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tbh it would be a beautiful thing if Corbyn did get in next GE. I'd probably die laughing! 😆binners - Member
The tories (the party in government) are tearing themselves apart
They're really not though, are they? Asking which Tory leader you get out of that shower of *s is all fairly academic. They're all on the same mission. Its not like any one of them is likely to suddenly discover some previously dormant social conscience, and humanity, is it? Some heartfelt empathy with the working classes? A burning desire for social justice?Now they're unconstrained by the whole Europe thing, and don't have an opposition worthy of the name, they'll all unite in their goal of bending us all over, and going in dry.
What would be funny, if it wasn't so tragic, is listening to all the prospective PM's banging on about equality and opportunity, and governing for the many not the few, when we all know full well, that once they pull the plug on the EU, they'll be having a bonfire of workers rights, and gleefully
*ing the lot of us over as they turn the UK into a corporatist neoliberal theme park
and the ship of fools get distracted by the **** cap Corbyn is wearing
well it's not quite a distraction is it - he dresses sympathetically according to his political views, to align himself with others that have looked like that.
It's a bit like Hipsters all dressing the same, they are trying to align with something.
Or that 'political' comedy show from the 70s whose names escapes me.
The Tory party is absolutely not going to "lurch out to the right" the middle ground is there for the taking and they won't be abandoning it. With living wages and rising persoanl allowance they will be shoring up the middle ground. They will do this whoever of May/Leadso, wins
I'll put myself on record
May and Leadsom are both a complete disaster - both are a lurch to the comfortable ("its time for mummy" as one MP said) rather than a bold step into the future.
Conservative party need to dominate the centre ground with the next generation and reinvent themselves as post-brexit aspiration ("things can only get better")- not hark back to Old times
I have said clearly that I think that Rees-Mogg should be next PM (or Ruth Davidson were she a westminster MP at the moment)
I have said clearly that I think that Rees-Mogg should be next PM
+1
ninfan - Member
I'll put myself on record
I have said clearly that I think that [b]Rees-Mogg [/b]should be next PM (or Ruth Davidson were she a westminster MP at the moment)
WTF... the same guy who said "[i]Michael Gove would be a prime minister as great as Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher[/i]" and "[i]The British nanny is one of our nation’s finest traditions, iconic like a London taxi or a red bus, steeped in history, and, akin to the ravens at the Tower of London, important to the country’s wellbeing[/i]"
Are you PG Wodehouse?
I have said clearly that I think that Rees-Mogg should be next PM
I agree.
...and I don't know why. He's like Kaa out of the Jungle Book.
I disagree with most of his ideology, but feel I could talk to him for hours.
Jammers - your naive confidence in some hitherto undiscovered humanity in the people we're talking about here is touching, but I think I'm going to stick with my original assumption that we're about to be brutally ****ed by a triumphalist Tory party, while labour sits there with its thumb up its collective arse, having petty little squabbles with itself
TurnerGuy - MemberI think that is pretty fair - the language he uses - comrades
All Labour leaders prior to New Labour used the term "comrades", including John Smith and Neil Kinnock.
Corbyn has never forgotten that he is a Labour politician so has always continued to use the term.
Tony Blair preferred that people weren't reminded that he was supposed to be a Labour politician so used a term much preferred by Tories - "friends and colleagues".
I have to say that of all the criticism I felt that could be leveled at Tony Blair it never occurred to me for one moment to criticise him for addressing Conference as "friends and colleagues", there was plenty of serious tangible criticism to get on with.
I feel hugely comforted if Corbyn's critics are now reduced to criticising him for how he addresses fellow party members, they must truly be very desperate for ammunition.
Good to see Leadsom is keeping it clean. She feels she would be a better PM than May because she has children and May and hubbie weren't able to have any...Stay Classy! As somebody who wants Scottish independence, my first choice was obviously Boris;just to help things along,but she is showing potential.
To be fair, she is disgusted that the times printed what she said, after saying it she old them not to use what she had just said as this leadership battle shouldn't be about her being mother and having children with a stake in the future, and them one day having children with also a stake in the further future, while May is a childless hag. But don't print that even though she keeps repeating it. 🙄
but she is showing potential.
It would normally be amusing to see a proper rightwing zealot so obviously lacking in intelligence leading the party.
However with a divided nation desperately in need of fixing and the most important trade n. egotiations in our nation's history,
Theresa is the only sane option, assuming she can manage to get the dates right for A50, we don't want another Abu Qatada style farce.....
The Times has released the audio tape so people can make their own judgement...
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Jammers - your naive confidence in some hitherto undiscovered humanity in the people we're talking about here is touching, but I think I'm going to stick with my original assumption that we're about to be brutally ****ed by a triumphalist Tory party, while labour sits there with its thumb up its collective arse, having petty little squabbles with itself
If when you say 'naive' you mean 'completely delusional', then yes, it's spot on. We're going to see one of the most right wing Tory governments in history, completely unleashed to do their best (by which I mean worst if you're not a millionaire). Once they realise that the tax take (which will have fallen considerably by year end) doesn't stretch to the current level of benefits / tax credits they'll embark on a slash and burn of benefits and mass privatisation of schools and hospitals.
We'll probably also accept TTIP without any concessions (as they'll be desperate to sign new trade deals), giving US corporations free reign to own all our public services.
Once they realise that the tax take (which will have fallen considerably by year end) doesn't stretch to the current level of benefits / tax credits they'll embark on a slash and burn of benefits and mass privatisation of schools and hospitals
If only the Labour Party was led by someone who was opposed to all that, eh ?
Perhaps they can chose a new leader out of this lot :
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/these-are-the-184-labour-mps-who-didn-t-vote-against-the-tories-welfare-bill-10404831.html ]Welfare bill: These are the 184 Labour MPs who didn’t vote against the Tories' cuts[/url]
So, now that Leadsom's gone - who'll come back in to take the 2nd candidate role?
Gurve?
Bozza?
Crabb?
Fox??
No one Theresa May is our next PM.
Well I didn't see that coming, though clearly I should have.
Quick! Everyone encrypt your data! May is coming!
...and she REALLY wants to see what grumble you've been looking at.
So what we have now is a situation whereby the Leave campaign won the referendum but were singularly unable to field a candidate for PM within the Tory party and as a result we will have a PM who was on the Remain side (albeit only just) in charge of negotiating our exit from the EU that she didn't really want.
Does anyone else think they are living in some kind of farce?
Does anyone else think they are living in some kind of farce?
Armando Iannucci has ruled out a revival of TV satire The Thick of It because today’s “alien and awful” world of politics would be hard to match.The award-winning writer and creator of the popular BBC series, which made a star of Doctor Who’s Peter Capaldi, talked about the irony in a column for the New Statesman.
Iannucci said people write to him and suggest the return of The Thick of It every time something “stupid” occurs involving politics and politicians.
[b]“No. Absolutely not,” he wrote. “I now find the political landscape so alien and awful that it’s hard to match the waves of cynicism it transmits on its own.” He added: “Fiction is winning out because fact is no longer making sense.”[/b]
- Armando Iannucci.
Not to mention after all the unelected beaurocrat stuff, we have about as unelected as possible a PM.
Someone who sat on the fence like May did, does not fill me with confidence that she can deliver.
Does anyone else think they are living in some kind of farce?
My palm seems permanently stuck to my face at the moment.
Not to mention after all the unelected beaurocrat stuff, we have about as unelected as possible a PM
Well it's the third time it's happened in my lifetime and as been pointed out many many times it's perfectly correct and consistent with our electoral system.
Someone who had the sense to stay away from both the Leave and Remain campaign's more fantastical claims is smarter than all the people who have been tripped up by their own lies.
Not to mention after all the unelected beaurocrat stuff, we have about as unelected as possible a PM.
As elected as Gordon Brown, John Major, James Callaghan, Winston Churchill, David Lloyd George, Neville Chamberlain, Alex Douglas-Home and I could go on. This is not a new principle that the elected government changes leader during the term of government.
as been pointed out many many times it's perfectly correct and consistent with our electoral system.
Unless, of course, it is done by [i][b]Them[/b][/i], you know, the bad guys, the ones you don't agree with.
Let those that manned the barricades against the coronation of Gordon Brown cast the first stone.
No one Theresa May is our next PM.
She's the loser in a stepping-backwards competition
gonefishin - MemberNot to mention after all the unelected beaurocrat stuff, we have about as unelected as possible a PM
Well it's the third time it's happened in my lifetime and as been pointed out many many times it's perfectly correct and consistent with our electoral system.
Yes I completely agree. However, from a farce point of view it's an added facet of humour given one of the rallying cries of leave was 'get control back from the unelected officials' and we now have a PM voted for by 199 people.
So what we have now is a situation whereby the Leave campaign won the referendum but were singularly unable to field a candidate for PM within the Tory party and as a result we will have a PM who was on the Remain side (albeit only just) in charge of negotiating our exit from the EU that she didn't really want.
It certainly seems odd, but its probably better that we do have a 'Remainer' and a woman to boot, to negotiate our exit. She won't engender the 'hate' from EU that someone like Boris or Gove or even Leadsome would have....hopefully! The leave camp have got what they want and probably don't really want to do the dirty work, as Boris showed.
However, from a farce point of view it's an added facet of humour given one of the rallying cries of leave was 'get control back from the unelected officials' and we now have a PM voted for by 199 people.
That's a fair point and one that I missed. In my defence though it's difficult to keep up with [I]all[/I] the farcical points of this on going debacle.
Hurray for Taking Back Control
I feel so empowered!!!
I think you have to give credit to Theresa for her leadership campaign strategy of sitting back and doing absolutely nothing while her opponents individually commit acts of Seppuku
we have about as unelected as possible a PM.
that's because you vote for the party not the [s]president[/s] PM, in our seemingly inexorable drift towards US style presidential politics it's a point many seem to miss.
Maybe if the EU had a president elected by all in the EU then it would be perceived to be more democratic (but our outgoing PM didn't like that idea)
Given Mays track record for implementing things, I'm quite positive, brexit is being implemented by someone with a track record for failure to complete. Hooray.
Hurray for Taking Back Control
Taking Back Control: TBC
Given Mays track record for implementing things, I'm quite positive, brexit is being implemented by someone with a track record for failure to complete. Hooray.
i like your thinking! fingers/toes etc crossed.
Will May do another Abu Quatada?
.......... and miss the deadline for A50 renegotiation so we'll get dumped out with no deals in place whatsoever?
the tory press are going to frottage themselves into a gibbering mess with all the Thatcher comparisons
at least as leadsome kindly pointed out May doesnt have kids tho!
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You simply couldn't have made up the last few weeks.
She's probably the least worst candidate though.
flanagaj - Member
Someone who sat on the fence like May did, does not fill me with confidence that she can deliver.
Her position (and I am not a fan historically) was probably the best of the lot. She recognised the flaws in the EU but also recognised that despite them it was in the UK's best interests to remain on the basis of the unique conditions that the UK enjoyed.
Totally sensible position, in fact, the only sensible position.
No need to get embroiled in the lies and BS, just make you point and sit back and wait. She is the only senior politician who comes out of the past few weeks with any credit.
She recognised the flaws in the EU but also recognised that despite them it was in the UK's best interests to remain on the basis of the unique conditions that the UK enjoyed.
Just a shame the Brexiters didn't recognise the second point.
I wonder what she promised Andrea "stupid as mud" Leadsom to stand aside...
nickc - Member
I wonder what she promised Andrea "stupid as mud" Leadsom to stand aside...
magic beans i suspect
Or a bible Michael Gove left behind.
Loving this democracy! 😕
DaRC_L - Memberthat's because you vote for the party not the president PM
Holy moly, someone that understands how general elections work.
The amount of stupidity being spewed out about "I didn't vote in Theresa, what a farce". No you're right you didn't and nor did you vote in Cameron, you voted for your local MP.
seosamh77 - MemberLoving this democracy!
🙄
True - but you voted for a local MP affiliated to an organisation which is supposed to have a democratically elected leader.Holy moly, someone that understands how general elections work.The amount of stupidity being spewed out about "I didn't vote in Theresa, what a farce". No you're right you didn't and nor did you vote in Cameron, you voted for your local MP.
Just confirmed May will be Prime Minister on Wednesday
but you voted for a local MP affiliated to an organisation which is supposed to have a democratically elected leader.
Except when, under its rules, one is elected as leader unopposed.
Anyhow, a vote involving mainly conservative blue-rinses isn't exactly the paragon of democracy. I for one am relieved that the party hasn't been given the chance to lurch even further to the right by electing Leadsom.
It's OK though, she can still put it on her CV.
It doesn't matter anyway - it's just something that opposition will try and use against her - fact is that May would have won with a huge amount of support from the Conservative MPs.
The leadership of the tories is irrelevant. The fact their manifesto doesn't state, in any way what-so-ever, the form that Brexit should take, is what makes all this anti-democratic.
It would still be anti-democratic even if the tories had a leadership contest. This just amplifies it.
i thought this was meant to be a comedy, why is everyone taking it so seriously? 🙄 😆
Just confirmed May will be Prime Minister on Wednesday
Whose turn is it on Thursday?
[url= http://order-order.com/2016/07/11/pm-hums-happy-tune-following-departure-announcement/ ]Cameron is humming a happy tune.[/url]
Cameron is humming a happy tune.
He must be so freakin relieved,
Theresa May now has to swallow the entire shit sandwich that is post Brexit UK
He must be so freakin relieved,
You are Lewis Hamilton and I claim my £5.
You are Lewis Hamilton and I claim my £5.
who do you think you are, the Taxman?,
Im off back home to Monacao
Theresa May now has to swallow the entire shit sandwich that is post Brexit UK
Are we up to Brexitageddon-ageddon-ageddon yet?
It is highly amusing to see all these demands for new referendums or a general election from those on the losing side of a democratic process.
The Tories have had a democratic leadership contest and one of the final two has decided to withdraw not least on the basis she knows she won't win the head to head vote. Pragmatic.
What's the plan, jamba?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36767880?SThisFB#video-36767880 ]Time to chillax....[/url]
What's the plan, jamba?
The plan, surely, is to leave the EU.
non?
After all, the 2015 conservative manifesto stated that they would hold the referendum and respect the outcome.
you may also have forgotten that the Law says we only hold a general election once every five years unless there is a vote of no-confidence.
and lets face it, its not the Tories who are tied up in the problems caused by votes of no confidence at the moment, is it 😆
Could you point me to the detail?
you may also have forgotten that the Law says
That the referendum wasn't legally binding?
Headshot to nick!
Could you point me to the detail?
detail of what?
That the referendum wasn't legally binding?
Nor is an election manifesto pledge, but look how upset Joseph seems to get about how important they are
(funnily enough a piece of caselaw involving the Labour Parties broken promise of a referendum on the EU constitution)
It is highly amusing to see all these demands for new referendums or a general election from those on the losing side of a democratic process.
I'm not keen on a second referendum on the same question. That undermines democracy.
But then I'm also not very keen on politicians basing a campaign around a bunch of headline promises - only for them to immediately withdraw those promises and resign once the vote has been won.
That [i]also[/i] undermines democracy. Probably more so than a second referendum.
Ah well...
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"Something... something... something.. dark side... something... something... something... complete!"
dunno, if you've noticed, but I'm not arguing against their pledge, I'm arguing against the complete an utter non existence of any substance.ninfan - Member
Could you point me to the detail?
detail of what?That the referendum wasn't legally binding?
Nor is an election manifesto pledge, but look how upset Joseph seems to get about how important they are
tory election manifesto
We will honour the result of the referendum, whatever the outcome.
the detail on that bit.
For me, that needs to be fleshed out, just a wee bit more. Personally, I think the people should have a say, and all the parties can put forward their brexit vision.
Do you see no contradiction in a campaign that argued to take back democracy acting without consulting the people on what it means?
Never mind her royal guards, I want to know what the rest of the ticker tape says.
The leadership of the tories is irrelevant. The fact their manifesto doesn't state, in any way what-so-ever, the form that Brexit should take, is what makes all this anti-democratic.
Why would that be in a manifesto? The referendum was the pledge - and that was honoured. There are various options that now need to be considered and negotiated. By definition, they cant be details on the form - that's one of the problems ie, it is going to take considerable time for all of this to be negotiated. FA to do with the manifesto though or with democratic/non-democratic debate.
I'm arguing against the complete an utter non existence of any substance.
Maybe you should have asked for it before they won the election, still, they did win the 2015 election, so they now have a free hand to do it however they want
For me, that needs to be fleshed out, just a wee bit more.
as you say, for you - but I'm guessing you didn't vote for them in 2015 anyway, and those who did seem to have been willing to accept the uncertainty. Thats democracy, eh?
fact is that May would have won with a huge amount of support from the Conservative MPs.
Not necessarily, the final vote was down to the membership, who are more Eurosceptic than the PP, so Leadson could have easily won.
and one of the final two has decided to withdraw not least on the basis she knows she won't win the head to head vote.
Another made up #jambafact. By all accounts she couldn't take the pressure from the right wing press who were pro May; so she cracked.
well no, it's not.ninfan - Member
Thats democracy, eh?
Good news - we dont have a BSer as PM. Some sanity is returning. and if rumours are correct no cabinet place for Gove. Please, now kill Bojo with kindness and give him health. That will further kill his aspirations.
teamhurtmore - Member
The leadership of the tories is irrelevant. The fact their manifesto doesn't state, in any way what-so-ever, the form that Brexit should take, is what makes all this anti-democratic.
Why would that be in a manifesto? The referendum was the pledge - and that was honoured. There are various options that now need to be considered and negotiated. By definition, they cant be details on the form - that's one of the problems ie, it is going to take considerable time for all of this to be negotiated. FA to do with the manifesto though or with democratic/non-democratic debate.
It's got everything to do with it, they have no mandate to do as they please going forward.