[Closed] CALM - Are there really bigger issues than...

THat is a shocking statistic and a thread worth a bump

Apparently we are 105th in the world...101st for men and 119th for women.

aye, That's one of the statistics we hear most. I've just finished a tour of "The Last Yankee". The post show discussions with audience/agencies/with and without mental health issues are enlightening, reassuring, and sometimes harrowing, all at the same time for everyone. Had a few audience seek help for themselves or others as a result.

http://www.samh.org.uk/

Worth another bump

Plenty of us on here have had issues over the years, myself included. Talking helps. Realising its not just you helps. Ask for help and you will find no end of people in the same spot more than willing to do what they can.

Real men still need help. When you realise something is wrong, start asking and talking - friends, family, work, GPs, Samaritans. They are all there, use them. Please.

At my local football club last week I heard that so and so's son had "just topped himself".
Campaigns like CALM are doing their best but in the long run the structural factors behind the stubbornly high male divorce rate need to be addressed.
These include: the hollowing out of manufacturing jobs; the feminisation of education, with "naughty" boys being considered dysfunctional and put on medication; negative portrayals of men as buffoons across the media; the list goes on really.
But talking of course is the best place to start from.

It is indeed a shocking statistic and should be shared with women so they can help too- spotting warning signs etc.
And we need to understand the causes.
M
Badnewz- are those 'causes' you list from your own opinion or from a study? I ask because the list seems a bit anti-women to me, which is not necessarily very helpful. Women also commit suicide, even if it's less frequently, and suffer from mental health issues. I suffer from severe depression and I know what it's like.
Sure there will be reasons specific to men, but women also get ridiculed in the media, they're under pressure to work as well as raise a family, we're also experiencing job losses - lots of science jobs disappearing from the UK.

What I'm saying is that we should all be helping each other. If you don't involve half the world in tackling the causes then you're less likely to succeed.

VickyPea
The one point I made that could be considered anti-women is "the feminisation of education". There have been some articles on how this affects the prospects of boys but it's too taboo to investigate in detail, here is one [url= http://www.theage.com.au/comment/teaching-has-become-feminised-and-boys-lose-out-20131121-2xxu4.html ]article[/url]

But the other points I was making were more to do with economic changes particularly the hollowing out of manufacturing jobs.

There is clearly a problem when one of our MPs, Jess Phillips, ends up laughing at the ostensible absurdity that male suicide might be worthy of parliamentary investigation.

Badnewz- are those 'causes' you list from your own opinion or from a study? I ask because the list seems a bit anti-women to me, which is not necessarily very helpful. Women also commit suicide, even if it's less frequently, and suffer from mental health issues.

Theres a really interesting article by[url= http://freakonomics.com/2011/08/31/new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-the-suicide-paradox/ ] Freakenomics[/url] that looks at the variance of suicide rates by class/gender/race/country/culture.

Suicide is most prevalent in groups that feel that they have the political / cultural upper hand. If for instance in the US if you're male, black and poor and unhappy you externalise your anger at your unhappiness because you feel the odds are stacked against you and that unhappiness manifests as a lashing out - crime and violence- even though really its a form of self harm as the results of that action for the individual are their likely death or imprisonment. If you're white and middle class and american and feeling the same unhappiness - you're aware that the odds are stacked in your favour, you can't blame 'the world' so you blame yourself.

So its maybe more a case that men maybe can't point their unhappiness outwards at an external factor such as gender inequality so they direct blame inwardly instead. And maybe in that state of self-blame its difficult to seek help and perhaps its difficult to see where its offered. Perhaps because there are well developed campaigns and support for women's rights and wellbeing maybe that serves to amplify that sense that men have that their unhappiness is their own failing.

The problem with[url= https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/spirit-level ] inequality is its bad for everyone but in different ways[/url] - suicide is part of a constellation of ill-effects of unequal societies; Suicide and murder and violence and obesity and teen pregnancy and substance abuse and criminality and so on and so on. They're all self-destructive results of the same core problem, just manifesting themselves differently depending on where someone is within that un-equal mix. Although there are have and have-nots there aren't any winners. Our short comings, collectively, comes from looking at each of those effects in isolation and trying to tackle them in isolation.

Some really interesting points there maccruiskeen, never thought of it like that

Interesting food for thought ^

I've had several episodes of severe depression with suicidal feelings over the past 25 years, interspersed with years of feeling fine. I appreciate the difference between feeling suicidal and attempting it, but it still gives me some insight. Many people do have horrific problems that might drive them towards suicide, but for myself, I can't pinpoint a cause within society. I haven't experienced drug problems, unemployment, gender inequality, etc. And when I've been feeling at rock-bottom I've not been aware of any "well developed campaigns or support groups" for suicidal women that I could turn to. Which goes back to my point that even though men may be slightly different, it's a problem for women too, and women should be part of the solution.

Sometimes the cause isn't society, and even when it is, we need to understand why some people cope while others don't?
Badnewz- I didn't know about the attitude of that MP. Truly appalling.
However, Your list to me had a slightly anti-women flavour. The bit about men being made to look like buffoons in the media wasn't about economic issues, and suggests you don't think that happens to women too?

Very good points there Maccruisken. We live in a culture of victims vs victimisers, with British men being identified as the historical victimisers, although I think the tide is starting to turn on this.

It's a secular version of original sin - we are responsible for our ancestors' activities (the empire, the oppression of women, etc).

That's why Jess Phillips MP laughed at the possibility of having a debate about mens issues in parliament. British men simply have too much "previous" as victimisers to be seen in any way as victims.

Your comment about men being made to look like buffoons in the media wasn't about economic issues, and suggests you don't think that happens to women too?

I've not noticed negative portrayals of women on tv and film. But you could give some examples?

My view is that women are not to blame for the plight of men. Infact, they are suffering together, particularly the mothers of men who have committed suicide.

I've not noticed negative portrayals of women on tv and film. But you could give some examples?

Unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

The dreaded one word dismissal!

The second thread in a week that badnewz has tried to turn a discussion about male mental health issues and suicide into an attack on women.