[Closed] Camper Van choices - help me out!

Any comments on depreciation on these things

Generally pretty low, but then you're buying at the peak of the market, so your depreciation will be much more.

Which won't matter much, unless you have kids aged around 5 or 6 at present?

In which case you'll be selling it in 7 years to buy something bigger.

Owner of a T5 for the last 16 years.

Startline trim doesn't usually have cruise control which might be a deal breaker for a campervan.

Camper King not known to be the best convertor, they don't insulate their vans. But I have a mate with one who's been very happy with it

I have a highline Kombi, definitely wouldn't have wanted a startline. The spec inside is much nicer. But if you don't mind then £5k is a big chunk and lots of other campers are startline spec

Depending on where you are, you may want to check whether they’ve been reclassified as a passenger car (or whatever) after the conversion.

There’s a clean air zone been introduced into the town where I live and lots of people with camper conversions and ‘lifestyle’ vans are complaining because they’re still classed as commercial vehicles and therefore subject to the charges.

Why a VW/Tranny size? gonna be a daily driver? at that budget you'll get a decent motorhome.

If you don't need it imminently, I'd wait and see if the bubble bursts.

You've said yourself they are selling like hotcakes at the mo.

We've been looking, but at bigger vans.

Bottom line, it has to have a shower & toilet and 'proper' sized vehicles cost barely more than vans.

Plus a garage, no way do I want bikes outside with the constant worry of them 'disappearing'.

We've been looking a while now. its just the two of us but we've concluded a VW T is just too small to go very far or for more than a couple of days. Now looking at motorhomes and even though they are less fashionable you do get a lot more bang for your buck.

Gonna rent this year for a couple of weeks and see how we get on with it. Then, if we are still into it, gonna buy at a later date once the bubble bursts.

Bottom line, it has to have a shower & toilet and ‘proper’ sized vehicles cost barely more than vans.

Plus a garage, no way do I want bikes outside with the constant worry of them ‘disappearing’.

Sounds like you need a house. 😉

I’m lucky enough to be in a position to treat us to a Camper

How many is “us”?

VW sized camper is cramped for 2, would be a bit of a mission for >2.

If you haven’t done campervanning before, then it might be worth hiring for a week to see how you get on with the size / space limitations. See a lot of VW sized campers so crammed to the gills with ‘stuff’ that they need to be emptied before you can get in the back.

If you’re contemplating taking bikes, think about how happy you’d be with leaving them outside the van overnight.

Bought a T6 highline conversion in March for same as you’ve got to spend (roughly). 2017 van with 20k miles on it so not new but great condition and lots of extras.

Was also waiting to see if bubble burst but decided life is simply too short.

Did look at motorhomes too but did not like the driving, parking and storage issues that came with a motorhome. T6 drives well and whilst we do have other cars it is perfectly usable as a daily driver..

Basically whatever you go for it will always be a compromise of some sort so you’ve just got to decide what’s important for you and recognise that, and you’ll be golden. Personally we’re delighted with our choice and looking forwards to longer trips.

You’re very lucky so enjoy whatever you do decide on!

See a lot of VW sized campers so crammed to the gills with ‘stuff’ that they need to be emptied before you can get in the back.

This is just as likely people taking a load of bulky shite with them as the van being too small.

Or people who've compromised on size for longer trips so that they have a reasonable daily driver.

When we are on longer trips we'll having walking kit, running kit, swimming kit (Inc wetsuits), packrafts, PFDs, helmets etc. That soon fills a small campervan {Trafic in our case). Being well organised with rainproof storage boxes and a wee tent or awning makes life easier once we arrive at our site / destination.

This is just as likely people taking a load of bulky shite with them as the van being too small.

Erm. People generally take "bulky shite" with them because they need it to fulfil the purpose of the trip, or because the bulky shite is too young to be left at home unsupervised.

Kind of defeats the purpose of getting a van to go on adventures with unless you can take your adventuring kit with you.

I have a Camper King converted T5.1 and I'm really happy with it.
The insulation seems fine, it's always toasty warm but then I do have an Eberspacher night heater which is great too.
Camper King warranty their conversion so long as you do their 'habitation check'. I didn't buy it from them but they've done various bits of work under that warranty and I'm really pleased with.
I'm not overly familiar with the different specs, but air conditioning was a must for me. I had cruise control retro-fitted. I also had Camper Kings off-grid kit fitted which consists of a second leisure battery and a solar panel charging system, as well as the Eberspacher.
What engine did the donor vehicle have ? If it's the 180ps Bi-Turbo CFCA engine, start running, and don't stop.
I've had it four years I think, and I'm pretty confident I would get back what I paid and spent on it if I sold it. It's definately a seller's market out there at the moment.
Hope that's helpful.

On engines mine has the 150hp and I’ve got a tdi tuning box too, which gives it a bit more oomph. A lot of vans seem to be 102hp which I personally think would be pretty hopeless but ymmv..

100% hire one first. With the madness over buying them this year that advice goes double, so many shonky old vans with big wheels and lockdown DIY conversions done.

A traditional side layout, pop top T5 or similar is easy to find for a hire, see if the novelty wears off. I don't mean to put you off if that's what you've always dreamed of but there can be challenges particularly once you go past 2 people and minimal stuff. Have a really good think about what you want from it - dayvan, weekends away, big tours, drive somewhere far away and stay for a couple of weeks? Need to take bikes, paddleboards, other bits? Are you going to need to plonk an attached tent next to it just to have room to move inside?

Erm. People generally take “bulky shite” with them because they need it to fulfil the purpose of the trip,

I'm looking across at a couple right now with an awning on their transporter that's about the size of an 8 man tent, two tables, 4 different chairs, a firepit thing and a toilet tent. Each to their own but for me that's quite a lot of bulky shite!

I'm not suggesting people don't take the things they need for their activities, just that with a bit of thought and organisation you can get away with less stuff and therefore a smaller van. But as said upthread, it's a personal choice/usage thing.

I have one from Expedition Campers - it's Camperkings other brand, brother of the CK owner. They do the same conversions but with slightly older vans. Quality of the conversion is on par with all the other outfits I looked at. I go away 12-14 times a year, and had it 3 years. Holding up very well, no major wear and tear.

I also looked at the insulation thing before buting - VW Californias don't have it either. There seems to be a split on the issue, with some thinking that the issulation is just somewhere for water to get stuck in and mould to follow. I've camped at -10 and wasn't at all cold, heater wasn't on all night either.

We have a VW T6 Highline converted, bought new last September. Actually ordered in May but took time to source and then convert. We were actually offered £4K more than we paid for it when it went for a service a couple of weeks ago.
We have a zip and go tent, so ideal if staying in a location for a few days. Gives a lot more space. We have room to pack a decent sized bbq, blow up bed, table and 4 good comfy chairs, plus all the clothes we need. Thats for the four of us. But I wouldn’t take the 4 of us without the tent or when the weather could be bad.
We use camping sites, so we use the on site toilets and showers.
The VW fits our lifestyle. My preference would be a larger motor home with all the luxuries, but it just wouldn’t fit in with how we use the VW. I use it a fair amount shuttling kids around, even going to a nice quiet place to work for a few hours.
Our insulation isn’t great, November over nighter was cold when the top was popped. Mine is just the thin standard canvas though. We do have the heater that runs from Diesel, but I don’t like that running to long.

Experiences as an eleven-year T5 SWB, non-poptop, camper owner, who spent six months travelling across Europe in it, plus many and various weekend, week and two-weeks trips here and abroad:

- For two people, SWB van size is fine; in crap weather it's nice and cosy inside, in nice weather you're sitting outside of it anyway
- An awning does make a difference as it does (obviously) give more 'living space', but it doesn't need to be huge, even a small one makes a big difference.
- SWB van size is also easier as a daily driver and for day-trips away from the campsite
- Assuming a decent layout with well thought-out storage, if you can't get all your stuff in, you have too much stuff
- Ours is (I think) 104hp. Well, it was when it was new, it won't be now. It's sits at 75mph happily the motorway, it'll go up big hills but you might need to change down a gear, it's fine; it's a van not an executive sports saloon
- Don't have cruise control, sometimes wish I did, it's no way a deal breaker though.
- With the right layout you can get all your stuff, awning, chairs etc and two road bikes in the van, and be able to get the bed out (Amdro Angel, but may no longer be available)

There was a rally nice looking Vivaro (not the newest shape Citroen one, the previous) LWB parked next to us on site yesterday.
Pop top, the usual looking interior layout except they had converted the very back bit into dog cages and had 7 greyhounds with them! 😳.
Roll out awning on the side, looked to have swivel front seats too. I expect they slept up in the pop top as I’m not sure the R&R bed would still work with the dog cages. Shows you how you can make things work for you if you want.
Mind you, having had a SWB T5, then trailer tent, then compact caravan, then 2 berth coachbuilt Motorhome we are now in a 4 berth caravan with fixed beds and a decent size washroom.
I liked the T5 but it was definitely better for short trips, or for proper active holidays where we weren’t sat in the van for ages. It got a little wearing playing campervan Tetris with all our stuff and I never really liked having to have the bikes locked to the outside whilst we were sleeping. But we had it for 4 years and barely lost any money on it.

We just picked up our van last week, we bought a base Ducato and had it converted by Vantage in Telford. Brand new van (with auto box) and conversion hasn't come in much over your budget, depending on fit out we could have got ours under but we wanted fixed toilet, water & blown air heater, full awning and a bit more in the way of windows.

Vantage were great because they were happy to work with us on custom design so ours seats and sleeps 3, with a garage that will take 3 bikes and SUPs and run off-grid. We've gone LWB (L3 - 6m van) and high top (H2 - 2.5m ish) so I can stand up properly inside. It won't work as a daily driver but will be the weekend activity vehicle.

We've had a T4 SWB when we were just 2 of us, it was fine but you do have to be creative in packing and it was really a metal tent. Had a pop top T5 SWB when hoppy jr was young and it was really hard work on space, bikes were on the back and in the end we sacked it off for a motorhome which was fine for space but it was over an sleeping and we were getting pinged as HGV on the payage in France and 15mpg. Due to the size of ours we did run out of garage space as he got bigger and he moved to a full sized bike.

Sounds like you need a house. 😉

I seriously considered a van a few years ago - and after a day at the camping and caravan show concluded pretty much that! I'd definitely suggest renting one to see how you get on. I think you have to imagine using it with crappy weather. For me one of the issues was all the watersports kit that gets wet an is hard enough to dry in a house.

Velocipede - happy to answer any direct questions you have, I've been buying and selling transporters for 10 years and as part of that do the occasional camper conversion to sell on. I can source or advise on vans/work etc for pretty much anything. Feel free to drop me a pm with any direct questions if it's easier.

Base spec does make a difference but anything can be retrofitted to a startline/base model van on transporters. Even aircon but that'll cost 2-2.5k to have done. Cruise is 250-500 depending on van and if it's just cruise of new multi function steering wheel as part of it.

I have a camper myself, mine is a lwb crafter as that gives me space inside the van for bikes and also shower/toilet. With a solar panel on the roof I can do 5-7days solo without needing anything. It's fine for a couple. Similarly with transporter sized vans space is at a premium inside. My 18 plate 30k mile crafter will be for sale in a couple of months for 46k ish. You get a lot more in a big van for a similar price. If you're near Sheffield (or inners as I'm there this weekend) you're welcome to have a nose just for things to think about.

I'd suggest thinking about how you might use a van, how many people, how long a trip, do you want to be on campsites or not, use all year round or in warmer months etc. They'll impact what would work best for you in terms of camper spec, size etc. Hiring could be a very good idea just to get a feel for things. I'd also recommend looking at as many as you can to get ideas but also a better feel for build quality etc.

it was really a metal tent

True, this is basically how we think of ours.

It's all personal really but my 2p after 6 years

Don't worry about the vehicle spec, it's a holiday machine not a flash car.

We do a couple and 2 dogs, happily go for 2-3 weeks at a time. Ours is lwb. I think switching the dogs for small kids would be doable, but only for short trips.

Did one season with an awning, but it was a faff, I mean, what's the point of having a van if the first thing you do is put up a tent? Also you can't see out the window, so you can't see the scenery. However, some kind of cover from rain is essential, eg a side mounted wind out thing or similar, or every time you open the door stuff gets soaked.

Heaters are good, we used ours last week IN JULY, but they can be fitted later no problem.

Hire one first and see how you get on, preferably in the spring/autumn when the weather is interesting. Because they are not for everyone.

We had a similar sized camper, and it literally drove me mental, with 2 of us, bikes and a dog. No space anywhere. It was basically an insulated tin tent with wheels & no facilities.

We then went totally the other way, and now have an XLWB Crafter by SC, in the classic 'MX Race Van' layout. It's a third vehicle, so no daily driving. However it is essentially a proper full sized motorhome (albeit one in the original frame of the van, and not made of balsa wood).

Would I go back to a small camper? I really don't think I would/could, let alone spend that much on one. We are fortunate that we have a very large parking spot off road, next to the garage with its own separate gate so it just sits there, plugged in until we use it. Not exactly a practical option for most.

I would definitely consider hiring one first.

it was really a metal tent

Agreed - we do similar (LWB T6). Less noisy and don't have to dry it out afterwards. Plus warmer and drier to sit in on a bad day; but really all you can do is sit in it. But we absolutely love it - and it is our only vehicle (neither of us drive to work regularly) and the only thing we can fit on our street. But it only the 2 of us, and things are very carefully planned. Anymore people, or more than 2-3 sports at a time (we can just about get kayaking, biking and walking stuff in), get something bigger.

Why not buy an older T25/T3 camper, try and find one with a Subaru conversion. Saves you money plus it's unlikely to lose as much value as a £40k T6. Yeah it's old and slow but it's a camper, you don't need to do 90mph everywhere. Just relax and enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

We came within inches of buying one about 3 years ago but storage was an issue. I now wish we had just bought it.

what’s the point of having a van if the first thing you do is put up a tent?

This is the wisest thing on this thread.

Just to be clear, the metal tent analogy is not supposed to be derogatory, we loved ours, it went all around the UK and Europe, if we'd stayed as just the 2 of us I doubt we'd have changed too much, but we didn't have showers or toilets so needed to use facilities or a spade.

The new van, despite being quite a bit bigger, doesn't have much more internal space but has the advantage of onboard toilet & shower, water heater & solar with an inverter and onboard wastewater so we can be more flexible. It also has a fixed double and a garage so stuff can be kept secure.

The things to bear in mind at the moment if you look at conversion are lead time and parts availability. No-one has space for the conversions some of the more well known convertors were talking about slots in November at the start of the year and camper parts make bike parts look like they are abundant.

As said above, 40k gets you a very nice motorhome.

I'm currently living in a 6m Rollertem Tline 590. I'd always dreamed of a van/motorhome....hired a T5 conversion and other than ease of parking it just wasnt for us.

By my meagre standards, my motorhome was/is eyewateringly expensive, but literally everyone that sees it wants one! Money is for spending whilst you're young enough to enjoy it imo. I do wish that I could have my bike inside with me....missus is already looking at an 'upgrade' to an A class though, so will possibly get a garage then 😂

Get a crafter/sprinter (they are the same van) or Ducato, I quite like this effort. This is SWB but obviously longer wheelbase will give more room. I'd put a suspended bed across the front seats for child.

You could get away with a low roof SWB as a couple - a little more very useful width and height than a lwb transporter. You can just about sleep across the van if under 6ft, leaving more room in the middle of the van.

Anyway a size up on the van gives more width and if you get SWB then no more length than a lwb transporter. Also they are cheaper than transporters!

Sorry to post and annoying and somewhat irrelevant reply, but i suppose it can give you some comfort in respect of depreciation.

We have just sold our VW California after 8 years of wonderful ownership. High spec, 30,000 miles and we sold it for £1200 less than we paid for it in 2013. I would consider that to be a good deal in our favour. So, if you by right depreciation should not be your issue.

Transporter owner for 10 years. With that budget I'd go as big as possible for interior size. Rent a few before you buy see what you like. Awnings are great on smaller vans. I'd say with electric being rolled out for vehicles there will be loads of overpriced unsellable vans in a few years time.
Get one and enjoy yourself.

what’s the point of having a van if the first thing you do is put up a tent?

This is the wisest thing on this thread

Might not suit you but awnings make a lot of sense in some situations and for some set ups.

If echo hiring. I’ve had California’s then tried larger van based Hymer etc and then coachbuilts. Depends where you think you’ll spend most of your time and what you use it for. Cali was great for stealth missions to complete the Munros, get in Fri late, sleep in van, brew and brekkie then out. 2 weeks of pouring rain on a family holiday with 3 in it was zero fun. We use ours all year and ski from it in Scotland so needed hot water and a toilet for kids. Ended up firstly with a Swift Escape and just chopped that in for a lovely Chausson. It’s a bit of a tricky beast on narrow roads but no great drama even on Scottish B roads with passing places etc. Has 4 bikes in the garage etc. Not a daily driver obvs as we don’t need one.I’d also beware - VWs used to hold their value as they were, in relative terms, cheap. My 2014 Cali was 44k new , equiv now would be almost 75k. The market is mad and there will be a glut at some point in the future so vans will not hold their value like they did. That Swift we part exc for >20% more than we paid for it !

I have a Renault Traffic 2010 that I am about to sell (£18k if anyone wants one -located in Brighton). Its 4 berth via a pop top roof and I cant believe I didn't get one sooner. Sadly I need the cash for the house extension, which is going way over budget. Its been great and I really don't want to sell it, but once the house works are out the way and I can get some more cash together I will buy another in an instant.

They are great to use for going mountain biking and surfing as well. We have done family trips to wales in it (4 of us and a dog).

What I have learnt is you always want more space, but bigger van tend to get pushed off the cooler campsites and you end up the Caravaners, who are a special breed. I saw one caravaner once hoovering there fake grass that they put out!

Ours is a 3rd vehicle too, and I would have a van as my day to day car but cant get it in our work car park which is a total pain as the parking is too tight and my wife isn't confident driving it as its so much bigger than her Fiesta.

We have just sold our VW California after 8 years of wonderful ownership. High spec, 30,000 miles and we sold it for £1200 less than we paid for it in 2013. I would consider that to be a good deal in our favour. So, if you by right depreciation should not be your issue.

That ship has sailed! Easy to buy right in 2013 less so in 2021(!)

These things were much less popular in 2013 and available....Now with no flying they are massively more popular and they can't build them fast enough!

Personally I'd wait until people start jetting off again, after a year or so the mfrs will have caught up too and there will be a load up for sale.

But can you wait for that and miss this/next season and risk it never happening?

Renting different types of vans for some weekends away is the best way to do your research.

That ship has sailed! Easy to buy right in 2013 less so in 2021(!)

It really hasn't. Over the years our T4 we sold for the same that we bought it for, the T5 we part-ex'd for slightly more than we bought it for including the extras we fitted to it and the motorhome we lost maybe £1k over 4 years having messed about with the layout somewhat. They are remarkably resilient to depreciation and their value bears no resemblance to the sum of their parts.

If you fancy renting and a holiday in Cornwall I can really recommend this little start up.

https://www.kernowadvantures.co.uk/

Family, biker and dog friendly, with an awesome VW t6 that is immaculate and even comes with a bike rack. We got to tour Cornwall, swim, bike and pub in the sunshine:)

I warn you, it is an addictive lifestyle, but would really recommend hiring first to try.

Why a VW/Tranny size? gonna be a daily driver? at that budget you’ll get a decent motorhome.

What he said. If you don’t need it as a daily consider getting something big enough to stand up in and fit a toilet & shower in.

I’d recommend hiring a couple of times, once in a T6 and once in a Ducato panel van conversion, or similar size.

For the last 20 years I’ve had a van of some description, a Bay window, T4s & T5s. We had some awesome trips and fortnight & longer holidays in them.
But this year we just finished converting a L3H2 Citroen Relay. Apart from the height restriction, everything about having the bigger is so much better. I can stand up, the bed is always just there, the bikes fit inside (along with either 2 people’s Kitesurf kit or SUPs) there’s a toilet in it and after a sweaty/muddy day on the bike or in the sea I can jump in a hot shower.

I’m laying in it now at Glencoe, feeling relaxed, comfortable and clean & fresh 😁

Have a think about how you want to use it before rushing in to anything.

Also be careful a StartLine might not have Aircon, which would be a deal breaker for me.

Right thanks for all the advice everyone!

We went to look at the two we'd shortlisted again this morning and I had a drive of them both - the 102ps TrendLine looks superb with a really funky paintjob and interior but it was a bit of a pig to drive - suspension was a bit stiff, seats weren't comfy, no power - didn't like it. The 140ps HighLine was a miles better drive, much more comfy seats (they looked exactly the same, but of course the original seats under the nice new upholstery were very different), aircon, etc - so I could see the benefits of the extra £'s....but.....

Based on all the advice here and a chat with Mrs Velocipede, we've decided not to buy - a few long weekend hires are in the offing (just looking at one now) and we'll see if we could actually live with one - and take it from there - we can afford one but making that leap and spending an amount of money on one thing that we've never done in our lives before (houses excepted) just feels like a massive leap and we might regret it, so....we'll give it a try and then look out for the price slump next year if we like it - if there's no slump, we can just buy one anyway!

Actually - any recommendations for a hire outfit? Somewhere in the Cheshire area?? Ta

Cheshire VW Campers is run by my best friends sister-in-law. No idea what spec of van they're hiring out, but can vouch 100% that they're totally legit!

I’m in Braemar at the moment and was chatting to a guy who had dropped 65k on a VW van which he now says is going up for sale ASAP as his wife and kids hate the experience, prior to this year they did hotel holidays and just don’t like the camping experience. I suspect there will be a bit of that ! And for context, they are at the Fife Arms every night 😂

Oof, now I don't feel so bad about the expensive, barely used tent in my garage.

FWIW, I bought my campervan for £2k mid pandemic and have spent about £1500 on it.
It's got a huge bed, loads of storage space, bike rack, solar panels, night heater, pumped hot water, a full kitchen and a wetroom with hot shower. Only 5 metres long too.

Pics in here:

View this post on Instagram

Doubt it's as nice to drive as a VW but probably nicer to actually camp in.

It also has a certain charm - get lots of folk coming to speak to you about it and take pics.

Just to say you can get something that works without spending extortionate amounts of money.
Depreciation on this is probably negative, I imagine it's worth a bit more than I spent.

Any comments on depreciation on these things?

Bought a brand new California 4 years ago. Looking at today’s second hand prices I reckon I could sell for £3-4K more than I paid for it. Obviously covid has boosted values but even before that struck I think I could of pretty much got my money back.

Edit:-Actually just noticed the local VW van center has one exactly the same year/spec as mine with 50% more miles £10K more than I paid for mine new. Are camper vans the new Bitcoin?

I think hiring a couple of different types is a good call. All camper vans are compromises. I like a permanent bed in them - but that means a bigger van which is harder to drive on small roads, in town and to park. A smaller van is better to drive - but folding down a bed at night become a pain - and also if one of you wants to go the bed the other has nowhere to sit.

On board loos are a must to me - but showers are useless - a trickle of luke warm water. Big fridge is great - but takes up a lot of space and so on

You just have to decide which compromises work for you

We hired a T30 conversion and found it was cramped with 2 adults, a girl and a dog. We had an awning but that was mostly to store our junk and blocked the view. I think the key to successful campervanning is to minimise everything and be very organised. I expect it'll take a few trips with your own van and gear to get it working the way you want.

Is it worth getting an oven / grill? We had one in ours and it took up a lot of cupboard space for something that may be used once in a blue moon. And cupbaords need packing with thought, we went round a few corners only to hear crockery moving about.

We found we used the campsite facilities for washing up as the sink was tiny and we had to empty the waste bucket fairly frequently (only 10 litre). I expect that even with a motorhome, you'd continue to use the site facilities where available as the toilet / shower / sink will all be fairly compact so would only be used when off site?

Yes but the chap who spent £65k will probably sell it for 70 Lols…!

we’ll give it a try and then look out for the price slump next year if we like it – if there’s no slump, we can just buy one anyway!

My prediction is it will be the year after! People start to travel abroad next year but either keep the van just in case of late restrictions or kidding themselves on they'll maybe use if for some weekends too, and then when the next years' bills come in - insurance, storage, servicing they start to question if its worth it... price will be seasonal too - so better chance of a bargain in Oct/Nov when the seller is not planning to use it for 6 months and might be facing a bill for storage than in April/May when they could get a couple of bank holiday weekends in themselves.

So end of Oct 2023 for a cheap(er) van! This will be helped if summer 2023 is dreadful weather.

I've been driving a caddy maxi for the past 12 months and done trips to Scotland a few times with 2 of us in the van. It's cramped and a royal pain in the arse but we're dirtbags and its better than a bivi or a tent. We even managed 8 days in it with 2 bikes somehow.

My suggestion would 100% be a crafter sized conversion if I had 40k to spend (not 5k that I had when I bought the caddy) and I wasn't daily driving it and had some space to store the thing.

A few home truths.

Camper values will be effected once covid is over and holidays are back on the table. Yes your previous deals have all been amazing. They havent really. You have got really strong trade in against your new vehicle which costs 30% more. Not such a brilliant deal and just keeps residuals high. But you havent done that post covid..... Stocks are low on new builds. Everyone wants one at the moment and they are riding the crest of supply and demand. But like houses, the value isnt important unless you sell and dont replace. A 30% increase in trade in is worthless if the replacement went up 30%.

Then we come to post covid values..i dont think it will be too bad but there is going to be a glut of second hand campers come onto the market. All those husbands who are buying them as fashion statements (STW is an absolute barometer for anything fashionable - cars, pizza ovens, bikes, campers) are going to come to 2022/2023 and have a wife absolutely desperate to drop £3-5k on a holiday mabe even 2 abroad. Anything, just get them on the plane. But hubby is paying £5-600 per month finance on his T6. He has a 10year finance plan and he cant afford to drop another 5-600 per month on holidays abroad. Lets stick to the van.....but then wife tells him some home truths. I bloody hate the van!!!! Its crampt. It rains everywhere we go. I cant be done with sleeping in glorified car parks. I cant even cook a decent meal in it. If i try to get dressed in it i end up in pain. I prefer a car. I want a hot shower. IT WAS YOU THAT WANTED A CAMPER.

I always wanted a camper. I got one and loved every second of it. EVERY SINGLE TRIP IN IT WAS A COMPROMISE. It ticked every box for me but my wife never came with me. I didnt owe a penny on it but i recently got rid because i dont want to be part of the camper scene. It is full of knob heads tbh who will take a dump in plain view of families, park anywhere, entitled to everything and take take take. I have friends who have gotten onto the bandwagon, but if i was asked my advice i would say keep your money and hire one from time to time just to quench the thirst.

A home truth.

You have the wrong wife.

@velocipede again - a bit of feedback on what you felt on the vans you tested. Seats do not vary by model (as in spec model trendline/highline etc), suspension the same but that does vary by max vehicle weight t28/30/32 etc. When empty t32 can feel quite firm but with a full conversion on stock suspension most are fine as there is enough weight in.
Based on what you say I'd guess maybe the first van had different springs or coilovers on, it's a common thing to do but ride suffers. Seats on both would be identical when new unless they've been changed for ones from other vehicles.
Power wise depends a little on what you are used to, 102 is better on fuel than 140/150 but doesn't have the 6th gear so a little more noise on the motorway. 102 can be remapped if you want more power, there's a big saving compared to 140/150 as they are so much rarer.
Testing is definitely a good plan, as I say fire me any questions if it helps.
Steve

Basically whatever you go for it will always be a compromise of some sort so you’ve just got to decide what’s important for you and recognise that, and you’ll be golden..

>> This.

My thoughts from owning a Ford Transit Custom (SWB) for the last year, converted to a camper for the last 3 months in case it helps... (there are two of us, riding a variety of bikes and doing a variety of other activities)... We wanted a single vehicle that would act as a day van for biking as well as an occasional camper.

Firstly, we have used it WAY more than I anticipated. Hands down best thing we ever did. If you live an outdoor lifestyle, it’s a game changer. Easy transport for day rides, easy to get going on early rides by kipping out the night before, easy to camp over the weekend with as you have somewhere to hide from the British weather.

Transit Custom vs. VW – an easy choice for us: the equivalent VW would have cost an extra 10k and the trim inside the Custom is really nice. It drives really well and the cab is very comfy. I’ve not heard any compelling argument that would make the additional cost for a VW worthwhile.

Wheelbase - We went for a SWB van as it is our only vehicle and we don’t have parking at home. I initially thought we would regret this (I wanted a bike “garage” at the back of the van to keep the bikes separate) but I have since totally reconsidered and would now buy a SWB again tomorrow. Reasons: it’s easy to drive, easy to park, not having a garage allows for rear windows and the all important view/light, the bikes fit straight in without taking the wheels off, there is enough room to pull the bed out with the bikes inside (with a blanket over them).

Engine – Ours is 130bhp Euro 6 – we get around 38mpg, down from 40mpg when it was an empty van. If you’re buying a van and investing money in having it converted, I would definitely recommend at least Euro 6 – clean air zones are only going one way.

Camper conversion – we opted for a partial conversion: pull out bench/bed (with storage underneath), leisure battery with lights and USB, swivel seats, pop top, shelf, heater, wind out awning. We left out the cooker, sink, fridge etc. on the basis that we wouldn’t be using them all the time. When we need those facilities, we take a decent cool box, a camping stove and a collapsible sink (read: plastic box) and we keep water containers under the bench. This means we can camp in comfort but have maximum room in the van for day to day use. Would def recommend swivel seats as this allows the cab space to become usable (you sit back into the cab) and makes a huge difference to how much room there is inside. Pop top with bed boards is also brilliant for storing crates etc. and still having room to walk round. Heater is also really good to make camping out a proper year round thing or just to dry out sodden 5 10s after a lot of puddles. Hard wearing, wipe clean floors are a must!

Wind out awning – really good addition for biking. If the weather is crap, you can sit underneath it, let the bikes drip off, get changed without getting muddy water all over your van etc. If the weather is good, it provides a bit of shade and space to dry swimming kit 😊

This set up works perfectly for our needs. It feels spacious as both a day van and a camper. If we’re doing a weekend, we generally carry bikes & kit, swimming stuff, hiking stuff, chairs, coolbox, stove, food etc. and there are always ways of finding the right storage set up so you still have room to move round. If it was bouncing down all weekend, we’d probably have to be more selective with kit. We’ve slept in it probably 15-20 nights, including a four day weekend and are just about to head off for a week so I’ll report back with any long term issues 😉

helen.and.hills the primary arguments for the vw over the transit are residuals are much higher on the vw's, they rust less and are more reliable. Engines in the euro 6 transits are very unreliable, I know a mechanic at a local Ford dealer who does nothing but replace the engines under warranty on transits at the moment.
Not saying they are for everyone and the lower transit price can be appealing but that's the reasons for the vw premium.

We were sooooo close to dropping £40k on one yesterday.....I'm so glad we didn't or I'd feel a bit crap reading one or two of the posts above - the "home truths" one especially from @TheLittlestHobo -

We'll take our time and have a think - I must admit that although we have the cash, I've never spent that much on anything other than a house so I'm not sure how I'd actually feel handing the cash over - I'll have to be "certain" before I do that so let's see how we go with a few hires 1st!!

Thanks @Tom-B for your recommendation 👍

I know a mechanic at a local Ford dealer who does nothing but replace the engines under warranty on transits at the moment

My Leyland DAF is more reliable than any of my pals' VWs lol

Nothing to contribute but just want to state that I'm loving this thread. There is loads of great opinions and experiences! 👌

We finally took the plunge and placed an order on a new VW from Hillside leisure last weekend but will have to wait 10 months for it. I have been dreaming of a camper for 30 years and have been glued to Autotrader and the many you tube campervan videos for what seems like an eternity. We are in our mid 50's and if we don't do it now, we never will. We camp several times every year and love camping life but have been put off in recent years because we always seem to pick windy weeks and have suffered too many broken poles and nights holding the tent down. I bet many people buying vans now have never been to a camp site in their lives and will 'not get it'. Originally, we were hoping to spend 20 - 25K but even pre covid this at best would buy you an ex-builder's van with a basic new conversion. Hillside leisure have interested me for some time because they have a great reputation, and their entry level offering is probably the cheapest brand-new VW out there and funnily enough has only increased by a couple of grand over the past few years. Yes, the van we have ordered is a Startline base vehicle and has the entry level engine, wheel trims and no coloured coded bumpers. These things do not bother us at all but what we have ordered has cost just over 40k for a brand-new vehicle with a 3-year warranty, with a quality heater and pop top, a RIB bed that we really wanted and a wind out awning. We are under no illusion that it is small, but we are prepared for this and as a previous poster has said it will be very cosy when cold and wet but amazing to sit under the awning on good days. We aim to keep it forever and not just for a few years and have already planned dozens of tours including our dream to take it to Italy with our tiny Yorkie terrier. The only negative is that I will have to sell my beloved 19-year-old Berlingo that I have owned since new. This has been the best car that I have ever owned and being Gold and not to everybody's taste it gets called the 'ugliest car in the car park'. If the VW is half as good as my 'Gold Goddess I will be a happy man.

Any ideas if statics and tourers have sky rocketed too?

Pacman1 amazing post! Hope you have many happy adventures in it which is after all what it’s all about!! 😀👍

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a Mazda bongo yet!

We got ours in 2017. It was a fresh import, very tidy and with very low miles and was quite cheap compared to an over priced VW. It's small but has a wide pull out bed, fridge, sink/twin hob, spinning front passenger seat and now solar panel. It also has an enormous side opening roof that makes it feel bigger - I can stand on the bed with plenty of space above me. It's light a airy with lots of windows - It's a car not a converted van. It's very nice to drive. We (2) use it for weekend trips, week long holidays in UK and have taken it round Europe for two weeks including a Czech wedding. With careful packing we can take walking gear, wetsuits/PFDs, iSUPs (2), walking gear, gas BBQ and proper sized blocks. The best bit is probably the bongo wave!

The only real downside is that it's a petrol and not great on fuel. But as we only really drive it when we're going on holiday or for a nice day out we're never in a hurry so don't really care 🙂

It was bought on a whim and we've loved every minute of it.

I'm sure there are some bongo hire companies and it's also likely that the cost of hire would be less than a VW.

“Any ideas if statics and tourers have sky rocketed too?”

We sold our motorhome & bought a tourer earlier this year. Got strong money for the m’home and it sold nice and quickly.
We found with tourers that it wasn’t as much of a case of prices being high, although they have risen a bit as there not being much stock around. It’s availability of vans that’s the issue.

After looking for a second hand van with little success we put a deposit down on a brand new one. Few weeks later a nearly new one (same as the new one we’d ordered) came up for sale literally round the corner from us. We were the third to call, viewed an hour later and agreed to buy. In the 24 hours between that and us picking it up, the seller reckoned he could have sold it dozens more times and for more money.

Called the dealer to cancel the new order and they weren’t remotely bothered as they said they had a waiting list for that model and would have it resold in a phone call!

Pacman1 amazing post! Hope you have many happy adventures in it which is after all what it’s all about!! 😀👍

This x 1000

Superb, you earned it fella, hope you have loads of awesome times!.

Bongos are very nice but they are really small and the older ones have significant coolant problems. If you've got a good one and are happy then that's great.

One theme on this thread is..."I would prefer x, y & z". It's a very subjective thing.  One thing which is true for everyone is that if you're over 6ft then 99% of transverse beds are too short which does limit the choice. Lengthways beds take up a lot of room so the van layout is a compromise on a smaller van.

The advice I gave my friend was to work out her priorities before buying. Unless the weather is horrific you spend most of your time sleeping in it, then driving. Much less little time is spent cooking, reading, quaffing ale/wine etc. We're all different but having stuff you don't need just increases costs and takes up room.

If you haven’t done campervanning before, then it might be worth hiring for a week to see how you get on with the size / space limitations. See a lot of VW sized campers so crammed to the gills with ‘stuff’ that they need to be emptied before you can get in the back.

If you’re contemplating taking bikes, think about how happy you’d be with leaving them outside the van overnight.

I think the above is very good advice.

From someone who’s owned a converted LWB Transit for 5 years, I’d definitely recommend hiring before you buy. From previous experience, I’d also recommend going for a van that you can the secure the bikes inside while you’re asleep or leaving it unattended.

It might work our cheaper for you to hire two or three times and wait until the popularity bubble bursts - which I’m certain it will when overseas flights/holidays restart. The prices at the moment are absolutely crazy, and I think people are taking the opportunity to get rid of se that would be normally be very difficult to sell. (Flogging the se with Leaking poptops, windows etc while the weathers dry). I reckon there’ll be some billy bargains around in a couple of years.

Oh, and if you do go for a Transit, be aware that it will rust like a 1970’s Lancia😁

My Leyland DAF is more reliable than any of my pals’ VWs lol

I heartily concur, they're very reliable and every home should have one.

PS mine's for sale 😀
Shameless stealth ad

What's the gpm like on that?

I heard that some camper conversion companies have over 12 month waiting lists. Which in my eyes just shows that even the conversion companies don't think the current boom is sustainable else they'd actively expand to meet demand.

Good luck with your hunt but I'd be looking at a motor home if it was me.

I heard that some camper conversion companies have over 12 month waiting lists. Which in my eyes just shows that even the conversion companies don’t think the current boom is sustainable else they’d actively expand to meet demand.

There's a huge demand for vans due to the explosion in home delivery during lockdown(s) so the converters are competing against couriers for the base vehicles and you simply can't source conversion parts (windows, appliances, tanks, etc.) quickly enough at the moment.

Makes me glad that I built our van conversion in 2018! (Ours is based on a MWB (L2) Citroen Relay pics)

I still don't really fancy a full-on (coach built) motorhome though:

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/motorhome-stuck-narrow-cornish-lane-5607336

As someone said above: everything about a camper / motorhome is a compromise. Everyone will have a their own set of priorities which will feed into the final choice.

PS mine’s for sale

That is so awesome. Did you build it?