[Closed] Calais Migrant camp- a conversation

chewkw "There are simply not enough jobs to go around and you are talking about small population?"
No I asked how you believe having a working age population too small to pay for your pension is a "utopia" your wording not mine.

"By the way when you retire you are obsolete" again I am quoting you from your earlier post Chewkw I disagree with your statement.

And then "Are you saying that old people have voted wrongly because they have decided to vote for party that they see fit?"
No I was saying
"Secondly who assumes that older people are a minority,and that they're "obsolete“ They often have a strong influence on UK politics as they are most likely to vote "
Then Chewkw you posted this
"By your assumption old people are the majority voters hence they naturally gravitate towards voting against immigrants because they are most likely to vote and you feel that they are unjust "

I made no assumption about old people. I said that they are not a minority as the UK has an ageing population they make up a large and growing sector of the population, this doesn't mean that they are the majority either. As surveys have indicated that older people have historically been more likely to vote than other age groups they have therefore been targeted by political parties at election time giving perhaps greater influence than you might expect on a per centage of the population basis. I don't see old people as one homogenous group and I made no assumption at all about how they vote. So this garbage is all your own work
" they naturally gravitate towards voting against immigrants "

Lets be clear that is your "assumption " Chewkw not mine! Nor did I make comment on whether or not "they" the old people were "unjust" so again all your own work Chewkw . Not what I said at all. So I notice that at the end of all your assumptions you couldn't answer my question.

With all the good will in the world we (Europe) could very well balls this up. Technically speaking, we already have with ridiculous intervention and inaction. Currently trying to light a match in a hurricane.

These refugees need immediate help and support, but there has to be a long term solution, somehow we have to create a vacuum that will allow these people to go home and salvage their lives.

My worry would be Europe being dragged into a ground campaign to fix Daesh, and subsequently move them onto less fronts. To do so would undoubtedly cause more civilian deaths and leave any military force facing the same reprisals it has before.

People, left, right and those sat on the fence need to be very clear that the only way to restore order is military action. That involves deaths, lots of deaths, and civilians will be the largest proportion. Are people actually ready for that again?

Because in some parts we caused it, in others we've ignored it, we now have a huge humanitarian issue that could very well turn into a security issue if it isn't managed correctly. The reason I say this is not because of what some EDL/BF loon is spouting, but because using my experience and knowledge from my job, it's what I'd do.

So, I will repeat, we could balls this up because there's a strong likelihood it will be done half arsed, and without a clear and coherent goal (Iraq/Afghanistan)and that saddens me to the core. 🙁

Bloody Saturday telly ... now back to STW coz many people are wrong ... 😈

gordimhor - Member
No I asked how you believe having a working age population too small to pay for your pension is a "utopia" your wording not mine.

The assumption is that to sustain pension you need more migrant workers if I read you correctly or if I read the previous thread correctly whatever, now my question is that why do you need more foreign workers to sustain pension when there is still unemployment in current population? Can't you get current population to fill the gaps? Utopia in the sense that things will work out fine if there is a sudden influx of immigrants to boost economy hence pension ... well there is something fishy there if I may say so.

You might have a pension but I only started mine two years ago not because I wanted one but for whatever reason I was told it was compulsory. But up until then I having been saving for the future so what is all this scare about not having enough pension to live on? Makes no sense to me ...

I made no assumption about old people. I said that they are not a minority as the UK has an ageing population they make up a large and growing sector of the population, this doesn't mean that they are the majority either. As surveys have indicated that older people have historically been more likely to vote than other age groups they have therefore been targeted by political parties at election time giving perhaps greater influence than you might expect on a per centage of the population basis. I don't see old people as one homogenous group and I made no assumption at all about how they vote. So this garbage is all your own work

The previous post started talking or seem to imply that older voters tends to hold firm to the out dated "ideology" or assumption about mass immigration negatively etc (the topic was about the current situation)... when you joined in I assumed you were heading in the similar direction, otherwise what is the point of associating old voters in this thread, (the general assumption is that they older voters tend to vote Tories) whether they are majority or minority or more likely to vote or targeted more by politicians, if they do not impact on voting pattern?

Also what planet are you on when you talked about politicians targeting older voters because they are more likely to vote? Are you saying there is a segment of the society not target by election campaign? Are you saying young people are not targeted by election campaign/politicians? By applying the phrase of younger generation ... OMG! (O me goat!) 😯

So what are you saying exactly? Who vote for what? Explain ... 🙄

Lets be clear that is your "assumption " Chewkw not mine! Nor did I make comment on whether or not "they" the old people were "unjust" so again all your own work Chewkw . Not what I said at all. So I notice that at the end of all your assumptions you couldn't answer my question.

You have the answers? 😯 In other words are you implying that you have all the answers? 😮

Let's try it another way by considering ALL my assumptions as illogical ... which naturally mean that you are the logical one with all correct answers so let's hear them ...

Over to you. 😆

moose - Member

With all the good will in the world we (Europe) could very well balls this up. Technically speaking, we already have with ridiculous intervention and inaction. Currently trying to light a match in a hurricane.

It is what it is ... humanity never learns and only if each of us start to restraint ourselves in all forms (especially greed) there shall be hope, otherwise the cycle of doom continues. 🙂

My worry would be Europe being dragged into a ground campaign to fix Daesh, and subsequently move them onto less fronts. To do so would undoubtedly cause more civilian deaths and leave any military force facing the same reprisals it has before.

That's inevitable coz the answer is not if or but when and how much pain we will endure before a short period of peace ...

People, left, right and those sat on the fence need to be very clear that the only way to restore order is military action. That involves deaths, lots of deaths, and civilians will be the largest proportion. Are people actually ready for that again?

I am but others I am not so sure.

Because in some parts we caused it, in others we've ignored it, we now have a huge humanitarian issue that could very well turn into a security issue if it isn't managed correctly. The reason I say this is not because of what some EDL/BF loon is spouting, but because using my experience and knowledge from my job, it's what I'd do.

Judging from our previous exchange you demonstrated your ability to reason without jumping into "my Daewoo K-20 is bigger than yours" mentality, or my god demand me to strike you down coz you don't believe in him.

So, I will repeat, we could balls this up because there's a strong likelihood it will be done half arsed, and without a clear and coherent goal (Iraq/Afghanistan)and that saddens me to the core.

Ya, is happening already so it's about damage limitation now. The reason is simply the half arsed politicians do not know how to do the right thing, yet they are very good in creating the right image for themselves.

😮

So the strategy is to round them up and put-em in camps close to the Atlantic ports, sort of circle of karma, America loves it immigrants right? make sure the x-ray scanners are broke 😉 classic Euro shuffle tactic! (do we even export anything to the states cucumber sandwiches or something) we have an advantage as an island, oh some might want to stay though, oh and it's tougher to dump them back once here, well ok any port then, solved boooooom 8)

I didn't say anything about a bloomin' pension either.

@chewkw The place to discuss pensions in depth is on another thread but broadly people have paid into compulsory pensions but the money was spent on various government projects the intention some decades ago was to fund these pensions from general taxation at the time they were needed However now that the older population has grown and the working age population shrunk in per centage terms there isn't sufficient money in the system to pay people the pensions they were promised even with full employment.So there's a need for growth in the economy and over a much longer term a need for population growth as well. As for your savings well good luck with that. In general I think it would be better if you responded to what people actually post rather than your assumptions. Now to get back on topic.

[url= ]we have room [/url]

gordimhor
we have room

Very accurate. Especially the bit about profit.

I can't believe that this thread, which was dealing with a serious subject, has deteriorated into one where people are actually engaging in pointless discussion with Chewwy. What's that all about ?

I think it's answered the op's question though. If I went to Calais, I would show them this thread and explain that British people appear to be obsessed by money and statistics and are all pretty angry, despite not having much really to worry about...

British people appear to be obsessed by money

In the case of Chewwy he's an economic migrant so there's a fair chance that he was obsessed by money before becoming a naturalised Brit.

We have room? How much room? How many of the worlds desperately needy do we have room for?

Are there any links to any backstory on the poor boys family. ( in the now infamous Photo)
Some newspaper forum posts seem to suggest the father had housing and a job in turkey.
That would but a slightly different slant on the specific case. Obviously the global issue is still shocking.

[url=

can one person do [/url]

The West is partly responsible for this mess, in particular:
- invading Iraq
- overthrowing Gaddafi
- supporting the "Freedom Fighters" in Syria, who in reality were radical Islamists hellbent on destruction

The average man in the street would conclude from this: the Middle East is better off if the West keeps out of its affairs.

Our politicians are now using the current crisis as an excuse to yet again intervene.

gordimhor - Member
In general I think it would be better if you responded to what people actually post rather than your assumptions. Now to get back on topic

I did answer albeit with no reference to of statistics whatever. Just my views. Put it this way some of the points present bear little logic at all ...
Let me summaries:

1. If they want to seek asylum then queue up and be processed. i.e. separate the real ones from the fake ones.
2. How many UK want to take is entirely up to UK. 1k, 2k, 3K ... no idea what so ever.
3. We do not need the German, who started two WW, to tell how to do things. Cameroon grow your some balls please.
4. Who is going to pay for them? Don't know?
5. How long are they going to stay? Don't Know?
6. Who should look after them? Don't know? You want to pass the bucket?
7. Forget about who started the war etc ... that's over coz there will be many wars coming.
8. Since Scotland and Wales are rather "empty" can we relocate majority of them there?

Since we are in democracy do people have a say or we have to bend our back because someone says we should take them?

I remember we are democracy so isn't that based on majority rules?
Why do you insist on telling people what to do?
Have a vote to see how many people want them?

ernie_lynch - Member

British people appear to be obsessed by money

In the case of Chewwy he's an economic migrant ...

Aren't we all?
So you want to compare money? Really! I mean really! I don't even know where to start ... oh well just read the history of empire and all that ... 😯

badnewz - Member

The West is partly responsible for this mess, in particular:
- invading Iraq
- overthrowing Gaddafi
- supporting the "Freedom Fighters" in Syria, who in reality were radical Islamists hellbent on destruction

Yes, we are partly to blame but then they worsen the situation themselves because of the nature of who they are. Yes, the nature of who they are! They need a strongman male to hold things together. NOT female.

I have always maintained that the Dear Leaders should be left alone to rule as they like and contain their own population... but oh no ... the bleeding lefties want to call for freedom and human rights (sinister intention is to overthrown govt) and being nosey in others affairs. Then the govt/whoever heard them (calling to arm this and that) and started supplying arms to anyone who opposed the Dear Leaders ...

You want to blame someone? You can blame the lefties for calling for freedom whatever rubbish they are selling nowadays ...

I bet you they (lefties) are still calling the fall of Assad. I just hope Assad stays and remains in power with backing from Russia ...

America leave Assad alone as you need him!

ernie_lynch - Member
I can't believe that this thread, which was dealing with a serious subject, has deteriorated into one where people are actually engaging in pointless discussion with Chewwy. What's that all about ?

Very simple because I make sense to some except you and your die hard possy. 🙄

the migrants themselves are from many different countries and cultures

[quote=ernie_lynch opined]I can't believe that this thread, which was dealing with a serious subject, has deteriorated into one where people are actually engaging in pointless discussion with Chewwy. What's that all about ?

THIS
Its almost always contradictory and gibberish
See points 3 and 7 up there

Junkyard - lazarus
THIS
Its almost always contradictory and gibberish
See points 3 and 7 up there

😆 Ya, I know it sounds contradictory ... point 7 is actually referring to current affairs not the past (WWII etc) so should have made that clear. Or are you referring to Cameroon? Hmmmm ... very sneaky that.

I have to type/response quickly because someone was wrong on the interweb.

p/s: The media is really going hysterical about the situation so in the name of Michael Winner ... "Calm down dear! Calm down!".

I see that the BNP thought now was a good time to stage a demonstration outside the Home Office Immigration Centre in Croydon :

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/regional/demonstration-outside-lunar-house-immigration-centre

[i]"Croydon and Sutton branch of British National party will be holding a demo outside Lunar house immigration centre on Saturday the 5th of September.

Please meet outside East Croydon railway station at 11.45 am, please bring flags and banners".[/i]

Reports claim that this wasn't exactly a massive demonstration with an estimated 15 BNP white supremacists turning up.

Unfortunately for the BNP the counter anti-fascist demonstration which was organised at the last minute (I was informed by email 4 days earlier but couldn't make it as I was on day 2 of the SDW) attracted 10 times that number.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/06/the-bnp-tried-to-hold-a-rally-and-the-amount-of-people-who-turned-up-is-utterly-hilarious-5378220/

Police keeping the 2 sides apart :

[img] [/img]

I think I've been to a meeting inside Lunar House before 🙂

</trufact>

Its almost always contradictory

Is it? I admire your fortitude that you read enough to form an opinion. I gave up long ago because it's

gibberish

How many refugees/migrants have been welcomed into the homes of STWers so far?

How many refugees/migrants have been welcomed into the homes of STWers so far?

I'm guessing none. How would you even have gone about doing that?

DrJ - Member

Its almost always contradictory

Is it? I admire your fortitude that you read enough to form an opinion. I gave up long ago because it's

gibberish

😆 Of course it is, of course it is ...

My gut instinct keep telling me something is wrong with some of the arguments and with so much inconsistency it's rather difficult to pinpoint ... oh well ... it's still interesting to know of other views. Interesting.

DrJ - Member

How many refugees/migrants have been welcomed into the homes of STWers so far?

I'm guessing none. How would you even have gone about doing that?

😆 I bet you are going to blame others now aren't you? Ya, I know ...

I bet you are going to blame others now aren't you? Ya, I know ...

gibberish

DrJ - Member

I bet you are going to blame others now aren't you? Ya, I know ...

gibberish

Oh c'mon! (said Klaus the fish 😆 )

A number of possibilities DrJ.

Invite someone on the street directly into your home. People are doing this in France entirely at their own expense.

If you have property to let or a second home rent it directly to the refugees if they can pay or one of the associations/charities that help them. I rented a flat to a guy from Côte d'Ivoire during the civil war. The problem was he spent the money he got in France helping out his family in Côte d'Ivoire so got somewhat behind with the rent. Thankfully he moved on of his own accord when a year in arrears with the rent. Depending on your contributions to this thread you'll either consider me evil for aiding an immigrant and a fool for renting out to someone likely not to pay, or congratulate me on giving him a home rent free.

Contribute to one of the charities that help/house refugees. The odds of the money reaching them is fairly low though (admin costs, salaries and overpaid managers and directors) so it's probably better to just give a £20 note to anyone who looks needy or invite them for dinner. Edit: I used to give to one of these charities but it became so big I reckon it's now just like paying tax and it's missing its main target - the very poor.

How many refugees/migrants have been welcomed into the homes of STWers so far?

I'm working on it - http://naccom.org.uk

Not really sure what your point is though.

Edukator - Troll

How many refugees/migrants have been welcomed into the homes of STWers so far?

How many daft straw man arguments have people thrown into the thread?

It would be nice to hear people are doing something.

Invite someone on the street directly into your home. People are doing this in France entirely at their own expense.

Hmm. AIUI very few Syrian refugees have actually made it to these happy shores, so the chances of bumping into one in the street are a bit slim.

It's not daft or "straw man" whatever that means. Grum obviously doesn't think so as he's working on it.

Edukator - Troll
Depending on your contributions to this thread you'll either consider me evil for aiding an immigrant and a fool for renting out to someone likely not to pay, or congratulate me on giving him a home rent free.

Hey, your life and money etc so do as you wish. Nothing wrong with that. That person owes you for your kindness if I may say so that way.

Yes, you are a good person. Your action speaks louder than words.

Yes, yes ... I know, I know to my skeptics I am saying something contradictory etc ... yawn ...

I think the point is you can legitimately be concerned about crime without dressing up as a super hero who directly tackles crime yourself therefore it possible to be concerned about this and not have to personally taken in a refugee in your home. The reasons should be clear

FWIW this thread and the news has made me act

Of course it's daft- the local problem is that the UK is failing to let refugees into the country in the first place. For individuals to fix that, the fix isn't for them to put them up in their houses (which in any case, isn't an option for a lot of people), since they're not able to get there- we'd need to take up people smuggling.

Or, you know, act against the problem.

Junkyard - lazarus
FWIW this thread and the news has made me act

Ya, just make sure you see the whole thing through (support them, house them, feed them etc) and not dump them onto the society once you are fed up with them.
[b]
[u]People are for life, not an emergency gift to boost self vanity.[/u][/b]

Stick to your words and carry through that with action(support them, house them, feed them etc) until they can gain independece.

Otherwise, remember what I said I see you comiinngg ... let's see if you are man/woman enough.

Northwind - Member

Of course it's daft- the local problem is that the UK is failing to let refugees into the country in the first place.

Knew that was coming hence the previous response that "I bet you are going to blame others now aren't you? Ya, I know ..."

Calm down dear ... let the govt decide/process then allocate them to those that can take care of them. No need to blame or go into hysteria.

1. Come up with a list of those willing people to put up the refugees from Syria.
2. Then assign them (you) responsibilities to take care of them.
3. None of these nonsense about dumping them on taxpayer.
4. No you don't get subsidy / public funds coz someone will inevitably cook the book (i.e. crooks).

🙄

If you don't agree with the rigid policy of the UK government get organised and get out on the streets. It was 2 million for the anti-war protests in the 45mins to WMDs farce, that's 2 million who can at least say "we tried". Try to change Cameron's mind.

If you don't agree with the rigid policy of the UK government get organised and get out on the streets.

[url= http://stopwar.org.uk/events/stop-the-war-events-national/12-september-refugees-are-welcome-here-national-day-of-action ]http://stopwar.org.uk/events/stop-the-war-events-national/12-september-refugees-are-welcome-here-national-day-of-action[/url]

See you there.

chewkw - Member

Knew that was coming hence the previous response that "I bet you are going to blame others now aren't you?

No, you're right, the solution is to let a refugee who can't get into this country stay in my home. Maybe by mail, or skype? You really do talk a lot of pish, don't you. Correctly identifying a problem isn't "blaming others", it's just being realistic, instead of demanding the impossible and deriding everything else.

They're our government, and we can't fix this unilaterally as individuals, we have to fix it nationally. The job of the individual is to persuade the government to act. And to convince other people.

Northwind - Member
No, you're right, the solution is to let a refugee who can't get into this country stay in my home. Maybe by mail, or skype? You really do talk a lot of pish, don't you. Correctly identifying a problem isn't "blaming others", it's just being honest.

They're our government, and we can't fix this unilaterally as individuals, we have to fix it nationally. The job of the individual is to persuade the government to act.

Calm down dear ... read my remaining response in previous thread ... (couldn't type fast enough ... )

See if my suggestion makes sense above?

🙄

Not everyone is in the position to offer a refugee a home. It's still possible to do other things to help them out as many people all over UK are doing.

Try to change Cameron's mind.

If dead babies in the water cannot touch that mans heart a few gobby plebs wont either
Using stop the war as an example, considering the war was not stopped, is a unwise.

I think the Poll tax non payment - money seems to be all that matters- is the last protest I recall working and that was direct action

Anyone name any others? - genuine question
Must be something surely

gordimhor - Member

Not everyone is in the position to offer a refugee a home. It's still possible to do other things to help them out as many people all over UK are doing.

Did I just hear an excuse? Did I? 😯

Edukator did it so what's your problem?

Action speaks louder than words then read my response to Junkyard.

😯

You lot stop feeding the troll, chewky has proven time and time again that his presence here is just to feed his own addiction for attention. Just do not reply to him or engage, he will soon get bored. Its basic GCSE forum science.
Other than that there is some admirable sentiment on here. STW gets peppered with arseholes that often make me not want to spend any time here, but then you see a thread like this and realise that a few arseholes do not define the place and actually most stwers are good people.

toys19 - Member
You lot stop feeding the troll, chewky has proven time and time again that his presence here is just to feed his own addiction for attention. Just do not reply to him or engage, he will soon get bored. Its basic GCSE forum science.

My question might cause some unease on some people because they become too emotional without thinking of the long term consequences.

Others can make up their mind about me by reading my responses so I doubt they need you to say something.

Other than that there is some admirable sentiment on here. STW gets peppered with arseholes that often make me not want to spend any time here, but then you see a thread like this and realise that a few arseholes do not define the place and actually most stwers are good people.

Please refrain from calling people a-hole unless you want this thread to be closed and in that case you will loose your propaganda.

Refrain yourself and calm down.

(I am fine with being called whatever but others will give you a good hiding if you step on the wrong toe)

🙄

I think the Poll tax non payment - money seems to be all that matters- is the last protest I recall working and that was direct action

No poll tax. Don't impose your wishes on the people.

You want to help then stick to that but try not to drag others who are already financially incapable to help into your wish.

🙄

What he said over attention troll

Personally I prefer the French method of direct action[ and also our dairy farmers but they were Tory land owners so not demonised]
We have the numbers to hold the bastards to account
Hard to think of anything any govt has changed to pressure tbh

there must be something though

GRUM I mailed you re helping

Junkyard - lazarus

What he said over attention troll

Personally I prefer the French method of direct action[ and also our dairy farmers but they were Tory land owners so not demonised]
We have the numbers to hold the bastards to account

Oh no you don't ... your numbers are just less than 1% of the entire UK population. (i.e. based on the petition signed on this or other thread).

This is a democratic country Not a commy state and we do not have Politburo.

There's an easier way toys 😀

[img] [/img]

Darcy? What are you doing reading my posts, you blocked me ages ago didn't you?
I found the blocker thing made my browser hang, is it improved any? Where is it?

you blocked me ages ago didn't you?

I did no such thing you eejit!

Trying to remember how I found it again...I'll tell you if you promise not to use it on me. 😛

[quote=toys19 said]Darcy? What are you doing reading my posts, you blocked me ages ago didn't you?
I found the blocker thing made my browser hang, is it improved any? Where is it?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/singletrack-world-forum-e/cpgdlmbifgbhcoigdoeoooakijdionop?hl=en-GB

Careful, I wrote some of it 🙂

La France ne peut accueillir toute la misère du monde - mais elle doit savoir en prendre fidèlement sa part.

France can't welcome all the misery of the world - but she must accept her fair share.

Michel Rocard said that back in 1989. No country or even continent can open the doors to every prospective economic migrant but each country should take its fair share of genuine refugees. It's really easy for the UK which is an island as candidates can be vetted before being let in.

deadlydarcy - Member

There's an easier way toys

Ohhh ... Block User ... nassttyy ... 😯

Oh well ... that's the end of lively debate.

(in the meantime try to find Block User function not that I want to block someone ... 😆 )

Why europe when these guys are rich and culpable

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/06/us-europe-migrants-gulf-idUSKCN0R60H620150906

M. Rocard avait raison Mr Rocard was right.

oh blocker enabled, that feels good.
I meant to hassle our local MP Ben Bradshaw about this (migrants) when I saw him in the pub the night. But I was pissed and couldn't elucidate, he gave up on me..

oh blocker enabled,

Where ?

you download it from the previous link and then add posters you want to block and can do things like this

[quote=DrJ opined]oh blocker enabled,
Where ?

and this [ a signature BTW]

thanks aracer and toys it works great

No more culpable than any of the European countries which have intervened in the area militarily, wicki. Which is most of them. But I agree that its the poorest Arab states that appear to be doing the most.

The thread might run more smoothly if we refer to those fleeing probable death as "refugees" and those seeking a better life in another country as migrants.

Bringing this back to Calais, if British people consider Syrians as proper refugees they are prepared to welcome then a reception center for them could be set up in Calais. Vetting by a committee including Syrians to sort out those from other countries claiming to be Syrian.

Hmm ... is it worth switching to Chrome to avoid chewy's drivel ?

French news (TF1) is currently covering the coalition military effort against Daesh in the region. It's costing about 1 million euros a day, 8000 missions have been flown in the last year, and the impact on Daesh has been negligible.

The issue with economic migrants leaving as soon as they get a bit of money and education is that severely impedes the developing countries from which they came.

However, seeing as the vast majority of refugees getting to Europe are men, could the same not be said for them as well? It sounds heartless - and well...it is. But isn't the better thing to do to train and arm them and then send them back? You can't deal with an issue by running from it, countries like Syria and Iraq need their people to stand strong.

Europe is where it is now because we spilled blood for what we believe in. We didn't all run off to the USA as soon as the Napoleonic and World Wars broke out - we fought and millions of young men died in a process that eventually brought about the creation of the EU.

History tells refugees to run or perish. For example [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_France ]the Armenians[/url].

In response to your edit: these people are mainly fleeing persecution within their own country, not a war with another country. Europeans did flee to the US in all of the wars and civil wars in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. Some ended up fighting in the American civil war.

[quote=DrJ opined]Hmm ... is it worth switching to Chrome to avoid chewy's drivel ?

YES

thanks aracer and toys it works great

History tell refugees to run or perish. For example the Armenians

I am not so sure that is the case now though, some use war as a means to justify economic migration...eg this chaps journey to get to Sweden. Not just to find somewhere that is free from bullets.

I think the context is utterly different.

At the end of the day Syria needs to be stabilized and if there aren't enough men willing to fight then it will never happen.

In response to your edit: these people are mainly fleeing persecution within their own country, not a war with another country.

Persecution by a small minority - Daesh. They hit well above their weight because the opposition doesn't have the will to fight.

Europeans did flee to the US in all of the wars and civil wars in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. Some ended up fighting in the American civil war.

Not to the same extent that we are seeing now.

They hit well above their weight because they are mentalists and they are prepared to die for their cause and fight very dirty in the process

ist one thing fighting in a war its another fearing your wife will be raped and your kids made sex slaves

Most people - without very good weaponry - will just run myself included.

thanks aracer and toys it works great

A very interesting vid, Tom.

I saw a programme on German TV bout the conditions in Syria today. The state of the agricultural areas (drought), the towns (deserted, little left standing) and cities (a lack of everything). That guy doesn't appreciate how lucky he is and should be parachuted back in for making that video.

ist one thing fighting in a war its another fearing your wife will be raped and your kids made sex slave

That has happened in all wars, the tactics deployed by ISIS are not new.

I saw a programme on German TV bout the conditions in Syria today. The state of the agricultural areas (drought), the towns (deserted, little left standing) and cities (a lack of everything). That guy doesn't appreciate how lucky he is and should be parachuted back in for making that video.

Then lets do what we didn't have the bollocks to do a few years ago. Let's bring them here, treat them well, give them food, give them agricultural tools and train and arm them to the teeth and send them back. Conscript them into a European equivalent of the Foreign Legion? Give them the tools to forge a better destiny for the region?

Sure that guys life is way better than those of the people left in Syria, but he states he left Turkey and Greece because they cannot offer him the work and money that he wants. He wants a better life than the Greek people, not just less bombs.

I take issue with that a little, considering the plight of his countrymen and considering many Greeks want to stay and create a better future for Greece.

DrJ - Member

Hmm ... is it worth switching to Chrome to avoid chewy's drivel ?

I find it remarkably easy to ignore Chewwy's posts, I don't need any blocker to do that, the real problem imo has been identified by Toys :

You lot stop feeding the troll, chewky has proven time and time again that his presence here is just to feed his own addiction for attention. Just do not reply to him or engage, he will soon get bored. Its basic GCSE forum science.

It's people's response that buggers up threads imo, not Chewwy's drivel.

I remember a blocking battle on BM. It just resulted in lots of quoting so everyone would see.

I do wonder what's happened to all the women left behind as the male population has fled. Are they still in the camps in Jordan and the Lebanon? I haven't seen footage from those camps on TV in ages.

the tactics deployed by ISIS are not new.

Not exactly what the Nazis did when they occupied france now was it
Nor napeloen etc

I think ISIS are "badder" than most in this respect but yes all war involves bad things being done.
thanks aracer and toys it works great

Not exactly what the Nazis did when they occupied france now was it
Nor napeloen etc

It is exactly what they did in Russia. It's exactly what the Russians did in Germany.

Etc etc ad nauseum. The fact that ISIS has made so much headway says less about them and the lack of professionalism and drive found in most middle eastern military forces.

Saying Syria needs to be stabilised is saying Syria's current boundaries are logical and valid. The region is divided up by mainly straight lines with little respect for geography, culture, religion, ethnicity, language or any objective reason.

Nationalism is central to many conflicts even if the "nation" is just a group of people faithful to a leader, religion or whatever. If there is an answer it has to involve more than just Syria as drawn on the map before the current conflict.

yes it is exactly like that 😕

thanks aracer and toys it works great