[Closed] Campervan overnighting spots, Loch Lomond, Balloch-ish

https://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/things-to-do/camping/campingbyelaws/

Could you drive a bit further up towards or just past Tyndrum? Shorter drive to Oban in the morning too and fish and chip supper from the Real Food Cafe if you make it in time.

Edit. Somewhere like here would do.

https://goo.gl/maps/d71VoEiujbHVeUGq9

Ah, cheers Grum I'll take a look at that.

Tyndrum's a possibility, possibly a little far. Any particular spots around there though?

Edit. Somewhere like here would do.

Cheers, but probs too far up.

Any idea if you can park overnight in the Co-Op car park in Balloch?

It is worth looking at that link. The thing is, I suspect despite the restrictions, a lot of the nice unofficial parking spots around Loch Lomond, at this time of year, on a Friday night will be bam party central unfortunately. Maybe the ban is better enforced these days I dunno.

If you could get to the end of Loch Lomond there is the Beinglas campingsite,might not be as full of Bams and a bit closer to Oban 😉

Beinglas has a bridge to access with a weight limit of 3T I think, we don’t fit anymore in our new van.

I think you can overnight at Tarbet Pier and has water & Waste if you need it, it’s outside the management zone.

Here you go https://www.searchforsites.co.uk/markerMobile.php?id=35191

Busy apparently but hopefully in September you’ll be OK.

We promise not to poo in any verges, but I can’t promise I won’t wee behind a bush.

Sounds like you've a van, not a campervan 🙂

Green Kettle?

Get breakfast in that way as well?

https://goo.gl/maps/EjMaQkAoyzbo48zd6

I've slept there before and there were other vans there at the time. When I went past on Saturday there were a handful of vans there. It's a cracking spot to wake up and because there's no beach there's no bams.

Green Kettle?

Get breakfast in that way as well?

Green Welly?

Get a pass?

https://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/things-to-do/camping/get-a-permit/

Sounds like you’ve a van, not a campervan

We've a SWB T5, which is outwardly very un-camper like. And, inwardly, ain't got no bog.

https://goo.gl/maps/EjMaQkAoyzbo48zd6

I’ve slept there before and there were other vans there at the time. When I went past on Saturday there were a handful of vans there. It’s a cracking spot to wake up and because there’s no beach there’s no bams.

Unfortunately the bams might just be on the grass instead. 2 weeks ago a bin was on fire when I went past. I'd put Duck Bay in the "hit n miss" category

Luss Campsite.

Millarochy Bay Campsite.

Drymen Campsite.

Strathblane WHW Campsite.

Beinghlass Farm Campsite.

Strathfillan Campsite/Wigwams.

There is a running theme here. I was speaking to someone on holiday who lived at Helensburgh. Apparently the 'free stopover' camping is a huge issue around south Loch Lomond area - people waking up to find campervan/caravan outside their house and someone pee-ing in the garden over breakfast....every. single. night. a. different. van.

Maybe the ban is better enforced these days I dunno.

It's enforced as well as the laws that existed before the ban that made the problems the ban was meant to address illegal.

There is a running theme here. I was speaking to someone on holiday who lived at Helensburgh. Apparently the ‘free stopover’ camping is a huge issue around south Loch Lomond area – people waking up to find campervan/caravan outside their house and someone pee-ing in the garden over breakfast….every. single. night. a. different. van.

Yeah, I get your point, but I'm not going to do that, because, well, Rule 1. I'm genuinely thinking of parking in the Co-Op at Balloch, where there's public loos next door. Given that we'll be either a) parking it, b) sleeping in it or c) driving it away, we're not going to be hanging around making breakfast etc, I suppose I'm really asking "where can I park my van overnight, and I'll just happen to be in it?" rather than "where can I camp for free overnight?".

Aye, go to a campsite.

Green Welly?

Nope, Green Kettle is on the Helensburgh - Arrochar Road IIRC, Green Welly is overrated.

I'd say good luck finding anywhere, don't fancy your chances. Dunno if checking car parks in Helensburgh is worth a shot.

It’s enforced as well as the laws that existed before the ban that made the problems the ban was meant to address illegal.

Yup, now the rangers and volunteers have added the law behind them to the list people can ignore and abuse them for.

Dunno if checking car parks in Helensburgh is worth a shot.

IIRC, all Argyll and Bute car parks are now 'no overnight parking' everywhere.

Aye kettle. Not that overpriced shitehole.

Also from memory theres a couple of car parks on that road you could get into from memory.

Or bridge of orchy on the fire road behind the pub.

Or...

Beinn a' Mhanaich Parking
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KBihLihaJhjTX9gGA

Nope, Green Kettle is on the Helensburgh – Arrochar Road IIRC, Green Welly is overrated.

Ah, didn’t know of another green themed place 👍 Haven’t been in the Welly for years, the last couple of times the Real Food cafe hasn’t been great either.

people waking up to find campervan/caravan outside their house and someone pee-ing in the garden over breakfast….every. single. night. a. different. van.

We’ve got friends near Arden, they have a big drive and have woken up to people camping on it.

It’s enforced as well as the laws that existed before the ban that made the problems the ban was meant to address illegal.

I've read this three times and I'm still none the wiser.

I suppose I’m really asking “where can I park my van overnight, and I’ll just happen to be in it?” rather than “where can I camp for free overnight?”.

In a campsite.

Right, for the sake of £24 and not incurring the wrath of STW, we're booked into the Beinglas campsite.

👍

(FWIW, it isn't ever a 'go' or 'wrath', but it does feel that everyone with a van now wants to park somewhere to (incorrectly) make use of Scotland's 'open access', often thinking they are the only person who had an idea to break a long journey up or visit a particular spot for the 'gram shot in the morning... I think times are changing for roadside camping, it has been spoiled, permanently.)

I think times are changing for roadside camping, it has been spoiled, permanently

I’m hoping all the people that have got excited and bought vans in the last year will decide it’s not for them, and things might calm down again next year.

I’ve very rarely previously booked anywhere and either just turn up at a site for a night or find somewhere to hide away, but this year we’ve got a fortnight’s worth of sites booked for August / September.

(Having said that I’m hoping I can find somewher for the next 3 nights as we’ve come away without booking anything).

Have you checked the forestry commission website for overnighting in their car parks? There’s loads up that way-depending on which way you’re going to Mull. There’s the Ardgarten one just past Arrochar-handy if you’re heading to Oban via Inveraray (R&BT) or there’s a couple further north on the Loch Awe road. Few quid a night.

I’ve read this three times and I’m still none the wiser.

There were laws on wild camping, littering, antisocial behaviour and so on that weren't enforced when people broke them. So they introduced a bylaw on wild camping, to stop already illegal behaviour, that affects people who never broke the existing laws. But fortunately they don't seem to be policing the bylaw that well now anyway.

paino
Full Member

Have you checked the forestry commission website for overnighting in their car parks?

Good shout that one, take your pick

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/staythenight#map

There were laws on wild camping, littering, antisocial behaviour and so on that weren’t enforced when people broke them. So they introduced a bylaw on wild camping, to stop already illegal behaviour, that affects people who never broke the existing laws. But fortunately they don’t seem to be policing the bylaw that well now anyway.

^ This is so true.

A lot of people still are against the byelaws - they have created paperwork for those who are responsible, and made no difference to the meatheads. What was needed (and still is) is enforcement of the existing laws, education and societal change.

What was needed (and still is) is enforcement of the existing laws, education and societal change.

How do you propose they are enforced? PS aren't interested and the rangers just get laughed at or abused.

^ This is so true.

A lot of people still are against the byelaws – they have created paperwork for those who are responsible, and made no difference to the meatheads. What was needed (and still is) is enforcement of the existing laws, education and societal change.

And make more provision for the obvious demand. There's clearly a need for better thinking around the whole issue.

And it's not I want to keep this wee part of the world to myself.

How do you propose they are enforced?

I agree this is an issue... Too many police needed in city centre, too few of them to have anyone free to police rural places. In Stirling county area there are usually no police on duty in an evening across the weekend - any that are on duty are in Stirling city, Falkirk etc.

Besides which you cannot turn up to a rural campsite as one female officer with no phone signal, no radio signal and 18 beered up Glaswegians...(seen that first hand). SO you need a rural team to move folk on, check all the assets they have left (honest officer, a brand new iPhone was in that sh*thole of a tent, you must have lost it clearing my stuff up) etc.

I think it needs a bunch of police, with council and ranger support, to operate in teams going around enforcing folk and moving on.

Enforcement is however the thing we are having to do because education and societal pressure has not been brought to bear. 🙁

And make more provision for the obvious demand.

This is also an issue - but as we have just demonstrated there are campsites, there is capacity. Some folk just need to choose to use it and pay a few quid.

That said, I also think that capacity needs increasing, and that huge new sites are not the answer. Using village hall car parks, smaller and more intimate to nature sites, things that benefit the community more are the solution to this.

That said, I also think that capacity needs increasing, and that huge new sites are not the answer. Using village hall car parks, smaller and more intimate to nature sites, things that benefit the community more are the solution to this.

This. I know I've now booked a site, but I don't really want one as I don't really need one; I just want somewhere where I can park the van, have a wee, sleep, have a wee and leave. A village hall carpark with use of the loos would be perfect, and I'd happily chuck them I dunno, a tenner or something.

I’ve seen the rangers out moving people on around L Lubnaig and L Venachar from unofficial sites at about 4pm on a Saturday. I don’t know how often, or how late they patrol. There was no need for the new bylaws but I dread to think what it would have been like in those parts if they hadn’t happened to have them when the covid rush arrived.

Paino the FCS scheme is only for vans with toilet facilities. Whilst I’m sure nobody checks worth being aware.

, smaller and more intimate to nature sites,

we’ve used the “stay the night” that the forestry commission are doing, it’s excellent. A lot of the time all I want is somewhere I know I can stay without upsetting anyone, and I’m happy to pay a few ££ for that. Better still if there’s somewhere I can tip my poo away, and again happy to pay.

I just want somewhere where I can park the van, have a wee, sleep, have a wee and leave. A village hall carpark with use of the loos would be perfect, and I’d happily chuck them I dunno, a tenner or something.

Most farms you pass would be happy to accommodate that, but I'm not sure a tenner would be enough, perhaps if you ask nicely and promise to deal with your own toiletry requirements, the obvious catch there is you want campervan spontaneity, just park up somewhere nice, but it's gone, there are tens of thousands all with the same idea at the same time, which coincided with facebook and twitter declarations that you can park and roam anywhere in Scotland for free, bit of a perfect storm, and in some places a shiz storm.
I don't see local councils providing more facilities as the answer either, campervans come loaded and don't necessarily contribute what the traditional B+B tourist did without the expense of providing free facilities for them, the hotel business is dying and it's never been busier, not a great investment there.
It's a shame because it was the cool way to do it, but I think now it might be starting to unravel due to the very thing that made it appealing.

I have noticed recently when passing Tomintoul several folk camping in the car park next to the tee junction with the Lecht road. The Tomintoul campsite is never full so these folk are just too miserable to pay. Saw one family in a VW van set up with a toilet tent and table chairs etc out in the grass next to the car park. Certain folk have some brass neck.

Social media is killing off all the good spots by people broadcasting where to park up. Better to be unhelpfull on these occasions.

We live in Tobermory - house is down a nondescript gravel track that leads to a building site between a builders yard and merchants. It is not on any maps. I heard a vehicle coming down the track as I was in the garden - a brand new 21 plate camper was coming down the track and promptly U-turned when I walked out. He was parked in the Tobermory harbour car park the next morning - there were still places at the campsite. I’m sorry, I’ve got no time for freeloaders, particularly ones driving £50k+ campers.

had this discussion (well, agreement) the other day while out for walk with mrs kcal. Prompted by the number of CVs at Burghead and by association at Findhorn. I suspect they do think they're putting one over the greedy (*) campsites by doing their own thing, while as you say swanning about in 25/45ks worth of 'van.

Not all I know, there's flexibility as well, but groundswell turning against I feel.

Maybe arbitrary decimation of CVs entering a specific e.g. NC500 'zone' ?

Social media is killing off all the good spots by people broadcasting where to park up. Better to be unhelpfull on these occasions

Same with lots of unofficial trails I fear.

I’m sorry, I’ve got no time for freeloaders, particularly ones driving £50k+

I've got a double standard / inverse snobbery on this one. Stealth camped, more hippy types, no camp site set up out side the van, arrive late leave early. No issue. Big obvious motor home sat outside with deck chairs all evening, go pay £20 for somewhere.

Stealth camped, more hippy types, no camp site set up out side the van, arrive late leave early.

This would have been us. I didn't want to camp, I wanted to park.

I'm hypocritical

Aa I've done it. Out of site of people houses nice and out of the way etc in a very low key van.

But I dislike seeing huge beige wobble boxes bunched up in a lay by.

Went the shop yesterday and in .5 of a mile passed 4....

Part of the problem is us scots see tourists as a nuisance, as opposed to the cash cow they should be.

There has to be opportunity for locals to sell stuff to these campervans. Even things like "10 quid and I take your rubbish" or a bag full of beer etc.

America embraces the rv, maybe its time we did too?

Part of the problem is us scots see tourists as a nuisance, as opposed to the cash cow they should be.

I do agree with you on that, absolutely, but to be honest it's questionable if any of them bring any financial benefit to the area they're in. The cat is out the bag though, they ain't going away, infrastructure is required to milk it and improve the whole situation.

I suspect they may buy perishables from the local supermarket, beer and wine and fill up at the petrol station along with a bag of Murray Mints but that’s about it and most of that cash goes to multinationals not independent traders.

That might be a gross over simplification of the situation as some may purchase local goods too and services (museum visits for example) but suspect the majority come with the RV loaded with most of what they need for the trip.

having seen @IHN's "RV" and the sapce in it, and seen him eat and drink, I can say fairly confidently that over the course of a week he would be spending a fair chunk at local enterprises selling food and drink 😉

I have a lot of sympathy for people invaded by folk randomly overnighting in inappropriate places - whilst each van may spend just a single night, it must get pretty wearing if there is a different van outside your house every night. Even more so when there is anti-social behaviour.

Selfishly, I am interested in how this situation develops as I picked up a camper in March, with the purpose of enabling me and the family to enjoy doing stuff across Scotland, eg see there's decent weather forecast in eg West Highlands, head over there at short notice without needing too much planning. As opposed to always booking accommodation weeks ahead, therefore condemning weather to be mince...

I was generally assuming it would generally be easy enough to either get a campsite at short notice or find somewhere out of the way to park up for the night, without too much hassle. So far I have struggled to find camp sites with space in places we want to go - so the only way we have been able to use the van has been finding out of the way spots. But we haven't tried in the popular areas because of the congestion and lack of site availability - I don't want to be part of the problem.

So from both a selfish point of view and for the local communities, I do think there needs to be a solution where this is managed. Assuming we are experiencing a peak this year/last year, due to limited foreign travel, then it might be expected to ease a bit? - so with some sensible policies protecting the communities - and simple facilities (Aires) - there should be a workable solution that encourages and manages the tourism more effectively.

Absolutely, being fully paid-up middle-class-camping-van-****ers, we'd have been all over the local farm shops, organic butchers and artisan bakers 🙂

and brewers, and distillers...

Loch Lomond laybys have been rammed for weeks, Glen Etive is a tip and whoever 'invented' the NC500 needs a repeated hoofing to the knackers. Skye, Oban and the Cairngorms are also hoaching more than usual. Whilst the baw isn't quite fully burst on the right to roam and camp, there's now so much pressure on the most popular areas that national restrictions can't be too far away. Yes, there is increased income for some locals and perhaps continental style Aires would help sanitation issues but current levels of visitor numbers are surely unsustainable? Anyone who thinks they are 'wild camping' in a CV / RV / MH needs to read up on the current SOAC. It's genuinely sad for those who have roamed responsibly for years but if this continues, the whole country may end up as a 'camping management zone', ignored by the neds and with only the law abiding missing out.

To be honest as a tent camper (with family) I have found scotland quite hard to find campsites compared to England and Wales. Seemed to be mainly caravan sites or massive commercial ones if they do take tents much less small sites that take tents.

@downshep agree the nc500 thing has ruined it.

They're trying to do other ones the SW and a mid point one.

I've found its driven the responsible tourists away and left the ****s and people who aren't really outdoorsy which leads to behaviour problems.

Saw a thing on FB from visit hebrides and I commented that they'll run the risk of the NC500 issues. Got a reply saying never we are on a boat crossing so cant get too busy....

2mths later complaining about over crowding and poor behaviour... I pointed them back to their it wont happen comment.

I think the explosion in hire Van's hasn't helped. If they made a condition of hire you needed to use a site I think that would go a long way to stopping some issues that occur through ignorance rather than malice

I do agree with you on that, absolutely, but to be honest it’s questionable if any of them bring any financial benefit to the area they’re in. The cat is out the bag though, they ain’t going away, infrastructure is required to milk it and improve the whole situation.

^that.

To be honest as a tent camper (with family) I have found scotland quite hard to find campsites compared to England and Wales. Seemed to be mainly caravan sites or massive commercial ones if they do take tents much less small sites that take tents.

Which reminds me of the evening spent on a campsite with LD of this parish - while we smelly canoeists brewed up some pasta over a trangia and a Vango 200, the nearest 'caravan'* owner was pulling out full BBQ, table, chef's hat and sharpening knives. His wife was installing the 67.3" TV, brought in the second car in the front of the 'caravan'*.

*caravan = 4 wheeled, mahoooosive shed with en-suite....

I feel for you guys. with the NC500. Looks hell and destroys what we have been coming to Scotland for years for (well me at least, partner visits family). I think Bhutan has the right idea, although it would exclude me in a different way!

His wife was installing the 67.3″ TV, brought in the second car in the front of the ‘caravan’*.

Goes on holiday, watches tv. I'm a member of a few Facebook camping groups and I am amazed at the number of people for whom electric is considered a basic site facility. ITs something that has never even occurred to us! Different strokes for different fokes I know but surprised when in that bubble how much oa majority they are

Part of the problem is us scots see tourists as a nuisance, as opposed to the cash cow they should be.

Our island community means that 'peak' season means a long queue outside the Co-Op to find the shelves bare - fresh fruit and veg are non-existent and even basic staples like baked beans are sold out. However, online supermarket delivery doesn't exist; the ferries are fully-booked for the next month so a day trip to Oban is out of the question therefore the only option is a 4 hour, 4 ferry, 100 mile round trip to Fort William - down £50 in fuel and ferries before you've even spent anything.

How can we 'milk' the cash cow when many fill up their vehicles with petrol and food before arriving and are reluctant to pay to use facilities?
10 years of austerity and now COVID means that councils have no funding to build or maintain facilities - some public toilets aren't open and bin collections inadequate.

I'm of the view that there needs to be a levy/ permit for camper vans and motorhomes. Proceeds are use to pay for new facilities and a Ranger service to patrol the areas. I'm a camper van owner - I wouldn't mind paying a quid or two each night knowing that it is helping improve facilities.

I think the explosion in hire Van’s hasn’t helped. If they made a condition of hire you needed to use a site I think that would go a long way to stopping some issues

The mechanic I take my van to also services vdubs for a local hire company. Last time I was talking to him someone had just totalled the front suspension by parking off road. 000s £ of damage and lost bookings. Apparently folks are given some guidance but…

Our island community means that ‘peak’ season means a long queue outside the Co-Op to find the shelves bare – fresh fruit and veg are non-existent and even basic staples like baked beans are sold out. However, online supermarket delivery doesn’t exist; the ferries are fully-booked for the next month so a day trip to Oban is out of the question therefore the only option is a 4 hour, 4 ferry, 100 mile round trip to Fort William – down £50 in fuel and ferries before you’ve even spent anything.

How can we ‘milk’ the cash cow when many fill up their vehicles with petrol and food before arriving and are reluctant to pay to use facilities?

I'm confused, are they buying stuff or not?

A toll on the Kessock bridge, camper vans/caravans/RV's pay based on size of vehicle, cars take the open lane, they can get a permit in advance to display in the windscreen and drive on through.

The money collected is sent to highland councils to do whatever they want, and visitors are reminded that this should not raise expectations of free parking facilities, they come because it's wild, not a free holiday park with vehicle access, councils can decide how they play that.

I am of course as guilty as them/everyone else, I camp wild(tent) where I can but prefer not to be seen, but often it's a campsite, we all want the spontaneity, nip off for a weekend, park up in a wild place overlooking the sea or whatever, then hypocritically get hacked off when others want to do the same thing, there are some that really rip it though, a 30' long RV for 2 OAP's? is that really necessary?

The long and short of it is there is no wilderness left to explore, not in a motor vehicle at least, and now that tens of thousands have invested a small mortgage in a new camper they aint taking any foreign holidays for a while.

Sorry about being negative, I just don't see a solution that restores it back to the thing that made it so appealing in the first place.

A toll on the Kessock bridge,

I’m pretty sure the Black Isle isn’t actually an island 🙂

if van owners don’t want to pay site fees and instead endure the inconvenience of life without conveniences then they’re not going to pay a toll when there’s a scenic detour to be had.

they’ve paid tens of thousands of pounds buying into the fantasy of being free and easy

They did the same down here with "The Coig", the Cumbrae ferry was bad enough with day trippers as it was but now the town gets crippled on a sunny weekend. Again, they were warned but did they listen?

RET has a lot to answer for as well. It was great for islanders but equally meant more fannies taking vehicles to islands with not enough facilities.

My folks did the NC500 before it existed. Stupid 7m caravan, couldn't reverse it for shit but hardly saw a soul. Utterly ruined. I remember parking overnight in laybys when I was a boy (about 30 years ago), that's the complete point of mororhomes but there's a point where there's no more room and something has to give. Folk dumping toilets and rubbish though, that's just wrong on so many levels.

I just don’t see a solution that restores it back to the thing that made it so appealing in the first place.

midges

Up til now it’s the midges that have stopped the highlands being like the Lake District. People will learn that life in a van in Scotland actually is life IN a van for much of the time either because the weather is too bad or because the weathers too good.

I’m confused, are they buying stuff or not?

Some are, some aren't but the huge numbers + Brexit haulage difficulties means that the only food shop in town is struggling and often has little stock.

I cycle loch lomond once a week . usually sunday morning
both sides at the moment are very busy and looking like a shit hole to be honest,
balloch would be a no go,
best to get futher away , there is a motor home stop over at tarbet across from hotel, in betwen tarbet and arrochar is another one at the slanj. two places in the car park at the far end of helensburgh beside the park , all of these are better options than balloch . tyndrum has a pop up site if you go further on . my best advice would be the slanj , get up early and get passed the road to crainlarich , or take the alternative route past inveraray. its a better drive ,

if van owners don’t want to pay site fees and instead endure the inconvenience of life without conveniences then they’re not going to pay a toll when there’s a scenic detour to be had.

And another on the A862...£2 off.

I’m confused, are they buying stuff or not?

if you drive up the A9 Inverness Tesco is well positioned for refueling, that's often all you need till you pass it again on the way home(I do this in a car) it's also a bit cheaper because it's tesco and not one guy trying to pay rent selling Mars bars and lighters.
And when you stop you can go for a coffee, stretch the legs, buy all the supplies you need for a week, your favourite wine(because you won't get that at the Coop) and some fancy cheese and anything your heart desires.
Of course those living in the highlands drive down and do that too so I'm not attacking anyone for it, it's just the way it is, that one Tesco store probably absorbs a fair chunk of the whole highland retail market, it's not just every town center that is starved of shops now due to supermarkets.

So you get an economic double whammy, the money is spent south of the Kessock bridge because their favourite wine is not in the highland shops or is more expensive, and the highland shops don't have the footfall to compete anyway...in a cyclical sort of way.

@squirrelking I've seen the coig loads of times on social media, didn't have a clue what it was!.

Ah, the Ailsa Craig thing? brilliant, love it, what is it?

See, another one that hasn't a clue! Apparently it's 5 wee touring routes around Ayrshire and the Clyde islands.

Who knew?! 🙈🤣

Dovebiker +1

Interesting times. Not a campervan owner but we've holidayed up in Scotland a number of times. Ranging from Loch Fyne, Loch Lomond and the Cairngorms.

We're up this week staying just outside of Crianlarich. Roads seem much much busier than previous years and lots of tape/no parking signs up on roads near lochs. Speaking to the owners of the accommodation (part of a larger sight) they're saying that's it's been crazy busy this season, they think due to foreign travel restrictions. Also spoken to some other holiday makers and this is the first time they've been up here and would usually go abroad.

So in some respects great for the local economy but does seem kinda busy.

Apparently it’s 5 wee touring routes around Ayrshire and the Clyde islands.

Who knew?! 🙈🤣

I only know because the usual idiots were ****ing themselves into a coma over it on Facebook.

Aye, go tae Millport, spend 2 hours in a ferry queue, drive ten minutes, have an ice cream, drive another ten minutes, wait another 2 hours, **** off home. Brilliant. Not like there's a bus over there.

They also tried to promote the Brisbane Glen. The lovely feature @trail_rat camped next to a few years back was only removed this year (burnt out Discovery Sport IIRC).

Best avoid Brisbane glen in the camper van then.

Part of the problem is us scots see tourists as a nuisance, as opposed to the cash cow they should be.

There has to be opportunity for locals to sell stuff to these campervans. Even things like “10 quid and I take your rubbish” or a bag full of beer etc.

No way people will pay £10 to drop rubbish! They can pretend to be responsible by dropping it in/beside a public litter bin. They can actually be responsible by driving through a local recycling centre. They can fling it over a fence when no one is looking. Even if you persuade someone they should pay £10 to say fill their water, drop their waste and park up on spare ground for the night - the neighbour who isn’t getting this but still gets disturbed by the van reversing, doors slamming, kids shouting, BBQ smoke blowing in their window, etc will probably report you for not having a waste transfer license! Similarly if you are selling them beer without a license!

For every entrepreneurial sole who might find a way to milk a little bit of value out of the tourist there is someone who isn’t getting the money (and possibly doesn’t want it anyway - nobody is getting rich on £10/night for the summer season).

Turns out that away from the hotspots Scotland is still quiet enough.

Glenshee was quiet, just about in to the third row of cars in the car park. Ballater yesterday had a nice vibe to it, we did Heartbreak Ridge and only saw 2 other people riding and about 4 walkers. And now at Glenlivet trails, about 5 vans here and still very quiet.

Actually Ballater was lovely, we’ll be back, hopefully before the summer is out.

I don’t think I’ve seen any of these places promoted on any of the routes, which is presumably why they’re not rammed.

We did stop at some parking just outside Tomintoul as I thought there was a toilet there, it was bird hide, and there were 5 vans and a family setting up a big tent. Nowhere left for the bird watchers to park, which is presumably why the car park exists. This is the problem and what upsets people. I wouldn’t consider staying somewhere like that, but some people just don’t care / don’t consider others.