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A bit of a spin off from the retirement thread. My own retirement is drawing closer and a campervan is on the horizon. I've written off getting a caravan but I'm not sure why. They are a lot cheaper and we already have a car that can tow so why is a campervan the answer? I'm happy that it is, but has anyone tried both and found one really didn't work or worked better than expected? Or is it all a an Instagram lifestyle dream and you are better off just getting a hotel or Airbnb as and when and not having the campervan bills? Very happy for the thread to include pictures of campervans (or Travelodges) 🙂
We have this recurring thought about Campervans v Buildings.
The only way a van makes sense is to buy 2nd hand.
IMO camping fees are fairly significant, as is all the faff involved.
What happens when ICE vans are banned?
For me the size of van I would want, it would be too big to park/drive easily, so then you end up towing a car, which is all just a bit silly.
Edit: The other thing you missed is buying a super yacht or holiday home/apartment. I dont know anyone who has bought a superyacht, but I do know people who have bought holiday houses. Its something I would never do as, without exception I have never know anyone who hasnt ended up regretting buying a holiday home as it limits where you go on holiday.
All options have compromises, so just pick the ones you can live with.
Different use case but we've gone from campervan to caravan to big tent - each worked at the time we bought them, but circumstances change... T5-sized campervan with pop top was great when just Mrs a11y and me: plenty of space, convenience being the size it was for touring around, stopping off enroute, etc. Arrival for 2 x mini a11y's ended that: now too small, lacked storage and a generally a hassle for anything more than one night away. Swapped to caravan: cheap, loads of space, comfortable, ideal for longer hols but not convenient for short trips. Killer for us was lacking storage to keep it at home, requiring storage at a dedicated facility a 25min drive from home (costly and time consuming as well as inconvenient for loading/unloading etc). Now onto a huge tent which again is great for longer hols but has the obvious downsides of being a tent.
As a family I'd still favour a caravan over a campervan (assuming use is more on longer hols than weekenders), but if just for a couple then a T5-sized campervan with onboard toilet would be my choice. It comes back to compromises though.
We have a campervan (converted Trafic) and have occasionally thought about something bigger (with a toilet) but the cost is such that we're sticking with what we have and spending the upgrade cost on other types of holidays.
The Trafic was bought when we lived near Edinburgh and we were regularly using it for ad hoc weekend trips. Since moving to the Scottish Highlands, more of the places we'd want to visit are close enough to reach in day trips so it's not used so.much.
The Insta dream of off-grid parking up has largely gone as there are so many campervan and motorhomes trying to squeeze into the same spots. Campsites are usually less crowded as they have legal limits on pitch density.
We need a second vehicle still and a motorhome would be too big for regular use (like parking at Aldi).
Caravan would require additional storage space. We don't have a drive big enough and storing it somewhere else costs more and is less convenient for a quick trip.
We still enjoy going away in the campervan though. It's a nice place to chill in and has flexibility that hotel/B&B/self-catering often lacks.
For me the size of van I would want, it would be too big to park/drive easily, so then you end up towing a car, which is all just a bit silly.
100% this – I was having this very conversation with my brother at the weekend (we were on a motorway following a camper towing a car). For all that campers have some benefits (easier to drive than a car + caravan), that is mitigated when you then tow a car behind it. Why not just have a car and caravan then there is no noise (drivign a camper drives me mad with all the rattling of stuff) or, as mentioned in the OP, not bother at all and just drive somewhere and pay for accommodation.
I love the idea of a van, T5 or custom size, no plans to wild camp so don't need a loo or shower. But I wouldn't want to have to keep a couple of bikes outside on a rack, so I'm then up to Sprinter/Crafter size.
Came to the conclusion the romance isn't worth the cost. Premier Inn/Travelodge are cheap and secure and plentiful. This week I've got 4 nights in a one bed lodge with Hoseasons that let's me keep the bike indoors and has a hot tub for £80 a night. If my mate was free we'd have got a 2 bed for £90 a night.
Pragmatism has crushed my dreams. But I was cosy in a proper bed when I woke up to rain this morning
We had a camper van, Renault Trafic for 2 years. It was excellent great little van, easy to drive, good for quick get aways and long trips too. However, you were always a little squashed in it and sat close to one another, although the awning helped. We’d probably still would have had it but we had an itch for an motorhome after a taste from the campervan.
My mother took ill last year needing heart surgery, I also also was due to retire and my eldest brother later this year. It was a shared van amongst us all. With my mother getting older and taking ill it would be difficult for her to use the rock and roll bed, pop the roof and it as mentioned always felt cramped without the awning.
When heading to the hospital one afternoon for a visit I seen loads of small motorhomes heading north, with that I thought “**** it we are upgrading life is too short”. It took a few months of looking and shopping about but we got a Elddis 105 secondhand with very low mile for a great price. It is also easy to drive, a little wider and a good bit longer than the Trafic but not huge. It has everything in it, including a shower and toilet.
Go for the campervan as they can be used easily as a daily vehicle too, it may give you a taste for motorhome though. Enjoy what they open up for you.
What happens when ICE vans are banned?
Nothing, it’s new ones that are being banned.
Nothing, it’s new ones that are being banned.
Yeah but how long before national parks bring in low emissions zones etc. These big heavy modes of transport are not the most eco friendly
We've had caravans for about 14 years, was great as the kids grew up for a holiday where you stuck it on a pitch for a week or 2. We have done a couple of touring holidays (moving on every few days), which were fun, but quite hard work with all the setup / set down. Kids are now late teens and the caravan is up for sale, with a view to myself and Mrsnre getting a campervan that will fit the bikes in the back, so the 2 of us can do more of a touring holiday where we move on every day or 2. This is much easier with a camper with onboard water and waste and bikes 'onboard'.
When we first looked at getting a caravan I created a spreadsheet to look at costs vs hotel/self catering, and the result was that camping didn't save an awful lot, but we went for it anyway, as we like the outdoor life and it was great for the kids to have some freedom on sites as they grew up. Campervans are so expensive you definitely don't go down that route to save money, you have to want the freedom that they (hopefully) bring!
After 15 years of campervan ownership, we're selling it and going over to using AirBnB/holiday let/statics.
Really loved having the van (T5 SWB), it worked brilliantly for the two of us and previous dogs, but current dog is too big to fit in it (old dog used to sleep in the front footwell, this one won't fit). Plus, it spends most of it's life just sitting on the drive.
It basically also comes down to how much you'll use it. The fixed costs for insurance/servicing etc are about £1000 a year. Add to that, when you do go away, you have site fees of about £30 a night anyway. So for our, say, four weeks use a year (one two-week holiday, a one-week holiday and then odd weekends), that's another £850ish. So there is the thick end of two grand that could otherwise be spent on AirBnB/holiday let/statics, and at a rough £100 a night, that's 20 nights of the aforementioned four weeks a year covered anyway.
Then there is also the cash raised from selling the van, hopefully £8-10k, which can also be put in the holiday pot for the next few years.
We skirted around buying a caravan instead but basically came to the same conclusion (sorry NBT...)
Saying all this, in about seven or eight years we will both hopefully be retired and, well, the dog will probably be dead... At that point we may look to get some kind of van again as we'd take it to the continent and live in it for weeks on end.
We bought this camper nearly 10 years ago, after many years of renting them. My view that we wouldn't camp very much was proven right, but the format is flexible enough that it served as our main vehicle for 5 years and then as an indispensable part of the family furniture ever since. Many miles, many smiles.
All options have compromises, so just pick the ones you can live with.
Very much this. I own a static caravan an hour's drive away in a beautiful part of a Argyll. It's a comfortable home from home I use most weekends and for occasional longer breaks. The upsides are significant convenience in just driving a car (or cycling) there & ease of use on arrival; everything is levelled and connected. Double glazing, central heating, dishwasher, Netflix etc etc. There are no storage worries and packing for trips is simple; food and clothes. It's largely stress free but the compromise is that it's quite expensive and rooted to one spot. This for me is worth it as it's a beautiful area with lots to do.
Couple across the road own a motorhome that they keep at home. They've had to build a 2nd driveway, with EHU, to store it. It's quite a slow, lumbering thing. Big enough to be comfortable and have a loo / shower but a worry on single track roads or when manoeuvring on site. Their upside is that they can and do go all over the country in it. If it's wet in Argyll, they can go to Galloway or East Lothian. For them, the faff of booking sites and setting up on arrival are worth it to satisfy their wanderlust.
I'm not sure how the buying and running costs of a large static on an expensive site versus buying and running a large motorhome to various sites compare but once fees, energy bills, insurance and safety checks are factored in, neither will be cheap.
You'd get a lot of hotel or B&B stays for that kind of outlay.
Nothing, it’s new ones that are being banned.
Yeah but how long before national parks bring in low emissions zones etc. These big heavy modes of transport are not the most eco friendly
They’re not exactly eco-friendly no but I have severe doubts that national parks will bring in ULEZs, it would right off 3/4 of Northumberland to vehicles that don’t meet.
I keep mulling this over as well and look at Crafter sized campers for the extra bit of comfort.
The prices are pretty high really and are a lot of hotel nights!
And,
If you do not wild camp , then camping fees need to be factored in, some places shut off season as well.
A bigger camper is a better on site, but less easy to use when out and about and maybe a faff to set up and set down of you go out on day drives not to forget the parking at a destination village shop or similar!
The image of van and wild camping is being spoilt by the few who leave a mess and puts me off that.
Premier Inns can be got for good rates booked well ahead.
Vehicle depreciation/ costs maybe a factor as well.
We mix camping and hotels at the moment, i think the prices for campers is too high to justify unless you can really afford it.
I can see the reason why caravans are so popular.....but cannot see myself being a caravaner (at the moment). You can hire statics as well not that we have and not really looked at that mkt (yet).
When we camp we can cook/eat in our van and sit in it if the weather is cooler or inclement.and the tent sort of stakes our turf in the campsite as well.
Maybe hire a camper and see if you enjoy the experience.
Smaller vehicles and day type vans are more appropriate for us and serve us well at the moment. Fits in car.park bay in Tesco and we can sleep in it as well if we want to.
But have you seen that Sven Hedin vw 😍....
If we are retired will we really use a bigger camper more? and the site fees will add up as well. Its a hard one.
Our trusty old van may soldier on a bit longer yet.
Premier Inn/Travelodge are cheap and secure and plentiful.
That last bit really depends on where you want to go. Looking at a map showing PIs and TLs, very, very few are anywhere I want to visit 😉
I have also been thinking about this recently and don't think I can justify the cost of the a camper when you still have to pay £30 per night for a campsite, that goes a good way to a cheap hotel, airbnb or a room above a pub.
Another option that I looked at is a tent box. Easier to pitch than a tent, takes up less space in the car/van and significantly cheaper than a camper.
Premier Inn/Travelodge are cheap and secure and plentiful.
That last bit really depends on where you want to go. Looking at a map showing PIs and TLs, very, very few are anywhere I want to visit 😉
Same feedback from me, very rare that I want to go anywhere that is populated enough to warrant building a premier inn. If the town is big enough to justify the permier inn, I normally worry about security of my bikes and kit in the carpark.
It basically also comes down to how much you'll use it. The fixed costs for insurance/servicing etc are about £1000 a year. Add to that, when you do go away, you have site fees of about £30 a night anyway. So for our, say, four weeks use a year (one two-week holiday, a one-week holiday and then odd weekends), that's another £850ish. So there is the thick end of two grand that could otherwise be spent on AirBnB/holiday let/statics, and at a rough £100 a night, that's 20 nights of the aforementioned four weeks a year covered anyway.
then you've got depreciation and cost of capital on the camper van.
I asked the question on the other thread- what are the real cost per night of ownership (and what does that work out per night) over a few years? Someone must have worked it out.
When we first looked at getting a caravan I created a spreadsheet to look at costs vs hotel/self catering, and the result was that camping didn't save an awful lot, but we went for it anyway, as we like the outdoor life and it was great for the kids to have some freedom on sites as they grew up. Campervans are so expensive you definitely don't go down that route to save money, you have to want the freedom that they (hopefully) bring!
what did you work it out at? I can't help feeling you get to the point of spending £200+ a night to sleep in a small uncomfortable bed with a view of a load of other camper vans most of the time. It definitely makes loads of sense if you've got kids but I'm just not getting it.
Someone's talking about camping in Ainsa in Spain in another thread. It's £40 for a 2 person pitch. A really pretty nice hotel in town, with great bike storage, is only £70.
I've done both. Started with my campervan 11 years ago, absolutely the best fun we've had was travelling to europe a couple of times, using it for regular weekend trips and days away. Then we realised that we wanted more comfort and a bit more space to move around. So we bought a caravan, a very light Sprite Alpine 4 berth that my Yeti could tow quite easily.
We need to have it in storage, this costs £400 a year, but its only a 10min drive away and close enough to the A1 to be heading North or South quickly.
Sites have gone up in cost in the last 2 years, some quite significantly. We enjoy the ability to move around the UK to favourite areas and new places, it only takes around 45mins to be set up and a full size bed and mattress every night is pleasant.
When I first started looking at Motorhomes and panel conversions 11 years ago you could buy something 4-5 years old for £30k now you start at £20k for something 20yrs old, prices have rocketed following covid. Campervans are very practical and easy to drive and park (and put bikes on the back of).
Just from another perspective, I've never considered getting a van or a caravan, when the kids were young it was just me & the 3 boys, definitely no cash for such things anyway & realised if we hired a cottage it would be like at home where I had to do all the cooking and cleaning, so we camped and ate out each night 🙂 The mondeo hatch swallowed all we needed for the four of us, could even get four bikes on the back with a rack. At one point I bought a trailer when the boys were bigger but to be honest didn't use it that much. Now with just me & Mrs dB both around 60yo, whether cycling, motorbiking or driving we would camp, B&B or hotel, no need for a van of any sort camper or otherwise, even the tandem goes on the roof of one of our V40 or Mazda 3, so no big car required. The outdoors can still be enjoyed without the use of a big box on wheels 😉
The Scottish Highlands hotels and accommodation are so expensive now in the summer season so that may influence a decsion as well if you plan to visit alot which we would do.
But you can get some good self catering deals at times off.season at less rip off prices in Scotland.
We tend to use Premier Inns or similar hotels enroute not as a destination to save money and if attending an event within range of a short drive or just a shorter break they.do tend to be by motorways or in industrial estates and very few Scotland etc.
I am not sure the future of Air b.n b is releable with housing shortages etc.and starting to cause friction in some areas.
All things to consider as well.
Yeah but how long before national parks bring in low emissions zones etc. These big heavy modes of transport are not the most eco friendly
With that attitude there's no pint in doing anything or buying anything, as soon it will be obsolete, broken or banned, may aswell not bother....
No, get out there and enjoy the things you like/want while we can do it.
Then complain about it after
I am not sure the future of Air b.n b is releable with housing shortages etc.and starting to cause friction in some areas.
This is something we keep in mind. We try to be really careful and only rent stuff that is true 'holiday' accommodation (like statics, chalets, converted annexes, that kinda thing), not little cottages/houses that would otherwise be someone's home.
v normal camping in a tent? Well that's what we mostly do, but add in some holiday cottages/gites/airbnbs from time to time. One advantage of camping is smaller, more remote sites that do not cater for caravans or campervans. We do have a van though, but it's just a kombi and not converted into a camper. We had thought of doing that when the kids were older/did their own trips, but we are just going to sell it instead and go back to a lightweight approach, small tent, small sites, car only. That's how we used to tour the country/Europe and it was fine and hopefully that's what we'll do again now we are older.
but I do know people who have bought holiday houses. Its something I would never do as, without exception I have never know anyone who hasnt ended up regretting buying a holiday home as it limits where you go on holiday.
I am currently sitting in our holiday home which we have had for 18 years or so, we both agree that without doubt it has been the best purchase we have made.
Being about 10km from the Wild Atlantic Way and inside the Ring of Kerry camper vans are common and becoming more of a nuisance; people crapping all over the place when “wild camping”, “wild camping” in general, blocking up streets and carparks used by local residents, usual stuff. They probably bring some money to the local economy but less than those using B&Bs and hotels. It’s just a problem that comes from living somewhere nice but not a lifestyle I’d fancy.
Air B&B has just been hammered here by the government, planning permission is now required to run one throughout the State so that might hit availability.
Mine is different to many as i spend 25+ weekends a year away camping, however they do have limited facilities at most, including food usually. However 90% of the time we cook ourselves. Due to size of van, price of vans/campers we've gone down the tents/gazebo route, but we're in the same place from Fri>Sun usually as it's at a race event.
Sometimes we do Airbnb it instead though as the weekends are pretty long and hard in the tents when it rains a lot. I guess a XLWB with an awning for ease would tick a lot of boxes for us and it's something that may happen next year, but that depends on a lot.
The downside being i can't find something i'd want for less than £35k.
This is something we keep in mind. We try to be really careful and only rent stuff that is true 'holiday' accommodation (like statics, chalets, converted annexes, that kinda thing), not little cottages/houses that would otherwise be someone's home.
I do think about this when booking places and there has without doubt been an explosion of short term lets in recent years.
It is more nuanced in some areas though. Quite a few seaside towns were Victorian purpose built resorts with more accommodation than local residents can use. I live somewhere that has a lot of holiday accommodation and while some could be homes for people a lot of them were derelict in the 60s and 70s. It is only an increase in domestic holidays that has seen some of them refurbished and returned to use.
I grew up with a lot of caravan holidays and the thing that struck us was that we could set up for a week or three and easily drive off to do day trips and whatnot, campervans on the same site had to pack up loads of gear to do that, or tow a smart car or something. I think the length of stay/style of travel you want is a big factor in which way makes most sense. We were a family with loads of 'stuff' and an awning of course, if you're going lighter in a smaller camper it's not such a big deal.
Have deliberated this, whilst my sister just bought a small 4 berth motor home. I like some comfort, but a T5 sized camper van might be the answer for daily use - park somewhere nice, maybe stay away with dog, use overnight before a race (slept in the car in Saturday night and it didn't end well). Don't want to tow, but think having something on the drive (and it's not a big drive) means it will get used. Booking AirBnB is an excursion in itself. A second/holiday home has been an option, but that's really for full-on retirement.
How is a T5 for a daily driver? I drive very little anyway! Kids have left home, but eldest would soon be back to "borrow" a camper van!!!
I think you should add motorhome to the list as it's markedly different to what I would call a camper van.
I have a VW T4 which I absolutely love. Together with all the kit I've built up, I have absolutely everything I need for a long weekend/week. But need to pay campsite fees as like to have toilets and showers. It was brilliant when the kids were little and as teenagers we had an awning which made it useable (if grumpy teenagers actually wanted to come along!). Now it's just me and the wife, as its an LWB it's the perfect size if we keep things organised.
Along with the ability to just get away when we like the thing I most enjoy about it is that it 'forces' us to be more active and spend time outside. Just sitting and having a tea or a beer outside when the weather is 'ok' which we wouldnt do when at home. It also enables us to explore new areas for hiking and biking.
Mind you, the van is 25 years old now and I bought it before the explosion in camper van prices so only cost me c£8k. I'm not sure I'd be paying the ridiculous prices that people do now for campers (esp with the VW tax for T5 &T6).
Depends... (I haven't read the thread so this may have already been said).
Where do you want to go and how much planning are you putting in to things?
We've got a Citroen Relay, it's the perfect size to still be able to get everywhere in, takes 2 bikes, kitesurf kit, skis / snowboards, us and a cocker spaniel.
The bonus for us is the flexibility to just jump into it with zero planning and without the hassle of finding dog friendly places. It's always pretty much ready to go, takes 30minutes to load bikes, food and clothes and head off.
We use it loads from just the odd night away in the Tweed Valley to ride for a day to 3 week long trips to the Alps, to ride or snowboard. We usually have a loose plan of where we are heading but tweak it on the way based on the weather, where friends might be or the snow forecast.
If you want to go and stay in one place for a week at a time then you're probably better off in hotels / B&Bs, we could have a lot of hotel rooms for what the van cost us.
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Or is it all a an Instagram lifestyle dream
Well it's not all glamour, sometimes you have to pour away your poo
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Oh, I see that replies aren't loading agin then 🙄
How is a T5 for a daily driver?
Absolutely fine, mine was my daily driver for years when I was commuting to work
I've owned one of these for the last 14 years, small enough to park at Tescos and fit on a normal drive, big enough to stay in for extended periods. Currently worth about 8k more than I paid for it and around £1300 a year running costs (tax,mot insurance etc)
https://ireland.apollo.olxcdn.com/v1/files/wjj78ebb3vmk-PL/image;s=1000x700
We've got a transporter, but as a family of four it's a bit of a squeeze. I really don't think I can justify going bigger. As time goes on large vans with only two people in the doesn't really feel like part of the solution. In fact this summer the van will drive us to Slovenia*, and the we will be off bike packing for 5 weeks.
* I know that's hardly part of the solution either.
How is a T5 for a daily driver?
It's fine. It's mondeo sort of footprint anyway if you go SWB. High up so good visibility. Air con, sunroof, usual car stuff. SWBs fit in supermarket carparks, LWBs overhang a bit.
Mines up for sale in the classifieds, but not converted. Fancy a project?
Have a big caravan that I'm currently using for working away - we will also use it for a week or more away. The whole faff of getting it out of storage, towing it to wherever, setting up, de-camping, putting it back in storage makes it far too much hassle for a couple of nights here and there
Just bought a T6 which is ideal for just me and Mrs STR for the odd night. I'd happily do longer, but she's not too keen. Will be taking it to the local festival this year rather than lugging the caravan and will be perfect for biking trips away with the lads
i think the trick with a van is to use it a lot.
If you use it as often as you would stay in a hotel (a few times a year?) then by the time youve paid campsite fees, tax, insurance, mot, you might as well have a bed and not have to cook your own breakfast.
but if you have the van, you can go away EVERY weekend, for cheap, or even in the week. i know people who go camping from work, local spot they know, beers in a pub that isnt the local, early morning swim off the beach, and back in time for work the next morning.
Caravan: bigger space (sometimes?) than a campervan. Having the car seperate to explore whilst you're pitched up is a massive plus. Loads cheaper to buy.
Campervan: easier to drive/navigate small roads. Can park at a beach and watch the sun set, take pics for instagram etc.
Best option: buy a Porsche and stay in hotels.
How is a T5 for a daily driver?
As a van, brilliant. As a camper van with a bed, hob, fridge etc in it, absolutely useless. Bikes struggle to go in it, trips to B&Q for big stuff you have the same problems as a car, passengers in the back if a fixed bed are sat 10ft away from you etc. All that stuff in it weighs a load as well.
Best option: buy a Porsche and stay in hotels.
Well after Saturday night, I can't recommend sleeping in a Porsche - even on an inflatable mat. But race started at 04:30 so hotel was hardly worth it for three hours. But this I can relate to:
Can park at a beach and watch the sun set,
I keep a log of nights away. We have had campers and a caravan since 2003 and added up over 1,100 nights away. We got the caravan in 2012 and still have it accounting for over 760 of the nights away. They both have there place so it is a matter of working out what you need or replace your current car with a camper and get a caravan. We tow with a small camper.
Campers are great for short breaks, it is much easier to have a meaningful last day of a break in a campervan. Caravans usually mean heading straight home. They are superb as a day van to make trips to scenic areas much better. A place to relax, get changed have lunch or a cup of tea. Small vans work for two big vans can be a pain to use but have their place for the right type of holiday.
Caravans are a much more comfortable home from home. If you have space they can be an excellent addition to the home. Ours lives in the garden in summer and our daughter uses it two nights of the week and my wife uses it one night to get away from action film night in the house. In winter we have started to put it on a seasonal pitch that we use every other weekend, Christmas & New Years and Easter. Insurance and maintenance is cheaper for a caravan. When on holiday we really like to explore in the evenings so having the car to get out and come back to a ready made bed really works for us. Maintenance is far less stressful or expensive for a caravan especially as a camper gets older.
Neither are really cheap holidays. We paid £9k for our caravan brand new which is unheard of now, it is still worth half of that at least so the capital cost has been low but insurance, maintenance and pitch fees obviously add up. But there are very few occasions when I would rather be in a hotel
As a van, brilliant. As a camper van with a bed, hob, fridge etc in it, absolutely useless. Bikes struggle to go in it, trips to B&Q for big stuff you have the same problems as a car,
One advantage of not going for a pre-built campervan and going bespoke is the ability to change the layout. With our Trafic I can still fit in two bikes lengthwise and long items from B&Q aren't an issue either. This was always a key requirement for me.
Bit of everything here.
We were 'given' a static by the in-laws some 12 years ago. They's had it about 6-8 years but were getting older and couldn't go as much - given by the fact we picked up the ground rent and insurance etc whilst they still went to it occasionally. We did use it alot though, and the kids enjoyed it. Roll on 10 years and we got the 'you need to upgrade or go' letter. Looked at nearly new statics and for £35k plus they weren't a patch on our old one (top of the range Willerby Aspen). So we decided to leave. Ground rent, insurance and bills were £5k.
So we decided for 2024 it would be camping and hotels and a couple of overseas holidays. Still cheaper than £5k, and we did about 24 nights under canvas, 6 nights in hotels, 14 nights overseas.
I was 55 early this year, so took 25% tax free out of a couple of 'spare pensions' that had done well. My car was great, but at 22 years old, it was old. Looked at motorhomes, campers, large cars, vans and people carrier vans. Camping meant the cars were full to the brim and only two of us could travel (tent, bikes, kayak/sup).
Motorhomes - too big to keep on my drive, and too long for the parking spaces next to the house - can't use as a daily.
Campers - mega bucks for an old vehicle, and most were pretty underpowered. New were silly money compared to what you get in a motorhome.
Vans, would need insulating to sleep in but cheap.
People carrier van - hang on..... huge spec, sunroof, front/rear air con, powerful, loads of space, can become a van, or 'part van', insulated, classed as a car (important where I live with potential emissions charges)
We already have a nice cotton tent and camping gear.
Remember, there are compromises with all.
Went with a people carrier van - Vauxhall Vivaro Elite (3 year old - can't get newer dino juice versions as all electric with poxy battery), all leather, 180 bhp, 40 mpg, seats come out. Really drives like a car. Fast.
So we now still do hotels, still go abroad, camp with tent (3 nights or more) and sleep in van (one or two nights). We have a bed system from Van-Gear that lives under the parcel shelf, and we just remove two chairs (went with the 3+2 seat option, not the 3+3 option as the double seats weigh a tonne).
Can manage a small site without a porta potti, but bought a Decathlon awning (cheap) as a solution for bad weather and ability to take the loo, especially on larger sites.
Pros, can use as a car, loads of space and seats inside, very well equipped and a real mile muncher. Despatches steep hills without any issue in Wales. Down side, a little cramped in headroom when sleeping in it as bed system folds over the existing seats. That's it.
Very versatile as it can carry much more than a camper, and is properly classed as a car, some campers aren't.
This year has been testing out the options with the van. Camping without awning, works well if weather dry, but no-where for a loo or to hide the bike (using ground anchor) and if you leave site for day may lose spot ? Awning - needed to be cheap and quick to put up, and freestanding. Decathlon Arpenaz Base - 2.5m square, can stand up in it. Goes up fast. Tested last weekend with daughter sleeping in the awning. Van not too full, but had kayak and SUP in it too as well as three people.
Away next weekend, van and awning, just two of us, minimal gear but EHU. Recently 5 nights in Bala, took tent, bike, Kayak - didn't fill van to roof (unlike the cars), and could see out all round - ideal on motorway. Another trip coming up in August - touring Wales. Taking tent for 3 night stops, sleep in van for single nights. A camper wouldn't take as much gear.
As mentioned, each option is a compromise.
And not being VW it was a heck of a lot cheaper, and much better specced, and more powerful. Engines seem reliable (2.0 HDI), Japanese 8 speed gearbox great, and parts availability very good and well priced. Service/MOT pack was cheap. I'll be keeping it long term.
One advantage of not going for a pre-built campervan and going bespoke is the ability to change the layout.
This is a good point we have always gone bespoke mainly because I want a decent sized bed, I can't be doing with those side kitchens and narrow sleeping areas. Not a problem with caravans
We used to go camping a lot, usually part of our main holiday involved some camping. Then we'd drive to the Alps or Pyrenees in winter for ski holidays. We always had big estate cars but decided to get a van (8 seater with nice leather seats and fancy car style interior). Its NOT a camper but we can sleep in it in a proper bed that folds out over the folded down seta. Kids go in tents still or the awning. Getting the roof done so we can stand up in it would be great, but would cost about 5k or something, so not sure that going to happen any time soon.
The fact that ours replaced a car means there isn't any additional cost associated with insurance and servicing/maintenenace and pitch fees would be the same reagrdless. Our van means we can be more comforatble in it while carrying shit loads of stuff we probably don't really need....
If you're not bothered about fancy cars, then a van type 'car' makes a lot of sense if you do out doorsy holidays or would likely be camping any way. Full on campers are just too expensive for me.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the key reason that a decent camper/ motorhome may be best....
The utterly abject nature of a lot of (UK,?) B&Bs/ rentals. I'm gobsmacked by the number of places with scabby little double beds or sometimes Queensize beds. Then the shocking quality of the mattresses/springs as well.
Then the duvet situation... Either a horrible heavy double that I'd die of hyperthermia under, or stupid UK singles that are only long enough for midgets.
At home our bed is pretty much 4m^2, with top quality mattresses, sheets, pillows etc. Why the heck would we want to shell out for the dross you get in a lot of B&Bs.
Even in our T5 the bed is far better than most B&Bs. Extra long and pretty much full width of the van. Again with top quality duvets etc.
you can get some nice camping gear, tent etc, fold up furniture for say a grand.. you can use electric hook ups at sites that have them, so you can have a fridge/cooler and portable stove. The biggest advantage is you can go away from site in your transport vehicle.. sure you can do this in a smaller camper too, but that's not cheap and requires annual costs just to own.
IMHO if you have camper it must have shower and toilet, or what's the point? so then you are into the larger vehicles, which you may not want to drive off site to do whatever you want to do that day.
A Caravan carries the benefits of both, you set it up, leave it when you go out on trips..it costs nothing (apart from some basic maintenance) to own, but you do need somewhere to keep it.. that being said, you need to keep your camper somewhere if it's not your daily driver. Both campers and caravans seem to be quite nickable too.
So i have a mid size MPV (Mazda 5) which when it's not transporting my bikes, can easily be loaded up with my 5 man tents, bed rolls, cool box, cooking gear etc etc, can transport probably 4 when fully laden for a week away. yes it takes a couple of hours set up camp but then it is set and forget..
Even roof tents still need to be folded away if going out in your vehicle... and the actual usable space in them is much smaller.
The only real advantage i would say to a camper, is if you are going site to site, nightly stop over sort of scenario.. you can park up and set up in the time it takes to get out of the drivers seat.
As a van, brilliant. As a camper van with a bed, hob, fridge etc in it, absolutely useless. Bikes struggle to go in it, trips to B&Q for big stuff you have the same problems as a car,
I have to say, after 15 years of ownership, this is bollocks. Layout matters I guess though (ours isn't the standard "rock'n'roll bed and side kitchen" layout), and we don't have passengers in the back
As for comfort, we went for Thermarest Mondo King air mattresses - much much better than cheaper ones (comfort and thermal properties, and a must for a side sleeper. Ideal for camping as the thermal properties are good, and reasonably compact to use on the van's fold out bed.
I have to say, after 15 years of ownership, this is bollocks. Layout matters I guess though (ours isn't the standard "rock'n'roll bed and side kitchen" layout), and we don't have passengers in the back
I had a Type 2, T4, T4 and a T5 over 20 years. They were great at the time but the thing that I finally got fed up with was making a bed up every night (and not being able to stand up, but that's fixable with a pop top). Fine for a weekend but got wearing after a week or more. The self converted Relay we have now is a whole different world of comfort & convenience, having a bed always there & a toilet has massively increased the amount we use the van. I also can't believe how often we use the shower - we nearly didn't fit one, it gets used nearly every day we're away.
Had a T5 day van and now have a Dispatch converted to a day van. Both were "fine" for sleeping in for weekends, even a week, but I have a sun shade and a driveaway awning for the longer stays so I feel like I have more space outside.
I keep wondering if I should buy a proper van (which would be many SEK) or a cheap caravan (which would be not so much many SEK), but the Dispatch is driveable, economical and has enough headroom that I don't get too cramped on long journies. B&B/Hotels are fine, but I still take my van there. If i bought a caravan I would probably still keep the van and just use it as storage or for shorter trips.
How much are you going to use it? I used to have a T2, if I were going for something now it'd be crafter-sized with bike storage under a fixed bed, have toilet facilities and I'd be able to stand up.
But as with all these things, how much will you use it? If your motorhome depreciates £3k a year, then that's a lot of hotels, flip side is if you're planning on touring six months a year then it makes sense. Caravans are cheaper and leave you with a regular vehicle when you get where you're going, it just takes you longer to get there.
My parents have a caravan on a seasonal pitch that they've never towed, it's 40 mins down the road and they visit it loads so it's probably worth it. My MiL has a static 60 mins away and doesn't use it as much as she thought she would, it's a bit of a waste of money really.
If you're thinking of a caravan or motorhome then try and rent some and do some trips, then you'll know what you want and more importantly what you don't.
The utterly abject nature of a lot of (UK,?) B&Bs/ rentals. I'm gobsmacked by the number of places with scabby little double beds or sometimes Queensize beds. Then the shocking quality of the mattresses/springs as well.
You can get all that & live music at the Crabtree Inn and if that's not to your taste there are complimentary ear plugs
They all have pros and cons.
Small campervans for touring i.e. staying one night at a time, for two people.
Caravans are great for a holiday - a week or more in a place. They have proper facilities, you can cook your own food, make your own coffee on a proper cooker from a proper fridge, you have your own shower etc. You can have a fixed bed so you don't have to make beds up and you get a proper sprung mattress. But you're still out in the countryside - open the windows and you're still very much in the woods or fields etc. Don't stay at sites with full facilities, stay in small places like CAMC certified locations. You absolutely cannot views like this with hardly anyone around for £15 a night in a hotel (and there is a beach at the bottom of the cliff):
The best part about hotels is that you can drive fast and it's much easier. Also a lot more economical. But personally I find having to find somewhere to eat every night is a right pain, and because being in hotels is a bit shit you are always obliged to be out doing something. In sites like that ^^ you can just sit, chill, and watch the dolphins and the sunset. Same goes for camper van, but the accommodation is far better and cheaper in a caravan.
I don't see the benefit of a large motorhome. All the downsides of a campervan and few of the benefits. And the cost is absolutely outrageous. The van in that picture was £2300 and it did well for eight years maybe. We foolishly splashed out on its replacement at £13k from a dealer, but it looks, smells and feels new. Seems like a hell of a lot of cash until you look at campervans.
Best option: buy a Porsche and stay in hotels.
Have you actually tried finding hotels in nice places in e.g. Wales without spending a fortune or without it being shit? In some cases it's both. I found it quite hard.
Do what suits you, but I'd maybe make a list of pros and cons. My wife was initially not to impressed with the more limited headroom in the 'car van' when sleeping, but I'd always said I want something that can do it all to some extent. We had all the camping gear so a motorhome/camper would mean getting rid of a load of relatively new kit, and we've a smashing Tent - one of those Nordisk cotton tents that went for a steal on Wiggle !
One big plus with camping, once I'm there and set up, I really unwind - so much more than even a hotel. We've done basic and posh sites. Absolute best, so far, is Portmeirion camper stop, so much so, we are going again on our Wales trip and stopping one night again. You get access to the village on both days, and use of the hotel facilities (outdoor heated pool). You've got a choice of two fabulous restaurants. It's £55 a night, but village access is included (normally £20 per person per day). The shower/toilets are fantastic.
We went to the caravan and camping show last autumn before making a final decision. Wow, some of the motorhomes are ace (garage for bikes) and the campers can be fab - I think if you go camper, the rock and roll bed needs to be on runners so it can slide forward for passengers, giving you a relatively big boot area. We were almost persuaded to get a motorhome, but then thought of the practicalities, size, parking, and the fact I'd need to use it as a 'daily'.
Premier Inn/Travelodge are cheap and secure and plentiful.
That last bit really depends on where you want to go. Looking at a map showing PIs and TLs, very, very few are anywhere I want to visit 😉
Same feedback from me, very rare that I want to go anywhere that is populated enough to warrant building a premier inn. If the town is big enough to justify the permier inn, I normally worry about security of my bikes and kit in the carpark.
You can take bikes in to a Premier Inn, done it a few times, always been clean mind, turn up with one covered in filth and they may not. I even used the lift at the last one. Left the front wheel in the car to make it easier and wheeled through on the rear. Bit of a faff by myself opening doors but at least it was inside...
We thought about this a little, but buying a touring caravan and putting it on a seasonal pitch. When we camped with the kids a good few years ago, there was a great little site in North Yorkshire that had a few of these offered, around £1800 a year. Do a couple of years, get bored then move to a other someplace else.
You have the flexibility of your own car, can keep the van stocked and kitted out and you aren’t tied to one place.
I don’t know why we didn’t follow it through thinking about it now….🤔
The thing is in terms of motor homes, they don't lose that much value if they are demonstrably looked after and in good condition, it's not like a car that loses vaue purely due to age, up to a point.
My old man went through 3 motor homes in about 5 years, he started off with a fairly big one, it was too big, he traded it in for a small one, think LWB/high top tranny type thing, and then settled on a more middle size, which if memory serves, was a Hymer, based on a Pugeot HDI 2.2 tdi(HDi?), or it might have been a 2.4, I think.
RIP, Dad...
I had a T2 for 5 years living in it for a year. Also had a minimalist Ducato L1H2 for 14 years. Broken into 5 times over the years. We found that as the years went by our favourite spots were banned, fitted with height barriers or disappeared. It was a depreciating asset that required maintainance, insurance, testing, and poured out CO2 and filth wherever it went.
Had a caravan for a year, Madame detested it, her comments aren't for a public forum. 🙂 The most amusing incident was when we parked perfectly legally at Lourdes swimming pool and went for a swim. This caused panic amongst the staff who were convinced another 50 were about to rock up and occupy the car park. They were very relieved to find the owners whom they recognised were swimming up and down. Not so amusing was finding bits missing after getting a bit enthusiastic with the gas pedal on the autoroute - flimsey things caravans. And the fuel consumption/CO2 production was embarrassing - far worse than the Ducato or even the notriously thirsty T2. The upside was being able to dump the thing on a campsite and still have the car to get about without fear of being broken into. I'd do it again but suspect Madame would boycott. Requires booking further in advance than any of the others in busy places at busy times.
Now we throw a tent in the Zoe and mix camp sites and Booking/hotels/gîtes. Or we walk or pedal or train or bus, and it all feels more like an adventure.
It's not really a question of money as we could buy and run another van/caravan, it's more a case of bin there, dun that and don't enjoy it as much as other forms of getting around. Maybe when Madame retires we'll buy a leccy van... .
Bought our van 10 years ago before the prices went through the roof.
Abigale was racing in the EWS and after doing all the calculations for her to race in Europe it was a no brainer.
It gets used throughout the year in the UK and for trips to Europe.
Works great for us. Always find somewhere near to the trails.
Yesterday we were riding in Aletsch Arena and after a 6 hour drive today up and over 2 mountain passes are parked up ready to ride in Val Di Sole tomorrow.
Wishing my life away planning my retirement, part of the plan will be a Campervan so doing a lot of research, and what I've noticed over the past few months, is what I think might be the start of a price crash, dealers in general, and when they are at shows are offering significant discounts to this time last year. What I can't steel myself to do is buy a van with a Ecoboom style engine, no matter the service history.
We are into mountain biking so a van makes a lot of sense.
We converted our own. It's a long wheelbase Renault Master. Conversion isn't fancy, probably cost £3000ish. Our priorities were safe out of sight bike and/or Kayak storage. And a proper bed.
So our van has a king-size proper mattress, excellent underbed storage, a loo, a sink for a wash, loads of batteries and solar, and spinny seats. And a big fridge and drinks step.
It's perfect. Bikes are safe and well. The bed is far more comfortable than any random b&b (I have a slipped disk). We can stay on French aires for a few nights. Or chill out in a campsite.
We had a brief period between vans when we went to the Massiff Central. It was really obvious to us then, how much we loved the van. Carting, storing finding a safe spot for expensive bikes is an absolute pain in the arse. It's also a pain not having all our stuff, and our own space.
And we can move about as we wish.
Imagine your own inspirational photos here.
Lots of chat about the various options but I've not seen any mentions of the key reason I love having a camper van (lwb sprinter/crafter sized, bikes inside, shower etc so fully self contained) which is that being in my van feels like being at home, there's none of the that feeling for me in any kind of hotel etc.
Quite, our tent feels like 'home', as will the van - still new to us...
Vs camping in a tent…? I do get the camper thing but if you ‘invest’ in one you will inevitably base your trips around it. I know everyone is different but while I’m not too old and stiff, I would rather free myself from vehicles and ride, walk or float and camp in a tent.
I will occasionally sleep in the back of my estate car the night before and/or after a paddling or hills trip and that works fine. But for the trip itself I’d rather be free from vehicles.
Well it's not all glamour, sometimes you have to pour away your poo
Seriously, get a dry separating toilet. So much easier than trying to find a suitable place to dump your piss and poo container.
We previously had a LWB T5 with a pop top which I converted, allowing storage for two bikes inside, or snowboards or tools plus the second row of seats if we wanted. Could sleep four if we wanted, but never did.
It was fu and looked the part, but the novelty of playing Tetris each night and having to wait for the other to get up (assuming sleeping downstairs) before the kettle could go on soon wore off. The pop top was great as long as it wasn't raining, blowing a gale or cold outside. Running the heater was pointless if the roof was open. Lack of privacy offered by the fabric also sucked.
Sold it and didn't regret it.
Been living in our self converted XLWB H3 Ducato for nigh on three years now.
Four bikes inside on a pull out tray. Space on the bed to sit upright. Space to stand up.Space to properly lay down (190x150cm bed) on a proper mattress. Balcony because why not? A proper (diesel) stove and kitchen space. Ample storage (have a false floor that serves as the larder).
Basically our whole life is contained in the van.
With regards to campsites, we've not stayed on a single one in those three years. Closet we got was three nights in Portugal on a private aire tour Place and that's only because the GF needed a decent internet connection for an important call. Think it cost 12€ a night.
We stayed in a hotel for a few nights in Florence when I squirted some AdBlue into the diesel tank and had to get it flushed out. That was an expensive mistake.
There are loads of places in the continent where you can officially stay for free. Have found some spots where we've stayed for upto three months.
Currently parked up in the Piemontese Alps, with a view of Monviso, in the edge of a bike park.
If you're vaguely interested have a peek.... Not updated for a while, mind....
https://www.instagram.com/flat.earth.research.project?igsh=MWdrNGV1bm9xMjQ3bQ==
I do get the camper thing but if you ‘invest’ in one you will inevitably base your trips around it.
Not necessarily. I have a fine collection of tents, bivvy bags and tarps regularly in use.
What I see quite often on forums/FB etc are small campers (VW's) with huge set ups - big awnings, big fold up chairs, loads of cooking gear etc. I see them and think it's almost as much faff as the caravan, with the downside that when travelling all the available space must be taken up with 'stuff'
For me, I wan't minimal stuff cluttering the van up - drive up, set up within 5 minutes and an easy departure.
Maybe that's just me because I have a caravan and purposely wanted something a fair bit easier.
As a disclaimer - you may see me with an inflatable windbreak, but I've bought that primarily for the festival trip
Re: the faff aspect - also see people who buy a big 'touring' caravan, set it up on a seasonal with a huge Isabella awning filled with tv's, sofas etc that the literally must need a removal van to get everything there. Each to their own, I just don't get it
We did the small tent to medium tent to T4 camper to LWB Sprinter over a 20 year period which included gaining a boy who is now 14 years old and a taller than me. We also have a dog.
I'll skip the money side of things as you can easily work that out and the costs depend on your standards/tastes anyways...
Our van allows us to not have to plan where we are going until we set off. We do sometimes book things in but we often just look at the weather and set off. If we have gone for the last minute option, I drive and the wife gets on Search for Sites. We don't mind 'wild camping', a pub stop or camp site. We prefer a campsite if possible but we are flexible.
This is the main reason for choosing a campervan over a caravan or B&B.
That and our Sprinter swallows 3 mountain bikes, a paddleboard and inflatable kayak and enough gear for a couple of weeks, most of which lives in there permanently so we are ready to go.
And if the weather turns bad on us we can go home or move on as we haven't paid for a week in an Air B&B...
Currently half through our 4th year in this van and we are on 141 nights and looking forward to hopefully retiring in 6 years time and spending longer periods over January/February/March tripping round Europe.
No doubt its already been suggested but hiring different sized campers/motorhomes will quickly let you work out if its for you. You can't beat a wet weekend in a T5 sized van with a stinking wet dog, wondering if you are going to be stuck in the field to focus the mind 🙂
For the record, we find hotels to be souless places in comparison to our much loved van and haven't tried a caravan but don't fancy towing, it looks stressful.
I'm with ASTR above. Set up involves spinning the front seat around and we are done.
We do have an awning but it's only used on those longer trips where we'll be in one place for a few days. It's handy for eating in, extra storage space etc.
Some of the van vs hotel discussion reminds me of the tent vs bivvy bag chat. Sure, there are some very lightweight tents that challenge a bag and tarp for weight, but it comes to down to which experience you want. Similarly, maybe there's not so much difference in cost between a van and a hotel but they offer two different experiences.
Ive not read every answer - sorry
I suggest you try hiring a campervan a couple of times. Its expensive but will give you a taste for much less than the cost of buying one and you can hire different sizes.
I have hired numerous times over the years, from huge coachbuilt ones to minimalist people carrier based ones. All have advantages and disadvantages. I will never use one enough to be worth buying one as I like to vary my trips
I will never use one enough to be worth buying one as I like to vary my trips
I agree and will take it further, when people buy a camper van or caravan the vehicle dictates their trips. We sold the Ducato in 2012. In the years we owned it our holidays were often van based logically enough. Since we sold it we sometimes car camp but the mojority of our holidays have been a train/bus start and then walk/bike moving on most days. Discussing with Madame we debated whether we'd have ever walked 4000+ kms on Compostelle routes, bike-packed I have no idea how many kms, trained and bussed to all sorts of places. We realised that if we'd bought another van we'd have probably spent much of our holidays sitting in it. One day that might happen but only when were too old and knackered to do anything else.
when people buy a camper van or caravan the vehicle dictates their trips.
Only if they let it. We still use hotels, self-catering and so on. I still bikepack.
This is all absolutely personal isn't it- my desire for a small camper grew strong after I'd been away bouldering for a few days, in pretty mixed weather and was pretty tired of another nights camping. And no there wasn't a Premier Inn or Travelodge handy. It didn't need to be big or fancy, I just didn't need the extra grief of camping (and I've done many months of camping in my time)
I know literally hundreds of people with holiday homes , but I've never wanted one as I like to go different places
Travelodges/Premier inns are usually around towns, and whilst they are ok for accommodation they aren't fun places to be. You aren't going to be relaxing watching the sunset with a drink in your Travelodge are you?
I probably would own a small campervan as well as a caravan, if I were really rich. But I'm not.
flimsey things caravans
Yes and no. They are now much better than they were. About 2010 Bailey decided to stop using polystyrene and wood, and they made the walls and roof out of a much stronger and thicker composite construction. Other manufacturers followed suit. They are absolutely not without problems, but they are a lot more rigid than they used to be. My current van has much bigger wheels, a fresh axle, shock absorbers, and it's far better to tow. Quality is still an issue but I think that when looked after, the modern vans are lasting a lot better than the older ones. Swift make them entirely wood free with a GRP floor, which I have to say is a rather attractive proposition.
flimsey things caravans
Yes and no. They are now much better than they were. About 2010 Bailey decided to stop using polystyrene and wood, and they made the walls and roof out of a much stronger and thicker composite construction. Other manufacturers followed suit. They are absolutely not without problems, but they are a lot more rigid than they used to be. My current van has much bigger wheels, a fresh axle, shock absorbers, and it's far better to tow. Quality is still an issue but I think that when looked after, the modern vans are lasting a lot better than the older ones. Swift make them entirely wood free with a GRP floor, which I have to say is a rather attractive proposition.
Buccaneer made their vans with GRP walls around 2016 - which mine is. For whatever reason they've switched back to an aluminium outer skin. No annoying dents in the GRP as opposed to the ones you inevitably get with Alu