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Going to get a caravan but this means will need to swap the car for something a bit heavier.
Ideally just want to try and do a straight swap so after something thats similar value to mine, ie 13k
Thinking of a 2L mondeo, or is it better to get some sort of 4x4 thing for towing eg like a ford Kuga / Kia sportage.
Needs to be either Ford / Vauxhall / Kia / Seat / Honda as these are the only garages near me for servicing.
Looking at caravans upto 1480 MTPLM 1263 MIRO and car needs to seat two adults + 2 kids in car seats + bikes on roof.
Thanks
As I understand it a longer wheelbase is more important than just the weight.
[url= https://caravanchronicles.com/understanding-the-dynamics-of-towing-pt-2/ ]Dynamics of towing[/url]
It's mostly about the weight in practice. Your car has to be heavy enough to tow the van you want, and have sufficient power (which a diesel will). There's a traditional 85% rule which can be stretched nowadays. Google for towing calculator or similar.
I've noticed that they tend to make caravans to match common categories of car. So there's a range of vans around 1400kg which a small SUV can manage, a range aroud 1200kg or so for the regular cars. As cars get lighter, vans are doing so too. You could probably tow a 1480kg van with a diesel Mondeo etc (an older one) but whilst I've not tried it I think that you'd be better off with a lighter van. As said, some decent spacious lighter vans these days.
You don't need a 4x4 though. It does help on muddy sites, but IMO you don't want to be paying for that convenience the rest of the year in extra fuel and purchase cost. Saloons are very capable tow cars, just means you can't go for a big heavy van. Our Passat is very stable, but then our van is very old and only 850kg MIRO (despite being 18ft long!). If you load a van well then driving it around is easy peasy and I doubt you'd need to worry about wheelbase and such.
The towing calculators compare the MTPLM of the van to the kerb weight of the car - which is the worst case scenario, full van empty car.
Could get a quattro type car, Octavia 4x4 or similar. Think they would make good tow cars...
One thing that would help though, and I really want, is self levelling rear suspension. It's an option on Passat estates but not sure how common it is; standard on Volvos I think.
I woudn't particularly be bothered by the 4x4 Octavia/normal car types tbh, unless it came with the levelling suspension.
My next car won't be 4x4 but I will still tow.
Do a search on Caravan Club and Camping and Caravanning Club www, they do annual tow car surveys. We've towed our ~1450kg van with an E Class and currently a VW Caravelle. So I'd say no, you don't need a 4x4 to pull a caravan. Our Caravelle is better than the E Class, despite the Merc's self leveling suspension. Tow ball height is important too, see loads of vehicles with vans tilted forwards or backwards which influences how it tows etc.
Tow ball height is important too, see loads of vehicles with vans tilted forwards or backwards which influences how it tows etc.
That's not towball height as such, it's because people load them up nose heavy.
Noseweight should be 5-7% of the total van by traditional numbers, which is quite a bit for a larger van. It can weigh the back of our car down so we end up either not putting much heavy in the boot or using rubber bumbers in the rear springs. Lately I've not bothered with the bumpers but then we have a light van.
thanks for the replies.
Looking at lighter vans as well, the weight i mentioned above is the weight of the heaviest we're considering.
Any advice regarding second hand vans? They seem to hold their value pretty well, some of the 5yr old ones (well ones in decent condition and sold with 12 months+ warranty) are only a few thousand cheaper than a new one. So not sure whether we should just borrow a bit more and go for a new one with the full 10 year warranty as we'll probably be keeping it this long. ALl i seem to read about used vans is about the dreaded damp!
Any manufacturers better than others?
Looking at Bailey, Sprite and Adria, possible Elddis Xplore range as well altough seem to be more reports of shoddy build with these. Max van budget is 15-16k (that would be if we went for a new one)
Grandfather used to tow a caravan with a Rover 213 (Skoda Rapid before that).....think we had something like an Elddis Tornado or that sort of size, only time we struggled pulling was in a wet field trying to pull it up hill (we used to show stationary engines at vintage rallies), my uncle in recent years towed with a Renualt Clio diesel but he did have a lightweight caravan. So the whole 4x4 thing always mystifies me, more want over need IMHO unless you need a 3ton towing limit.
What licence you have will also limit your choices, I'm not 100% on the weights but Mondo with that sort of caravan might need a B+E licence, me being a pup didn't get the granddad rights so I'm stuck with tents....
Cheers, Steve
In the last few years they have started doing something about the damp - wood free construction. So personally I would get one of these... Bailey alu-tech is one such.
Bailey Pursuit is under your budget new, also check out Swift, their cheaper ones look good too. Unlike bikes, cheaper usually means lighter.
My folks have a Bailey Senator which is probably as heavy as you can get without going twin axle, our Mondeo takes it fine. Just make sure it's the 140 or above as the 120 is pretty sluggish with the heavier loads (we have teh 140, my dad had the 120). My recommendation would be a 2.2 160 as they are the most economical of the lot due to higher torque, my 140 will do 44mpg on a long run or 42mpg day to day.
Licence isn't an issue so long as it comes under the 3500kg gross train weight.
So the whole 4x4 thing always mystifies me, more want over need IMHO unless you need a 3ton towing limit.
I think a vehicle with a 3000kg towing limit that is towing a 1500kg van is going to be less hard on the tow car and a whole lot better as a driving experience. Fewer gear changes, maintaining speed up the hills etc, and, of course, won't get bogged down in wet fields.
I'm not convinced that a Kuga will be much better than a Mondeo, a proper 4x4 on the other hand.
Molgrips is right regarding the towball thing, I didn't explain it well enough. We have a Bailey Olympus, bought new, and whilst it's been great, Bailey's aftercare hasn't been great following major repairs post storm damage. We'll likely swap it early next year as the kids are now too big to sit up in the bunks. Ours is a 2010 Alutech model, pre-GRP, so dents easily too. That said it's been everything we wanted and have had some great trips in it.
We'll likely swap it early next year as the kids are now too big to sit up in the bunks
How old are your kids, and are they double or triple bunks? We're looking at ones with bunk beds but never thought about the sitting up in bed thing.
Subaru Forester, an old S-turbo or XT.
Practical caravan towcar of the year for 50 years on the trot...
How much you want for that van spud? 🙂
Re fixed bunks - they've recently started doing them with only two bunks rather than three, specifically because older kids can't sit up.
Caravan club do towcar reviews every year, but in different categories so there is a separate one for SUVs.
Going to get a caravan but this means will need to swap the car for something a bit heavier.
Seeing as though the caravan weight will determine what weight car you need, I'd be getting a rough idea of the caravan you want first
Ours are now 10 & 8, it is a 6 berth van, with a triple and a single that comes from the table/ seats in a room at the back. We bought it for that reason knowing at some point we'd need to swap. we've had it 5 1/2 years now. Next van will have two single beds for them. Ours also doesn't have a central console thing at the front, so seating all the way round. Great for sitting as a family as more space to spread out. We'd do the same again. It's an Olympus 546 if you want to look and get an idea of what it looks like.
Just buy a Range Rover
Ford Ranger is an excellent tow car, plenty of room on the back for bikes etc and comfy enough it won't make the family ill.
Overkill the rest of the year though.
Whatever you get, take it steady. Especially if you're driving down the A55 in North Wales - barely a weekend goes by without somebody's "rig" exceeding its design parameters:
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(I think they should put these up as big posters alongside the A55 to try and remind people that they need to take care, no matter what they're towing with)
Whatever you get, take it steady.
It's not just speed that's the problem there, it's not knowing how to load and look after your van. There's lots to know. For example, both our vans have rear toilets. If you don't empty the toilet before you leave and it's half full, it'll slosh around and waggle the back of the van.
People often look at tyres on old vans and think 'oh there's plenty of tread on those' not realising they are far too old and unsafe. Tyres have an age limit.
We tow our Swift Expression (1350 mptlm) with a Freelander. Use to use my T5 but got rid of that this year.
The T5 was a great tow vehicle but struggled on grassy campsites, especially in the wet. The Hippo tows well but the fuel economy is affected more than it was in the van.
My old 159 was a great tow car the mrs passat is capable but very soft on the rear suspension, so needs more careful loading.
Also be aware of what your following on the road car trasporters are a know problem apparently.
[i]Licence isn't an issue so long as it comes under the 3500kg gross train weight.[/i]
No, its quite a bit more complicated than that since 1997.
Rear wheel drive cars traditionally have a higher tow limit as part of the criteria that determines tow limit is how well the car can pull away on a steep gradient. This is also why 4x4's fare well, good traction and a low ratio gear box. Faux 4x4's such as the Kuga are unlikely to be much better than a normal RWD saloon, in fact some vehicles (Honda CRV?) have a weedy part time 4x4 system that can't actually deal with high torque and will limit the effort they put out.
My 2.3l camper will tow 3500kg (train weight of 7000kg), simply as it has big brakes, rear wheel drive and a low first gear.
Does any one know if there is a proper testing criteria for the published towing weights or is it just set by the car maker.
Our defender has a kerb weight around 1800kg but had a braked trailer weight of 3500 ?
Pretty sure it's standardised, but it's probably the car maker who decides if it should be lower based on the cars ability to handle the weight.
Caravans are more unstable hence the 85~100% advice, but if you are towing a shorter more compact trailer like a horsebox, plant trailer etc it's quite normal for the trailer to be heavier than the tow car.
However, if you have a towing entitlement from before 1997 and haven't taken a specific towing test, I think there is a limitation on the licence that states you can only tow trailers that do not exceed the kerbweight (or perhaps gross weight?) of the tow car.
Looks like no kerb weight trailer weight ratio for pre 97 licence holders only a 8.25 train weight limit when Useing a tow vehicle over 3500kg
[url= http://digg.com/2016/trailer-weight-distribution ]Perfect demonstration of why getting the weight on your tow hitch right.[/url]
I have about 110kg on my hitch when pulling the boat.
orangeboy, yep can't see anything in there, but I have heard it a few times from those who hold C1E with grandfather rights. Perhaps its a common miss-conception.
[b]Licences issued from 1 January 1997[/b]
If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:
drive a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
[b]Licences issued before 1 January 1997[/b]
If you passed your car test before 1 January 1997 you’re usually allowed to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8,250kg MAM. View your driving licence information to check.
You’re also allowed to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kg MAM.
Cheers, Steve
Back around 1968/9/70, my folks used to have a caravan, a Sprite Major, towed by a Ford Corsair, used to take it down to Beesands in South Devon, which involved very narrow, steep lanes, and was pretty hairy at times, but they managed it. Properly loaded, with RWD, made a difference.
Getting the van properly balanced is key; coming out of Salisbury one morning, on one of the stretches which are tree-lined and steep-ish, a car coming uphill towards me towing a van suddenly started snaking heavily, weaving across onto my side of the road! Scared me shitless, I had nowhere at all to go, there was only a bank topped with trees, but fortunately the weaving went away from me as I hit the brakes.
I had to find a place to pull in and sit for a few minutes, I was really shaken by that incident.
Not caravan, but we have a 1800kg ski boat and trailer, it's got a massive V8 which luckily is in the middle of the boat so making it pretty balanced to tow. However, my co owner mate bought a new Faux 4x4/SUV sportage /kuga type thing and it's totally useless, so much so that I've decided to keep the Navara instead of him taking over towing duties. It can barely pull the boat out of the lake, just losing traction instantly, so a caravaner would certainly struggle in a muddy field. Towing uphill and down dale, he said he was really struggling and feared the restart if stopped on a hill (not sure of it's engine size, but def not enough). His old BMW big 4x4 was the best tow we've had, 3.5l engine and some counter weight, The Navara is very good as well.
You can manage with a normal car. I've not got stuck yet, but that's because I'm aware of where I'm putting the thing.
I'd not tow an 1800kg van with the Passat though, of course!
We towed our 1270kg MIRP / 1500kg MTPLM, with a Mondeo. It was ok but the Galaxy is in a different league. Its about 1800kg.
There's a lot you can do to weigh the scales in your favour when it comes to safety. Tyre pressures for a start, typically rears are a lot higher for towing, & it makes a BIG difference. Keeping the car in good order, brakes etc. Loading the caravan, low & over the axle. Nose-weight, ideally 7% or the max for the car if lower. Don't try & lighten a nose-heavy van by sticking heavier things towards the rear van. We used to pack the Mondeo to the gills, all the heavy stuff in the car.
The 85% suggestion is a good rule. Modern cars are pretty capable unless you do something stupid, but if an outfit is inherently unstable to start with the margin for error is significantly reduced. Modern systems such as ATC (an electronic anti-snaking system that sequentially applies the brakes to try to control a snaking trailer), stabilisers, vehicle systems like traction control, ABS etc; should make it safer but you've still got to follow basic good practice. Speed is the obvious one, as is leaving more stopping room & planning your manoeuvres ahead.
There was a statistic some years ago, suggesting that the majority of caravan crashes were with outfits pulled by 4x4's, because of a belief by owners that a heavy 4x4 was basically infallible. I don't know about that but I have come across this attitude on a few occasions.
I've been glad of friendly 4x4 drivers on a few occasions, when we've gone on fields etc. I remember getting stuck on a wet, sloping grass site once. A friend with a Discovery 4 popped a towing eye in our front bumper & pulled the whole lot up a slope like it was a dry car park. As good as it was, I wouldn't want one as a regular car. The Galaxy is perfect, tonnes of room inside, returns 40mpg solo & makes a fab bike bus.
[url= https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5230/5656634895_431c9267c5_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5230/5656634895_431c9267c5_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/9BRJtR ]Car & Caravan-1[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr
Nicely loaded rig there taki 🙂