You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Been idly musing since I saw a low budget van conversion ([url= http://www.instructables.com/id/White-Van-Camper-Conversion/ ]here[/url]). Has anyone tried using the bangernomics principle with a camper?
I'd like a camper, but there's no way I can justify buying a T5 or similar (not that that's necessarily what I'd go for), and older vans hold their value well.
I'd enjoy converting a van myself, but wouldn't want to devalue something that was worth a lot of money, and on the other hand, wouldn't want to put a lot of money and effort into something cheaper and mechanically/structurally questionable.
But if you could find a reasonably functional, if old and a bit knackered, dirt cheap van (as in the link), convert it in a really quick and dirty fashion (slap in a cheap wooden frame bed, etc.) and get a couple of years use out of it without too many trips to the garage, it would probably work out much cheaper than buying a flash new van.
Depends on your type/amount usage, of course, and some risk. It appeals more to me as I'm reasonably mechanically-minded - would be prepared to take on most mechanical tasks that might arise by myself, and confident inspecting before buying.
Go on, shoot me down 😉
I wouldn't hesitate if a standard size van can fit you.
I'm having a bit of a nightmare trying to save up for a van big enough to take 4 of us and 4 bikes, etc.
Edit: I would also say that their choice of a HiAce is good too. I had a 'jumbo' version in New Zealand and it was superb.
Bongo!
Google Amdro
Modular camper kits....
Bongo!
Small, thirsty, and almost as much scene tax as a VW?
I also had a Bongo and loved it, but it was very thirsty - about 27mpg.
The sleeping space is very good as a car, but not so practical as a camper in it's native format.
I would go for a higher bed compared to that link - so you can fit more stuff under.
Thousands of vans get kitted out like this in New Zealand.
We had a Bongo - it was fun, but because of its special nature we decided against using to go to Italy, south of France in etc. so we now have a T5 instead.
Having driven 1000 miles in 2 days in the T5, I can't imagine doing the same in a Bongo. Or driving in the Alps, or the Dolomites with any feeling of confidence of getting through them.
My sister bought a Fiat ready made camper for £800. Talk about bangernomics. It was not really fit for its intended purpose, breaking down all the time. Couldn't drive in the heat down to Portugal without overheating all the time.
You'd be better off with a conversion I suppose. Could convert on the cheap I reckon. Could do worse than buy a rotten old caravan and strip all the interior stuff from it (which would be fine). Considered this myself.
Not much to add really, but I enjoyed the link thenorthwind, certainly looks doable, especially if you made the bed etc easily removable so you could use the van for as an everyday vehicle.
taken from the thenorthwinds link.
[img] 
[/img]
Seen those Amdro things before, or at least something very similar. I'd considered making something similar to that before... and having seen the price of them, still would 😯
I feel fuel economy is less important with bangernomics, but a Bongo doesn't really fit with what I'm suggesting anyway; any not completely trashed is going to be way over-budget. They key idea would be getting the most mechanically-reliable, structurally-sound vehicle for the money. Anything with camper features is going to take money away from that.
I agree that a Hi-ace is a good choice. I wouldn't buy a Fiat for this. Or anything else 😉
We had a Bongo - it was fun, but because of its special nature we decided against using to go to Italy, south of France in etc. so we now have a T5 instead.
Having driven 1000 miles in 2 days in the T5, I can't imagine doing the same in a Bongo. Or driving in the Alps, or the Dolomites with any feeling of confidence of getting through them.
Erm - we drove to Croatia and back in ours over three weeks... 4000 miles all up including mountain passes in France, Austria and Slovenia. Yes they are thirsty, but I can honestly say I prefer the Bongo to my BiL's older ('03 plate) T5 which feels comparatively underpowered.
What's the 'special nature'?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pimpmasterjazz/albums/72157631537644890
Do it. I converted our old t4 that I bought in 2004 myself when we had kids. The single most expensive item was the crash tested R&R bed, which I wouldn't of needed if I wasn't carting humans around in the back.
I really like campers, but I can't see how a newer T5 does anything worth £35K more than mine for the amount I realistically use it...
We had a 2.5V6 petrol, at best we got 26mpg, at worst 18...
The main issues for us were:
Fuel economy.
Its a vehicle that no one on mainline Europe knows anything about.
The "interesting" coolant system - we were strongly advised to have an aftermarket water temp alarm fitted to reduce the likelihood of the engine killing itself.
In the first year of having it we had new hydraulic lifters and rear diff fitted under the warranty of the place we'd bought it from.
It was just too small.
Thinking along similar lines, but my current banger van has no windows and I also want some rear seats. Not sure it's worth spending on those plus all the effort of conversion when the van itself is a bit tired, probably better value to start with a better base vehicle and expect the resulting camper to do a decade or more.
Ours is a simple diy conversion of a £1400 Mitsubishi delica. We need a 4x4 for other hobbies and its a great bike carrier. The camper bit can be taken in and out in 20 mins. Done a highlands tour, a couple of alps trips and loads of weekends away. Works for us.
We had a 2.5V6 petrol, at best we got 26mpg, at worst 18...
The main issues for us were:
Fuel economy.
Its a vehicle that no one on mainline Europe knows anything about.
The "interesting" coolant system - we were strongly advised to have an aftermarket water temp alarm fitted to reduce the likelihood of the engine killing itself.
In the first year of having it we had new hydraulic lifters and rear diff fitted under the warranty of the place we'd bought it from.
It was just too small.
Our Bongo certainly doesn't feel much smaller than a SWB T5. We bought ours (admittedly low mileage) because I refused to pay through the nose purely to own a VW. As said I've driven a T5 (and a T4) and also owned a few VAG cars. I definitely don't feel they warrant any reputation for being more reliable (certainly the older ones) and certainly prefer driving the Bongo to the older T5 and T4 I've had a go in.
Fair point about the euro coverage though - we have a 2WD diesel and it's still pretty thirsty. However the lump is basically a Ford Ranger 2.5D and there's a smattering of Mondeo pieces in there, but admittedly explaining that to a backcountry Slovenian garage could be a bit of a problem.
After all that, if someone gave me a new T5 Sportline I wouldn't say no... 😉
This is good for ideas:
[url= https://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Dream-Camper-pounds/dp/1845845242 ]https://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Dream-Camper-pounds/dp/1845845242[/url]
I think you could get something in a far nicer base vehicle for not a massive amount more, see [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/rip-vangelina-long-live-farah ]sazter's thread[/url]
Or just buy a bongo or t4
We spent a month in a Toyota Previa/Estima camper in Australia and it worked fine, there are a few companies that have fleets of them and they're everywhere on the tourist routes.
Take out the back seats, have a bench down each side with a plywood sheet that slides over the middle and the back cushions fit down the middle to form the bed. Bases of the benches open for storage. Down at the tail end, a Waeco 12v fridge/coolbox thing, a pod with a little cooker and one with a little sink.
It's the sort of thing I'd do for a budget/part-time camper. Going car-based means fewer issues with insurance, speed limits, tolls, etc and they tend to be quieter on the motorway too.
The Amdro Bootjump type system looks great too, and I like how it's all "in the boot" when not set up so as long as the main unit is secured down (it has little securing clamps) there's not anything to worry about flying loose in a crash. Have seen some more basic DIY versions but I don't think what they're asking is unreasonable given you get a decent cooker, Fiamma table hardware, blackout screens, etc. You could spend a good proportion of what they're asking just on materials.
Like the idea of this. Watching with interest. . .
Keep an eye on GUmtree for local campers for sale. 3/4-finished projects can go for little money, especially if it's not based on a cool base model. (DAF? Iveco?)
Our first camper was a home conversion which cost around £6k, but we sold it 3 years later for not much less, so although not a banger, it worked out cheap to run.
Bookmarked
[img] 
[/img]
This Iveco [url= https://www.gumtree.com/p/campervans-motorhomes/iveco-campervan/1178544580 ]HERE [/url]is the sort of thing I would look for. Not light on fuel, but a good size & robust.
Only 10 years old, 140k, not a bad buy.
If you just need to sleep in it with bikes, I've built wheelarch boxes to the same height as my rear bench seat folded flat. I then just slide in two sheets of MDF and that's my bed. It leaves room for bikes underneath and means I can use it as a van the rest of the time.
If you want an iveco see me I sell um
I have an amdro in a berlingo. Not a full on camper by any means but with a decathlon pop up awning 2 of us toured round belgium for a couple of weeks with no issues. I needed to get a towbar bike rack as there's not much room inside for the bikes once the amdro is in, but I would really recommend it.
I like that Iveco that moses spotted, but there's no way I'd have a chemical bog in there... they ****ing stink worse than shit and I've never met a traveller that would dream o shitting in their van
[i]If you want an iveco see me I sell um[/i]
And see my forum, I help people fix them! www.ivecoforums.com
The Ivecos are very good value, just watch the size as they are massive...a MWB is like a LWB Transit. I am on my second one.
Watch out for the conversion prices, write a list of what you want and start pricing up, its easy to blow £600 on a couple of windows, and the other bits add up fast.
Fuel economy, its not as big an issue as it is always made out to be. 4,000 miles over a year paying £1.10 a litre...20mpg only costs £200 more than 25mpg. So I don't stress over seeing my mpg drop as low as 18mpg sometimes, without a trailer it'll do high 20's.
Chemical toilets...they don't stink! Mild aroma when you empty it but its really not that bad...our last conversion didn't even have a rooflight to ventilate the toilet and there was just a slight smell of the fragranced flush solution.
Keep an eye on GUmtree for local campers for sale. 3/4-finished projects can go for little money, especially if it's not based on a cool base model. (DAF? Iveco?)
This.
Autotrader too - seen a few Ford/Iveco based projects on there in the past.
From the pics that iveco daily race can look good for the money , most mx race trucks I viewed had a chemical bog.
But very few seemed to have many windows
I made a bed module for a 4x4 that can be removed if we need the 7 seats. Designed and built the prototype myself and am now looking for a woodworker to make something more robust.
It's easy enough to do, or go the Amdro, Ququq, Yatoo route.
I don't know much about them but a surfer dude at work has a Hyundai iload (based on the i800 people carrier). The second hand prices look attractive.
It looks pretty cool and he loves it, having had a Vivaro, VW's and a short disastrous stint with an American V8 import.
Ours is a simple diy conversion of a £1400 Mitsubishi delica. We need a 4x4 for other hobbies and its a great bike carrier. The camper bit can be taken in and out in 20 mins. Done a highlands tour, a couple of alps trips and loads of weekends away. Works for us.
That sounds great!
How much of a banger are you looking at? For 2k you can get a traffik panelvan and add 1-2k conversion doing it yerself. Most of that will be a decent bed/seat with belts.
Most weekend campers I meet don't have cookers sinks etc. You just don't need that in the van. A fridge is the most useful thing.
You only need a pop top if you spend longer than a couple of days on the van with kids. We have a massive awning we use.
I've now had 4 different vans. 1 was converted but after a year I changed it all to something more suitable.
Go for it! I really enjoy the planning and making the interiors.
we have a T5 with a really basic setup that would work in most vans and means its still usable for bikes/kayaks/shifting stuff etc.
its a kombi, back seat folds flat forward, we bought one of these frames that sits in behind the seat and slide out to make a double bed. loads of storage underneath.
our 4yr old sleeps in a hammock that fits across the front seat.
It's easy. Spent 2.5k on a transit med high long wheel Base and put a decent bed in bikes went under and everything else went in. Storage for 6 bikes, gas bbq, stove and everything else comfy to sleep in, insulated etc. Conversion costs were low and I used it loads. The extra space meant you could stand up in it and all that. No need for the fancy crap either as it was 100% functional.
I bought a Hiace for £1600, insulated it with the foil bubblewrap stuff and put ply over the top. Added a side window and a roof vent for a couple of hundred quid. Bought an Ikea folding sofa bed for £12 on eBay (beddinge was the model I think) made a wooden frame to raise it up a bit so bikes fit underneath. Driven to Italy in it last summer, certainly you can build something reasonable for less than £2k! Would consider an MPV conversion in future, Ford Galaxy, Toyota Estima etc.
Van with some stuff thrown in the back ~ not quite camper van though no matter how cheap.
Fine when away with adults or grown up kids using it as only somewhere to sleep
Not sure I'd like to spend time away with kids sleeping in the back of a cargo van with an OSB shelf for a bed.
Work out end use and adapt from there I think although at low price point you probably won't be able to be fussy.
I've had all three options via owning and hiring and I'm set the optimum way for my needs is to buy nearly new and self convert. Youll only devalue the van if you do it badly/on the cheap.
A coach built camper isn't really bike friendly unless it's silly big
A van is still a van until you have things like windows and vents added to make it a nice place to be and not just a sleeping cupboard.
Im reluctant to invest time and money into a low end van just 1mot away from the scrap heap.- at that end of the market a bed shelf and some boxes makes sense.
It seems like a lot of people have tried various points between full-on bangernomics and just buying a camper. I'm talking about right down the extreme low budget end. Maybe £1500 max on the base vehicle and £500 max on the conversion, but of course it's possible to do it much cheaper still - see link in my OP.
What duner is suggesting is bang on. It's not going to be luxurious; as t_r says, it might not even be called a camper.
The point earlier about using a car-derived van or people carrier as a base to avoid insurance issues is sensible. Not going to be messing around with reclassification on something that's only going to last a couple of years.
I've got a 08 Scudo LWB that has removable rear seats, when I want to use it for camping I whip em out and bolt in an [url= http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S69840090/ ]IKEA sofa bed[/url] (obviously not for passenger use) and away I go. It's basically a metal tent and as i'm used to camping it suits us fine. We've made an awning/shell tent that fits over the barn doors so I get and extra 2 foot or so for bike storage, everything else goes under the bed when it's out.
Depending on how we feel I either take a 2 ring coleman dual fuel burner or a single ring gas burner ( and eat out for a bit of comfort)
It's not glamorous or luxurious (unless your comparing it to a tent) but it's good for a couple of days away.
the crash tested R&R bed
:/
I agree with trail_rat, if you are going to spend a lot of time and effort it may as well be something decent.
Camping bangernomics for me (before kids) would have been a massive estate car, a tent and an airbed. Actually that's what it is with kids! Just no option to sleep in car.
It doesn't have to be a lot of time and effort though.
I must have seen 300 vans like this around NZ - usually various ages of Hiace with just a bit of lumbar in the back to make a high bed - then a few containers from The Warehouse.
The benefit of NZ is that pretty much all vans have windows which makes for a nicer interior.
This kind of thing:
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
If you get one with a lift up tailgate, then you've got somewhere to stand in the dry. Again the Jumbo Hiace was good for this because the boot hinged from a higher point.
What about having a set of seats for children? All the conversions I've seen thus far are for 2 adults.
Guess asides thing to do would be fold seats Dow and put frame over the top of them?
You can get pull tested rock and roll beds with integrated belts for conversions now. I have a reimo as alternatives wernt really available at the time.
Much harder at the banganomics scale of things.holmes81 - MemberWhat about having a set of seats for children? All the conversions I've seen thus far are for 2 adults.
Guess asides thing to do would be fold seats Dow and put frame over the top of them?
4 belted seats that convert into 4 beds requires a pop-top or an xlwb van. I've been searching for Ducato/Relay/Boxer for under £4k for a few months now and haven't found anything I'd trust.
This is my basic camper set up, VW T4 factory kombi, 3 seats up front and 3 quick release in the rear. Van isn't bangeronomics, (cost me 4k last year) I plan to keep it a while but the bed platforms were cheap and easy to build and are removable.
Single bed platform with room for bike down the side
[img] 
[/img]
Double bed platform
[img] 
[/img]
No biggie, if I ever wen down his route, looks like it's a bike bloke van 😆
Pro 'tog Duncan Philpott has got a pretty great bangernomics van set-up:
If memory serves it's a Berlingo or similar and the front seat lies flat to extend into a bed, using the flat section behind. He did do a photo montage of it, but can't find it now.