back in the late 80s / early 90s. CAMRA really was a big deal then, and along side SIBA, it has been partially responsible for the glut and range of small breweries of the last 20 years.

I’m not a great fan of the extreme “craft beer IPAs”, to me it’s gone past brewing good beer, past the experimental phase, and now into the emperors new clothes. How many mad ingredients we pack into one beer? I had one the tasted like Toilet Duck.

The last beer festival I went to the CAMRA bar person was complaining that there were too many golden ales and citras, not enough dark chewy winter ales. This was in July! She also complained that too many beers were too Thornbridge-y. Probably because Jaipur had won beer of the year, again.

I had one the tasted like Toilet Duck.

I've a can of Brewdog Parma Violets in the fridge. I'm going to make somebody else drink it on NYE as a forfeit...

I am fortunate to live in the SE

In drinking terms perhaps…

Horrible flat beer they serve down there in stupid glasses.  Up here real ale is everywhere and delicious and served properly  in proper glasses 🙂

I am amused by folk cpomplaining that although there is loads of choice they don't like many of them!  Back to the days of McEwans for you boy - no choice other than bad beer or no beer

Breweries like harviston now look to me like big business - their stuff is everywhere

Never understood the popularity of Brewdog, their beer is shite as is their Manchester bar and they screw their workers too and won't recognise a union. Steam, piss and all that.

Totally agree about Brewdog, but they seem to have ardent fans a bit like Alpkit in the outdoors world or Putoline in the mucky chain lube world.

Not being snarky, but I wonder if Brewdog's devotees came to ale through the company, or were real ale drinkers already?

Brewdog, their beer is shite

All of them? Agreed that some of their mass market stuff is absolute dishwater (I'm looking at you Indie) but some are proper gems.

Not being snarky, but I wonder if Brewdog’s devotees came to ale through the company, or were real ale drinkers already?

Used to drink Youngs and Breakspears almost exclusively, but Brewery location changes and the Brewdog* link have got me into a much greater variation of styles and breweries.

*I'm a shareholder from round 1.

I can weigh in on Brewdog - their beer was once good but things change. They got big but tried to retain their ethos and it failed big time. Instead to being rule breakers they pretty much stand shoulder to shoulder with every other big brewer.

They have definitely brought a lot of people into the glorious world of real and craft ale but it doesn’t take much experimentation outside of their brand to realise there is plenty of tastier alternatives.

I know the early punk ipa was what took me from drinking OK beers (Doombar, Hen etc) to enjoying more pale hoppy things and IPA. I’ve dived deep into strong double ipa or neipa territory and still enjoy those but honestly gone full (ish] circle and now like a good 4-5 percent hoppy pale on hand pull.

Brewdog appeals because beers like Punk IPA and Hazy Jane are and cheap, nicer than lager and available everywhere. Craft beer for the people is what they say - in my opinion everything they are doing is exactly what they planned from the start. Just a shame they decided to make their best beers weaker and shitter then produce a bunch more shitty beers to go with them.

(Also a Brewdog shareholder from an early round)

I worked as a brewer for one of only a few brewpubs back in the late 80s / early 90s.

As a Bitter drinker this was probably one of the best times to drink, except in Scotland obviously, consolidation in the industry has led to loss of variety especially among the weaker ones, which I prefer, and you hardly see a traditional mild anymore. I miss towns or cities being dominated by a local traditional brewer.

Still a big fan of Brakspear, whose products are mainly still produced at the Wychwood brewery in Witney, they produce a perfect 3.4% bitter.

Not a fan of most craft beer, too expensive, too strong and overhopped - and if I wanted citrus I would add a slice of lemon.

Most of the breweries we use regularly (e.g. Ilkley, Hambleton, Coniston, Saltaire) offer a wide range of beers that includes at least one (sometimes more) with less than 4% alcohol (Bluebird, Mary Jane etc), an amber ale, a stout… The choice has never been so good. What’s more of a problem around here is the viability of local pubs in the face of economies of scale (pubcos) and declining footfall.

As I understand from friends who brew getting a depth of flavour eg hoppy ipa into a lower strength beer is harder then a higher strength.

One could, possibly slightly, but not entirely, unfairly, rephrase that as

“we have to put loads of sugar in to balance the crazy amount of hops we use”,

or indeed

“they have to be strong to taste of anything but bitterness”

There's no (added) sugar in beer! Also hops only add bitterness if you put them in early. Late addition or dry hops, which is where people are adding crazy amounts, don't affect the bitterness.

My current favourite homebrew has a fairly bonkers amount of hops (single hopped with Citra) as I was trying to get close to a beer that I like from a local brewery. Really happy with it, certainly loads of hop flavours in it (very fruity), but, again, not bitter, because all the hops went in at the end and the bitterness doesn't get extracted.

The choice has never been so good

Yup.

However the buyouts, amalgamations and corporate cost cutting will **** some of it up!

The choice in most pubs now is amazing. Those bemoaning that many beers aren’t to their personal liking seem to have forgotten the days of no choice at all.

And

What’s more of a problem around here is the viability of local pubs in the face of economies of scale (pubcos) and declining footfall.

I'm seeing the opposite of the former above, probably due to the latter. Many rural pubs, and plenty local breweries of all scales, but a lot of empty taps in the pubs.

Popped in to one semi-regular recently, prices have reduced considerably, but only 1 ale on tap. We were the only visitors on a Saturday lunchtime. I only hope they make it through to the spring when things may pick up.

I feel extremely fortunate to live not too from Lewes in East Sussex, in beer terms at least, Harveys is the dominant real ale in these parts and what a beer it is, whenever i travel around the UK i always make a point of trying the local real ale, and whilst there are many great ales around the country few are as great as Harveys best bitter (I may be biased). We also have a plethora of other excellent breweries, Darkstar and Arundel spring to mind and the number of micro breweries is stagering.

Fortunately for me i like most beers from dark ales to super hoppy pales, i'm also fortunate enough to have my own brewing equipment and can knock out 5 gallons of ale for a few pounds. I haven't drunk poor beer in many years.

It's not just small breweries but small bars too. Friendly independently run places, not overcrowded. Lovely. Within a few miles of me, just south of Stockport is a huge selection of both small breweries and small bars.

Harveys is the dominant real ale in these parts and what a beer it is, whenever i travel around the UK i always make a point of trying the local real ale, and whilst there are many great ales around the country few are as great as Harveys best bitter (I may be biased).

You really are. Harveys is decent but it's nothing special, at all. And yes I've had it in pubs in Lewes/Brighton.

There’s no (added) sugar in beer!

There definitely is in some. It's a pretty standard thing for homebrewers certainly.

Harveys is the dominant real ale in these parts and what a beer it is, whenever i travel around the UK i always make a point of trying the local real ale

Lovely beer, big fan

Those posters who lament the passing of below 4% best bitter beers in favour of the newer over hopped pine fresh deodorants, the best selling beer from around these parts is Wye Valley HPA. OK, it’s slightly over 4%, but barely. It’s been the mainstay of the range for the last 35 years.

When I started brewing the best seller was Quaff Ale at 3.8%, a cross between old fashioned pale mild ale and a best bitter. We used to brew 15 barrels a week, 4300 pints a week for one brewpub. Plus two other brews that hardly sold. Both darker stronger brews. The strong ale was 5.6% and you needed to chew it.

3 years later the Hereford branch opened and I brewed Quaff Ale, Blackbeard’s Ale at 4.5%, a dark bitter chocolate ale that thought it was a pale ale, and Old Hereford Bull, 5% IPA, somewhere between officers and troop strength IPA. I did 20barrels a week between the 3. Occasionally a stout / Porter brew at 4.2%.

Golden days.

As a long tìme drinker of pale ales I find many of the current crop of "craft" beers ridiculously hoppy and expensive. I haven't been to the pub at all now for over 2 years. Most pubs are too expensive for me to visit on anything other than an occasional basis.
For me the attraction of a pub was good craic combined with affordable beer that you could have a few pints of without falling over So if you have a pub with good regulars and a decent pint of Deuchars ipa I'm yer man

There’s no (added) sugar in beer!

It's more common than you might think.

There definitely is in some. It’s a pretty standard thing for homebrewers certainly.

Nope. Some homebrewers, especially extract / kit brewers do add sugar to increase the alcohol content. Most homebrewers will use sugar for secondary fermentation (the bit that adds the fizz). In either case, the sugar is entirely consumed and turned to alcohol, leaving no sweet taste behind.

It's (almost) impossible to add sugar to beer to sweeten it, even after it's "ready". The yeast will just consume it.

Sweet-tasting beers can be created in 2 ways. One is to use sugars which yeast won't consume (e.g. lactose in milk stouts). The other is to make a strong beer. There will be residual sugars left over by the yeast (complex natural sugars from the malt which can't be consumed by the yeast). The more malt you start with, the stronger the beer and the more sugars get left over. You can also use Caramel malts, which do leave a sugary taste behind.

For me the attraction of a pub was good craic combined with affordable beer that you could have a few pints of without falling over So if you have a pub with good regulars and a decent pint of Deuchars ipa I’m yer man

You can also use Caramel malts, which do leave a sugary taste behind.

So in conclusion, there is added sugar in beer.

Oh my god… @bigblackshed memories… The Barrels, Jolly Rodger, The Victory. The ale drinking of my youth. Honourable mention to The Sun for lethal scrumpy.

@kelvin

The Jolly Roger was my brewpub.

I’d realised that from the beer names! Apologies for the affectionate misspelling.

Never understood the popularity of Brewdog, their beer is shite as is their Manchester bar

It's lazy and easy to moan about Brewdog, but if you're of a mind to actually experiment with different beers and flavours then a lot of their stuff is really nice (speaking as a man who graduated from drinking Deuchars and Caledonian 80 at Uni to having my head blown off by West Coast Canadian IPAs before coming back around to light 4.5%ers).

Their pub in St Andrews is also a reliable and good place for a seat and good food, we go as a family most times we're passing.

Somebody commented about the decline of local pubs which made me laugh, perhaps it's just a stage of life but the idea of going to a pub for a pint just seems laughable right now, who has that sort of time?? 😂

Finally a topic I know something about.

I wrote my MA thesis about CAMRA and years later published a magazine article in Australia based on it. See below.

I've never been a member, but I'm pretty sure that without it there would never have been the quality and diversity of beers available today. We'd be stuck in a kind of Budweiser-infused distopia.

That's not just because of the direct impact on the domestic industry and drinking culture, but the effect it had overseas. Many of the early US craft brewers drew inspiration from our beers, but adapted them to their hop varietals and palates. They also resurrected historical beer styles like the 'original traditional' IPA. The 3.6% versions we were drinking were pale imitators of the IPA of previous centuries. We're re-inheriting modernised versions of these styles now.

In the 1960s Which magazine ran an article showing how the strength of beer was declining dramatically, but it wasn't required to display the ABV then. Pre WW1 a 6% stout would have been standard.

Many of the Australian brewers I've interviewed have said they were influenced by British beers.

So beers evolve.

https://www.brewsnews.com.au/2010/12/20/the-defenders-of-beer/

“Original historic IPA” the Americans copied were the 19th century beers brewed for the Indian based regiments of the British Army.

It was brewed at around 1070 or 1080 with an ABV of 7-8% and then massively over hopped. It was transported from the UK to India, the hops and ABV were preservatives, then knocked back with local water to around 3-3.5% for the troops.

On board the Royal Navy ships the Officers had access to the beer lockers and would help themselves to the “officers” strength beer.

Hence why there are two versions of historical IPA.

So your saying for the authentic IPA we should ask for half a pint of a new world ale in a pint glass and fill up with tap?