[Closed] Call out duty anyone?

I have no experience of the situation but it doesn’t sound reasonable to me. I’d expect some sort of compensation just for having to be 15 minutes away from dawn until midnight, never mind then having to actually do some work. In essence they are asking you to give up your time without being compensated for it. What does your contract say?

Your first stance should be: If he wants you to be available then he pays you for the hours you are available. If he doesnt like then he can do it himself.

On negotiation don't go below 50% of yuour day rate + your hourly rate for each hour or part of you are working.

I appreciate with the nature of the job and if other people are willing to do the work he may have you over a barrel.

We get paid a fee for being on call, even if we don't get called. The on call fee is higher at weekends than weekdays. In addition we get paid if we get called out. Can't remember if it's time and a half or double time, not done it since I changed role a few years back.

Ultimately the company need to make it suitably attractive to the workforce or no bugger will want to do it.

Sounds like your boss is taking the preverbial. Unless it's in your contract I'd politely decline the offer to be on call. If it is in your contract I'd be looking for a new job.

When I was Oncall it was 1 week in 4, I got paid £56 a week extra oncall + whatever extra hours I worked. Some of my Colleagues were on different contracts so got better oncall (20%) salary hike that week.

We were expected to be an hour max from our vans (so didn’t matter what time of day the phone rang I was ALWAYS riding, out or walking the dog).

Min callout 2 hours if it was something we could fix over the phone/or it was rubbish, or 4 hours if we had to go anywhere.  Then once we’d hit our 12 hour limit for the day, so if you’d done 7hr standard day then max OT was 5 hrs, it was ring manager to request extension and that was usually a NO or 14 hrs MAX, then 12 hrs rest before the next call.

Ask your Boss if a fatigue based accident would go down well with the HSE.

oh and if I really didn’t want to be disturbed the phone would get wrapped in foil and put in the fridge. That way if it’s a company phone and they look at the logs they won’t see it being switched Off, just a return to coverage message when you unwrap it.

The contract is rather vague..just says you are expected to do a call out duty...no details at all.....after doing this a couple of times I am not prepared to do any more ...I feel it is an unreasonable expectation that wasn't really clear until undertaking a duty.......TBH I don't really give a monkeys at this time of my life (59) and won't lose any sleep if the job goes down the pan...just interested in what the hive mind thinks.

OP you describe Stand-by not Call-out. Stand-by is usually considered a payable duty whether you need to attend or not.

Oh yeah..our main local competition are 2 companies both set up by disgruntled former employee's...Go figure!

Out of interest, what are your contracted hours?

I'm paid a standby fee that's a set rate for the week whether I'm called out or not then whatever overtime rate I'm entitled to when called out.

If work are placing restrictions on what I can do on my time off then I want payment. Likewise if I actually have to go in to work on my time off I want payment.

I currently get nothing extra for being on stand by and a whole £10 if I have to go in. So until work come up with a something better I'm not doing it.

I'd be telling him to poke it (although I would have asked what the on call rate was before I started...)

As an absolute minimum I'd expect to be paid for the time on call at my standard rate and then paid extra for any time that I actually worked.

Only just above minimum wage?

Just get another job.

I'm on a 25hr a week full time contract....between May and November I'm expected to do as many hours as necc to get the jobs done..on top of which is this call out duty...quite happy to do the former but not the latter.

At our place, iic, we are on £25 per 12 hours on call (able to respond within a reasonable time frame, sober and with all our kit) and then double time for weekends or time and a half if on call during the week for the actual time out on the tasking. I hate being on standby it's a real pita and if I wasn't getting paid I'd definitely not be impressed.

I’m expected to do as many hours as necc to get the jobs done..on top of which is this call out duty…quite happy to do the former but not the latter.

Sounds like this is coming very close to breaking minimum wage laws here

I was paid about £180 (after tax) for a 1 in 4 week callout.  It worked out about £22 each night from Monday to Saturday, and £44 for the Sunday.

If you got called, it was a minimum 3hr OT, OT for the duration including night rate (+30% ish?)

If you were not fit for work the following day the official line was you deduct the hours after midnight from your day shift and make up any shortfall (hence losing the OT rate) but in reality, you would come in late once you'd had a few hours sleep, earn the OT and make an effort to do at least part of your day.

I didn't mind the weeknight callouts too much but the weekend ones killed it for me, in the daytime it meant I couldn't ride as it would take too long to get back to the house and then to work, if it was an all nighter I would feel like crap the following day anyway.

We would often try and work OT at the weekend as you are earning anyway, and if you get called you just drop the job you are on and go to the fault/damage report.

I'd expect a fee equivalent to a days work for being on standby then 1.5-2 x wage for actual hours worked on the day but standby hours paid reduced by amount of hours I'd done.

EG if normal day was 8hrs @£10ph then I'd expect £80 for being on standby and wasting a precious day off, but if I got called in for 4 hours then I'd expect 4hrs @£10ph for wasting a precious morning off plus 4hrs @£15-20ph for overtime.

I'd tell him to stick it otherwise, and look for options elsewhere if he is unreasonable. If he is that unreasonable then he'd likely get rid of you anyway.

[i]I’d expect a fee equivalent to a days work for being on standby then 1.5-2 x wage for actual hours worked on the day but standby hours paid reduced by amount of hours I’d done.[/i]

Thats never gonna happen, especially for an event from 7am to midnight.  Its either in your contract for free, or you get some sort of retainer payment for the inconvenience.

Same industry.

Firstly we would never leave kit on site without a duty op/babysitter who's there to deal with the kind ofissues that would require a call out - especially on a one dayer, and they'd be charging their normal day rate (all freelance)

Secondly if we want someone to do something we expect to have to pay for it. If we want a freelancer to turn up, it costs us a day rate, even if its a simple strike for an hour or 2. If we need a warehouse guy in to cover a possible need to prep emergency kit they'll either get paid overtime of TOIL depending on what their contract is, and they'll be sat in the warehouse waiting for calls.

Unless your a project manager, full time site staff in the events industry is a stitch up and leaves you open to abuse as the hours are so unpredictable. If you're even halfway decent at your job you should be freelance. Our weakest guys charge about £175/12hr day. The good ones with special skills are not far off £300.

NHS here, I get a local agreement at the moment which means about £4 per hour standby and double time when I go in (usually an hour.) Local agreement is coming to an end though and I'll be on £1 something per hour standby. There's 10 on call staff in my dept at the moment.

I’m on call every night midnight till 6am, Sunday night it’s 10pm till 6am, luckily it’s not just me but we don’t get paid for it, we occasionally mute the call so it goes to the next person in line, I mistakenly blocked the number on my iPhone for 6 months....

We do get paid the minute we get the call till we get back home after the call out, in the last year I’ve had 5 call outs due to break in attempts, one was particularly bad I had never seen so many police at 3am it was that bad I couldn’t go in the building as the police dogs where in the building looking for the burglars.

Christmas is the only time we get paid but it’s specifically targeted over that period. It’s £75 for the day and our hourly rate if we get called out.

I used to get a flat rate for being on call plus paid overtime for every call attended. I kicked it into touch when I turned 30. Certainly wouldn’t do it now (40’s)unless my mortgage depended on it.

For not much more than minimum wage i’d find another job personally.

What would be a reasonable expectation to be paid for this?.

£5k take home a month?

😇

Totally different area of work, but I was looking at jobs in fraud and surveillance with HMRC this week, and because of the potential longer hours/unsocial hours they were offering an annual allowance to reflect it.

I get £35 +2hrs at double or time and a half if I get called out. Depending on the day or time any time at time and half or double.

Standby time is working time if it places restrictions on what you can do. Being available by phone is (probably) not working time, being only a short distance from a certain place is. Minimum wage laws are almost certainly being broken, back pay up to 6 years can be claimed.

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/on-call-standby-shifts-working-time

http://www.oxcow.co.uk/employment-law-national-minimum-wage-standby-arrangements

https://www.gov.uk/minimum-wage-different-types-work

What counts as working time
For all types of work, include time spent:

• at work and required to be working, or on standby near the workplace (but don’t include rest breaks that are taken)

bloody hell this forum is hard work. Can't seem to fix that formatting.

My on-call (NHS) is a 1 in 6 rota.  The rate is £1.66 per hour stand-by, no matter what grade you are on - then paid at c.1.5 times hourly rate for any work >30 minutes.  <30 minutes is "free".   In practice, for my sort of role, no-one claims for paid time.

Unless it's really, really bad, mine is all by phone - and the only stipulation about where you are is that you are in the UK (national organisation).  I don't mind it too much, but it'll be nice not to do it one day.  It averages at about £100 per month for some lighter and occasionally disturbed sleep / weekends.

I'm taking it in turns with two colleagues (so usually on 2-3 nights a week)  to be on call from 7pm to 7am at the moment and have been since the start of November through until April. We get £15 a night allowance but if we get a call we would inevitably be required to go into work, due to the nature of the role. We would then receive time and a half overtime for the hours at work. It's a bit of pita right through Christmas as it means I can't have a drink on a few nights when I otherwise might, but it comes with the territory.

Oncall sucks pipe. I get £300 for a week and have to do 1 in 4. During the winter I dont really care as im not up to much,. But during the summer it cuts into my biking. Would rather not do it all at.

I guess ,for me,it's all about the principal...tired of people wanting something for nothing,tired of putting max effort in just to get kicked in the nut's again...guess it will all kick off on Monday.

Thanks everyone,some useful stuff there.

Not just the principle check the min wage stuff, pointing that out and the risk of being done for up to 6 years worth of back pay for everyone he might have employed might make a change of heart. If the business can't afford to pay it's staff legally then it's not going to survive so a good sign to get out

I work in the civil service and am on standby (cat 1 responder) at the moment. I’ll get £128 ish for the week plus x1.5 time in the evenings and Sat and x2 normal wage after midnight or Sunday.

For the work I do I think that’s reasonable, it’s a pain when you don’t get any extra hours in as the £128 isn’t much when it’s been taxed etc but if we get something massive in I could be working 20/30 extra hours in a week and that’s quite nice (I wouldn’t have to do my day job if that happened though).

My standby payments are the reason I've not changed jobs in 7 years.

I do one in 3, which means some weekends im on call fri night and all day saturfay and sunday, but don't have to be anywhere other than by the internet with my laptop. It's a massive pain in the area in the summer when I'd rather be out riding.

One of those weekend shifts is about an extra 50% of my basic.

Totally different area of work, but I was looking at jobs in fraud and surveillance with HMRC this week, and because of the potential longer hours/unsocial hours they were offering an annual allowance to reflect it.

Ah the joys of HMRC Investigations Allowance, one would need to be very careful that 1) they actually abide by wtd and don’t run you ragged because you’re on the allowance 2) you don’t find yourself 300 miles from home for weeks on end in some crappy hotel.

Wish I'd never opened this thread. I was called into work at 4.30 this morning .  Still here until lunchtime at least .. Talk about tempting fate!

Oh and what kilo said. My wife was a customs surveillance officer for two years. She left the police to do it and was drawn to it by the better (but not significantly better) salary but if she had put those hours in as a cop she'd have earned a fortune. She left.

Out tech support staff are paid for being on the on-call rota, so even if there is no call, they get some compensation for being near home / work (remote IT support).

I absolutely hate standby especially in summer buts its part of my job role. It ties you down to where you can go and what you can do and its 24/7 once every 6 weeks. Then at bank holidays they expect the teams to put an extra 2 people on. Some people love it but i'm not one of them.

Our standby/on-call rate is £2 an hour then 1.5x rate on call-out. I used to be on the rota a few years back (1 week in 3) and would get called out 2 or 3 times a year so it was like free money. The team now gets 2 or 3 call outs a week (different, much bigger contract), although I miss the money I wouldn't want to do it for that with that frequency of call-out. As for the OP - your boss is taking the piss unless it's some sort of best endeavours (e.g. we may call you but you're under no obligation to be in a fit state to work or even answer your phone) which it doesn't sound like.

Being on-call is very disruptive, you absolutely should be compensated for it.

I think it's £350 here for 1/4 weeks. Then either 1.5 or 2.0 depending on weekday/weekend if called out.

1 call even if 2 minutes =  1 hour.

As an on-call firefighter I have to be within 5 minutes of the station and get the paltry sum of 37p per hour.

It's a good thing I like the job

I really have jinxed myself posting on here.

On call again last night. Finished at 8pm but was still taking phone calls at 1045 last night

For another call followed by a series of emails to read at 2.30am. Couldn't get back to sleep and have been in work since 5.

Excellent.

After a spirited discussion the ball is in their court now...the directors refuse to talk to me in person..all happens through my op's manager.....what a way to run a business!

the directors refuse to talk to me in person

Why would you expect them to ?

At our place, iic, we are on £25 per 12 hours on call

£2 an hour? seriously?

i do hope you mean £25/hr?

i don't get this whole thread, surely if you have to be at the end of a phone/internet/close-by/not pissed/not able to go and do stuff on your time then you need to be paid whether you are actually doing work or not?

i have been self employed all my life so no experience of this but i wouldn’t stand for that.

As an on-call firefighter I have to be within 5 minutes of the station and get the paltry sum of 37p per hour.

It’s a good thing I like the job

it costs me more than that to heat my home if i’m sat at home, not including coffee and biscuits.

Nope £25 per 12 hrs and if you're called out you go onto o/t. Managment hate paying it because it racks up quite quickly when you have a full team on stand by so they ask you to 'be available" which means you can gt on with your life and only pitch out if you feel like it