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We’ll be getting a new van later this year, will probably be doing a DIY conversion moving our current interior over and adding extra bits.
BUT
Before I commit to that does anyone have any recommendations for converters that might do a decent job of a van with a fixed bed for bike storage underneath, shower & toilet in a Ducato van?
Or any vans for sale?
Seems like most off the shelf stuff doesn’t cater for people who like to take stuff with them.
Cheers
Look up race van or race truck instead of camper. You'll find lots more then.
Cheers I’ve found a few, their range from complete tat to about £50k for vans with 50k+ miles on...
Like this one
Yes, they do, which is why I'm making my own (and also because there weren't many 4-berth/4-bike layouts)
I had a friend do the vast majority of our L4H3 Relay conversion last year. I just got very lucky and he happened to be inbetween jobs and has done 6 van conversions for friends/family.
We had the same challenge in that we wanted garage for bikes under a fixed bed but also needed to sleep 2 adults and 2 children. Quite a challenge once you get down to it! We paid about £12k for a 2 year old van and then probably that again on the conversion (split between parts and labour). I can share some pics of the layout if it helps. The main thing for us was getting an L4H3 so we had enough space for a kids bed at the front above the seats. The other kids bed is above our feet in the back. I imagine both would be ok up until about 8 years old but after that it would be getting tight.
I think the DIY route can work if you have a workshop/garage and you have plenty of time to get things done. There are a couple of small things I would have changed but my friend did the conversion in about 5 weeks so it was ready for a trip to the alps! That was priceless!
Good luck.
Cheers, always happy to see what others have done @unclesomebody
I've converted 4 vans over the years so I'm not adverse to doing it, our current T5 has the (excellent) Amdro Angel kit in it, I really want to use that in the front and build a bed behind it.
However do have the option of selling our van complete and maybe handing the new van over to someone else.
Went the a large outdoor /camper trade fair the other week in the hope of seeing something inspiring, but it was all a bit beige.
Am also looking at a Ducato L3H2 or L4 (which oddly in Germany are L4 and L5 respectively).
Bikes are ~ 1550mm long and need 900mm clearance with the front wheel off. That leaves you with ~1000mm above for a bed with a width of ~1600 if you sleep across the back.
Will do it myself as I don't like the typical "camper" look and I've not seen anything layout wise that works for me. We don't need to carry more than the two of us for a start....
We ended up doing our own as the wait time was too long for us and deep down we wanted to.
However, we were impressed with mark1 conversions and their willingness and experience of doing all sorts....
It was a 6month wait when we visited a few years ago though!
A couple of friends of mine do conversions. Really interesting and different to most conversions you see.
They're both vanlifeists and Dan, is a mountainbiker too.
Based in Warwick.
Have a look at this for ideas
> http://www.moto-trek.co.uk/products/tornado
Cheers
Went the a large outdoor /camper trade fair the other week in the hope of seeing something inspiring, but it was all a bit beige.
We went to the Scottish one and thought the same. Out of all the vans we looked at there was 1 that so nearly but wouldn’t quite work, the bed wasn’t quite high enough to fit bikes under. It was also £65,000.
@alpin we’re also looking for a L3H2 - I want to stay under 6m, as that will fit easily on the drive with no messing and seems to be a threshold for ferry & train prices.
We ended up doing our own as the wait time was too long for us and deep down we wanted to.
However, we were impressed with mark1 conversions and their willingness and experience of doing all sorts….
It was a 6month wait when we visited a few years ago though!
I’ll check them out thanks. I think we want to do it ourselves too, but part of me doesn’t want the hassle as I know we’ll be doing it over winter on the drive 🥶
A couple of friends of mine do conversions. Really interesting and different to most conversions you see.
Lovely looking work, probably not what we’re after though. I do wonder though when I see all the wood cladding how close to the weight limit they are?
If you are down south OP Andy at www.revampavan.co.uk in Christchurch does a good job on all van conversions, specialises in normal VW T5/T6 stuff but has done bespoke stuff for us inc. for taking bikes. Takes ages as they are so busy there but good work done.
We are dropping off our T6 at Not Just Campers in Wakefield for a bespoke conversion next week (beyond excited, been saving for ages). Andi has been recommended by a friend and has been super helpful - not phased by our questions. Check out his stuff on IG/FB but if you are this general direction it would be worth getting in touch with him.
If you are down south OP
Unfortunately not, 30 minutes from Glasgow!
@ahsat exciting times, enjoy the van when you get it back 👍
Some of better converters are the likes of RaceSpace, SC, RC, Etc.
But, they are really expensive. We have been looking at building on an XLWB Crafter/Sprinter & don’t want something that looks like your typical ‘home conversion’ but dropping £50-60k on one hurts 🙂
There are lots of smaller converters, and have seen a few, for what they charge I’d rather spend the extra.
I absolutely don’t have the time or inclination to DIY - and were trying to move house, so priorities at the moment rather than taking on more to do!
My existing van is about to be scrapped due a expensive knock so just about to do a new van so watching with interest. getting the toilet in seems the hardest part and essential apparently. Have a look at race space vans for ideas. really interested in layouts and photos for 4 birth sleeping and 5 seats for travelling.
I've been round this block as well after having my towbar cut off my California (!) i vowed to never leave my bikes on the van ever again. The base vehicle is the trick and deciding what length you can live with. 6M is a push for more than 2 people, beds etc and bike space inside. 7M starts to get fruity for parking etc. I looked at all sorts of conversion, rented HYmercar (Grand Canyon S and Yosemite), Swift white boxes etc etc. Everything is a compromise. Big things are payload for sure esp on converted vans. Ideally i'd have built a 4m VW Crafter but they are really narrow esp as they taper in at the roof so a high bed is a stretch, ditto on Sprinter hence Hymercar have pushed out window inserts. Long story short I ended up with a cheap Swift 695 escape minus the bottom bunk so has a decent garage, 3 of us can sleep in it, it has hot water a bog and a shower and while a PITA for some things when weather is rubbish its a gem.
Interesting NZ. I have a T6 panel which I am converting and my mate has a 695 like yours. I think once finished mine will have some advantages in terms of drive-ability and "stealth" but I think I will quite soon sell it and go for something like yours. As you say its all a compromise.
. I do wonder though when I see all the wood cladding how close to the weight limit they are?
I thought the same.... It all looks solid, but also like it weighs a bit. Surely lightweight is key. (that couple also appear to be your average, vapid Instagram vanlife types.... Sorry!)
hence Hymercar have pushed out window inserts. Long st
Which to me looks like a shit solution. Why not buy a vehicle that you can sleep sideways in or adjust the layout? A friend has a sprinter converted by hymer. Never understood why, seeing he's a good chippy. The van just looks very Meh. No love.
Regarding length, I'm not so concerned about ferries and tolls, but rather negotiating winding roads and not being able to explore so much.
I use a xl iveco at work occasionally. It's almost the same length as a 7.5t truck...
Don't need a shower inside the van. Hang a sheet between the rear doors if you need privacy and use biological soap. Same goes for an on board toilet. A shovel, a lighter (to burn off the poo-less paper and a stroll work for me....
Half way down this page you'll find van designs to scale which may help with planning..... You can download I think.
Have printed a few out, drawn items (fridge /bed /worktop & sink) to scale and move then about to get an idea of what works.
https://sportsmobile.com/planning-and-ordering/#design-your-own
My Nieces fiancee Steve James has just started up a camper conversion buisness, they also do rentals.
He's pretty handy on a bike as well 😉
http://www.cherrycampers.co.uk/#
Yeah I agree the rear pushouts look a bit weird but they do actually provide useful space. One thing I will say about Hymer having used 3 different types of their vans is they are incredibly well put together and also very light. I severely doubt a conversion could be done as cleanly or as lgihtweight as they do them. The GRand Canyon S on the new Sprinter was a lovey van to drive and with the pop roof very usable for 4 people. But 70 grand !
If there is you and 1 other then you can survive in a small van, things change if you have kids and/or live somewhere where it pisses down for days on end.
@alpin - the pushouts are a clever solution. Anyone over 5'10" will struggle with a transverse bed in a panel van and the extra width is only required when in bed or relaxing, i.e. when you're no driving. This is a space saving feature as a lengthways bed takes up too much room in the van.
With pushouts you get a longer bed (2m) when needed but standard van width when moving around so you can get down that narrow road to reach the beach/trailhead/car park etc.
Aha.... Didn't realise there are collapsible ones. The ones I've seen (and my mate has on his van) are fixed.
Ducato/jumper has a width of 1870mm above the wheel arches.
The other thing that puts me off a sprinter/crafter is the rust. Have two sprinters at work and both has rust coming through the paint despite being circa 2 years old.
Alpin, the catch with transverse beds is that if you want a usable garage height, the bed length reduces as the walls lean in. More vans are coming with straighter sides now, I managed to just about get 6' in my Iveco with a 900mm garage but I had to do some fairly drastic cutting of the interior steelwork and then frame it out, the insulation is about 12mm and the thinnest ply I could get away with. Even the height of my 12cm mattress brings the width down half an inch!
The only reason I had the confidence to chop this out is because they cut this out on the factory fitted minibuses to fit a window.
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that couple also appear to be your average, vapid Instagram vanlife types…. Sorry!)
They are in no way 'vapid', incredibly popular and booked up for the foreseeable. Seemingly having 30 odd thousand Instagram followers might just be how it's done these days. Also, they're friends of mine, so I'm duty bound to say up yours pal! 👆
😝 Sorry, kayak....!
Alpin, the catch with transverse beds is that if you want a usable garage height, the bed length reduces as the walls lean in.
Yup.... Unless you look at a Ducato /Relay /Boxer....
I find the iveco cabin space really really small. The adjustment on the driver's seat is tiny. My fat friend refuses to drive it.
Also, the empty weight of them is high due to the ladder frame construction,reducing the amount of kit you can carry (my licence only goes to 3,5t).
Yup…. Unless you look at a Ducato /Relay /Boxer….
+1
We've got a 6'2" high level transverse bed in our Relay. That's the length measured on top of a 5" mattress and a Froli bed base over a clear 940mm high garage. There's at least an inch of insulation underneath and at each end, too.
These vans are over 2m wide between the body panels - the quoted 1870mm is the clear space between the body frames. There's enough clearance that you can get a 4'6" bed in between the frames.
Sprinter/Crafter, Transit or Daily are *much* narrower above ~waist height.
Good to know the Ducato is truly square on the inside, the latest Transits look like they also stay wide.
Unfortunately I needed a 3.5t towing capacity which leaves you with a mega expensive Sprinter, or cheaper Iveco. Both of which are not the widest. Ladder frame is great for underslung tanks though 🙂
Front wheel drive and a short exhaust is also great for under slung tanks....
the quoted 1870mm is the clear space between the body frames.
Prefect..... I'm 175cm... Loads of space for insulation.... 😁
We’ve got a 6’2″ high level transverse bed in our Relay. That’s the length measured on top of a 5″ mattress and a Froli bed base over a clear 940mm high garage. There’s at least an inch of insulation underneath and at each end, too.
Don't suppose you've got any photos of your van for reference?
Don’t suppose you’ve got any photos of your van for reference?
Not many. I've whittled it down to about 1,800 😀
I've started putting them on a website, but only about half way through, and it's a bit of a mess at the moment:
https://www.misterg.org.uk/camper-van-build.html
Some piccies:
More internal pics:
Froli bed
More garage:
Very nice, want to come and build mine??
Re inlay for sale for you we. 29995 for a19995 van #vanlife
Very nice
Thanks 🙂
...want to come and build mine??
Ha ha - yes, when I get another year to spare 😀
Re inlay for sale for you we. 29995 for a19995 van #vanlife
Pardon?
Formatting on this place has gone to shit on my phone since the reboot.
What i see on my phone and what comes up in the final post don't always tally. Its happened 3/4 times where it decides to mash it up.
Anyway the van in the link is a15k base mini bus being generous .
It has tops 5k of kit in it and a pretty naff /wasted space layout
Priced at 29995.....some tasty profit in #vanlife
We have a ducato based one and can sleep very comfortably on the transverse bed. It has the big advantage of leaving alot more living space to use as you see fit
@tily.... Good job. What fork mounts did you use?
I also want the bed closed off from the rear doors so that I can fiddle without a draft going through, but was thinking of designing the wall so that it can either fold down or out.
@trail_rat - is every van you didn't build completely shit?
You've built your own and pop up on every van thread to offer "advice" yet I'm still waiting for a positive comment from you...... Yawn
I thought he bought the iveco.....
He does often have a (not always) valid point.
@tily…. Good job. What fork mounts did you use?
Ta - the bike mount is based on a Minoura Vergo Excel, which is fine for traditional road bikes, and will take 12 and 15mm through axles with adaptors. HOWEVER there's not enough room to tighten the through axles without swivelling the adaptor every time, which becomes a problem as the rack fills up. So I made ~40mm high risers for the Minoura mounts which work OK. There's also a Delta fork mount which comes with adaptors for all sorts of through axle, including the 150mm hub on my fat bike. This is just screwed into a T nut in the Minoura channel (with a lever handle from ebay).
The concept of a free standing bike mount works well IMHO - it's easy to shuffle it about to cater for different scenarios, or to get rid of completely if necessary. I'd contemplate a completely homebrew version along similar lines if I did it again.
I also arranged the garage so I could just sling a single bike in without taking the wheels off (ideal for muddy night rides). This proved to be surprisingly difficult to achieve (hence the water heater hanging from the bed, rather than sat on the floor), but very nice to have.
Our rear wall contains the insulation (the garage isn't insulated - I couldn't be doing with all the faffing around the wheel-arches and rear pillars, so just insulated the bed base and the bulkheads instead). The wall also acts as the support for the bed base - the rear of the bed hangs from the roof of the van via the back wall, rather than being supported from below. One of the van builds on youtube (like than narrows it down!) has a fold down panel in a similar rear wall, and I've seen another with a window in the rear wall lined up with a window in the rear doors. I've wondered about doing something similar but haven't felt the urge yet. It's a MWB (L2) van, so when you're lying in bed, you get a great view out of the side door if it's open.
👍
I've got the delta mounts. Not disappointing, tbh.
Not sure I'd bother insulating the garage space either. You win a little extra space for the bikes that way, too. The mattress and the rear wall act as insulation.
Thinking L3 or L4, more space for lounging.
Nice build!
I guess either you have not seen the 30k van in the link or you built the 30k van in the link.
The mattress and the rear wall act as insulation.
Condensation?
Well now I know you didn't see it because the link is dead
But for those that don't follow links or don't read all posts .
There was a link to an advert for a mega over priced van . I wasn't commenting on Tilly dogs build which is actually one of the best I've seen by far.
Now that didn't hurt did it.. You said something nice about a van you didn't build.
😜
As alpin points out I didn't build mine.
I'm as critical of my own van as well. There almost nothing in my van done the way I want it....other than the solar panel set up, the fancy windows and the dunny (which I'm glad someone else built as before I had it I didn't appreciate the issues of not having a dunny on board and popular spots and wouldn't have fitted one)
6m van is the sweet spot /sideways bed /rear belted seats. Wouldn't fit an fiamma awning on the side again ,
How ever for more pimpy vans go see Glenn Comyns at boneyard campers in the borders.
Thanks 🙂
The mattress [...] act as insulation.
I wouldn't do that, because you'll end up with
Condensation
The underside of the mattress needs to be ventilated / heated to the same as the top side. If it isn't, you get horrible condensation problems. Even if the garage is insulated and common to the rest of the van, you can get condensation problems if the amount of stuff under the bed stops air circulating. (Worst of all, if you put the mattress against a solid board (Trent and Allie q.v.).
We were going to use Ikea slats to allow ventilation under the mattress, but saw and tried the Froli system & Mrs. Tillydog decided that it was more comfortable.
The bed base itself is a hollow section with PIR insulation inside.
My bulkhead is insulated but the mattress just sits on open slats which is fine as it can air, even though the garage is cold. I put some ply under my half as I found memory foam mattresses are not really suited to slats, you end up sinking! No mould problems after a year.
@trail_rat - I'll stop teasing you now 😉
Why don't you like Fiamma awnings? We find ours great on hot days and had a lot of meals under it in the rain. They're a small pain when the wind picks up.
The awnings I've seen and used always seem to be a bit flexy and almost a liability in wind.
A tarp attached to either the roof rack or roof using suckers works for me. A lot cheaper, too.
Plus you can set up the tarp independently and means you don't have to have the camper look.
Only flexy if you don't secure them right.
Mines has been grand through some right wind.....but then the legs are attached to brackets rivinuted to the van providing triangulation.
My issue with it is --its 700+ quid for a fixed shelter on the side.
At a number of events -the side is the least Convienant place for such an item.
I bought mine used for 90 quid but if I'd paid full price Id probably have cried.
A pop up gazebo would probably we the way I went next time.
We've got a tie-down kit and a roof rafter for the awning which makes it very stable at additional cost (~£75). Fiamma will sell you anything if you're daft enough to buy it!
This is the 2nd unit as the first one broke in a massive thunderstorm in the Black Forest. In the UK they are less useful but when in Europe the better weather makes them invaluable.
We fitted one last year, it’s had loads of use. Great in France in the heat and great in Scotland in the rain.
No rafter but have some big straps for it to hold it down. Pack it away in proper wind which is their only downfall.
I’ll be putting another one on the next van.
No problems with ours. It has been through some big winds with no problems. We always anchor it down with the storm strap and two big tent pegs and never use it without the centre rafter.
We have no issue with wind.
Its more that we use the van to go to events. And it's rather selfish to take up 4.5m(is 2 spots) of the "limited" parking
It would be nicer to have the ability to have the shelter at the rear or front of the van .
Not an issue if you are using campsites with sizable allocated lots.
Tend to agree with you on events, however taking up any extra space is been inconsiderate. Whether that's a side, front or back canopy/awning. Gazebo or tent.
Every event we have been to all the above have been scattered about with no thought for anyone else.
I've even seen parking marshalls being given grief when they have politely pointed it out.
The worst in my opinion is the continual running of engines late at night or early morning to top up van batteries. Running generators through the night are also a pain
Sorry about digressing from the topic