Calling all pedants...
 

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[Closed] Calling all pedants.

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Posts: 12
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Are the two sentences correct?

John and Paul's news was underwhelming.  (because the news belongs to both of them - they're announcing the same thing)

John's and Paul's cars are ruined. (two different cars - the two men drove into each other)

Finally, Paul and James' cars or Paul and James's cars? What's the style du jour?

TIA


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 8:35 am
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Their cars

They're cars

There cars?


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 8:40 am
 hels
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They are all wrong and should be reworded to avoid the double possessive apostrophe.

"John and Paul drove into each other, ruining both cars".

The James'/James's thing is optional, both are ugly.  Again, you should reword to avoid the clumsy construction.

I strongly believe the possessive apostrophe should be dropped from English - 99% of people get it wrong, and you can infer the possession from the context.


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 8:44 am
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@stevied

your unhelpful / you're unhelpful?

đŸ™‚

@hels

I agree with you on the whole but you're assuming that extra information is necessary or desired eg. the method of ruination. A simple (not in the linguistic sense) sentence can meet the writer's needs with a genitive s.

Why is the construction clumsy? Why should the fact that lots of people fail mean we should drop something*?

*see long division


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 9:30 am
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It's considered cheating to get other people to do your homework, even if you're the teacher. đŸ˜‰


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 9:33 am
 IHN
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The news from John and Paul was underwhelming

Would be bettererist.


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 9:34 am
 hels
Posts: 971
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The possessive apostrophe only lingers on in the language to help clever people feel smug.  It has no useful purpose - there are better ways to denote possession and it looks ugly.


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 9:36 am
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[url= https://preview.ibb.co/goMS9K/43_B02167_D7_B1_4_FE9_80_FA_DBED997_D70_B5.pn g" target="_blank">https://preview.ibb.co/goMS9K/43_B02167_D7_B1_4_FE9_80_FA_DBED997_D70_B5.pn g"/> [/img][/url]


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 9:54 am
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Also, at which point did John transfer ownership of his car to James?


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 9:58 am
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it strikes me that the possessive apostrophe is a 'case', like wot they have a lot of in slavic languages. I can't think of any other examples in English though - are there any?


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 11:24 am
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Thanks all.

@doris5000

Yes, the genitive case.

@perchy

It's considered outsourcing đŸ™‚


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 12:07 pm
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John and Paul drove into each other, ruining both cars while Ringo looked on in horror.


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 3:01 pm
 ajaj
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If I recall correctly Fowler says James's. Unless you're talking about a deity named James. Same rule for corporate entities.

Most people use the possessive in everyday speech so it seems somewhat futile, Orwellian even, to campaign to remove it from the written language.


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 7:04 pm
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John and Paul's music was underwhelming?


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 7:29 pm
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It’s insulting our intelligence to suggest most of us are incapable of understanding possessive apostrophes. Greek grammar is far more difficult than English grammar but they manage perfectly well without dumbing it down.


 
Posted : 01/10/2018 10:11 pm
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My position is similar to the others who have suggested the sentences are clumsy.  There is more to "well-written" than just getting the grammar correct. I'm also of the opinion that it's not particularly hard to use apostrophes correctly, (but clearly harder than not caring about it..) No reason to remove them, IMHO.

And since all the pedants are here now, I can recommend they read this (if they haven't already) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_%26_Leaves

EDIT : Since the pedants possibly are here, the above book is for entertainment value, not as a reference work.


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 8:29 am
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Loving the graph joke, though I must admit it took me a while.

I guess that's the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.

đŸ™‚


 
Posted : 02/10/2018 12:19 pm

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